Nocturnal Emission without POIS

[shahnameh]

Hi all,

So I've realized that when I have nocturnal emissions, I don't have POIS. In fact, I feel great the next day. I'm wondering if this means that my POIS is just psychological. Thoughts?

[mattlambertson]

I never have nocturnal emissions anymore, but when I did, they gave me just as bad POIS.

[firmspear]

My doctor says my P.O.I.S. problems are psychological, and that if I want to treat it will be a long process. I do have to agree with you though, in times past when I did have nocturnal emissions I had no POIS symptoms

[Vincent M]

Most POIS sufferers still get symptoms from nocturnal emissions.

[shahnameh]

Most POIS sufferers still get symptoms from nocturnal emissions.

Yeah, I was worried about that. That means that my problems may just be psychological, in which case, I have no idea how to fix it.

Firmspear - Did your doctor give you any ideas of what that psychological process would be like?

[victor.kons]

I have no POIS after noctural emissons, that happens pretty rare for me, yet I think my pois is not psychological but physical. Let me elaborate .

I was on the treatment for quite a while of my stomach problems. I had droppers every day, for several weeks. When I've got POIS during this time, the doctor had a hard time to make me a dropper, because my pressure jumped high and low and she had to stop droppers because of this and wait for couple of days. Also my heart started to go crazy during this time and she had to stimulate it. Nothing like this happened when I was out of POIS, I was rock-stable. So my POIS symptoms are quite physical.

I have more various other facts that confirm that my POIS is physical, but I think the facts above are just enough to be sure of this.

Victor

[shahnameh]

Interesting. So if your POIS is definitely physical, and POIS does not occur after nocturnal emissions, maybe we can pin POIS to one of the physical differences between nocturnal emissions and regular ejactulation. So, do you know what's physiologically different about NE? My googling hasn't found much.

[victor.kons]

Interesting. So if your POIS is definitely physical, and POIS does not occur after nocturnal emissions, maybe we can pin POIS to one of the physical differences between nocturnal emissions and regular ejactulation. So, do you know what's physiologically different about NE? My googling hasn't found much.

Release of dopamine might be different. I don't feel pleasure after NE. If you do feel sweet pleasure after NE, then you have a dopamine release and hence POIS is triggered

Victor

[victor.kons]

The similair question is whether some POISer have POIS symptoms after arousal or not. Some POIS sufferers have POIS symptoms after arousal, some others do not have. And some POIS sufferers had symptoms after arousal when they were young, but after becoming older stopped to have POIS after arousal. I think the explanation is the release of dopamine. When you are young you have that sweet pleasure feeling after arousal, e.g. it is the feeling of the body releasing the dopamine. But when you become older you stop having that feeling after arousal and stop having POIS symptoms after just arousal too.

Victor

[Vincent M]

The obvious difference between an NE and an ejaculation during the day is that it occurs when you are asleep. During sleep your body is in a healing state, re-balancing neurotransmitters and hormones as it also eliminates inflammation, ect.

This is why I always try to have my ejacs just before a full night's sleep. The reason some don't experience POIS with an NE may be because their POIS symptoms are more easily healed by sleep especially if the orgasm occurs when the body is asleep rather than the sleep healing the body after an orgasm has already taken place.

[Daveman]

The similair question is whether some POISer have POIS symptoms after arousal or not. Some POIS sufferers have POIS symptoms after arousal, some others do not have. And some POIS sufferers had symptoms after arousal when they were young, but after becoming older stopped to have POIS after arousal. I think the explanation is the release of dopamine. When you are young you have that sweet pleasure feeling after arousal, e.g. it is the feeling of the body releasing the dopamine. But when you become older you stop having that feeling after arousal and stop having POIS symptoms after just arousal too.

Victor

Slight change of topic, but I wanted to connect to this dopamine theme.

I've noticed recently that the "sweet pleasure feeling" that comes after sex (with niacin) is like the same warm POIS rush, but as though it were "looked at" with "rose colored glasses". Don't know if you know what I mean, but it seems that the after sex rush that we have with POIS which is pure YUCK, is very similar to the good after sex glow except the dopamine has been stripped out and we are left with only the YUCK part.

The system does that a lot. During exersize, the body starts repairing and taking out the garbage produced by the exercise, which involves histamines and other cruddy feeling stuff, so it counters with "feel good" chemicals to balance of the effect.

The other day I could feel the POIS under there, yet it was warm and cozy and didn't feel bad. I noticed that it felt almost exactly like the usual warm sex rush that I used to have when I was normal.

Does anybody have a clue what I'm talking about?

