Hi all,
Good news - I'm 2 months into this method and finding it to be very effective in preventing all usual symptoms and allowing for a very good sex life:
Method:
- Vitamin B3 (Dose: 1 x tablet of 500mg niacin nicotinamide; Timing: 2-to-6 hours before sex; Source: https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/21113/nature-s-own-vitamin-b3-500mg---vitamin-b---60-tablets)
- Matcha tea (Dose: 1 x glass as per usual strength for your caffeine sensitivity; Timing: Immediately before sex); Source: https://www.t2tea.com/en/au/tea/100-organic-matcha-T110AI012.html)
Results:
- No POIS symptoms noticed immediately after sex nor in the following days.
- Able to actively enjoy sex. E.g. a few times within Mon-Fri and a few times during the weekend.
- Able to concentrate on complex mental tasks and play sport to high intensity levels immediately after sex and in the following days.
Important notes:
- The matcha tea I took includes amino acid L-theanine: "...The combo of caffeine and amino acid L-theanine in matcha buddy up to give you a slower release of energy. This means no caffeine jitters, and also means you can power on for longer."
- Must have B3 tablet and matcha tea before sex. It seems to be a prevention mechanism rather than a treatment. It doesn't work if taken after sex.
- I avoided alcohol and heavy meals in the hours before sex.
Additional notes:
- Daily tablet of Echinacea with Vitamin C. This in itself doesn't prevent POIS symptoms but I believe it reduced my symptoms in the past to a much lesser extent. https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/57027/cenovis-echinacea,-garlic,-zinc-c---contains-vitamin-c---125-tablets
- Diet: Gluten free, mostly vegetarian and some seafood.
- In the last two months I experienced one nasal cold sore. This was quickly resolved with a dose of Famciclovir https://www.yourdiscountchemist.com.au/apo-famciclovir-500mg-tablets-3-famvir-generic.html
- I previously had some success with B3 and green tea [i.e. not the matcha type]. I found it unreliable and often needed to rest for hours after sex.
- Coffee or other teas were also unreliable regardless of dosage and usually resulted in jitters.
- My usual full POIS symptoms were mental and physical types, including: immediate and continuous fatigue - mental, facial and body symptoms - all over muscle and joint tightness, weakness and aches, an all over feeling of inflammation similar to a cold or flu, chills and sweats, horrible mood swings such as agitation and anger, acute sensitivity to light, very poor decision making, short memory, inability to mentally process simple information or carry a conversation, inability to perform basic sequential tasks such as make cereal (e.g. I would often find myself putting away the spoon, bowl or milk before eating the cereal.. or pouring milk into the cereal box). These symptoms would usually last between 3-to-6 days at various intensities. My usual response was to just lie in bed in a dark room and avoid interaction with people.
Notes for additional enjoyment:
- I've found that I can enjoy sex for up to 3 hours using this matcha tea + B3 method in combination with a desensitizing gel/spray (e.g. https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/7920/stud-100-desensitizing-spray-for-men-12g. No POIS symptoms noticed regardless of duration of sexual activity.
- Cardiovascular stamina definitely improves sex duration and enjoyment. Routine high intensity exercises like running, gym workouts and competitive sports have really helped me out.
Hoping to report on continued effectiveness in the coming months.
The other alternative is to reduce histamine production using mast cell stabilisers. Histamine can also be produced by gut bacteria. If that's the problem then treating the bacteria may be the solution. Histamine can be overproduced by the body in conditions such as mastocytosis that I described earlier. In this theory niacin may help reduce the symptoms of histamine release on our cognitive functions by diverting a histamine release into our skin. Niacinamide may stabilise our mast cells.
Niacin and Niacinamide also increase levels of NAD which helps the body remove toxic metabolites of histamine and some other neurotransmitters. (called aldehydes).
GABA has a calming effect on our brains and helps us deal with excess histamine. Testosterone and steroids which reduce inflammation would help reduce the effects of an orgasm.
Methionine and various methyl donors like L-methionine, TMG and SAMe would reduce the amount of histamine over time. To do this they require b vitamins.
It's more complicated than that but there are long posts elsewhere on the forum describing the ideas. There are people who have made huge improvement in dealing with chronic fatigue syndrome by just adding NADH and/or D-Ribose. I hadn't thought of myself as chronically fatigued until I started taking NADH and D-Ribose and realised that there were lots of active things that I used to do that I had stopped because I felt tired. This is not normal for someone in their mid 30s. If you feel tired, don't want to go out etc. that's not normal and it's gotta be put right!
It wasn't always that way but this illness became worse since my late 20s and I think that has a lot to do with a decrease in hormone production and fatigue.
