Neem

[Starsky]

Nathan wrote today on NSF

It seems my POIS is cured..  Almost 90% of the symptoms gone in just two months of medicine.   

As I posted in my previous post, my doctor has suspected muscle weakness and prescribed Homeopathic medicines. But this not work for me.  and I found that POIS is not due to muscle weakness and I stop this medicine.  then I started for searching effective medicine for allergy.

By god's grace, my friend suggested me to take Neem Capsules daily one after wakeup.  I took this for two months and my POIS symptoms started declining.    Now even I had two or three o in a day.  I will be affected for very mild POIS symptoms say only 10% of earlier.   Hopefully to clear this 10% in some time by continuing neem capsules.

Further, this result is constant from the last one month and I followed two weeks rule here.

Also see the benefits of Neem power capsule for allergy.
thanks to god once. 

The reason could be the properties of Neem:

eem may become the first truly effective birth control "pill" for men (Riar, 1988).  Neem leaf tablets ingested for one month produced reversible male antifertility without affecting sperm production or libido (Deshpande, 1980) (Sadre, 1984).  In India and the United States, exploratory trials show neem extracts reduced fertility in male monkeys without inhibiting libido or sperm production (Sharma, et al, 1987).

In a test of neem's birth control effects with members of the Indian Army, daily oral doses of several drops of neem seed oil in gelatin capsules were given to twenty married soldiers. The effect took six weeks to become 100 percent effective, it remained effective during the entire year of the trial and was reversed six weeks after the subjects stopped taking the capsules. During this time the men experienced no adverse side effects and retained their normal capabilities and desires. (Vietmeyer, 1992) There were no pregnancies of any of the wives during the period of the study.

For long term birth control for men it appears that a very minute amount of neem oil injected in the vas deferens provides up to eight months of birth control. The tests revealed no obstructions, no change in testosterone production and no anti-sperm antibodies. The local lymph nodes showed increased ability to respond to infections indicating an immune response may be responsible for the birth control effect in men as it is in women. (Upadhyay, 1993)

There are some studies that show that neem bark extract and neem seed oil caused arrest of spermatogenesis within 2 months, with a decrease in the number of Leydig cells (responsible for the manufacturing of testosterone) (Randhawa 1996

[LAPOISSE]

That sounds interesting. Fits very well with the allergy theory ; Could be some component of sperm wich is inhibit by this herb that is implicated in POIS allergy.
Blocking the problem at his source sounds better than try to compensate symptoms in upper level.

I'll try, there is nothing to loose.

Just a question : As I understand, taking a shortcut, Neem decrease the level of testosterone ; Are members who have tried Testosterone therapy trying to do the opposite ?

[Starsky]

There is no information that Neem lowers testosterone levels but it should slow down the spermatogenezis.

[Daveman]

By what mechanism does Neem work as a birth control if sperm production is not affected?

Retro-iejaculation, dry ejaculation?

[Starsky]

Motility reduction or increased absorbtion by epidymis. It is some local increased immunological activity to sperm, not a systemic reaction causing sperm antibodies to develop.

Here are all of the articles:
 Neem references

    Deshpande, VY, KN Mendulkar and NL Sadre (1980) “Male antifertility activity of Azadirachta indica in mice.” Journal of Postgraduate Medicine 26: 167-70.
    Jensen, JT (2002) “Male contraception.” Current Women's Health Reports 2(5): 338-45.
    Lohiya, NK, B Manivannan, PK Mishra and N Pathak (2001) “Vas deferens, a site of male contraception: an overview.” Asian Journal of Andrology 3(2): 87-95.
    National Research Council (1992) Neem: A tree for solving global problems. National Academy Press: Washington, DC.
    Randhawa NS and BS Parmar (eds.) (1996) Neem. New Age International: New Delhi, India.
    Sadre, NL, VY Deshpande, KN Mendulkar and DH Nandal (1983) “Male antifertility activity of Azadirachta indicain different species.” In Schmutterer, H, and KRS Ascher (eds.) Natural pesticides from the neem tree (Azadirachta indica A. Juss) and other tropical plants: Proceedings of the 2nd International Neem Conference. Deutsche Gesellschaft für Technische Zusammenarbeit : Roßdorf, Germany.
    Upadhyay, SN, S Dhawan and GP Talwar (1993) “Antifertility effects of neem (Azadirachta indica) oil in male rats by single intra-vas administration: an alternate approach to vasectomy.” Journal of Andrology 14(4): 275-81.

