Free Flow Discussion about POIS

[Daveman]

I'm not sure we're winning the battle with spammers. We're still having to delete several per day, and some of them are pretty gross!

Several members signed up recently to move to a new version and put in a spam filter. The cost was $240, we put in $300. There was a good filter we had installed a year or two ago before the last upgrade, but the upgrade ate it up. That filter let us ban, delete AND report spammers before they got into any position to post.

I would like to install that same filter again, but it would cost more than the amount we have left ( which is $60 or one hour).

It is a good filter and shoul help in the short term, but forum maintenance is an ongoing thing, so I suspect that what we really need is around $150 to $200 per month to keep things clean.

Obviously if I could put in the time like I used to be able to do, there would be no cost. There have been some offers to  help physically (and free) but for one reason or another, it really comes  down to the fact that we need an independant service to keep things clean.

When people aren't paid, the committment isn't the same. There are security issues, etc. etc.

So I'm looking for ideas, perhaps small fundraising efforts to get the relatively small quantity of $150 to $200 per month coming in to help out.

We have an alternate site at google groups, http://tinyurl.com/nscsbfs where we can go if we run intro problems like we had before where the site was down for a short time, and we will probably be going there more completely if we don't get much response to helping out with the maintenance.

Please, feedback.

[demografx]

I'm not sure we're winning the battle with spammers. We're still having to delete several per day, and some of them are pretty gross!

Several members signed up recently to move to a new version and put in a spam filter. The cost was $240, we put in $300. There was a good filter we had installed a year or two ago before the last upgrade, but the upgrade ate it up. That filter let us ban, delete AND report spammers before they got into any position to post.

I would like to install that same filter again, but it would cost more than the amount we have left ( which is $60 or one hour).

It is a good filter and should help in the short term, but forum maintenance is an ongoing thing, so I suspect that what we really need is around $150 to $200 per month to keep things clean.

Obviously if I could put in the time like I used to be able to do, there would be no cost. There have been some offers to  help physically (and free) but for one reason or another, it really comes  down to the fact that we need an independant service to keep things clean.

When people aren't paid, the committment isn't the same. There are security issues, etc. etc.

So I'm looking for ideas, perhaps small fundraising efforts to get the relatively small quantity of $150 to $200 per month coming in to help out.

We have an alternate site at google groups, http://tinyurl.com/nscsbfs where we can go if we run intro problems like we had before where the site was down for a short time, and we will probably be going there more completely if we don't get much response to helping out with the maintenance.

Please, feedback.

THANK YOU, DAVEMAN!

[Prancer]

What about human approval of new members? So that means completely stopping all new sign-ups like you did before. And if someone new wants to join, they would have to message demografx or someone else, perhaps at NSF. Then maybe once a week (more or less) the genuine members' requests can be received & approved. It would be a slight inconvenience & delay for new members, but it would guarantee no spam would get through, and wouldn't require much maintenance because the posts would all come from trusted users, rather than from brand new members (which are the main source of the spam).

And thanks for the continuing effort!

[demografx]

I'm not sure we're winning the battle with spammers. We're still having to delete several per day, and some of them are pretty gross!

Several members joined up recently to move to a new version and put in a spam filter. The cost was $240, we put in $300. There was a good filter we had installed a year or two ago before the last upgrade, but the upgrade ate it up. That filter let us ban, delete AND report spammers before they got into any position to post.

I would like to install that same filter again, but it would cost more than the amount we have left ( which is $60 or one hour).

It is a good filter and should help in the short term, but forum maintenance is an ongoing thing, so I suspect that what we really need is around $150 to $200 per month to keep things clean.

Obviously if I could put in the time like I used to be able to do, there would be no cost. There have been some offers to  help physically (and free) but for one reason or another, it really comes  down to the fact that we need an independant service to keep things clean.

When people aren't paid, the committment isn't the same. There are security issues, etc. etc.

So I'm looking for ideas, perhaps small fundraising efforts to get the relatively small quantity of $150 to $200 per month coming in to help out.

