Starsky's plan * Discussion

[Starsky]

First I want to apologize that i will not donate this year to NORD to seek the cure. Today I decided to GET THE CURE. I started to search Urologists here in Poland which will help me in the realization of the plan:
-banking my semen
-doing a close-ended vasectomy (cost about 200 US Dollars and no problem in my country with doing this)
-removal of the seminal vescicles
-eventually TURP, but perhaps I wont need them if I will take finasteride

As you can see its a little bit modificated Animus Solution, because no one in Poland is willing to do a orchiectomy on demand and as Animus says it does not help a lot. The two other parts of the plan, I think I must do aborad: I hope I will find someone in Romania or Hungary (you can have there even Kidney transplants from a living donor).

Please help me and say what do you think about it?

[Daveman]

First I want to apologize that i will not donate this year to NORD to seek the cure. Today I decided to GET THE CURE. I started to search Urologists here in Poland which will help me in the realization of the plan:
-banking my semen
-doing a close-ended vasectomy (cost about 200 US Dollars and no problem in my country with doing this)
-removal of the seminal vescicles
-eventually TURP, but perhaps I wont need them if I will take finasteride

As you can see its a little bit modificated Animus Solution, because no one in Poland is willing to do a orchiectomy on demand and as Animus says it does not help a lot. The two other parts of the plan, I think I must do aborad: I hope I will find someone in Romania or Hungary (you can have there even Kidney transplants from a living donor).

Please help me and say what do you think about it?

You are taking a drastic measure and you don’t know that it will work. Can you imagine doing all that and STILL having POIS?

You must understand that we DON’T know the cause of POIS. The doctors will do as you ask, because they don’t really know either. And I am sure they will have all the “t´s” crossed and “dots well placed on the “i´s” of the contract they will have you fill out.

I’m sure Starsky $200 is better spent for a research grant than $2000 (more?) in surgery that probably won’t work.

Of course it is your decision. All the best of luck. A BIG price to pay, even if it DOES work. With research we can find a cure that doesn’t have such drastic effects.

[Starsky]

No, i dont know if it works. But do you imagine having dry ejaculations and having POIS? But if it happens i will be sattisfied because i WAS FIGHTING and even if it wont help we will have the knowledge.

[Daveman]

I know Animus didn't have immediate success. He had to keep removing things until it was finally enough.

[Starsky]

Yes, his cure was complete when he stopped secreted any fluids. This is his conclusion.

[Stef]

First I want to apologize that i will not donate this year to NORD to seek the cure. Today I decided to GET THE CURE. I started to search Urologists here in Poland which will help me in the realization of the plan:
-banking my semen
-doing a close-ended vasectomy (cost about 200 US Dollars and no problem in my country with doing this)
-removal of the seminal vescicles
-eventually TURP, but perhaps I wont need them if I will take finasteride

As you can see its a little bit modificated Animus Solution, because no one in Poland is willing to do a orchiectomy on demand and as Animus says it does not help a lot. The two other parts of the plan, I think I must do aborad: I hope I will find someone in Romania or Hungary (you can have there even Kidney transplants from a living donor).

Please help me and say what do you think about it?

Hi Starsky,

It seems very drastic -- and possibly even dangerous, depending on the physician.  You'll need to find the best doctors possible.  So please do your doctor research!

There will one day be a treatment for POIS -- maybe a cure -- that isn't at all drastic!

I want to say "Wait!!!!"  But you need to do what's right for you. 

Just really choose your doctor carefully.

POIS is horrific!!  For a man to choose castration -- even modified castration -- is almost unbelievable.

Research will find the answer.

Keep everyone posted, Starsky -- and don't rush into anything. 

Stef

[Starsky]

Stef thank you for your words, i needed to say what was I thinking (when I was in strong POIS even dreamed!) for a long long time. I will discuss this with many urologists, its not question of days or months, but years. I really dont want any surgeries in India, i think I could even travel to the US if its needed.

