Key experience on my POIS - important for nanna1 and POIS scientists

[swell]

So I have been actively experimenting with various many compounds, after getting enormously encouraged on my long-awaited POIS breakthrough.  I believe I can induce POIS on purpose now.  I think my body's detoxification process plays a key role in my POIS symptoms (photo attached).  I learnt a few things:

a) Bio-perine is not good for me.  About after using it consistently for 2 weeks (10mg) alongside green tea extract (which works great for me), I developed a "milder" form of POIS - skin and brain symptoms.  I believe this points out that I have a delicate detox mechanism.  Bioperine makes chemical compounds more bio-available by keeping them around for longer through inhibiting Phase 2 detox.  So for me, in 2 weeks my detoxification process dropped to the extent where I developed POIS.  After stopping Bio-perine in next 4-5 days recovered back from POIS, despite daily e's (ejaculations).

b) More importantly, after taking Molybdenum 300mg (which is supposed to be a miracle cure for detoxification issues) for 3 days, I developed a VERY serious case of POIS skin + brain.  Tragically, Molybdenum has created some troubling symptoms for me even after stopping it.  For one, I am getting severe super itchy hives erupting everywhere on my body, disappearing then suddenly and then erupting again ... its like a hide n seek.   
Ref: https://ard.bmj.com/content/annrheumdis/53/6/403.full.pdf
I need to study additional science to figure this Molybdenum issue out.  I do love taking NAC (Cysteine) supplement.  However I am worried that maybe Molybdenum and NAC possibly react with each other considering my impaired methylation genotype - MTRR, rs1801394(G;G).

If anyone has experienced something like this or any inputs, please share.

[swell]

could not attach in previous due to size restriction.

[demografx]

Thanks, swell

[Journey]

You say POIS is due to detox?

[swell]

Thanks Dem.  Would you know what is the best method to follow up with threads one posts into.  I often post and then afterwards I get lost in the maze and forget the threads I ever posted into.

Thanks, swell

[Muon]

Thanks Dem.  Would you know what is the best method to follow up with threads one posts into.  I often post and then afterwards I get lost in the maze and forget the threads I ever posted into.

Thanks, swell

Go to your profile ---> summary (or click on a person's username) ---> show posts at the left side. It will show a history of your posts. You can also subscribe to threads by clicking notify below, right next to the reply button.

[swell]

No I say no to that Journey.  I am merely reporting "an observation" that after 100% managing my POIS, I have observed that I start to fall back on all my progress when I include the above mentioned compounds.  This could be important for medical scientists who are striding in the POIS area, nanna1 in particular, since I have been intrigued by his theories on POIS and his stack has been an impetus in my own breakthrough. 

I am a very detailed person, and I dont make observations after one or two incidents.  Further medical science also has the cause-effect paradigm, so detoxification is I think an "effect" rather than the cause.  I personally think we POIS'ers primary issue is a kind of metabolic stagnation, where our bodies are running as if we are terribly scarce in fuel/nutrients when in fact we are not.  I think our bodies are not producing enzymes that are necessary for us to be in best health, digestion of macro nutrients, particularly protein/fat/carb etc and shocking our metabolism has been helpful to me, such as natural dissected thyroid in my case (which I no longer take).  I believe methylation is closely related to metabolism as well.

I am very curious, what has been observation of other POIS'ers with Molybdenum and Piperine use.

You say POIS is due to detox?

[swell]

Ah, I will start using this tip, thanks.

Go to your profile ---> summary (or click on a person's username) ---> show posts at the left side. It will show a history of your posts. You can also subscribe to threads by clicking notify below, right next to the reply button.

[dizzy]

Funny, as molybdenum seems to do me well (I frequently use 150mcg - 300mcg at night). Helps me with headaches and head tensions. I'm not sure why.

But I know that molybdenum is used in sulfite reactions in the body. It would be interesting to know if foods which contain sulfites also affect your condition (like white wine, or pickled cocktail onions).

[swell]

Dizzy its interesting you bring 'sulfites' up.  I do am very allergic to pickled food (anything pickled as well to vinegar (is white wine similar to vinegar? since I have never consumed wine or beer so I dont know).  I immediately get a sore throat and even fever.  I have interpreted my reaction to vinegar and pickled objects as translating to histamine intolerance maybe.  And whenever I google sulfite rich foods, I see a long list of everyday items that I have no allergies against.  In my daily diet, cooked onions are a staple.  Can you shed more light on this, as maybe I am missing some aspect on the sulfite reactions you mention, thanks.