We have an alternate site at google groups, http://tinyurl.com/nscsbfs where we can go if we run in to problems like we had before where the site was down for a short time, and we will probably be going there more completely if we don't get much response to helping out with the maintenance.

Please, feedback.

What about human approval of new members? So that means completely stopping all new sign-ups like you did before. And if someone new wants to join, they would have to message demografx or someone else, either here or at NSF (if there are phony requests here). Then maybe once a week (more or less) the genuine members' requests can be received & approved. It would be a slight inconvenience & delay for new members, but it would guarantee no spam would get through, and wouldn't require much maintenance because the posts would all come from trusted users, rather than from brand new members (which are the main source of the spam).

And thanks for the continuing effort!

Excellent  ideas, Prancer!

[Daveman]

What about human approval of new members? So that means completely stopping all new sign-ups like you did before. And if someone new wants to join, they would have to message demografx or someone else, perhaps at NSF. Then maybe once a week (more or less) the genuine members' requests can be received & approved. It would be a slight inconvenience & delay for new members, but it would guarantee no spam would get through, and wouldn't require much maintenance because the posts would all come from trusted users, rather than from brand new members (which are the main source of the spam).

And thanks for the continuing effort!

Thanks for the response Prancer.

Human approval sounds bullet proof, but it is actually fairly messy. We receive about 200 to 400 requests per day. Most of course are machines and spammers. Each of these registration requests put an Email in the inbox. The title and content of the Email are identical except for the username. The title itself doesn't have the username. So we have to ask the registrants to send a special mail manually requesting attention. Some don't see the request, some don't include their username in the request etc. etc. We have to go through the hundreds of requests to find an original one. We miss some. This requires time and attention, and we still get several complaints that people are not being attended.

So ideally, filter databases are the best route.

Another thing that helps a fair bit is regular blocking of spam robot scanners. There are many, many of them and it's like trying to kill flies with your hands. I'll have to check to see of there are bot blockers.

Most suggestions here are going to require that we physically maintain the site ourselves. That's where the problem lies. We, I, just can't do that now.

I've put in several years, but now I'm working on the final retirement project of my life. I'm 66 and this last project should sinch up the future for my family and grandchildren in the future. I have to give it my all, besides it being an opportunity of a lifeftime.

Whatever we do has to be low maintenance on our part. In the end, among 100 or so members, a monthly bill of $200 is not much to pay, to have a place where people can share and learn about POIS in peace.

Thanks for the input, and keep it coming.

[Quantum]

Thanks for the response Prancer.

Human approval sounds bullet proof, but it is actually fairly messy. We receive about 200 to 400 requests per day. Most of course are machines and spammers. Each of these registration requests put an Email in the inbox. The title and content of the Email are identical except for the username. The title itself doesn't have the username. So we have to ask the registrants to send a special mail manually requesting attention. Some don't see the request, some don't include their username in the request etc. etc. We have to go through the hundreds of requests to find an original one. We miss some. This requires time and attention, and we still get several complaints that people are not being attended.

So ideally, filter databases are the best route.

Another thing that helps a fair bit is regular blocking of spam robot scanners. There are many, many of them and it's like trying to kill flies with your hands. I'll have to check to see of there are bot blockers.

Most suggestions here are going to require that we physically maintain the site ourselves. That's where the problem lies. We, I, just can't do that now.

I've put in several years, but now I'm working on the final retirement project of my life. I'm 66 and this last project should sinch up the future for my family and grandchildren in the future. I have to give it my all, besides it being an opportunity of a lifeftime.

Whatever we do has to be low maintenance on our part. In the end, among 100 or so members, a monthly bill of $200 is not much to pay, to have a place where people can share and learn about POIS in peace.

Thanks for the input, and keep it coming.

Hi Daveman and everyone,

The number of bots and illegitimate registration attempts is extremely high here, and it must be caused by the presence in our posts of words like "ejaculation", "penis", "erection", 'masturbation" and the like, which attract the bots here.  It is quite obvious to me, as other forums do not have this level of spamming attempts ( at least, those I have been running ).  Considering what POIS is about, this won't change.


