Thiamine Megadoses (Vitamin B1) and Thiamine Analogs

[berlin1984]

About 2 to 3 years ago I remember people discussing on a forum how high-dose thiamine helped their POIS symptoms. So I tried thiamine then Benfotiamine. When I first started Benfotiamine, I believed that it produced a noticeable improvement in POIS symptoms. It was not an instant prepack improvement. It took a few days of constant supplementation.

 I lost my bottle of B1 a few months ago, but I noticed that I still don't have and POIS symptoms on my diet-stack. I broke my diet and my stack for blood test and supplement test several times. And when I resumed my diet-stack without B1 I still get full relief.

By coincidence when researching the ingredients of another supplement, I digged deeper into the Thiamine/Tiamine/Vitamin B1 rabbit hole and discovered megadosing (e.g. taking several hundrer mg of B1)

Could High-Dose Thiamine (B-1) Help with ME/CFS, Fibromyalgia, and the Neurological Complications of Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome?
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2021/04/15/thiamine-b-1-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-fibromyalgia/

Mega-Dose Thiamine: Beyond Addressing “Deficiency”
https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/mega-dose-thiamine-beyond-addressing-deficiency

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-fibromyalgia-cfs-me-chronic-lyme-sibo/

Megadosing is not about eliminating a deficiency, (which apparantely a lot of people have). It's about saturating the body with B1 to kick-start certain body functions (enzymes) into working even though they were not..(I'm not sure I understand it yet)

Regarding other forms mentioned on the forum like benfotiamine or Sulbutiamine: As I understand they have different bioavailability and also ability to cross blood brain barrier, so dosing there is different.

As another cofactor, Magnesium is needed.

Maybe someone tried this..
Please don't just randomly take a lot of pills, inform yourself first about the topic.

[Rollo]

Very interesting!

I have had succes with high dose Taurine (4,5-9g) and Magnesium seems to amplify the effect aswell.
If i read correctly both Taurine and Thiamine are important for the production of PON1 and therefore play a role in reducing low-density lipoproteins and therefore reducing oxidative stress...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17645625/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339625084_Effects_of_thiamine_treatment_on_oxidative_stress_in_experimental_diabetes

[demografx]

Please don't just randomly take a lot of pills, inform yourself first about the topic.

Hi Berlin,

Many thanks for a much-needed reminder for many of us!!

[Hopeoneday]

I did try this in past, about 2-3 times, but never with sucsese...
I did try this treatmant for my pois induced Parcinson like symptomes..
All 3 times i tryed to incriese dosing by 100mg then 200 then 400Mg..
as soon as i start incriesing dose more then 500mg, i started to hawe worsen
my symptomes, the i stopped.

[kosmo35]

I'm resurrecting this old post to bring you my experience of my last two weeks of supplementation with thiamine and benfotiamine.
I no longer have brain fog, my head is much much lighter, I don't have any gut problems, I have no itchy eyes, runny nose, my skin is noticeably improved and so is my acne, my hair is more voluminous and I rarely lose any underneath the shower, I no longer have back pain/asymmetrical walking.
But the best thing is that I feel energetic, motivated to do my work and above all calm and happy.
I'm convinced that the POIS dots have a lot to do with vagus nerve dysfunction. If the vagus nerve does not work, the parasympathetic system goes haywire and so does digestion, which slows down (developing SIBO, GERD, NAFLD etc.), circulation (poor peripheral circulation and POTS), shortness of breath, frequent and uncontrolled urination, difficulty managing excessive stimulation of the sympathetic system (for example during stressful situations or during sexual arousal).
Vitamin B1 is critical for proper carbohydrate metabolism and this may be why people benefit from a low-carb diet.
In these two weeks I have integrated, after reading and listening to dr. Lonsdale and Elliott Overton's works, first with a Jarrow B-right active B vitamin supplement, having 25 mg of thiamine mononitrate and then with 100 mg of Swanson's benfotiamine (a pill divided into three parts).
As fundamental cofactors I take 420 mg magnesium citrate and 15 mg zinc.
I must say that for the first 8/9 days of supplementation with benfotiamine I did not feel any great benefits, if not even a worsening in terms of fatigue. Day after day the situation improved and I have never been so close to my normal state. I feel normal!
They call it a paradoxical situation or refeeding syndrome, because after years of the body not being used to receiving vitamin b1, it is not able to handle so much of it and the electrolytes become unbalanced.
Nanna1 also benefited greatly from benfotiamine and I don't understand why he excluded it from the cascade stack just because it's expensive (it's not). We read from his story that nanna began to integrate benfotiamine and Sam-e at the same time, realizing the disappearance of the symptoms. From then on he attributed his success to sam-e but I'm sure the benfotiamine had a big impact.

