Author Topic: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?  (Read 44798 times)

demografx

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2012, 10:53:11 AM »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #76 on: November 19, 2012, 01:54:33 AM »

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« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 10:29:03 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2012, 04:00:55 PM »

Our POIS Medical Research Funding Progress!


10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #78 on: December 12, 2012, 08:47:58 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 10:30:33 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

FloppyBanana

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2013, 04:48:50 AM »
I found this comment interesting when I was eating about vasectomy:

"Because sperm contain only half the chromosomes of the body?s cells the immune system thinks they are foreign invaders and quickly walls them off, creating a firm nodule of tissue at the end of the vas."

https://onemoresoul.com/news-commentary/vasectomy-safe-and-simple.html

The article quite anti-vasetcomy.
FB
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.

Daveman

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #80 on: November 11, 2013, 06:48:46 AM »
I found this comment interesting when I was eating about vasectomy:

"Because sperm contain only half the chromosomes of the body?s cells the immune system thinks they are foreign invaders and quickly walls them off, creating a firm nodule of tissue at the end of the vas."

https://onemoresoul.com/news-commentary/vasectomy-safe-and-simple.html

The article quite anti-vasetcomy.
FB

My opinion is that my POIS is a result of a long term vasectomy (20+ years) followed by a reversal. My POIS came
about 5 yrs after the reversal.

My urologist told me that a large percent of individuals with vasectomies have antibodies to sperm.
Generally, vasectomies are considered safe, because there is still a blood barrier. The antibodies do enter the bloodstream,
but sperm does not.

IF sperm enters the bloodstream, there is a BIG problem. However, this is not normally the case.

The urologist however indicated that longer term vasectomies really mess up the very fine tissues within the testicles. Sperm are attacked
by the antibodies. So he said that most reversals, especially with time, are not successful because the sperm are attacked and destroyed
before the can "be used".

Eventually, damage can be enough, especially if a reversal is done, and other tissues are exposed to the auto-immune battle. Injuries can be
caused which eventually expose the sperm to the bloodstream.

This is not far off of what Dr. Waldinger has said, BUT is in no way and allergy! It is auto-immune. THE TREATMENTS ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.
AND worse, desens may even create a similar problem that might not have originally existed. If for instance POIS were something else all together.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

poiseidon

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #81 on: November 11, 2013, 01:59:11 PM »
i don't know how to take this but i found it typing sperm and bloodstream on g.

it's about a guy injecting his own semen for no apparent reason experimenting some symptoms that seem to be assimilated to pois.

www.ehelp.com/questions/10437550/what-is-the-long-term-effect-of-injecting-my-own-sperm-into-my-blood-sream
 
i have injected 20 cc of my own sperm into my arm (blood stream) while it was still white and warm (I have done this 3 or 4 times). What will this do to me long term. The first time I did this it was a real head rush, and I felt I was going to pass out. Somehow, I had a strange taste in my mouth. I noticed the last time I must have shot more than 20 cc and I got really cold, and had to take a hot shower to get through it. I felt weak and was not able to walk striaght, felt really sick, and was shivering. Extra question, does sperm have stem cells, that can rebiuld brain cells??

« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 02:10:35 PM by poiseidon »
After spending loads on supplements I found out that the only thing that works is abstinence. Full stop. And it's free.
Meditation if done correctly is great too.
Also avoiding computers produce faster recoveries and fewer temptations.

poiseidon

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #82 on: November 11, 2013, 02:04:18 PM »
i mean this guy is clearly an idiot. but given he's saying the truth, it confirms my feeling that the answer has to be related to some sort of leak in the bloodstream. the bigger the worse.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 02:11:56 PM by poiseidon »
After spending loads on supplements I found out that the only thing that works is abstinence. Full stop. And it's free.
Meditation if done correctly is great too.
Also avoiding computers produce faster recoveries and fewer temptations.

Egordon

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #83 on: November 20, 2013, 01:15:50 PM »
It's funny, the one thing i've learned from this site is how little we know about the disorder and how foolish it is to be dismissive of ideas regarding it.

Initially, people were very dismissive of people who suggested there was some link between POIS and excessive masturbation. Now, it seems entirely plausible (even to the most skeptical) that such activity could cause harm to the vessels carrying semen, and would cause semen to leak across the barrier -- resulting in the formation of anti-semen antibodies.

Also, people currently seem convinced (by what, i don't know) that trained immunologists are undertaking the incorrect treatment when administering injections to decrease immune response -- notwithstanding some evidence (including first-hand knowledge on the part of several members) that such treatment is incredibly effective.

I do wonder how we will look back upon many of our ironclad theories in 5-10 years.
POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!

Daveman

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #84 on: November 20, 2013, 02:44:30 PM »

Also, people currently seem convinced (by what, i don't know) that trained immunologists are undertaking the incorrect treatment when administering injections to decrease immune response -- notwithstanding some evidence (including first-hand knowledge on the part of several members) that such treatment is incredibly effective.


Trained immunologists ALWAYS test for positive reactions to an allergen before desensitizing to it. Why? Just to avoid over-sensitization? NO
They don't want to expose your system to something that doesn't presently cause allergies, potentially creating a problem that didn't originally exist.

That can't be done with POIS. There isn't a developed and proven procedure for testing semen allergy.

There are tests that can detect allergic reactions perhaps (aside from the whelt that the injections leave), but these are not double blind tested.
Will a non-poiser show a positive reaction? It isn't pollen. It's a foreign body that shouldn't be in the bloodstream.

Perhaps the trained immunologists are taking "the doctors' " word for it.

I'm not taking the risk.

One of our members may have suffered irreversible damage from excessive B6 intake. That was a risk that was known. At the time he took the B6 he thought it was
worth the risk. Now, he's thinking differently.

