Author Topic: POIS is gone!  (Read 3043 times)

Mushnikk

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #75 on: February 13, 2021, 10:14:41 AM »
Unfortunately POIS is no indication for FMT. Perhaps there are commercial labs out there providing this but I doubt it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/fecal-microbe-transplants-help-cancer-patients-respond-to-immunotherapy-and-shrink-tumors.82904/

Multiple FMT threads can be found on poiscenter (which could be merged).

As I perceived it many POISers also have IBS: perhaps at some point it becomes available for them through insurance.

Muon

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #76 on: February 13, 2021, 10:23:02 AM »
As I perceived it many POISers also have IBS: perhaps at some point it becomes available for them through insurance.
That's my observation as well. Study from Natale et al. showed that 3,3% have IBS under comorbidities. When I'm polling that number is much higher although sample size is small. There are a few case reports containing patients with IBS.

Edit: I believe Vandemolen chased for FMT but was denied due to the lack of an indication.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 10:28:02 AM by Muon »

Mushnikk

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2021, 01:06:42 PM »
As I perceived it many POISers also have IBS: perhaps at some point it becomes available for them through insurance.
That's my observation as well. Study from Natale et al. showed that 3,3% have IBS under comorbidities. When I'm polling that number is much higher although sample size is small. There are a few case reports containing patients with IBS.

Edit: I believe Vandemolen chased for FMT but was denied due to the lack of an indication.

And there are not private clinics yet where you could pay for a FMT yourself? Actually just found a clinic in Leipzig, Germany via Google.

devastated

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2021, 03:17:56 AM »
For what is worth, I also suffer from IBS. I believe the vagus nerve is definitely involved in this mechanism.


As I perceived it many POISers also have IBS: perhaps at some point it becomes available for them through insurance.

drop247

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2021, 08:16:18 PM »
Oh man, Sorry to hear that John.  I still think it is gut related (especially since while on Pepto Bismol for two weeks I had zero symptoms, and you mentioned something similar.)

I?m doing an experiment by taking some Bismuth Subgallate, to see if I have the same disappearance of symptoms... to me, that would rule out the salicylate (aspirin) in Pepto Bismol, and most likely mean that the Bismuth action in the stomach is the main actor.  If that works it at least hints to me that it can be fixed by some means of altering the gut (not sure what yet though).

Will update once that experiment is complete.

Any update on this? I'm still getting significant benefit from Pepto-bismol while in a POIS state. I'm awaiting a breath test for SIBO to see if I have a problem with hydrogen sulfide.

Muon

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2021, 11:19:42 AM »
Well, about 4 months ago I came down with a salmonella infection and got quite sick. I had a fever for a few days and felt very miserable. I had diarrhea and lots of it. Whatever was coming out of me was black and disgusting, perhaps blood in the diarrhea. After I recovered from the fever the diarrhea persisted and I had to go on antibiotics (azithromycin) to kill off most of the salmonella.

Discussion:

Irritable Bowel Syndrome caused by MCAS? New report.

"A proportion of patients will experience SIBO after a severe bout of food poisoning either from Campylbacteor, E Coli, Shingella or Salmonella. These bacteria create a bacterial toxin called Cytolethal Distending Toxin (CdtB) with can lead to autoimmunity with anti-vincolin antibodies developing.

the anti-vincolin antibodies which cause a loss of function of the Migrating Motor Complex and also nerve damage which will result in bacterial overgrowth
"

Charles_b

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2021, 03:03:58 PM »
Oh man, Sorry to hear that John.  I still think it is gut related (especially since while on Pepto Bismol for two weeks I had zero symptoms, and you mentioned something similar.)


Will update once that experiment is complete.

Any update on this? I'm still getting significant benefit from Pepto-bismol while in a POIS state. I'm awaiting a breath test for SIBO to see if I have a problem with hydrogen sulfide.

I didn?t do the full two-week test due to life being a little crazy right now, but I did take two doses after O (each dose a couple of hours apart), and was able to sleep during a night that normally would have been awful for me.  Next day was a little rough, but I?d say it knocked the severity of symptoms down by 60%.

What Hydrogen Sulfide SIBO test are you using?  I?ve read that they didn?t exist for a long time but some new ones are under development.  I also am curious about this as high sulfur foods like broccoli absolutely destroy me (even in very small amounts).

drop247

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2021, 05:03:59 PM »

I didn?t do the full two-week test due to life being a little crazy right now, but I did take two doses after O (each dose a couple of hours apart), and was able to sleep during a night that normally would have been awful for me.  Next day was a little rough, but I?d say it knocked the severity of symptoms down by 60%.