[Muon]

Crosstalk between vitamin B and immunity
Page 283
B1 affects bcl2? I have seen this pathway being mentioned in varicoceles.

[Hopeoneday]

Is this is the key about benfotiamine? Benfotiamine, also known as S-benzoylthiamine-O-monophosphate, is a lipid-soluble derivative of vitamin B1 (thiamine) and is absorbed up to 3.6 times more than water-soluble forms.

In uper post i did tryed more the 800mg dose of tiamine,
when thing got worse i give up, i did was so hopefull that it will
help me to repair gut, discoordination, muscules stiffnes etc..

Maybe to try benfotiamine?

[kosmo35]

Benfotiamine and TTFD have been shown to have a greater absorption rate than the water soluble form of thiamine, and to be able to penetrate the blood-brain barrier. However, several people have been shown to receive great benefit from megadosing regular thiamine.
According to what Elliott Overton says in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DxvSUEVT_4) to make the "magic" happen it is necessary to support the three areas that can be compromised by the overdose of a single nutrient such as thiamine, which are methylation, electrolytes and glutathione.
As regards electrolytes, supplementation with magnesium is essential, for methylation it may be useful to have a b complex and for glutathione it may be a good idea to take a precursor.
But the most important thing is to start SLOWLY. The paradoxical reaction can occur even at low doses and you should not be afraid to break the capsules even into 10 parts if necessary.
Finally, each form of thiamine has its own degree of potency. For the disulfide derivative 50 mg is already a significant dose.

[kosmo35]

After a month of Benfotiamine supplementation I reached the dose of 300 mg and now I feel totally normal as I did years ago.
I can consider myself completely recovered. Yesterday I had 3 orgasms and immediately after I was able to play ping pong for 1 hour with my normal energy.
I don't understand how this treatment can be so neglected on this forum, since in most cases it has helped people suffering from CFS and POIS is a form of CFS (or rather CFS seen from one point of view).
For me the chain of causes is this:
Thiamine deficiency - Vagus nerve dysfunction - Autonomic failure - Impaired digestion, POTS, NAFLD, SIBO, Candida Overgrowth - Activation of the immune system - Histamine-mediated inflammation.
Orgasm is simply an event that requires great involvement of the autonomic system to regulate it.
In fact, abstinence never completely resolved the symptoms.
I think my contribution on this forum will cease soon, so if you have any questions I will remain available in the next few days.
Have a good day everyone.

[Warrior]

Interesting stuff. Will add to my list of future experiments mostly for food sensitivities.

[Sisyphus]

I found this interesting too. So this has been tried for CFS, Fibromyagia, IBD and Parkinson's Disease. Now POIS. Dopamine connection?
I think this sounds safe enough for me to try carefully short term. I would want to understand it better and to discuss it with someone with medical expertise before I would try high doses for more than a month or longer term. Is it a lifetime treatment or does it initiate a biological change and lead to a cure? What are the long term potential side effects? etc

@kosmo35 I hope you are still feeling the benefits of this? It's great you've found something you think works for you. Also, thanks for the info. In my experience, one month of success isn't very long. It would be great if you could consider posting an update in a few months.

[kosmo35]

I must say that after the first week at the dose of 300 mg of Benfotiamine, I felt the presence of new symptoms, milder but still annoying, such as back pain and slight fogginess.
Reading on the Hormones Matter website I understood that it could be a renal overload due to the loss of potassium and bicarbonate due to the high dose of thiamine (renal tubular acidosis).
I knew that potassium was an important cofactor, but I ignored it initially and limited myself to taking magnesium citrate, zinc and b complex as described in the previous post.
I decided to supplement with potassium citrate at a dose of around 750 mg, but no benefit.
The next day I then added some sodium bicarbonate (1 tsp) to the potassium and the usual supplementation and BOOM! instant disappearance of mental fog and tension in the lower back.
So now I supplement with potassium bicarbonate and I'm making incredible progress. I don't know how to describe but it's like until now I've seen the world in 360p and now I'm able to see the world in 4k.
My explanation of the phenomenon is this: I may have suffered from a mitochondrial dysfunction in recent years, which has gradually worsened over time.
This dysfunction prevents glucose from entering the krebs cycle producing co2, which instead becomes lactic acid.
Lactic acid saturates the tissues giving the chronic sensation of having just completed an intense physical effort.
High-dose thiamine apparently is able to reverse mitochondrial damage until healing and bicarbonate, by raising the intracellular pH, pushes lactic acid out of the cells.
I will definitely continue to update in the coming months on my situation. Good luck to everyone!