There are mainly two options, then.  Either you put together a team of trusted persons that will take turns at managing manually the new memberships and their posts ( and you do not seem to be in favor of this option ) or you put up a Paypal Donation link for the forum in order to buy an efficient spam bot blocker.

If this forum has raised 33k for a study, it should be able to raise a few hundreds in order to buy a spam bot blocker.   After having bought a few of them, the remaining work of manual spam deleting and illegitimate members removal should be far less demanding.

I think you should still consider to train a trusted member in order to help you, even if a filter is bought.  I know it is hard as a founder to do that and let go a bit, after so many years and so many hours put on this forum.  But you have better things to do now, and this retirement project sounds great for you and your family, and, by the way, I wish you great financial success with it :-)

Let us know when a Paypal link will be available, I will be more than happy to do my part in buying a spam filter for the forum.

[Stef]

Hi All,

Just to add some commentary here, I've been helping Daveman by deleting spam posts and spam accounts for several months. That system was a very good one when the spam filter was working -- even when it was only working 50% of the time.

But these days it's like chasing your shadow.

Re: new member registrations, Daveman had set up a very good system and I was also managing that. It was very simple to manage, and a new registrant would be approved in 1-2 days. FYI, the human registration requests stood out very obviously from all the spam bot registration requests.

But the current spam filter is like a mosquito screen that's been torn.

If this forum ultimately needs to move to the Google group platform that was started ~ one year ago, during a similar SMF spam crisis, I think everyone would get used to it quickly. Google groups are very easy to use, have decent spam blockers, and are FREE.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/?hl=en#!forum/poiscenter

It would be a good idea for many of you to go over to the POIS  Google group that had been set up, just to check it out, to get a sense for it. Once your posts start populating it, it would develop a great personality. ??

I'm not pushing for that...please don't think I am. It's just that raising money for a new spam blocker, plus donations to cover monthly maintenance fees on SMF -- could become unwieldy.

Stef

 

[Outsider]

Hi every one
100 poisers 3dollars by head
We can pay every year 36e
Ok for me

[Ccconfucius]

Hi every one
100 poisers 3dollars by head
We can pay every year 36e
Ok for me

i am down with paying. If we move what happens to all the stuff generated here.

[Colm]

Thanks Daveman & Stef & any others for the hard graft of spam deletion here.

Not sure on your calculation there above Outsider, but the idea of a certain number of people donating to Paypal an x amount per y period, over the year for spam filter here, is probably ideal, rather than us going back to that google groups. Then we potentially lose all this rich information here. The information here is so valuable to any new POISers finding the forum.

Obviously the reality of a consistent stream of donations to support ongoing spam filter might be the 'deal braking' issue. I am prepared to also donate money or time, in relative proportion to a sensible and financially sound decision.

As mentioned previously, there are also some offshore technical individuals who might take this on as a task, at an affordable rate. They might also raise the SEO level on the site, which falls (it would appear) below NSF & Reddit POIS sites, and oddly may struggle to be found under obvious search terms.

For instance, although I only know the basics from my work web space, the HTML page Meta source info below on POIS Forum doesn't have any reference to what people might search for "keywords", just PHP etc. This is NOT a criticism, and in fact it may be a choice you made, so the site would not attract more spam if we had the keywords optimized?

<meta name="description" content="Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.) - Index" />
<meta name="keywords" content="PHP, MySQL, bulletin, board, free, open, source, smf, simple, machines, forum" />

Quantum has also I see made some other good suggestions for consideration.

However, it is not fair to expect just 1 - 3 individuals spending time long-term, on behalf of others in manually deleting the spam, so hopefully some others might come on here and state if they are willing to donate money or time.   

More debate?

[Prancer]

What about human approval of new members? So that means completely stopping all new sign-ups like you did before. And if someone new wants to join, they would have to message demografx or someone else, perhaps at NSF. Then maybe once a week (more or less) the genuine members' requests can be received & approved. It would be a slight inconvenience & delay for new members, but it would guarantee no spam would get through, and wouldn't require much maintenance because the posts would all come from trusted users, rather than from brand new members (which are the main source of the spam).