What Hydrogen Sulfide SIBO test are you using?  I?ve read that they didn?t exist for a long time but some new ones are under development.  I also am curious about this as high sulfur foods like broccoli absolutely destroy me (even in very small amounts).

The TrioSmart SIBO breath test tests for Hydrogen Sulfide as well as Hydrogen and Methane
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 10:49:27 AM by drop247 »

BoneBroth

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2021, 09:27:16 AM »
John21, what was your diet composed of between the improvement and the setback?

Now, I always seem to get heavy POIS symptoms after periods of bloating and bad smelly gas. I think this happens when I eat more starch (potatoe, bread etc), milk, yoghurt, sugar/syrup, ice cream and some vegetables. In the beginning of this year I experiened the best period so far in my POIS history, and i think that is because of that my FODMAP-protocol was giving effects, in combination of a liver-detox-tincture. I think a healthy bile production is of very importance for killing off the bad bacteria! and when I have POIS the poop becomes yellowis - a sign of low bile (the liver gets inflamed during POIS and cannot produce as much bile).

I think many cases of POIS can be boiled down to the following:
1. Long time stress messes with the gut on many ways: It lowers stommach acid production (HCL). When less acid realeases in to the intestine the bad bacteria can grow. Stress also slows down the bowel movement which gives time for bacteria to grow and produce gas. Raw material for hormones cannot be absorbed in the upper intestine (Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, Vitamin A, Vitamin E, Iron, Vitamin B1 (Thiamine), Vitamin B3 (Nicotinamide/Niacin).
2. Food hight in carohydryte, starch, fruit sugar and sugar favour the bad bactera and aggravates the hormonal imbalances (yes, no fruits! except possibly small berrries).
3. Bad sleeping habits, sedimentary lifestyle and low sun exposure messes with the circadian ryth (watching computerscreens too late) and aggravates hormonal imbalances.
4. On top of this comes orgasm - the releasing factor for many POIS:ers. Orgasm create an inflammation (When you have hormonal imbalances there are not enought antiinflammatory substances beeing released on orgasm) that do much harm in the body: it weakens all organs but specifically the walls of the intestines so they leak and cause auto-inflammatory symptoms (POIS), it also adds to the vicous circle by weakening the enzyme producing organs so proteins are not beeing properly digested, it weakens the liver so there are not enough bile to surpress the bad bacteria in the upper intestine. Bile is essential for the detoxification of the liver, as well as for the digestion and absorption of fats and fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K). Bile is required for vitamin A. Proper bile output is important for preventing SIBO. Bile also have an anti-inflammatory effects. A healthy liver make up to one litre of bile every day!

The sollution? Exactly what John21 did! Get rid of the bad bacteria and get on a diet that support the non-gas-producing bacteria (FODMAP or carnivore diet). This might have immidiate results. But you cannot go back to the "bad diet" before your gut has healed 100%, and that can only be accomplished be reducing the stress. I don't think you have to work with a multitude of supplements, pharmaeuticals or testosterone patches for handeling POIS if you do the other things. It will just clear out by it self. However, adding the missing vitamins/minerals might be a good idea, and any supplement that are good for the intestine, such as gutamine, aloe vera, bonebroth or mangosteen (there were some member here who reported improvement after trying mangosteen juice).
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 09:39:26 AM by BoneBroth »

Muon

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2021, 09:43:36 AM »
Poor genetics. Maybe get a breath test John.

Cluudee Disappear

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2021, 09:34:21 AM »
John21, what was your diet composed of between the improvement and the setback?

Now, I always seem to get heavy POIS symptoms after periods of bloating and bad smelly gas. I think this happens when I eat more starch (potatoe, bread etc), milk, yoghurt, sugar/syrup, ice cream and some vegetables. In the beginning of this year I experiened the best period so far in my POIS history, and i think that is because of that my FODMAP-protocol was giving effects, in combination of a liver-detox-tincture. I think a healthy bile production is of very importance for killing off the bad bacteria! and when I have POIS the poop becomes yellowis - a sign of low bile (the liver gets inflamed during POIS and cannot produce as much bile).