[Andre2505]

May I know what diet you are on now?

[kosmo35]

My diet is normal. I try to eat healthy as I always did before developing these disorders.
The only things I avoid are alcohol and coffee.
I would add that I have been doing intermittent fasting for a couple of years, I basically skip breakfast, but when I'm on holiday I easily break the mold

[kosmo35]

I'm doing very well with the high dose thiamine protocol.
Erections are solid, libido is high, the mind is clear, digestion is perfect and itching is eliminated.
I inform you that since Monday I decided to double the dose of thiamine because I noticed that I still had a slight brain fog, but no other symptoms, after eating a meal rich in carbohydrates.
This probably means that thiamine reserves are not saturated.
I will then update you on any improvements.
The current stack is:
Benfotiamine 600 mg
Magnesium citrate 425 mg
Zinc 20 mg
Thorne basic b complex 1 caps
Potassium bicarbonate 1/2 tsp

P.S. I ordered TTFD as a future supply, in addition to benfotiamine, so I will give feedback on that too.

[b_jim]

I'm very sensible to alcohol and sugar, maybe should I try But I already take low dose of mononitrate de thiamine without real effect...

- -

...Thiamine compounds in human semen

Spermatogenesis requires thiamine, as evidenced in transgenic mice lacking the high-affinity thiamine carrier ThTR1...

from : Thiamine Status in Humans and Content of Phosphorylated Thiamine Derivatives in Biopsies and Cultured Cells (2010)

[Andre2505]

I'll try taking vitamin B1 too. Guys, those who try this treatment (but in general with everyone) say it, let us know both for those who work, but also for those who have tried it and it doesn't work for them so people know which treatment to try first based on the successes

 Don't be passive in the forum, write what you feel, so that by combining all our information we can all get back to top health!

[Andre2505]

Is this is the key about benfotiamine? Benfotiamine, also known as S-benzoylthiamine-O-monophosphate, is a lipid-soluble derivative of vitamin B1 (thiamine) and is absorbed up to 3.6 times more than water-soluble forms.

In uper post i did tryed more the 800mg dose of tiamine,
when thing got worse i give up, i did was so hopefull that it will
help me to repair gut, discoordination, muscules stiffnes etc..

Maybe to try benfotiamine?

Try try

[kosmo35]

I've been on the Benfotiamine regimen for two months and a half now and am very close to normal.
Two weeks ago I wanted to increase the dose to 900 mg because the anal itching I had had eased considerably with the 600 mg dose but it still gave me slight discomfort during the night.
I understood that the so-called paradoxical reaction is nothing more than our system "fixing" itself, perhaps fusing and fixing mitochondria to repair the damage. In fact, the symptoms, which are fatigue and brain fog, a sort of rewiring sensation (?), come in waves and every time I feel better, I feel better than before facing the paradoxical reaction, at a more lucid level high. Above all, I feel my back straightening day after day in a linear way. I suspect the vagus nerve has a lot to do with this.
Unfortunately I cannot update the post-orgasm situation because I decided to abandon masturbation a couple of weeks ago, as I consider it a useless habit, which reduces my self-esteem.
I will therefore try to give news if I have a wet dream or sexual intercourse.
However, I can tell you that I am able to manage stressful situations much better from both a physical and mental point of view.
If you want to try following this treatment, I advise you to insist on it for at least two months, slowly increasing the dose, when you can manage it without suffering an excessive reaction.
My full stack of cofactors:
Potassium bicarbonate 1/2 teaspoon;
Magnesium citrate 425 mg;
Thorne b complex 1 pill;
Benfotiamine 900 mg.
I also take zinc as I mentioned in previous posts, but it is not a cofactor.

[kosmo35]

in case you think that the benefits are due to abstaining from orgasm, I'll add this.
Between August and November last year I did a period of 110 days of abstinence and it didn't solve any problems.