And thanks for the continuing effort!

Thanks for the response Prancer.

Human approval sounds bullet proof, but it is actually fairly messy. We receive about 200 to 400 requests per day. Most of course are machines and spammers. Each of these registration requests put an Email in the inbox. The title and content of the Email are identical except for the username. The title itself doesn't have the username. So we have to ask the registrants to send a special mail manually requesting attention. Some don't see the request, some don't include their username in the request etc. etc. We have to go through the hundreds of requests to find an original one. We miss some. This requires time and attention, and we still get several complaints that people are not being attended.

So ideally, filter databases are the best route.

Another thing that helps a fair bit is regular blocking of spam robot scanners. There are many, many of them and it's like trying to kill flies with your hands. I'll have to check to see of there are bot blockers.

Most suggestions here are going to require that we physically maintain the site ourselves. That's where the problem lies. We, I, just can't do that now.

I've put in several years, but now I'm working on the final retirement project of my life. I'm 66 and this last project should sinch up the future for my family and grandchildren in the future. I have to give it my all, besides it being an opportunity of a lifeftime.

Whatever we do has to be low maintenance on our part. In the end, among 100 or so members, a monthly bill of $200 is not much to pay, to have a place where people can share and learn about POIS in peace.

Thanks for the input, and keep it coming.

That makes sense. But even if there are 200-400 bad requests a day, it seems that it would be relatively easy to find perhaps a prespecified code or keyword in the title of the message. (using ctrl+F or something similar)
The requester would be told ahead of time what to write, so their message can be quickly located out of the hundreds of machine requests. I'm talking about a manually typed personal request from & to another location other than poiscenter.

I know that there will be more elaborate suggestions about active physical maintenance. But, like you said, that would indeed cost money. So my suggestion was to simply keep things as simple as possible, dropping ALL new registration attempts. It would not be perfect, there might be some complaints (so what), but no need for filter databases or extra cost because you've sealed off the entrance to the forum.

By the way, how many actual genuine new members sign up here per week? It seems to me that there actually aren't too many. In fact, I haven't seen even just a single one in a very long time. So that means that blocking new registration attempts might actually go unnoticed by most. Because, who actually would be feel the effects from being stopped from signing up? Not very many it seems.

Not against low maintenance, and I agree with monthly cost, but where we are now (goal reached, research now underway) realistically, we are definitely past the forum "peak", and I personally think it's fine to scale things way, way, way back to the absolute bare operational minimum to dramatically cut costs. I myself have been mostly in a "read only" mode over the summer because I have said or asked mostly everything I needed to over the years.

Disclaimer: This is all just my own personal suggestion, comments and input!

[Quantum]

Hi All,

Just to add some commentary here, I've been helping Daveman by deleting spam posts and spam accounts for several months. That system was a very good one when the spam filter was working -- even when it was only working 50% of the time.

But these days it's like chasing your shadow.

Re: new member registrations, Daveman had set up a very good system and I was also managing that. It was very simple to manage, and a new registrant would be approved in 1-2 days. FYI, the human registration requests stood out very obviously from all the spam bot registration requests.

But the current spam filter is like a mosquito screen that's been torn.

If this forum ultimately needs to move to the Google group platform that was started ~ one year ago, during a similar SMF spam crisis, I think everyone would get used to it quickly. Google groups are very easy to use, have decent spam blockers, and are FREE.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/?hl=en#!forum/poiscenter

It would be a good idea for many of you to go over to the POIS  Google group that had been set up, just to check it out, to get a sense for it. Once your posts start populating it, it would develop a great personality. ??

I'm not pushing for that...please don't think I am. It's just that raising money for a new spam blocker, plus donations to cover monthly maintenance fees on SMF -- could become unwieldy.