Funny, as molybdenum seems to do me well (I frequently use 150mcg - 300mcg at night). Helps me with headaches and head tensions. I'm not sure why.

But I know that molybdenum is used in sulfite reactions in the body. It would be interesting to know if foods which contain sulfites also affect your condition (like white wine, or pickled cocktail onions).

[Clues]

Dizzy its interesting you bring 'sulfites' up.  I do am very allergic to pickled food

Both sulphites and and fermented foods can be problematic wrt mast cell activation disorders IIRC. Sulphites can trigger mast cell activation, and fermented foods contain a lot of histamine.

[dizzy]

In my daily diet, cooked onions are a staple.  Can you shed more light on this, as maybe I am missing some aspect on the sulfite reactions you mention, thanks.

Hi swell, no I don't have much more info, unfortunately. Here's a page on molybdenum that might be useful. It also lists the other reactions (besides the sulfite oxidation) in which molybdenum plays a role.

https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/minerals/molybdenum

[demografx]

Thanks Demo. Would you know what is the best method to follow up with threads one posts into.  I often post and then afterwards I get lost in the maze and forget the threads I ever posted into.

Thanks, swell

Go to your profile ---> summary (or click on a person's username) ---> show posts at the left side. It will show a history of your posts. You can also subscribe to threads by clicking notify below, right next to the reply button.

Thanks, Muon.

[Journey]

No I say no to that Journey.  I am merely reporting "an observation" that after 100% managing my POIS, I have observed that I start to fall back on all my progress when I include the above mentioned compounds.  This could be important for medical scientists who are striding in the POIS area, nanna1 in particular, since I have been intrigued by his theories on POIS and his stack has been an impetus in my own breakthrough. 

I am a very detailed person, and I dont make observations after one or two incidents.  Further medical science also has the cause-effect paradigm, so detoxification is I think an "effect" rather than the cause.  I personally think we POIS'ers primary issue is a kind of metabolic stagnation, where our bodies are running as if we are terribly scarce in fuel/nutrients when in fact we are not.  I think our bodies are not producing enzymes that are necessary for us to be in best health, digestion of macro nutrients, particularly protein/fat/carb etc and shocking our metabolism has been helpful to me, such as natural dissected thyroid in my case (which I no longer take).  I believe methylation is closely related to metabolism as well.

I am very curious, what has been observation of other POIS'ers with Molybdenum and Piperine use.

You say POIS is due to detox?

I had a multivitamin with Molybdenum don't recall any change. You may be right with bodies acting as if we are scarce in fuel even though I've grown well pubertywise I feel as some parts of my body are thinner than they could be and some could've grown more e.g. thin wrists maybe it's genetics then again when I was ill with cold neck I had window in which I had 1 nightfall 2 orgasms 0POIS as if being ill disabled it so idk.

[berlin1984]

I am merely reporting "an observation" that after 100% managing my POIS, I have observed that I start to fall back on all my progress when I include the above mentioned compounds.

Sorry if this is a duplicate question, but can you link to the thread where you describe what you are doing/taking to manage the symptoms?
I remember you wrote something somewhere abour growth factors but I can't find it now.

I think my body's detoxification process plays a key role in my POIS symptoms

Just wanted to mention that I also think it's somehow detox related. Orgasm activates something in the body (latent infection) (combined with immune dysfunction?) that combined with genetic factors impairing detox leads to symptoms.
(But that's just a guess based on the theories thrown around here..)

General loud thoughts:
So there is different "attack" points to combat the POIS, some are at the orgasm source (Niacin,Fenugreek,Pepto Bismol, Indometacin?) somehow, others are more at the end (improving detox through massages,breathing,diet,....)
The 100% ideal to achieve is the thing that nanna1 claims: Turn off POIS by improving your immune system and removing latent infections from your body (my summary, not his)

[swell]

Ah, so the relationship would be from a pois perspective:

Sulphite rich diet > can cause Mast cell degranulation > releases excess Histamine > excess Histamine in tissue level causes allergic response in skin + tissue inflammation (nasal congestion specially)

Both sulphites and and fermented foods can be problematic wrt mast cell activation disorders IIRC. Sulphites can trigger mast cell activation, and fermented foods contain a lot of histamine.

