Author Topic: a Chinese man's case and situation of all the POISers undergoing desenz in China  (Read 2006 times)

Muon

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What doctor helped you and the other poisers in China? Can we add that doctor to the doctor’s list? Any contact info available?

Lihua

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    • a Chinese man's case and situation of all the POISers undergoing desenz in China
What doctor helped you and the other poisers in China? Can we add that doctor to the doctor’s list? Any contact info available?
it has already been added to the doctor's list, thank you Muon.
A Chinese man undergoing desenz from 2021.8 to 2022.2, it became worse from 1.5 to 4.5 days, do not know it is spontaneous deterioration or by desenz. Believe POIS is a kind of immune diseases. My case:https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4104.0

Lihua

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    • a Chinese man's case and situation of all the POISers undergoing desenz in China
the rest of the China POISers give up desenz because it doesn't help. 6 men did the desenz and only 1 man benefit from it.
A Chinese man undergoing desenz from 2021.8 to 2022.2, it became worse from 1.5 to 4.5 days, do not know it is spontaneous deterioration or by desenz. Believe POIS is a kind of immune diseases. My case:https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4104.0

Quantum

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the rest of the China POISers give up desenz because it doesn't help. 6 men did the desenz and only 1 man benefit from it.
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Thanks for this update, Lihua.
For the 10 years or so that Dr. Waldinger had used it, I did not hear of many cases where some relief happened, and even when there was some relief, it looked like 25% to 30% only.  Not surprising, then that Dr.Waldinger, in his last POIS review article in 2016, announced that he had stopped experimenting with desenzitisation with own sperm, and started to refer to POIS as an auto-immune disorder, rather than as a possible allergy to sperm.   

In my opinion, POIS research has to move away from the desenzitisation path, which is no more a promising avenue to explore.  New ideas and new approaches are needed, now.
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Lihua

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    • a Chinese man's case and situation of all the POISers undergoing desenz in China
the rest of the China POISers give up desenz because it doesn't help. 6 men did the desenz and only 1 man benefit from it.
.
Thanks for this update, Lihua.
For the 10 years or so that Dr. Waldinger had used it, I did not hear of many cases where some relief happened, and even when there was some relief, it looked like 25% to 30% only.  Not surprising, then that Dr.Waldinger, in his last POIS review article in 2016, announced that he had stopped experimenting with desenzitisation with own sperm, and started to refer to POIS as an auto-immune disorder, rather than as a possible allergy to sperm.   

In my opinion, POIS research has to move away from the desenzitisation path, which is no more a promising avenue to explore.  New ideas and new approaches are needed, now.
I think allergy is the subset of POIS-----you can see lots of thread that desenz or antihistamine help POIS.....
A Chinese man undergoing desenz from 2021.8 to 2022.2, it became worse from 1.5 to 4.5 days, do not know it is spontaneous deterioration or by desenz. Believe POIS is a kind of immune diseases. My case:https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4104.0

Lihua

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    • a Chinese man's case and situation of all the POISers undergoing desenz in China
I have hyperlipidemia. The diet regulation failed for two months. Now I start taking atorvastatin. I read the literature on the Internet that hyperlipidemia can cause inflammation. I am 22 years old, 180cm, 75kg, muscular, without too much fat and normal appearance. I am surprised that I have hyperlipidemia. I suspect it may be related to POIS. I will report the results of taking lipid-lowering drugs in a month.
A Chinese man undergoing desenz from 2021.8 to 2022.2, it became worse from 1.5 to 4.5 days, do not know it is spontaneous deterioration or by desenz. Believe POIS is a kind of immune diseases. My case:https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4104.0

Progecitor

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I have hyperlipidemia. The diet regulation failed for two months. Now I start taking atorvastatin. I read the literature on the Internet that hyperlipidemia can cause inflammation. I am 22 years old, 180cm, 75kg, muscular, without too much fat and normal appearance. I am surprised that I have hyperlipidemia. I suspect it may be related to POIS. I will report the results of taking lipid-lowering drugs in a month.