Stef

Hi Stef,

I want to thank you for the time you have put in helping Daveman with the spam and registration problems.  All the moderators here are so dedicated, and that is why this forum has kept its high supportive and informative value for POIS sufferers.  So thanks to you, to Daveman, to Demo, and to all others who contribute to the smooth running and preservation of this forum.

I have a question for you, which is quite technical, but seems to be at the root of the problem. 
I have no details about the options and the technical possibilities of the current Simple Machines Forums version we have here, so I will try to put it as simply as possible.

First, in any forum, in order to be able to post any message, it is mandatory to have been accepted as a member. Clearly, those spammers that have succeeded in spamming the forum lately have become members at some point in time.

So, the spams we saw lately, are they from:

1. a bot that have been a silent member for a certain time,having succeeded in the registration process before the second, explanation mail have been asked for in the more elaborate signing up process?

Or
2. is it that some spammers take the time to manually write e-mails that look authentic, then they get accepted, and once accepted, they begin to spam right away ?

Or
3. are there hacking spamming bots which can by-pass completely the registration process, being able to make themselves members without any approval or real registration, and then spam at will ?


If 1 is true, this possibility will fade away, as new illegitimate registrations are now blocked.

I would be very surprised that 2 would be true, and that spammers would take the time to write a legitimate-looking e-mail.  If so, the mandatory "Brief reason for wanting to join the forum" should be upgraded to something like "elaborate about your motivations in joining the forum, in a text long enough so it is obvious that you are not a spammer who just want an access to the forum".  Becoming a member is useful only if you want to write messages on the board, viewing the messages need no membership.  Those who want to become members should be able to write something more elaborate tnan  "I think I have POIS and want to ask some questions".....

I am not sure that 3 is possible, and that a bot can hack the forum and register itself without any approbation, and start to post right away.  But if so, I would suggest that the forum should just be sealed on a regular basis, and re-opened only for brief periods, in order to register and accept those who have written legitimate explanation mails.  I agree with Prancer on that, there is not dozens of legitimate POISers who want to register each week.  Moreover, for about 100 legitimate new members, only maybe one will post more than one time on the board, and most will not post even once ( just check the forum stats, in the member list, sort by "posts".  All the members who have posted at least 1 message hold in the first 12 pages of 418 pages !!! this means that 97.1% of the registered members of this forum have never posted a single message ) . So there is no rush to accept new members.  Even if registration would become possible only once in every 2 weeks or so, that's still acceptable, in my opinion.


You have made the suggestion of moving to the Google groups forum.  The problem is that the value of this forum is in part in the wealth of information it contains, and in the fact that this information is easily searchable, is organized in sub-forums,in threads, etc  ( the old NSF forum, with everything fused in one single thread, was very far from this ).  Moving to another place, even if this one stays available for viewing only, would be disappointing.


Also, I have mentioned I would be willing to help pay for a good spam filter, or what is necessary to reduce the management time needed on this forum.  A one shot investment sounds realistic,  but just like you,  I would not be in favor of a chronic, monthly fee, which is not really the norm for a public internet forum, and would not work in the long term.

There is some hope, anyway -  the next version of Simple Machines Forum, SMF 2.1, which is still in beta, is supposed to have "Improved spam defenses, registration will be blocked if a user tries to register too quickly and also inept bots can be tripped up by hidden form variables.", as seen on http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Differences_between_SMF_2.1_and_SMF_2.0 .  Would this be enough?  I don't know, but it sounds better than the current defenses.

Sorry for this long post.  Just my personal opinions on this rather important reflexion we have on this forum future, and the best way to keep it up and running.

[Quantum]

So, the spams we saw lately, are they from:

1. a bot that have been a silent member for a certain time,having succeeded in the registration process before the second, explanation mail have been asked for in the more elaborate signing up process?
...

If 1 is true, this possibility will fade away, as new illegitimate registrations are now blocked.

A  follow up to my post of yesterday evening.  This morning, three spammers have posted ( liliakh69, harryop3 and joseae1 ) and they have been registered and silent since  February 2015 , April 2015 , and May 2015, respectively.   So , in these 3 cases, it fits with my hypothesis number 1, that is, bots who have registered in the past, have stayed silent for a while, and then some months later they begin to spam  ( I have seen this pattern already on forums I have been moderating).