[swell]

I very much grapple with statements like "improving immune system".  How do you improve it, since I find there to be opposing/contradicting information on that from science papers I read.  Granted I am a noob on this, but I believe it is critical to understand this as while some vaccinations play a helpful role while some could very well play an overall extremely counter-productive  role - since they are pulling our immune system in often times contradictory directions.   The key building blocks of immune system:

INNATE (Macrophages, Dendritic cells, Mast cells, NK cells)
ADAPTIVE > (Th1 CD4 response -> promotes Cytotoxic CD8 response) OR (Th2 CD4 response > promotes B cells > promote antibodies)
ADAPTIVE > T Reg cells (CD4)

The thing I fear the most in life is "nasal congestion" (nothing trumps that).  I took AHCC (a potent immune stimulatory supplement) for 2 months with great faith, but those 2 months were totally miserable for me.  Not just nasal congestion specially while sleeping but also a 2 month-long POIS episode - PURE TORTURE.  Upon stopping AHCC, my 2 month long POIS and nasal congestion torture subsided fortunately.  I struggle to find what exactly AHCC stimulates.  Some research point out to Innate system components only including NK cells.  However some papers point out that it stimulates Innate + Adaptive including Th1 AND Th2, ALL at the same time.  Granted I am a noob on this, and I wish to understand better, but this is my biggest beef against immune system knowledge that currently prevails.  I am skeptic of papers that indicate AHCC stimulates "everything" as what I understand Th1 vs Th2 is a question of dominance of one or the other and not both.  About myself, I do know very well that my immune system is severely atypical, but I struggle to point out the specifics and I find scant if any info on it.

That said, I am intrigued about latent viruses theory of nanna1.  But I also fear that some latent virus may cause less harm if left as they are, vs taking them on by stimulating the immune system (specially stimulating it half-baked).  There is no science I find on this topic. 

That said, having shunned docs for a very long time, I am considering getting various blood etc tests, since now I have conquered POIS on my own, my overall health is considerably better and I think I can now at this stage benefit from knowing some quantitative biomarkers of my health to improve further.  So if anyone has helpful tips on the most valuable name of tests that I can ask the doc.

I am merely reporting "an observation" that after 100% managing my POIS, I have observed that I start to fall back on all my progress when I include the above mentioned compounds.

Sorry if this is a duplicate question, but can you link to the thread where you describe what you are doing/taking to manage the symptoms?
I remember you wrote something somewhere abour growth factors but I can't find it now.

I think my body's detoxification process plays a key role in my POIS symptoms

Just wanted to mention that I also think it's somehow detox related. Orgasm activates something in the body (latent infection) (combined with immune dysfunction?) that combined with genetic factors impairing detox leads to symptoms.
(But that's just a guess based on the theories thrown around here..)

General loud thoughts:
So there is different "attack" points to combat the POIS, some are at the orgasm source (Niacin,Fenugreek,Pepto Bismol, Indometacin?) somehow, others are more at the end (improving detox through massages,breathing,diet,....)
The 100% ideal to achieve is the thing that nanna1 claims: Turn off POIS by improving your immune system and removing latent infections from your body (my summary, not his)

[swell]

Sorry I dont know where I have posted what   To answer your query, my key interventions have been Dietary (today) as well Supplements (semi-regular/sporadic use):

Dietary (Regular, daily)
- High fat, moderate Protein, low Carbohydrates
I go to: https://www.nutritionvalue.org/nutritioncalculator.php
And ensure I'm meeting RDA values for Essential fatty acids, Essential Amino acids - key growth factors in diet.
Right before meal: Kidney extract (to manage histamine)
After meal:  Proteolytic enzyme that has Chymotrypsin + Trypsin (for odd reasons I do not understand, enzymes without these 2 do not work as well for me).  Bile Acids (for fat digestion - for odd reasons, other typical fat enzymes do not work on me). Okra extract (I think this also aids to excrete certain immune antagonizing compounds)
// Point of contention - no doc answers it for me.  While Trypsin really works for me, however my cautious nature makes me question trypsin, as I find 'tryptase' to be central to viral tropism i.e. multiplication.  Maybe that is the reason, a typical digestive enzyme does not include it?