[Animus]

First I want to apologize that i will not donate this year to NORD to seek the cure. Today I decided to GET THE CURE. I started to search Urologists here in Poland which will help me in the realization of the plan:
-banking my semen
-doing a close-ended vasectomy (cost about 200 US Dollars and no problem in my country with doing this)
-removal of the seminal vescicles
-eventually TURP, but perhaps I wont need them if I will take finasteride

As you can see its a little bit modificated Animus Solution, because no one in Poland is willing to do a orchiectomy on demand and as Animus says it does not help a lot. The two other parts of the plan, I think I must do aborad: I hope I will find someone in Romania or Hungary (you can have there even Kidney transplants from a living donor).

Please help me and say what do you think about it?

sorry... I initially posted this on the other forum..! but just copied it over here to continue this thread.
Hi Starsky,
There's 2 things I want to do and respond to your plan. First- let me say I don't "advocate" surgery as "the cure". But it has the potential to remove the POIS symptoms, and for me surgery combined with meds and maintenance was effective.  I want to Support Starsky in what must be a hard decision- which I think he's been considering for a couple of years.
The other thing was to give you all an update on my condition. It has been 3-1/2 years since I had surgery.

I just wrote a long reply, and lost it! so I have to reconstruct this...!

Sometimes I really hate computers!
Anyways.

The guiding principle for my surgery was to achieve "dry ejaculation" and "minimize semen production". I think it's good to keep that in mind in weighing the surgical option.

1. Of course it's a good idea to bank your semen before you do any surgical procedure. Where I did it they recommended at least 2 deposits. They separate it by motility, which reduces the total amount, and also some of the sperm will die during the freezing process. I just did 2 deposits, and I still pay a monthly storage fee for that at Idant Labs in NYC. They were very good.

2.You are considering a close-ended vasectomy. I believe there are some others here who have done vasectomies, for various reasons, so that might help to inquire of them too on their experiences.  From my limited knowledge of the Vasectomy- it will prevent Sperm from joining the Semen during ejaculation- thereby preventing pregnancy. One question I have regarding the vasectomy is whether it causes "Retrograde Ejaculation" which is an internal ejaculation of Semen fluid into the bladder- this would still trigger semen production.  Be aware of that possibility. The alternative is no Sperm transfer at all, and the Sperm is slowly re-absorbed into the body. I think the latter has a better chance of working in my view.

(continued..)

3. The removal of the Seminal Vesicles. I did this too. These glands contribute up to 60% of Seminal fluid- if I remember correctly... I think there is a chart somewhere here with the information. Their purpose is solely to provide a component of Semen, and also are fairly well isolated physically, and purposefully, I believe. So removing them will effectively reduce your Semen volume and will cut down your Semen production. However, they are located deep within the pelvis, and this is an invasive surgery. I was given full anesthesia for a few hours for this operation. Be vigilant and take all possible precautions if you pursue this. From the best doctor you can afford, to keeping focused on safety. There is the possibility of nerve damage which could cause the loss of erection. I was in the hospital for about 5 days in recovery, and there is a long scar on my lower abdomen. However, the procedure was successful, and I would do it again...

4. The TURP- or surgery to shrink the Prostate. The Prostate is an important component to address because it contributes a proportion of the Seminal Fluid. I had a TURP too. It went well. TURPS are fairly common and partially remove the inner Prostate. It is also somewhat non-invasive- as it is done without any incision. I think it's a good idea to first try the Medicine as you say, before the TURP. The medicine is quite effective for shrinking the Prostate- and I use both the Saw Palmetto, and Avodart in addition to having done the TURP. The prostate is always growing throughout life. But it is better to keep it inside, and under control, rather than to remove it they say, because it also functions to control the bladder, and it is in a densely populated nerve area.

I will keep posted on the topic. I also want to give you a personal update re. my POIS- but I've got to get to work...I have a lot of s--t to do!  Best regards,
Animus

[vetrofragile79]

but eliminates or not the pois ? i do not understand ..