I'm not going to do desens until research proves it's effective and safe.

As I said. You and I can both say we have our cures. Doesn't mean they work for everyone, and the risks should be taken seriously.



WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

Egordon

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2013, 07:19:42 PM »

Perhaps the trained immunologists are taking "the doctors' " word for it.

I'm not taking the risk.

I'm not going to do desens until research proves it's effective and safe.


My doctors certainly are not, as i've made sure to ask them about the potential risks. But you absolutely have the option of waiting-it-out; i've never tried to keep you from doing so. I hope that such research emerges in our lifetimes (-- although, given the pace of POIS research, i'm certainly not holding my breath).

My problem isn't with the decision to refuse consultations with physicians and wait for "definitive" research. It's with the fact that the decision to wait has been construed as the only sensible one -- even for members whose symptoms are so severe that they are incapable of pursuing a career capable of generating a sustainable income.  

There's no evidence that desens is harmful. So telling someone whose life (and potential happiness) is currently crippled by POIS doesn't seem an especially sensible decision to me.


One of our members may have suffered irreversible damage from excessive B6 intake. That was a risk that was known. At the time he took the B6 he thought it was
worth the risk. Now, he's thinking differently.

Clearly you realize that this situation is not analogous to a treatment undertaken by physicians who have specialized in this field.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 06:12:14 AM by Daveman »
POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!

Daveman

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #86 on: November 21, 2013, 06:09:21 AM »


One of our members may have suffered irreversible damage from excessive B6 intake. That was a risk that was known. At the time he took the B6 he thought it was
worth the risk. Now, he's thinking differently.

Clearly you realize that this situation is not analogous to a treatment undertaken by physicians who have specialized in this field.

Whether its analogous or not, I hesitate to say... but it is certainly pertinent.

Especially in light of this conversation:


It's with the fact that the decision to wait has been construed as the only sensible one -- even for members whose symptoms are so severe that they are incapable of pursuing a career capable of generating a sustainable income.

You make it sound as though I WANT people to suffer! You clearly don't understand the potential risks involved. Even though they may be 1 in 1000, we could even say 1 in 200, so little testing has been done and over such a short period of time.

It is preferable in my opinion that we wait "just a little longer", and believe me I understand what POIS is and how awful it feels, than to potentially expose someone to an irreversible nightmare later.

Not to mention that for several who have undergone desens treatments with trained professionals, it has meant just about non-stop POIS for more than a year.

I know that someone who is suffering POIS will want to do anything that he thinks will give him a chance to be rid of POIS. They say, "I don't care what the risks are"... until
they end up being one of the ones who suffers irreversible damage.

Maybe he should try niacin or viagra first. I can say, that it has rid me of my POIS. Wouldn't it be better to try something like that, which doesn't take a year and a half of suffering to find out if it really works for him? Try it for 4 weeks, making sure that the procedures are properly applied, and then if that doesn't work, we should know who and what the research program will be.

What if we are surprised by the program? And there could be ANY number of surprises to come.


WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

Going less Crazy

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #87 on: December 30, 2013, 08:32:51 PM »
Just putting in my 2 cents.  For me, this "desensitization to sperm" idea just lacks a lot of backing.  Yesterday, I almost "O'd" (felt a "tiny bit" of orgasm), but did not have any sperm ejaculate, but had POIS because of it.  This tells me it is something released in your brain, or by your body that goes to your brain, that causes POIS.  Again, by POIS I mean my POIS because you all are different.  But it just doesn't make any sense to me to feel this way because of the sperm I've had most of my life that I never had an allergy to for the most part.  I feel like my POIS started possibly by the release/development of an antibody, or something in my brain and whenever I have an orgasm, it is attacked by this specific antibody.  I really don't believe POIS, as in my POIS, is caused directly by sperm.  Ok GLC shut up and wait for the research.
My POIS managed with modified Paleo Diet (@ diet that 100% manages my pois)Believe my POIS stems from inflammation in the gut. O and stimulation = neuro POIS from inflammation from the gut.

I take <1/4 drop of a 10mg liquid Zyrtec gelcap every night and it has vastly improved my sleep and energy.

demografx

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #88 on: December 30, 2013, 08:59:43 PM »
Thanks, GLC!  :)

You make a lot of sense.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 11:01:55 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Andy451

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2014, 10:27:38 PM »
I have done Desense. I can be harmful. I had to see for myself what was what.

It wkd toward the middle, to an extent.. and then made things more severe beyond 1/1000 dilution. I went all the way down to 1/600 which felt like a severe POIS episode and then stopped...

More than anything I gained a piece of mind knowing that I was not harming my body with my mind or sex. It was my body attacking itself by whatever means POIS actually does manifest. My arm would swell up in the localized area of the shots in the Drs. office. I would have something that looked akin to a bee-sting. I believe there is an immunological component here, but the why or the how I think is not necessarily answered by shooting semen into our arms.

I would not recommend doing this treatment until more research is done on everything POIS. If you do it just to see that it is not you at lower dilutions you will probably not hurt yourself (1/80k)..

Let's stick with the current research for now; and if it doesn't pan out we can hypothesize some more. But this one needs more solid evidence and research to prove as a viable option. Immunology can be voodoo in the med-science world sometimes w/ unknown dependent and independent variables.

The more guys we find w/ POIS the better we can test all hypothesis. Get the word out there. I tell family and friends now- because they must know the hell that this is, and that it is real...
28 yo M- POIS for 16yrs (since age 12). Chronic POIS- always there

Tried desensitization for 1.5yrs & was unsuccessful (POIS worse at 1/1000)

 Exercising- (running/light weights/situps/yoga) Ice my perineum. Gluten-free. Supplements- limited success.Meds- Oxcarbazepine/Buspar (past-Depakote10yrs)