Supplements (some regular some Irregular):
1. Beef thyroid glandular (provides T3 hormone, growth factor):  I used it for a month daily and now use them sparingly and in tiny micro dose only.  For some reasons this had a profound a huge major impact on my breakthrough.  Even though I am very detailed and hyper-sensitive to stimuli, before T3, I felt no supplement or diet used to have any whatsoever measurable effects on me - positive or negative.  I felt my body, my metabolic system was intensely sluggish/stagnant, it did not matter what I put in it.  Things dramatically changed after this   For one, my body temperatures rose from 95.x to 98.x. 
Benefit:  Each day, I felt my skin improved, hair improved, mental functioning improved - from choppy to silky smooth.  When I took Vitamin C, I clearly felt its effect.  Various supplements, I could point out whether they were helping me or not helping me.  Life turned full of colors.
Not good:  I noticed over the course of a month that my heart rate continued increasing as well my Blood pressure (which used to be around 100/60 in day) now started climbing.  I stopped the thyroid glandular when my heart rate once exceeded 100 - tachycardia territory, my BP started hovering around 120/85.  This was to me an indication, that continuing on this path is now risk that is bigger than reward.  Fortunately I do not use it now, but the benefits have continued, though now my body temps range 96.x to 97.x 

2. Vitamin C, about 1g on and off.  Note: on most supplements I use base powders, so dosages are plus/minus.
3. Quercetin about 500 mg on and off
4. Luteolin about 250 mg on and off.
5. Apigenin, I dont know how much, on and off.
6. Zinc, Vitamin D3, Vitamin B's on and off.
7. Vitamin A - I am cautious on dose:  Since T3 usage, it has a profound effect on my immune system, and I get Nasal congestion (though without POIS) whenever take a supplement that has high dose VitA.
// Point of contention for me, docs dont answer:  I find Vitamin A effect paradoxical.  Retinoic acid encourages TReg response, i.e. subduing T helper immune function.  And here I find it beneficial (in low dose only) since it aggravates Nasal congestion. I really wish I could find an accurate pathogenesis of nasal congestions
8. TMG - try to take 1.5g daily.  I feel TMG over a longer period of time, works similar to T3.  It seems to ignite my metabolic furnace, though for odd reasons, it does not have a 'smooth' effect on my brain, and I feel I start becoming a mean person .   
9. SamE - try to take 200mg daily.  It shows its effect over a longer period of time.  Effects on brain are similar to T3 - "smooth".  I really like it, sadly its pricey, so I dont have it always on hand.
10. Carbonyl Iron, 8mg daily, sometimes increase to 16mg.  I feel very guilty of taking Iron, since my blood tests shows Iron to be normal.  But I can attest, I have countless times experimented, without taking Iron, I get headaches.  Daily Iron prevents them.  Does anyone have explanation, as to what is going on?
11. Glutathione (liposomal) - sometimes.
12.  Butyric acid - 2/3 times a week.

[Journey]

Sorry I dont know where I have posted what   To answer your query, my key interventions have been Dietary (today) as well Supplements (sporadic use):

Dietary (Regular, daily)
- High fat, moderate Protein, low Carbohydrates
I go to: https://www.nutritionvalue.org/nutritioncalculator.php
And ensure I'm meeting RDA values for Essential fatty acids, Essential Amino acids - key growth factors in diet.
Right before meal: Kidney extract (to manage histamine)
After meal:  Proteolytic enzyme that has Chymotrypsin + Trypsin (for odd reasons I do not understand, enzymes without these 2 do not work as well for me).  Bile Acids (for fat digestion - for odd reasons, other typical enzymes do not work on me). Okra extract (I think aids histamine decrement)
// Point of contention - no doc answers it for me.  While Trypsin really works for me, however my cautious nature makes me question trypsin, as I find 'tryptase' to be central to viral tropism i.e. multiplication.  Maybe that is the reason, a typical digestive enzyme does not include it?