1)Is there a method to lower libido?

2)It 'better to chemical castration or vasectomy to eliminate the pois.

thank u

[Stef]

First I want to apologize that i will not donate this year to NORD to seek the cure. Today I decided to GET THE CURE. I started to search Urologists here in Poland which will help me in the realization of the plan:
-banking my semen
-doing a close-ended vasectomy (cost about 200 US Dollars and no problem in my country with doing this)
-removal of the seminal vescicles
-eventually TURP, but perhaps I wont need them if I will take finasteride

As you can see its a little bit modificated Animus Solution, because no one in Poland is willing to do a orchiectomy on demand and as Animus says it does not help a lot. The two other parts of the plan, I think I must do aborad: I hope I will find someone in Romania or Hungary (you can have there even Kidney transplants from a living donor).

Please help me and say what do you think about it?

sorry... I initially posted this on the other forum..! but just copied it over here to continue this thread.
Hi Starsky,
There's 2 things I want to do and respond to your plan. First- let me say I don't "advocate" surgery as "the cure". But it has the potential to remove the POIS symptoms, and for me surgery combined with meds and maintenance was effective.  I want to Support Starsky in what must be a hard decision- which I think he's been considering for a couple of years.
The other thing was to give you all an update on my condition. It has been 3-1/2 years since I had surgery.

I just wrote a long reply, and lost it! so I have to reconstruct this...!

Sometimes I really hate computers!
Anyways.

The guiding principle for my surgery was to achieve "dry ejaculation" and "minimize semen production". I think it's good to keep that in mind in weighing the surgical option.

1. Of course it's a good idea to bank your semen before you do any surgical procedure. Where I did it they recommended at least 2 deposits. They separate it by motility, which reduces the total amount, and also some of the sperm will die during the freezing process. I just did 2 deposits, and I still pay a monthly storage fee for that at Idant Labs in NYC. They were very good.

2.You are considering a close-ended vasectomy. I believe there are some others here who have done vasectomies, for various reasons, so that might help to inquire of them too on their experiences.  From my limited knowledge of the Vasectomy- it will prevent Sperm from joining the Semen during ejaculation- thereby preventing pregnancy. One question I have regarding the vasectomy is whether it causes "Retrograde Ejaculation" which is an internal ejaculation of Semen fluid into the bladder- this would still trigger semen production.  Be aware of that possibility. The alternative is no Sperm transfer at all, and the Sperm is slowly re-absorbed into the body. I think the latter has a better chance of working in my view.

(continued..)

3. The removal of the Seminal Vesicles. I did this too. These glands contribute up to 60% of Seminal fluid- if I remember correctly... I think there is a chart somewhere here with the information. Their purpose is solely to provide a component of Semen, and also are fairly well isolated physically, and purposefully, I believe. So removing them will effectively reduce your Semen volume and will cut down your Semen production. However, they are located deep within the pelvis, and this is an invasive surgery. I was given full anesthesia for a few hours for this operation. Be vigilant and take all possible precautions if you pursue this. From the best doctor you can afford, to keeping focused on safety. There is the possibility of nerve damage which could cause the loss of erection. I was in the hospital for about 5 days in recovery, and there is a long scar on my lower abdomen. However, the procedure was successful, and I would do it again...

4. The TURP- or surgery to shrink the Prostate. The Prostate is an important component to address because it contributes a proportion of the Seminal Fluid. I had a TURP too. It went well. TURPS are fairly common and partially remove the inner Prostate. It is also somewhat non-invasive- as it is done without any incision. I think it's a good idea to first try the Medicine as you say, before the TURP. The medicine is quite effective for shrinking the Prostate- and I use both the Saw Palmetto, and Avodart in addition to having done the TURP. The prostate is always growing throughout life. But it is better to keep it inside, and under control, rather than to remove it they say, because it also functions to control the bladder, and it is in a densely populated nerve area.