I do not know if my 2 other hypothesis are correct or not, but for this case that has been proven true,  I suggest a selective but massive removal of new members who have registered in the last 18 months if they have not posted a single post since, and show a rather generic nickname, as real members usually come up with more colorful or inventive names .  Of course, there are chances that some legitimate members could be unregistered in the process, but
1. they have not posted yet in months, so there was no emergency from their part 
2. an advanced notice can be sent or a clear message posted on the forum, so those members will be alerted
3. if they are inadvertently unregistered, all they will have to do is to register again, with the second e-mail proving they are not a future spammer, and if they are aware of what happened, they will choose a more creative forum name, the kind a spammer would not take time to create and obviously, and the kind a spam bot is not able to create ( for example, it is 100% impossible that a bot comes up with a cool nick like Demografx :-)  )

And, if you look at the 3 spammers name above, you will easily recognize a pattern ( some weird name with 1 or 2 numbers at the end)  No sure method, and maybe a few legitimate members will be unregistered, but for sure, near 100% of silent future spammers will be flushed from the member list, at minimal cost.

After this cleaning, the current, more complicated registration process will prevent the majority of spammers to succeed at becoming a member.

any feedbacks on this suggestion ?

[Stef]

Quantum,

You've got a very good point. Your suggestion could be really helpful.

There has been one spam post from a spammer registered this month (September), but that's definitely not usually the case.

Let's see what Daveman's thoughts are.

Thank you!

Stef

[Prancer]

Yes, very great insight and observations Quantum. Looks like the spammers first infect the forum, remain quiet, then start spamming later on. And like you mentioned, it seems they have more random names that usually end with a number.

[demografx]

Daveman wrote 9/8:

I'm not sure we're winning the battle with spammers. We're still having to delete several per day, and some of them are pretty gross!

Several members joined up recently to move to a new version and put in a spam filter. The cost was $240, we put in $300. There was a good filter we had installed a year or two ago before the last upgrade, but the upgrade ate it up. That filter let us ban, delete AND report spammers before they got into any position to post.

I would like to install that same filter again, but it would cost more than the amount we have left ( which is $60 or one hour).

It is a good filter and should help in the short term, but forum maintenance is an ongoing thing, so I suspect that what we really need is around $150 to $200 per month to keep things clean.

Obviously if I could put in the time like I used to be able to do, there would be no cost. There have been some offers to  help physically (and free) but for one reason or another, it really comes  down to the fact that we need an independant service to keep things clean.

When people aren't paid, the committment isn't the same. There are security issues, etc. etc.

So I'm looking for ideas, perhaps small fundraising efforts to get the relatively small quantity of $150 to $200 per month coming in to help out.

We have an alternate site at google groups, http://tinyurl.com/nscsbfs where we can go if we run in to problems like we had before where the site was down for a short time, and we will probably be going there more completely if we don't get much response to helping out with the maintenance.

Please, feedback.

[demografx]

Daveman...PUT ME DOWN FOR $20/MONTH!
demo

[Quantum]

Quantum,

You've got a very good point. Your suggestion could be really helpful.

There has been one spam post from a spammer registered this month (September), but that's definitely not usually the case.

Let's see what Daveman's thoughts are.

Thank you!

Stef

Yes, very great insight and observations Quantum. Looks like the spammers first infect the forum, remain quiet, then start spamming later on. And like you mentioned, it seems they have more random names that usually end with a number.

Thanks for your positive feedback, Stef and Prancer .