[Chris]

I just wanted to add that i also dont have POIS symptoms after a nocturnal emission..And that made me thought if this is a psychological problem and then i think again that if it was a psychological problem then it wouldnt last 2 weeks as it lasts for me..But then again i want to share with you an experience,one year ago when i had a nocturnal emission my mind was so believing the idea that the POIS symptoms will show and i was so afraid that the POIS symptoms indeed show up but it lasted only a day..The next nocturnal emission i had, there were no symptoms because i played it very cool and calm and that lead me to the conclusion that sometimes your brain can trigger the symptoms if you worry too much..but again not for 2 weeks as it happens in an O..very weird stuff..

[chen1995]

sometimes yes sometimes no but yes in general

[Quantum]

Hi everyone,

Interesting, the fact that for some of you, too, POIS acute phase symptoms are milder following a NE compared to a 'waking state' O. I have just found this forum last week, so first time ever i can 'compare notes' with anyboby else, about any aspect of POIS. 

After 36 years of POIS, i had plenty of time to notice that for me, POIS acute phase is shorter and less debilitating following a NE rather than following an ejaculation while having sex with my wife or after masturbation.  I also had plenty of time to figure out why this happens in my case.   I have identified two reasons. The first is that when i wake up after a NE, I already had some sleep to recover. Second, also important but less obvious, being conscious of an upcoming ejaculation will trigger in me some anxiety or fear, even if I am not aware of this anxiety ( the signs may be masked by my arousal state).  This is rather a normal conditioning to have developed a certain fear of an upcoming ejaculation, when each and every ejaculations I had in my life led me to feel ill afterward. On the physiological level, this fear and anxiety is producing acetylcholine (ACh) in my body - that's the main neurotransmitter of the parasympathetic system, which is, for the sake of simplicity,  the braking part of our autonomous nervous system. Too much ACh, and in broader terms an over-reaction of the parasympathetic system, is what causes a vasovagal response ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasovagal_response#Pathophysiology ), As I have a very high vagal tone in general, I easily produce tons of ACh and have strong vasovagal response. The relation with POIS is that  ACh/vasovagal effects in the body overlap with and add up to many of my POIS symptoms, including feeling drained, anxiety, loss of confidence, social phobia, irritability, digestive and abdominal discomfort, etc, and, in particular in my case, hypotension and its related effects - dizziness, intolerance to exercise, orthostatic hypotension (head rush), less concentration, headache, nausea, fatigue, hard to stand for extended period of time, cold sweat,...).  When vasovagal effect creates an additive synergy with POIS effects, my POIS acute phase is longer and symptoms are more severe.

Having had vasovagal response in other situations than upcoming ejaculation ( I have a long history of anxiety),  I know how a vasovagal episode feels like when on its own.  I also noticed that when having sex without 'advanced notice', half-awake, in the middle of the night, it will produce a POIS acute phase less severe than when I am fully awake, but worst than after a NE.

Some POIS sufferers here experiment no difference in their POIS symptoms, be it after a NE or otherwise.  It is maybe because their POIS symptoms are so severe that they completely dwarf the ACh effects. It may also be because their vagal tone is not as high, they may be not as 'control freaks' as those using the break pedal too much in life, like i used to do.  I have learned to let go, now, as one of the many, many little things that helped me reduce my POIS symptoms a bit. 

Those POIS-induced vasovagal episodes are, for me, a psychological complication of POIS.

Maybe this will not ring any bell for you, but hopefully some members will take something out of what i have shared, and that's why this forum is for ! 


i keep the pace and continue to absorb many years of comments and sharing that have been posted here, and I am learning everyday - and experimenting as well too. Thanks again for this forum and to all of you sharing here,

Quantum

[Colm]

Very interesting read Quantum,

Do you think that the ACh and Vasavagal element that you mention, and the reaction of our sympathetic nervous system can be positively impacted by the current research project and its neurological focus ?

As I am there with you on the almost lifetime experience with this, am still trying to get more clear on all the science shared here and at the other NSF forum.

[Quantum]

Hi Colm,

Thanks for your comment.

Among all the threads I have read so far on this forum, I didn't come across anything talking about this research project you mention, so I have no idea for now.  In the meantime, with all the useful information available here, like case reports, products tried with the outcome on different symptoms, interesting observations about specific POIS-related experiences, etc, I am beginning to have a new, more global perspective on POIS I couldn't have had with only my own experience.

Do you have a link related to this research so I can read about it?

[demografx]

To see the other site's search results (since 2007), copy and paste the following into your Google search box "as is" (keep spaces/no spaces intact):

nocturnal emission pois site:www.thenakedscientists.com

[demografx]

Hi Quantum ,

Welcome to POISCenter!
 



Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

We are proud to announce our first POIS research grant, awarded in December, 2013, to be managed for us by the National Organization for Rare Disorders (NORD). Grant awarded to:

Barry Komisaruk, PhD (Principal Investigator), Distinguished Professor of Psychology
Rutgers University
Newark, New Jersey, USA
Study title: Is POIS a Case of Vagal Dystonia? -- An fMRI Brain Activity Analysis

More about our Grant:
You can start here, continue reading following pages and other forum threads:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=426.msg11042#msg11042

Click here to see Mat780's excellent YouTube POIS Channel.   Mat's YouTube videos include (1) our great new April 12 POIS TV Documentary. A must-see. And (2) The Learning Channel documentary, featuring our forum member "Animus".

Click here to see The POIS reddit post.  Outsiders (non-POISers) spontaneously gifted NORD's POIS Research Grant $1,000+ from this reddit post. Thanks to "mellivora" and "CertainlyPOIS"!

Our POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
Just click here first, and then look for "CHAT" button towards top of page, 6th button to your right!

Our POIS Forum - architectural genius: "Daveman" - for detailed subject-by-subject discussion.
http://www.POISCenter.com/forums/index.php

Our POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

The POIS Information Website is home to the POIS Forum Compendium, written by "Pyropeach", and contains theories already discussed here and treatments that have both worked and failed.

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g


Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome "POIS": Case report

Authors:
Abdalla M Attia*, Magda H Al-Ziny, Hossam A Yasien
*Corresponding author: Andrology Unit, Minoufiya University, Shibin El Kom, Eygpt

For more info, check out emi_b's  SMF POIS thread:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=191.0;topicseen


POIS Research Studies available Upon Request:

1. and 2. POIS Research Studies, 2011

These 2 papers reveal Dr. Waldinger's POIS autoimmune hypothesis and suggest one possible avenue of treatment.

3. First POIS Research Study, 2002

We have a copy of the first formal medical investigation on POIS by Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger,MD, Ph.D., and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

   
4. Recent POIS Research Study, 2010

CASE REPORT
Postorgasm Illness Syndrome - A Spectrum of Illnesses
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg316781#msg316781


5. British Medical Journal Case Report, 2010

Case study by Dr. Selwyn Dexter of a patient with a headache-featured POIS symptom treated with progesterone/norethisterone.
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2010/bcr.10.2009.2359.short?rss=1


How to get any or all of the above 5 studies: send the Administrators "demografx" or "daveman" a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (e.g., jim@abc.com) and we'll send you back the PDF(s).

To send a Private Message, click on messages link at the very top of this page. Then click "Send Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapeutic community. All of this information can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT 'ALL IN YOUR HEAD'! "





It can be very  helpful to you when dealing with medical professionals to point this out. Click to see

POIS' official listing, as recognized by the
National Institutes for Health (NIH), Office of Rare Diseases Research:

And in Europe: Orphanet now lists POIS on their website. - Click here.

The Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.) Forum is listed in the organization database of the National Organization for Rare Disorders (NORD) -- http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php.  The link for this, through their home page, is --
http://rarediseases.org/rare-disease-information/organizations/byID/3136/viewDetail.


POIS also appears in credible medical sources such as the Journal of Sexual Medicine (Dr. Waldinger's study), British Medical Journal (Dr. Selwyn Dexter's study), and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For over 5 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 200 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, research on an additional 200 sufferers elsewhere on the internet, plus our pages have been read nearly 2,000,000 times. Not bad for a rare malady.

Show some of this to your doctor - with pride. Chances are, you know far more about POIS than s/he does. Don't be intimidated by fancy diplomas. It's almost impossible for any one doctor to know much about POIS before you walk into his/her office. Unfortunately, it's up to you to educate them. And if you happen to find yourself with a disagreeable "student"-doctor (you're the teacher), find another doctor. Quickly!

SEARCH THE NSF FORUM ARCHIVES WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of NSF data: more than 5 years' worth of posts (over  10,000 posts!) from 200+ Forum members, and an additional 200 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
nocturnal emission POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 740 results came up for "nocturnal emission" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

[Quantum]

Hi Quantum ,

Welcome to POISCenter!
 

Thanks for the warm welcome Demographx

And thanks also for all the useful links, and for the tip on how to search the NSF archives.... I was reluctant to use it because scrolling though hundred of pages is not very efficient.  But now, this will help a lot in getting useful data in order to verify - or not - some of the hypothesis i make about any particular POIS aspect.  This all help in my current work at integrating all the new info I get about any POIS aspect into a comprehensive, global view of POIS.

Thanks again!

[demografx]

Looking forward to your sharing some global findings along the way!