You may need to be aware that some members connected their POIS development to statins.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2192.0

Statins can also induce skeletal muscle toxicity, however concomitant intake of quercetin may ameliorate this.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2192.msg42407#msg42407

You may be also interested to check out PPARA (PPARalpha) agonists as they increase fatty acid oxidation. One classic example is niacinamide.
I believe the metabolic syndrome model laid out in Figure 6 actually applies to my case even though I am neither obese or diabetic.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-08899-7

Lihua

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    • a Chinese man's case and situation of all the POISers undergoing desenz in China
I have hyperlipidemia. The diet regulation failed for two months. Now I start taking atorvastatin. I read the literature on the Internet that hyperlipidemia can cause inflammation. I am 22 years old, 180cm, 75kg, muscular, without too much fat and normal appearance. I am surprised that I have hyperlipidemia. I suspect it may be related to POIS. I will report the results of taking lipid-lowering drugs in a month.

You may need to be aware that some members connected their POIS development to statins.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2192.0

Statins can also induce skeletal muscle toxicity, however concomitant intake of quercetin may ameliorate this.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2192.msg42407#msg42407

You may be also interested to check out PPARA (PPARalpha) agonists as they increase fatty acid oxidation. One classic example is niacinamide.
I believe the metabolic syndrome model laid out in Figure 6 actually applies to my case even though I am neither obese or diabetic.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-08899-7
For a whole month, I only ate a small amount of meat and two eggs a day. As a result, my blood lipid was higher.
A Chinese man undergoing desenz from 2021.8 to 2022.2, it became worse from 1.5 to 4.5 days, do not know it is spontaneous deterioration or by desenz. Believe POIS is a kind of immune diseases. My case:https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4104.0

not_enot

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Lihua, did you take antibiotics, change your sexual partner, change your place of residence, take medications shortly before the start of the first POIS?

Did you just drink Coke and get nervous a lot?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 08:59:56 PM by not_enot »

Lihua

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    • a Chinese man's case and situation of all the POISers undergoing desenz in China
No, but I am taking vitamins zinc selenium SAME fish oil and other kind of things. I recently ejaculated once, and the symptoms have been reduced by 50%, and the duration has been reduced from six days to four days. But this is only one time.
A Chinese man undergoing desenz from 2021.8 to 2022.2, it became worse from 1.5 to 4.5 days, do not know it is spontaneous deterioration or by desenz. Believe POIS is a kind of immune diseases. My case:https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4104.0

not_enot

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Hmm, it's important - zinc, selenium. Did you drink only these elements before the start of the first POIS? Or is there a complex of additives? How long have you been drinking them?

I have heard that not everyone and not always can drink zinc outside of the complex with other minerals.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 05:46:51 AM by not_enot »

Lihua

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    • a Chinese man's case and situation of all the POISers undergoing desenz in China
Hmm, it's important - zinc, selenium. Did you drink only these elements before the start of the first POIS? Or is there a complex of additives? How long have you been drinking them?

I have heard that not everyone and not always can drink zinc outside of the complex with other minerals.
a lot, it is hard for me to list all of them..........
A Chinese man undergoing desenz from 2021.8 to 2022.2, it became worse from 1.5 to 4.5 days, do not know it is spontaneous deterioration or by desenz. Believe POIS is a kind of immune diseases. My case:https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4104.0

not_enot

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Thanks for answer!

I read that if you overdo it with any one mineral, the body may fail. The same zinc outside the complex and so on.

not_enot

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It may be useful for you to take tests: amino acids in blood and urine (the widest list), vitamin B3 (niacin and nicotinamide), and, if available, tests for metabolites of tryptophan, serotonin and catecholamines (urine, It is better to do the daily urine, 24h) (!!!), advanced urine analysis for organic acids.

All this in one day. It is better to take it in a state of POIS and in a completely healthy state (twice, the same).

It all needs to be handed over in one day.

These tests can be informative for correcting your diet and other disorders.

Do not take any supplements/tablets for 5-7 days. Even longer is better.

If you do it, post it here.
__________________________________________

You can also do: fadiatop IgE (!), eosinophilic cationic protein (!), prolactin (!), testosterone, estradiol, TNF-a.
Calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, chlorine, phosphorus in the blood and daily urine. Zinc, copper, selenium in blood and urine.

Check the prolactin necessarily. Low testosterone may be because of this.

Steroid profile in saliva (as many hormones as possible).

Progecitor

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Hi Lihua!