I have just came back from work, and I have refined my analysis of the members list data :

Between January 1st and July 13 of this year alone, we had about 11500 new members !  I guess that July 13 is the date when the new registration process has been put in place, because that's the date the frenzy of new registrations have stopped.  Before that, there have been about 40 to 60 new members A DAY, for 18 months, which is not very likely for a rare condition like POIS , This spammers invasion has begun around April 2014.  Of the 12500 or so members of this forum,  it may be possible that only about 1000 are genuine members, and that the remaining 11500 are potential spammers/illegitimate members. 
POIS is a rare disease, and furthermore, not all POIS sufferers have found or will find this forum.  It would may be normal to have around 5 to  20 new members a month, possibly, but not 675 members a month like in the past 18 months.
Those 11500 fake members are quite easy to recognize, I think, and it wouldn't be that hard for a moderator to recognize and ban them, although it could be a long process, considering their huge number,  But there is 2 useful criteria to easily identify the fake members:
1. as I have mentioned, their forum name is usually composed of a first name followed by 3 to 4 random characters string, which can be 3 letters, or 2 letters followed by 2 numbers, or the like  ( I can create some for you : Johncl12, Mariankv2, LouisKuo, etc....). there are some variations, but not that much  ( like 2 to 3 capital letters followed by a first name).
2. In case of doubt, a look at the profile, in the field “Last Active”, will say “never” or show the same date as the registration date  ( meaning this fake member never came back so far to the forum after registration..... until it will start its spamming carreer.....   ). Even if he has not posted yet, a real member will have a Last Active date more recent than his registration date.  Of course, if a member have already posted (this can be seen in the last column to the right ), his genuine post has already proven his real member status.

I took a rapid look at the 50 pages of members that have last registered, and it seems quite easy to identify the real ones from the spammers - the more creative nicknames just stand out.  But they are rare and far between, there is hardly one real member by page of 30 new members. 

A filter that would ban all members having “never” in the Last Active field would save a lot of time to the moderators team.

So, I do not know if eliminating those members would take a lot of time from a moderator, but if they stays there, we have potential spamming for the 1000 years ahead !  On the other hand, now that we have a more limiting registration process and that the fake new members invasion is over since July, I believe that, if the forum get rid of the 11500 potential spammers already registered, a monthly fee will not be necessary because there will be a lot, lot less spam messages, if not almost none.

Afterward, it will be easier the recognize the valid membership registration and refine the registration process, and make regular 'pruning” of the member list if needed.

I understand Daveman is very busy, and doesn't have much time to manage the forum at this time, and it is perfectly ok with me that he takes care of his family future.  So, in order to help maintaining this forum that I really appreciate,  I propose a way to “win the battle over spammers”.   I had the time to do so this week, and have some experience as a forum moderator.  I think my suggestion would be easy to apply (even if it can be long to ban such a large number of fake members), and I hope Daveman will accept to allow someone of the moderator team to give it a try.

[demografx]

I'm not sure we're winning the battle with spammers. We're still having to delete several per day, and some of them are pretty gross!

Several members joined up recently to move to a new version and put in a spam filter. The cost was $240, we put in $300. There was a good filter we had installed a year or two ago before the last upgrade, but the upgrade ate it up. That filter let us ban, delete AND report spammers before they got into any position to post.

I would like to install that same filter again, but it would cost more than the amount we have left ( which is $60 or one hour).

It is a good filter and should help in the short term, but forum maintenance is an ongoing thing, so I suspect that what we really need is around $150 to $200 per month to keep things clean.

Obviously if I could put in the time like I used to be able to do, there would be no cost. There have been some offers to  help physically (and free) but for one reason or another, it really comes  down to the fact that we need an independant service to keep things clean.

When people aren't paid, the committment isn't the same. There are security issues, etc. etc.

So I'm looking for ideas, perhaps small fundraising efforts to get the relatively small quantity of $150 to $200 per month coming in to help out.

We have an alternate site at google groups, http://tinyurl.com/nscsbfs where we can go if we run in to problems like we had before where the site was down for a short time, and we will probably be going there more completely if we don't get much response to helping out with the maintenance.

Please, feedback

[demografx]

Hi every one
100 poisers 3dollars by head
We can pay every year 36e
Ok for me

i am down with paying. If we move what happens to all the stuff generated here.

Thanks, Cert!

Stuff? I think we can keep it here....and simply copy important stuff at Google Groups, or wherever/if we migrate.