[Starsky]

J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2003;14(4):387-95.
Azadirachta indica adversely affects sperm parameters and fructose levels in
vas deferens fluid of albino rats.
Ghosesawar MG, Ahamed RN, Ahmed M, Aladakatti RH.
Post-Graduate Department of Zoology, Karnatak University, Dharwad 580 003, India.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPl
us&list_uids=15198309&query_hl=19&itool=pubmed_DocSum
Azadirachta indica treatment for 24 days in albino rats resulted in a decrease in the total sperm
count, sperm motility, and forward velocity in vas deferens fluid. The percentage of abnormal
sperm increased and the fructose content decreased. As diminished levels of fructose parallel
androgen deficiency, we conclude that reduced androgen levels resulting from the antiandrogenic
property of A. indica leaves probably influences the physiological maturation of
sperm.
PMID: 15198309 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Starsky]

Effect of Aqueous Leaf Extract of Neem (Azadirachta indica) on the Hormonal Milieu of Male Rats
Author:
Ekaluo, U. B., Ikpeme, E. V., Udensi, O., Markson, A. A., Madunagu, B. E., Omosun, G. and Umana, E. J.
Abstract:

The effects of aqueous leaf extract of neem on serum testosterone, follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone/interstitial cell stimulating hormone (LH/ICSH), estrogen and prolactin levels in male albino rats were studied. Rats treated with 50, 100 and 150 mg/kg body weight of neem extract intraperitoneally daily for 15 days showed very highly significant (P< 0.001) reduction effects on serum concentration of testosterone, FSH, LH/ICSH and prolactin when compared with their control counterparts. On the other hand, the aqueous leaf extract of neem had a very highly significantly (P<0.001) increasing effect on serum concentration of estradiol. There were dose-dependent effects of the aqueous leaf extract of neem on the serum concentration of the hormones. These observations suggest that the aqueous leaf extract of neem had strong anti-androgenic property and capability to disrupt hormonal functions. Hence, its indiscriminate use in malaria chemotherapy could increase the in risk of infertility in males.

[kurtosis]

Effect of Aqueous Leaf Extract of Neem (Azadirachta indica) on the Hormonal Milieu of Male Rats
Author:
Ekaluo, U. B., Ikpeme, E. V., Udensi, O., Markson, A. A., Madunagu, B. E., Omosun, G. and Umana, E. J.
Abstract:

The effects of aqueous leaf extract of neem on serum testosterone, follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone/interstitial cell stimulating hormone (LH/ICSH), estrogen and prolactin levels in male albino rats were studied. Rats treated with 50, 100 and 150 mg/kg body weight of neem extract intraperitoneally daily for 15 days showed very highly significant (P< 0.001) reduction effects on serum concentration of testosterone, FSH, LH/ICSH and prolactin when compared with their control counterparts. On the other hand, the aqueous leaf extract of neem had a very highly significantly (P<0.001) increasing effect on serum concentration of estradiol. There were dose-dependent effects of the aqueous leaf extract of neem on the serum concentration of the hormones. These observations suggest that the aqueous leaf extract of neem had strong anti-androgenic property and capability to disrupt hormonal functions. Hence, its indiscriminate use in malaria chemotherapy could increase the in risk of infertility in males.

lowering testosterone doesn't seem to be a good idea as it has numerous long term health risks.

[nathan123]

 

After two months of taking Neem capsules, I tested my testernone levels and sperm counnts.  All the levels are normal and there is no decreasing in the Testerone levlels / Sperm counts.  There is one study conducted on Indian soldiers , but there is no decrease in such counts.  So as per my understanding the cure I found because of neem boost immune system and decreases allergy and auto immune disorders.