I will keep posted on the topic. I also want to give you a personal update re. my POIS- but I've got to get to work...I have a lot of s--t to do!  Best regards,
Animus

Hi Animus!

I just saw your message for the first time (been very busy at work also!) and just wanted to say -- I'm sooooo glad that you are POIS-free!!!!!!!! 

I wish I had the right words to express to you how really glad I am that the surgical procedures were successful.  This obviously would have been a major decision for YOU also -- your willingness to support another forum member who is grappling with this idea reflects how unselfish and caring you've been all along about this issue. (I hope I'm not embarrassing you!)

Your explanation of the procedures you've undergone were very clear and very interesting, also.  I've always considered you a real "pioneer" -- not only regarding surgical intervention for POIS, but for being the first to go public in that TLC episode.
 
My wish for you is that you fall madly in love, get married, and have a few kids!  (Of course, that may not be your wish for you!!)

Mostly, I just wanted to express how glad I am to hear that you're doing so well from the POIS perspective.

I feel very bad for those forum members who don't have English as their primary language and who are trying to really understand what you've written.  If I spoke French, I'd translate it word for word for vetrofragile79.

If anyone out there feels able -- please translate for vetrofragile79!

I've said before -- I cannot imagine trying to post and/or understand posts about POIS in a language that's not my own (English).  I understand a lot of Spanish, and speak Hebrew, having lived in Israel -- but still -- could not post here in either language.

Animus -- it was great to read your post!

And not for nothing -- I've written lengthy posts both here and on NSF and they suddenly disappear before I post it!!!!  Utter frustration!  So you're not alone in that department. :-)

Stef

[Daveman]

but eliminates or not the pois ? i do not understand ..

1)Is there a method to lower libido?

2)It 'better to chemical castration or vasectomy to eliminate the pois.

thank u

More or less statistically I think that Animus is the ONLY one who can say that he has had 100% cure (the surgical route)
Next is Demo with 95% cure with testosterone and retouches of a few other compounds to remove lingering symptoms
Then several of us with relief varying from 95% to 40% with Niacin and/or other vitamin B supplements

So on the surface it seems that surgery has had the best success, BUT, every case is different, and our trials have been with a very
small population. The vitamins nor the testosterone work for everyone. There has been only one who has done the surgery, so we
don't really know if it works for everyone. Imagine doing all that non-reversible surgery and finding it didn't work!

At times it seems that there is such promise, yet, really looking at it we have nothing! That's why our research program is so very important.

Imagine being in a position that we KNOW for SURE, what causes POIS and what is required to fix it. What would that be worth?

[Animus]

Hello Stef!,
Thanks so much for the terrific greeting!
I agree with Starsky in wanting to keep Fighting this and I want to stay involved because I think the Refractory Theory is a viable alternate theory to the Allergy Theory, and it helped cure me. We definitely will learn from people doing something. Of course I'm totally behind the research fund too.

Starsky, I think your plan is well-considered. Not doing the oriechtomy first is a good idea, really for you. The testicles contribute only 5% of semen volume. When I had my testicles removed, it did help my POIS, by around 10-15% relief. The advantage of not removing them, would be to not have to do testosterone therapy- which takes time to find the correct dose and get used to. So I think it's a good idea to approach it from the other organs first, like you're planning. I am planning to have testicular implants at some point- it will be a cosmetic improvement. The reason I did remove then one at a time, was that my testicles had a very large growth on them, which appeared at the same time as my sudden POIS, and I would also feel pain in them and I had high testosterone levels. So removing them did relieve those things for me. I was able to lower my testo levels to normal, and be more hormonally balanced.  