Supplements (Irregular):
1. Beef thyroid glandular (provides T3 hormone, growth factor):  I used it for a month daily and now use them sparingly in a tiny micro dose only when needed.  For some reasons this had a profound a huge major impact on my breakthrough.  Even though I am very detailed and hyper-sensitive to stimuli, before T3, I felt no supplement or diet used to have any whatsoever measurable effects on me - positive or negative.  I felt my body, my metabolic system was intensely sluggish/stagnant, it did not matter what I put in it.  Things totally changed after this   For one, my body temperatures rose from 95.x to 98.x. 
Benefit:  Each day, I felt my skin improved, hair improved, mental functioning improved - from choppy to silky smooth.  When I took Vitamin C, I clearly felt its effect.  Various supplements, I could point out whether they were helping me or not helping me.  Life turned full of colors.
Not good:  I noticed over the course of a month that my heart rate continued increasing as well my Blood pressure (which used to be around 100/60 in day) now started climbing.  I stopped T3 when my heart rate once exceeded 100 - tachycardia territory, my BP started hovering around 120/85.  This was to me an indication, that continuing on this path is now risk that is bigger than reward.  Fortunately I do not use it, but the benefits have continued, though now my body temps range 96.x to 97.x 

2. Vitamin C, about 1g on and off.  Note: on most supplements I use base powders, so dosages are plus/minus.
3. Quercetin about 500 mg on and off
4. Luteolin about 100 mg on and off.
5. Apigenin, I dont know how much, on and off.
6. Zinc, Vitamin D, Vitamin B's on and off.
7. Vitamin A - I am very cautious:  Since T3 usage, it has a profound effect on my immune system, and I get Nasal congestion (though without POIS).
// Point of contention for me, docs wouldn't answer:  I find Vitamin A effect paradoxical.  Retinoic acid encourages TReg response, i.e. subduing immune function.  And here I find it beneficial (in low dose only) since it aggravates Nasal congestion. I really wish I could find an accurate pathogenesis of nasal congestions
8. TMG.  I feel TMG over a longer period of time, works similar to T3.  It seems to ignite my metabolic furnace, though for odd reasons, it does not have a 'smooth' effect on my brain, and I feel I start becoming a mean person .   It does have a hypertrophic effect on body and skin.  I use it sparingly.
9. SamE.  It shows its effect over a longer period of time.  Effects on brain are similar to T3 - "smooth".  I really like it, but its been a while since I ordered it.

What exactly happens that causes POIS and how we got it while many others never had it?

[berlin1984]

Thanks for the detailed reply. Some questions inline:

Dietary (Regular, daily)
- High fat, moderate Protein, low Carbohydrates
I go to: https://www.nutritionvalue.org/nutritioncalculator.php
And ensure I'm meeting RDA values for Essential fatty acids, Essential Amino acids - key growth factors in diet.

Do you do any things like gluten free or dairy free?

Supplements (Irregular):
1. Beef thyroid glandular (provides T3 hormone, growth factor):  I used it for a month daily and now use them sparingly in a tiny micro dose only when needed.  For some reasons this had a profound a huge major impact on my breakthrough.  Even though I am very detailed and hyper-sensitive to stimuli, before T3, I felt no supplement or diet used to have any whatsoever measurable effects on me - positive or negative.  I felt my body, my metabolic system was intensely sluggish/stagnant, it did not matter what I put in it.  Things totally changed after this   For one, my body temperatures rose from 95.x to 98.x. 
Benefit:  Each day, I felt my skin improved, hair improved, mental functioning improved - from choppy to silky smooth.  When I took Vitamin C, I clearly felt its effect.  Various supplements, I could point out whether they were helping me or not helping me.  Life turned full of colors.
Not good:  I noticed over the course of a month that my heart rate continued increasing as well my Blood pressure (which used to be around 100/60 in day) now started climbing.  I stopped T3 when my heart rate once exceeded 100 - tachycardia territory, my BP started hovering around 120/85.  This was to me an indication, that continuing on this path is now risk that is bigger than reward.  Fortunately I do not use it, but the benefits have continued, though now my body temps range 96.x to 97.x 

Interesting, I had not heared about this supplement (well, food..) before.
I read some scary things about it on the internet, so it's good you stopped when you felt too many side effects.
https://www.consumerreports.org/vitamins-supplements/never-take-thyroid-supplements/
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198704163161605

Did you every get any thyroid values checked by the doctor and he/she said they were OK?

Muon & co: Apparantely Bovine Thyroid Gland also somehow can affect calcium mechanisms in the body(?). This product claims: "Calcitonin is involved in calcium metabolism and works to decrease blood calcium levels. Calcitonin also inhibits bone resorption."
You were investigating calcium I think, maybe you have an opinion..

PS: I also often had the 'feeling cold' issue, but for me the fix was Ashwagandha.