[kurtosis]

After two months of taking Neem capsules, I tested my testernone levels and sperm counnts.  All the levels are normal and there is no decreasing in the Testerone levlels / Sperm counts.  There is one study conducted on Indian soldiers , but there is no decrease in such counts.  So as per my understanding the cure I found because of neem boost immune system and decreases allergy and auto immune disorders.

That's cool. Ages ago (about 10 years) I was given an Ayurvedic treatment for candida which turned out to have a very small amount of neem in it. Powerful stuff but I only took it for a few days and it definitely worked. Unfortunately the fungus came back a few years later (not conjecture, that's coming from my family doctor who prescribed different fungicides). I didn't notice any POIS effects but perhaps that was because I took it for such a short period of time and ascribed any positive benefits to the anti-fungal effect. Can't remember

I'm presuming you'll continue to have blood tests?

[nathan123]

yes,  this blood test, I done one year back and all my levels came normal.  But after posting NSF and here, someone posted that, neem will increase sperm count and testerone levels.  That's why I tested on the day of post in this blog about its side effect.  But result cames same as earlier one.  I discussed this with my doctor and he told me that there was no documentary proof untill now for saying neem will decrease the above mentioned.  He told only on rats some experiment made and there was no scientific proof for this.

[Vincent M]

This neem stuff sounds promising. I'll try it after I try huperzine.

[kurtosis]

This neem stuff sounds promising. I'll try it after I try huperzine.

I'm finding ginkgo much better that huperzine. Huperzine cannot counteract the POIS reaction we get. It does improve memory somewhat but my experience is that it's short-lived and it does not have the anti-inflammatory properties of ginkgo. Most of the benefit I'm getting is coming from b vitamins and ginkgo. Currently I take a ginkgo, gotu kola and ginseng combination. (Now Ginkgo contains all these ingredients for whatever reason) and I'm finding that very good.

But Neem is cheap and it appears you'd know relatively quickly if it was working for you so it's worth a try.

[kurtosis]

This neem stuff sounds promising. I'll try it after I try huperzine.

I'm finding ginkgo much better that huperzine. Huperzine cannot counteract the POIS reaction we get. It does improve memory somewhat but my experience is that it's short-lived and it does not have the anti-inflammatory properties of ginkgo. Most of the benefit I'm getting is coming from b vitamins and ginkgo. Currently I take a ginkgo, gotu kola and ginseng combination. (Now Ginkgo contains all these ingredients for whatever reason) and I'm finding that very good.

But Neem is cheap and it appears you'd know relatively quickly if it was working for you so it's worth a try.

Forgot about the protein. The more tyrosine the better tyrosine and b vitamins are the key building blocks of catecholamines. It's one of the reasons that research has shown tyrosine supplementation may help deal with the cognitive effects of stress which result from norepinephrine and dopamine depletion. This doesn't mean they magic the stress away, just that tyrosine supplementation can improve reaction times, speed of thought and decisiveness under pressure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1599383

[Starsky]

Its good to take 500mg tyrosine in the morning and 500 mg tryptophan in the afternoon before going to bed.

[Jon]

Has anyone else tried Neem with any success?

[kurtosis]

I had a strange thought about Neem, catecholamine imbalances and immunological problems. They may be related. The parasite toxoplasma gondii is supposed to be quite common and can come from infected cats or eating raw meat. I remember reading an article about it ages ago suggesting that it could be responsible for traffic accidents as it delayed reaction times and there was some correlation between countries that eat undercooked meat and the rate of traffic accidents. Statistics are fun.

Toxoplasmois has been known to cause elevated noradrenaline and low dopamine in some sufferers. They may also show elevated Ig as the body is genuinely fighting an infection.