I think the reason why TRT works as a treatment is that POIS is actually something our body is continually fighting, which leads to inflammation and "cortisol steal". Untreated POIS would therefore naturally lower testosterone levels. It may be viral or it may be just a genetic inefficiency but the end result is that we end up being in an "allergic" state. This does not mean that I think anyone is allergic to sperm. It's is 100% known that histamine is released during an orgasm anyway. The allergist I spoke to said she already had women patients with some allergic reactions following orgasm it's just that they're not that severe (but some suffer headaches, some get rashes, signs of nasal allergy etc.). She told me that you don't need an allergy to sperm to produce histamine during an orgasm. A simple google confirms this.
It is also understood that the H3 histamine receptor will inhibit both histamine and the release of other neurotransmitters in the brain
This is why novel drugs like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciproxifan are being produced that threat attention disorders &/ dementia via the H3 receptor.
It has been suggested that testosterone may inhibit the allergic reactions in men so increased testosterone may lower histaminergic reactions but the occasional orgasm related rash or flush in some men does happen. What if POIS is just that but ramped up because we have too much circulating histamine ANYWAY?
The Raising ATP and lowering Histamine path is not a quick fix by any stretch of the imagination. It's giving the body a chance to recover and assisting the body's natural healing processes by giving the cells the thing they most need to heal (energy).
Also, some interesting information and theories at
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1985/pdf/1985-v14n03-p162.pdfSo from reading all this I have the following ideas.
- Increasing methylation seems a very good idea but should probably be supported by b3 (or NADH) to assist in the clearing the aldehyde produced when NMH is deanimated. This should reduce POIS symptoms.
- The main cognitive symptoms may be the result of histamine causing rate limiting on neurotransmitters required for alertness via the H3 receptor action.
There is a medicinal plant called Mangosteen which may reduce PGE2 and histamine
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12230104Information on quercetin and it's anti-histamine and mast cell stabilising properties is here
http://www.bioxtract.com/plant-based-actives/quercetin/index.htmlAs I said before though, niacinamide stabilises mast cells, should reduce mean levels of histamine and improves aldehyde clearance by supporting a reaction with ALDH. There are lots of reasons for the POIS sufferer to consider taking niacinamide if you're not taking NADH or supplementary b3 already. I'd suggest that if you can rule out a fungal infection with your doctor then add the NADH and some D-Ribose every day. Both of those increase energy, decrease fatigue and assist a range of chemical reactions in the body.
It seems to be the most effective of the b3 forms for me anyway. A small amount (just a few mg) seems to go a huge way. Yeah, I think that we should all consider taking niacin or niacinamide daily rather than just on days where we're planning an O. This may yield a bigger long term improvement than just taking niacin on O days. Birkmayer's studies show that NADH can boost the immune system so perhaps it by itself is capable of fighting off a nasty infection but I'm not taking that chance right now. Also, there's no point in chucking down NADH after a lot of garlic as it increases stomach acid and effectively destroys the NADH. As we know, niacin promotes prostaglandin release. The flush may mitigate some PGE2 formation. Non-flush niacinamide wouldn't do this but it would tackle the underlying acetaldehyde problem better at higher dosages. Another great thing about niacinamide. If any of us do thing we have an overrun of fungus in our digestive system (candida, I'm not convinced but it does build up alcohol & acetaldehyde in people with a properly diagnosed infection...) then niacinamide is great for killing the stuff
- Take b3 every day. niacinamide may be best to avoid daily itching (there are other reasons). Also, it may help with the cravings if you've cut down smoking to take niacinamide every day. The idea is that the problem behind POIS would exist in our bodies every day and we'd need supplementary b3 to assist us.
If you can afford it then skip the niacin and try 10mg of NADH every day. I can afford it so I'm going to continue with 10mg of ENADA NADH every day.
(Note, the ENADA stuff is coated such that it is absorbed in your colon, otherwise it's just burned in your stomach acid and it would be of no benefit). Why does niacin work?
Simply, Niacin and Niacinamide are used to make NAD which is a coenzyme used by the body to turn acetaldehyde's into non-toxic substances.
These are combined with acetaldehyde dehydrogenase to make acetaldehyde into safe acetic acid (vinegar). Some researchers have shown that supplementary niacinamide (or precursors) or indeed its related metabolised enzyme (NADH) can improve the efficiency of acetaldehyde clearance in people who have a genetic problem producing "correct" acetaldehyde dehydrogenase (the enzyme that breaks the nasty stuff down)
Why might niacin not be working for me?
You may not be taking enough. If POIS is related to aldehyde poisoning then it is an ongoing problem that is only exacerbated by the chemical cascade following an O. The problem would always exist and you'd need to take niacin or niacinamide every single day. Quantities of at least 200mg / day of niacin depending on age and the severity of POIS, at least until symptoms improve. Niacinamide may be a better option as it can be bought in time release form.
Poll