I think it could be a good idea to check out some Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). Do you have access to TCM? Some of them may act as super cocktails with proven health benefits. These are some examples I could quickly gather.

Chinese herb mixture often acts like a super "cocktail". Here we introduce a herb mixture named ZhenRongDan (ZRD) developed from the classic herb formula Siwu decoction. Siwu decoction usually contains the following four herbs: Radix rehmanniae, Radix Paeoniae alba, Angelica sinensis, and Ligusticum chuanxiong Hort. Siwu decoction is a gold formula widely used for treating gynecological diseases. ZRD is based on Siwu decoction and consists of 17 kinds of medicinal herbs, which has been approved by China Food & Drug Administration as a traditional formula in treating menopausal syndromes. These herb mixtures are composed to tonify the liver and kidney, nourish deficient in organs, and finally balance yin and yang.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/88d6/dad907f609196ab8708ea7df9e90bab5d321.pdf

Numerous researchers have reported the use of phytochemical compounds such as anthraquinone emodin extracts from traditional Chinese medicines (TCM), including Polygonum multiflorum, P Cuspidatum, Rumex patientia, Rhamnus catharticus, Rhamnus orbiculatus, Aloe vera, Acorus tatarinowii, Cassia obtusifolia, Cassia occidentalis, Rheum palmatum, Rheum officinale, Eriocaulon buergerianum, Dendrobium thyrsiflorum, Fibraurea tinctoria, Coptis chinensis, Scutellaria baicalensis, Isatis indigotica, and Rumex chalepensis.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211802012000241

The traditional Chinese medicine Yinhuang oral liquid also has significant inhibitory activity against AChE. Zhang et al. identified the following potent AChEIs in Yinhuang oral liquid by using high-performance liquid chromatography-electrospray ionization mass spectrometry (ESI-MS): chlorogenic acid, cryptorchidic acid, baicalin, baicalein, etc.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Xin-Cao-11/publication/337748759_Progress_in_Target_Drug_Molecules_for_Alzheimer%27s_Disease/links/5ef1dc7192851ce9e7fce0f0/Progress-in-Target-Drug-Molecules-for-Alzheimers-Disease.pdf

Angelica sinensis
Dong quai (Angelica sinensis root) has been used in Chinese traditional medicine for thousands of years for various female health conditions (e.g., dysmenorrhea, pelvic pain, symptoms of menopause).
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s40203-015-0008-z

TCM indicated to be able to change senescence.
- HTERT inhibitors: Ginger (6-paradol, 6-shogaol), Pterostilbene, S. baicalensis (Baicalin, baicalein),  Triptolide (Tripterygium wilfordii), Paclitaxel, Papaverine (Papaverine somnifrum), Harmine (Peganum harmala L. and Banisteriopsis caapi), Tianshengyuan-1 (mangnolia officinalis, schisandra Chinensis, pericarpium citri reticulatae viride and almond) - can both induce and inhibit hTERT, 
- DNA damage induced cell senescence: Icaritin (Epimedium brevicornu Maxim. (Berberidaceae)), Berberine, Hinokitiol (Calocedrus formosana heartwood), Acetyl-11-keto-b-boswellic acid (Boswellia serrata), gallotannin (green tea), Curcumin
- oncogene-induced senescence: Chansu (bufalin from skin of giant toads), Baicalin, Avenanthramide A (Avena sativa L.), punicalagin (pomegranate), Marchantin C (liverworts Marchantia polymorpha)
- others: 1, 8-cineole (eucalyptus essential oil), Artemisinin, Gypenoside L (Jiaogulan), Magnolin (Magnolia fargesii)
Also: Germ cells and hematopoietic stem cells can express certain levels of telomerase activity, and telomerase inhibitors may have adverse effects on these tissues. Chronic senescence-induced inflammation can lead to systemic immunosuppression.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/cpr.12894

The dried, immature fruit of Citrus aurantium L., 'Zhiqiao' in Chinese, has been used to treat cardiovascular diseases in traditional Chinese medicine for centuries. Naringenin and hesperetin and their glycosides present in considerable amounts (about 10?15%) in the herb.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ptr.2504

In Traditional Chinese Medicine, two species of yam (D. opposita and D. hypoglauca) were used for some of these conditions, and for asthma and urinary tract problems. Wild yam is occasionally recommended as a treatment for biliary colic, irritable bowel syndrome, diverticulitis, and intestinal inflammation/spasm.
https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/J157v03n04_08