[Nightingale]

First I want to apologize that i will not donate this year to NORD to seek the cure. Today I decided to GET THE CURE. I started to search Urologists here in Poland which will help me in the realization of the plan:
-banking my semen
-doing a close-ended vasectomy (cost about 200 US Dollars and no problem in my country with doing this)
-removal of the seminal vescicles
-eventually TURP, but perhaps I wont need them if I will take finasteride

As you can see its a little bit modificated Animus Solution, because no one in Poland is willing to do a orchiectomy on demand and as Animus says it does not help a lot. The two other parts of the plan, I think I must do aborad: I hope I will find someone in Romania or Hungary (you can have there even Kidney transplants from a living donor).

Please help me and say what do you think about it?

Drogi bracie,

I am Polish, my father is from Polska and my mother's parents.  I live in the USA but I have been to Polska many times.  I didn't realize there were other Poles on here.

I want you to read the post I just posted in General Alternative Causes about the vitamin supplementation regimine I have been taking along with kurtosis, a very well educated POIS sufferer who knows his biochemistry well.  Yesterday I had an "O" after almost 3 weeks on these vitamins and IT WORKED.  I had NO POIS, or almost 95% no POIS.  I'm not kidding, I actually has 2 orgasms last night and I still feel good today!

Why does niacin flush work for POIS?  It probably has more to do with a deficiency/absorption issue for vitamins and other things than SIMPLY an autoimmune reaction.  I believe  an allergic reaction is still a part of our symptoms, but there is a reason why Animus didn't get immediate results, and from what I gather he doesn't feel all the best either.

Please consider starting a heavy vitamin/herb regimin like is explained in the other post, and learn from what kurtosis is saying on the NSF thread here: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.17525

Keep your balls!

[Daveman]

Nightingale,

He can start a thread over here JUST about this topic, not all mixed in with other stuff. The medical investigators who follow this theory are here.

NSF thinks we are a porn channel! What kind of support is that in the long run.

They have families and children who go to that forum so they are VERY touchy.

Here we are ourselves. We support POIS and if we have to talk about castration or masturbation or suicide, we are not being monitored and corrected
all the time.

I know Kurtosis is very scientific and techinical, but here we are among our own, and are looking for a scientific solution. But it is deeper than scientific.
It is human. Here we are human too!

[Nightingale]

That is disappointing to hear regarding NSF.  They helped us get so far but now I guess we are a liability!  I will continue to visit NSF and push people towards this forum, I really do prefer it here!

[Daveman]

For some, it's a matter of getting used to it. Change is difficult. Especially to someone in POIS most of the time.

But once you are here and get accustomed to the extra space and flexibility, it is worth it.

They won't like outright publication of poiscenter, they have forbidden it, but we can get away with gentle
references to this data or that data, links of technical value.

You can breath over here!

[FloppyBanana]

First I want to apologize that i will not donate this year to NORD to seek the cure. Today I decided to GET THE CURE. I started to search Urologists here in Poland which will help me in the realization of the plan:
-banking my semen
-doing a close-ended vasectomy (cost about 200 US Dollars and no problem in my country with doing this)
-removal of the seminal vescicles
-eventually TURP, but perhaps I wont need them if I will take finasteride

As you can see its a little bit modificated Animus Solution, because no one in Poland is willing to do a orchiectomy on demand and as Animus says it does not help a lot. The two other parts of the plan, I think I must do aborad: I hope I will find someone in Romania or Hungary (you can have there even Kidney transplants from a living donor).

Please help me and say what do you think about it?

sorry... I initially posted this on the other forum..! but just copied it over here to continue this thread.
Hi Starsky,
There's 2 things I want to do and respond to your plan. First- let me say I don't "advocate" surgery as "the cure". But it has the potential to remove the POIS symptoms, and for me surgery combined with meds and maintenance was effective.  I want to Support Starsky in what must be a hard decision- which I think he's been considering for a couple of years.
The other thing was to give you all an update on my condition. It has been 3-1/2 years since I had surgery.

I just wrote a long reply, and lost it! so I have to reconstruct this...!

Sometimes I really hate computers!
Anyways.

The guiding principle for my surgery was to achieve "dry ejaculation" and "minimize semen production". I think it's good to keep that in mind in weighing the surgical option.