This may produce cognition problems around an O and other symptoms of an anxiety disorder as toxoplasmosis appears to affect the catecholamine system in acute cases. It's possible.  In my own case, the onset of POIS occurred simultaneously with e-coli poisoning (or so I thought) resulting from eating undercooked meat. Neem appears able to kill it.
I'm starting to understand that supplements like neem and ginkgo have been used in less medically sophisticated times as cure-alls because they provided relief for illnesses that we're not properly diagnosing now. Someone with POIS like complaints in India a few hundred years ago may just have been given neem extract and may have gotten better without ever knowing they could develop POIS. An odd idea perhaps.
It's possible that it's the anti-parasitic effects of Neem that are giving people relief.

What does Neem and garlic have in common? They're potent natural anti-parasitics. 

It's just an idea. I haven't thought very deeply about it but it's always troubled me that I suffered no obvious cognitive problems until the e-coli poisoning in early puberty despite having had O's before then.

[Gabin]

It's just an idea. I haven't thought very deeply about it but it's always troubled me that I suffered no obvious cognitive problems until the e-coli poisoning in early puberty despite having had O's before then.

My POIS started when I was 16 in the following circumstances: it was the end of my high school extremely stressful and strenuous year (not more than 6h of sleep, daily intensive amateur national boxing team trainings, school + university preparations). Right before high school graduation party my dog had a sudden gastric torsion, she was made a surgery but all in vain and after in week spent almost day and night at the vet's she died. It was a serious strike for all family members, I just couldn't bear it, felt like you have an empty hole inside yourself and nothing to fill it with. This was a really psychologically tough expereince.
Don?t know why, but in a pursue to distract myself from erosive thoughts of my dog (school was over, was no need to get up early in the mornings daily) I ended up playing online games (CS) and m-ing after that each day late at night (was playing till 3-4 a.m.) And one day like with others who developed POIS amidst their lifes after an O fell into this lethargic state.
This is a typical introduction story here. I linked my state with O?s instantly since it wasn?t hard to discern an athletic sportsman from a hardly-moving and fogged body. I first thought it was a result of masturbating, training over exhaustion (constant severe dehydratation (I lost 3-4 kilos per training daily)), stress and other factors that led me to the condition.
But as Kurtosis mentioned I also thought about a possibility of parasites. And now looking back at the onset of the symptoms I think there was an above-average probability to get some at the vets (poor hygiene, constant contact with diseased animals).
I googled ?toxoplasmosis semen human? and there were some papers supporting this hypothesis.

[Daveman]

We can't rule anything out of course, but my guess is that it's just coincidence and the real trigger was puberty itself.

It's quite possible that there could always be something that set it over the line like a trigger, but it was in you anyways.

I think we all see that POIS accentuates other chronic ailments, especially inflamation related ones. And the same inflammatory
problems can be felt more strongly in a POIS state.

So I think it is very likely that the first time you put 1 and 1 together is when you have had sex, and the hormones and or neurotransmitters
are borderline, and some inflammatory situation comes along. BANG, you feel it more strongly because of POIS, but blame the "thing" that caused the "pain" as the thing that gave you POIS.

And from then on tend to imagine that it was that stimulus that created the POIS.

It's very difficult to separate the chicken from the egg.

[kurtosis]

We can't rule anything out of course, but my guess is that it's just coincidence and the real trigger was puberty itself.

It's quite possible that there could always be something that set it over the line like a trigger, but it was in you anyways.

I think we all see that POIS accentuates other chronic ailments, especially inflamation related ones. And the same inflammatory
problems can be felt more strongly in a POIS state.

So I think it is very likely that the first time you put 1 and 1 together is when you have had sex, and the hormones and or neurotransmitters
are borderline, and some inflammatory situation comes along. BANG, you feel it more strongly because of POIS, but blame the "thing" that caused the "pain" as the thing that gave you POIS.

And from then on tend to imagine that it was that stimulus that created the POIS.

It's very difficult to separate the chicken from the egg.

Yes I agree. I've been saying how difficult it is to understand the onset of this illness for a while and that's what makes me doubt my own recollection of its onset. It's also true that there are illnesses with a genetic origin that only become symptomatic when there's a period of high stress accompanied by an illness. Viral, digestive etc.
I just wonder sometimes. Wistfully perhaps