Acori Tatarinowii Rhizoma (ATR, the dried rhizome of Acorus tatarinowii Schott) has been one of the most important traditional herbal medicines in China for thousands of years. The application of ATR is used for the treatment of neurological disorders, acting on regaining consciousness, tranquilizing the mind, eliminating dampness, and invigorating the circulation of blood. It is reported that the extracts of ATR enhance neurogenesis and neuroprotection in both animal and clinical studies.
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2020/4845028/

Salvianolic acid B (SalB) the most abundant and bioactive member of polyphenolic compounds derived from the root of Salvia miltiorrhiza (Danshen) and has been used widely and successfully in Traditional Chinese Medicine clinical practices for cardio-cerebral vascular diseases. Earlier studies have reported that SalB significantly decreases triglyceride and free fatty acid levels, increases serum SOD (a scavenger of free radicals) ability and decreases MDA (a by-product of lipid peroxidation) level, which reveal its potential anti-oxidative properties in vivo.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2018.00671/full

Chinese Skullcap (Scutellaria baicalensis Georgi), which is part of the 50 fundamental herbs of Traditional Chinese Medicine, has been extensively used in the several East Asian countries to treat pyrexia, micturition disorder and inflammation. Taken together, we propose that Chinese Skullcap root extract (SRE) suppresses abnormal androgen events in prostate tissue and inhibits the development of BPH by targeting inflammation- and apoptosis-related markers. These finding strengthens that SRE could be used as plant-based 5a-reductase inhibitory alternative.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378874118337929

The anti-inflammatory, immunomodulatory, antioxidant, and antibacterial activities of Triphala are similar to those of other herbal formulas clinically proven to treat allergic rhinitis effectively, such as Shi-Bi-Lin (a Chinese herbal formula), butterbur, and Nigella sativa (black caraway or black cumin).
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=pharmacological+benefits+of+triphala+a+perspective+for+allergic+rhinitis&btnG=

Bakumondo-to, a traditional Chinese medicinal pre-scription consisting of 6 herbs (Ophiopogonis tuber, Pinelliae tuber, Zizyphi fructus, Glycyrrhizae radix, Ginseng radix, and Oryzae fructus), has been used for the treatment of bronchitis and pharyngitis accompanying severe dry cough. Bakumondo-to has no effect in normal animals, while it showed significant antitussive actions in bronchitic animals.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1347861319343130

A traditional Chinese medicine formula, Youdujing (YDJ) ointment, is widely used for treatment of human papilloma virus-related diseases, such as cervical cancer. The YDJ ointment consists of three herbs, Brucea javanica (L.) Merr., Curcuma phaeocaulis val., and Arnebia euchroma.
https://journal.hep.com.cn/qb/EN/10.15302/J-QB-021-0236

It is clear that currently very few species of edible mushrooms have been examined for the presence of ecdysteroids and ecdysteroid-related compounds. The most extensively studies species is Polyporus umbellatus, which is not only edible but it is used extensively in traditional Chinese, Japanese and Indian medicines, primarily to treat oedema and as a diuretic, but also for other conditions and without toxicity or side-effects.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Nilufar-Mamadalieva/publication/343541713_Dietary_Phytoecdysteroids/links/5f30544fa6fdcccc43bb289a/Dietary-Phytoecdysteroids.pdf

Carnosol was extracted from Chinese medicine Rosmarinus officinalis.
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/advpub/0/advpub_b12-00325/_article/-char/ja/

Daiken-chu-tou, a chinese herbal medicine has been traditionally used for improvement of bowel conditions. In basic research, dai-ken-chu-tou has been reported to influence intestinal tracts by decreasing adrenomeduline and decreasing the stimulation of the pathway of TRPV1 and TRPA1, which are also important pathways with bladder function.
https://www.auajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1016/j.juro.2017.02.776

The mangosteen fruit has a long history of medicinal use in Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine. For centuries, people in Southeast Asia have used dried mangosteen pericarp for medicinal purposes; it is used as an antiseptic, an anti-inflammatory, an anti-parasitic, an antipyretic, an analgesic, and as a treatment for skin rashes.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1741-7015-9-69