I think many cases of POIS can be boiled down to the following:
1. Long time stress messes with the gut on many ways: It lowers stommach acid production (HCL). When less acid realeases in to the intestine the bad bacteria can grow. Stress also slows down the bowel movement which gives time for bacteria to grow and produce gas. Raw material for hormones cannot be absorbed in the upper intestine (Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, Vitamin A, Vitamin E, Iron, Vitamin B1 (Thiamine), Vitamin B3 (Nicotinamide/Niacin).
2. Food hight in carohydryte, starch, fruit sugar and sugar favour the bad bactera and aggravates the hormonal imbalances (yes, no fruits! except possibly small berrries).
3. Bad sleeping habits, sedimentary lifestyle and low sun exposure messes with the circadian ryth (watching computerscreens too late) and aggravates hormonal imbalances.
4. On top of this comes orgasm - the releasing factor for many POIS:ers. Orgasm create an inflammation (When you have hormonal imbalances there are not enought antiinflammatory substances beeing released on orgasm) that do much harm in the body: it weakens all organs but specifically the walls of the intestines so they leak and cause auto-inflammatory symptoms (POIS), it also adds to the vicous circle by weakening the enzyme producing organs so proteins are not beeing properly digested, it weakens the liver so there are not enough bile to surpress the bad bacteria in the upper intestine. Bile is essential for the detoxification of the liver, as well as for the digestion and absorption of fats and fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K). Bile is required for vitamin A. Proper bile output is important for preventing SIBO. Bile also have an anti-inflammatory effects. A healthy liver make up to one litre of bile every day!

The sollution? Exactly what John21 did! Get rid of the bad bacteria and get on a diet that support the non-gas-producing bacteria (FODMAP or carnivore diet). This might have immidiate results. But you cannot go back to the "bad diet" before your gut has healed 100%, and that can only be accomplished be reducing the stress. I don't think you have to work with a multitude of supplements, pharmaeuticals or testosterone patches for handeling POIS if you do the other things. It will just clear out by it self. However, adding the missing vitamins/minerals might be a good idea, and any supplement that are good for the intestine, such as gutamine, aloe vera, bonebroth or mangosteen (there were some member here who reported improvement after trying mangosteen juice).

I'm new here. After reading around, mainly on this thread but several others and suffering for YEARS (and having bad side effects yesterday), I tried two Pepto chewable tablets after reading around and my symptoms disappeared within the hour. This has never happened to me before. Never have I just been able to clear up what feels like 100% of my symptoms.

This whole thread and the quoted post I have here makes complete sense. I'm switching to Carnivore, I'll make a post about it later introducing myself.

I've got some Pepto, eggs, ground beef and hopefully some steaks from Costco. Let's see what we can do and make it last.

Edit: Meat was awful on my system, going towards low FODMAP with Huel Black and taking Pepto chewables once a day to maintain.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 06:33:36 PM by Cluudee Disappear »

John21

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2021, 11:08:56 AM »
John21, what was your diet composed of between the improvement and the setback?


I ate my typical diet, which I consider to be healthy: vegetables, greens, beans, grains, nuts, low meat, low added fat

John21

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Re: POIS is NOT gone!
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2021, 11:13:55 AM »
Any way to change the subject in a post? I'd like to insert a "NOT", lol.

BoneBroth

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2021, 12:02:03 PM »
Beans and grains contains FODMAP, and many vegetables (potatoe, rice, pasta etc). Possibly that food repopulated your gut with the bad bacteria again and there also is some factor that allow them to do this, low bile, low stommach acid (stress). I belive POIS is pro-bad bacteria.

John21

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Re: POIS is gone!
« Reply #89 on: March 05, 2021, 05:25:03 AM »
Beans and grains contains FODMAP, and many vegetables (potatoe, rice, pasta etc). Possibly that food repopulated your gut with the bad bacteria again and there also is some factor that allow them to do this, low bile, low stommach acid (stress). I belive POIS is pro-bad bacteria.

Interesting. I think my diet is healthy but I can see how it could fan the flames in an abnormal situation like low HCL. Niacin (well known in the POIS community) can apparently stimulate HCL production. I'm thinking I will try some digestive bitters before meals as a trial, as that is a gentle way to increase HCL. I have read that dandelion is one of the ingredients in bitter herb tinctures. That is interesting as I remember trying it in the past and feeling really well on it. If I remember right I only discontinued it because it eventually caused me to be constipated. I know I eat too fast so I can work on that too as it can cause lower HCL and less than optimum digestion.