1. Of course it's a good idea to bank your semen before you do any surgical procedure. Where I did it they recommended at least 2 deposits. They separate it by motility, which reduces the total amount, and also some of the sperm will die during the freezing process. I just did 2 deposits, and I still pay a monthly storage fee for that at Idant Labs in NYC. They were very good.

2.You are considering a close-ended vasectomy. I believe there are some others here who have done vasectomies, for various reasons, so that might help to inquire of them too on their experiences.  From my limited knowledge of the Vasectomy- it will prevent Sperm from joining the Semen during ejaculation- thereby preventing pregnancy. One question I have regarding the vasectomy is whether it causes "Retrograde Ejaculation" which is an internal ejaculation of Semen fluid into the bladder- this would still trigger semen production.  Be aware of that possibility. The alternative is no Sperm transfer at all, and the Sperm is slowly re-absorbed into the body. I think the latter has a better chance of working in my view.

(continued..)

3. The removal of the Seminal Vesicles. I did this too. These glands contribute up to 60% of Seminal fluid- if I remember correctly... I think there is a chart somewhere here with the information. Their purpose is solely to provide a component of Semen, and also are fairly well isolated physically, and purposefully, I believe. So removing them will effectively reduce your Semen volume and will cut down your Semen production. However, they are located deep within the pelvis, and this is an invasive surgery. I was given full anesthesia for a few hours for this operation. Be vigilant and take all possible precautions if you pursue this. From the best doctor you can afford, to keeping focused on safety. There is the possibility of nerve damage which could cause the loss of erection. I was in the hospital for about 5 days in recovery, and there is a long scar on my lower abdomen. However, the procedure was successful, and I would do it again...

4. The TURP- or surgery to shrink the Prostate. The Prostate is an important component to address because it contributes a proportion of the Seminal Fluid. I had a TURP too. It went well. TURPS are fairly common and partially remove the inner Prostate. It is also somewhat non-invasive- as it is done without any incision. I think it's a good idea to first try the Medicine as you say, before the TURP. The medicine is quite effective for shrinking the Prostate- and I use both the Saw Palmetto, and Avodart in addition to having done the TURP. The prostate is always growing throughout life. But it is better to keep it inside, and under control, rather than to remove it they say, because it also functions to control the bladder, and it is in a densely populated nerve area.

I will keep posted on the topic. I also want to give you a personal update re. my POIS- but I've got to get to work...I have a lot of s--t to do!  Best regards,
Animus

Hi Animus!

I just saw your message for the first time (been very busy at work also!) and just wanted to say -- I'm sooooo glad that you are POIS-free!!!!!!!! 

I wish I had the right words to express to you how really glad I am that the surgical procedures were successful.  This obviously would have been a major decision for YOU also -- your willingness to support another forum member who is grappling with this idea reflects how unselfish and caring you've been all along about this issue. (I hope I'm not embarrassing you!)

Your explanation of the procedures you've undergone were very clear and very interesting, also.  I've always considered you a real "pioneer" -- not only regarding surgical intervention for POIS, but for being the first to go public in that TLC episode.
 
My wish for you is that you fall madly in love, get married, and have a few kids!  (Of course, that may not be your wish for you!!)

Mostly, I just wanted to express how glad I am to hear that you're doing so well from the POIS perspective.

I feel very bad for those forum members who don't have English as their primary language and who are trying to really understand what you've written.  If I spoke French, I'd translate it word for word for *removed*.

If anyone out there feels able -- please translate for *removed*

I've said before -- I cannot imagine trying to post and/or understand posts about POIS in a language that's not my own (English).  I understand a lot of Spanish, and speak Hebrew, having lived in Israel -- but still -- could not post here in either language.

Animus -- it was great to read your post!

And not for nothing -- I've written lengthy posts both here and on NSF and they suddenly disappear before I post it!!!!  Utter frustration!  So you're not alone in that department. :-)

Stef

did starsky get the operation done?

FloppyB