Poll

What was the result of your SIBO test?

Positive for Hydrogen
1 (4.3%)
Positive for Methane
2 (8.7%)
Positive for both Hydrogen and Methane
2 (8.7%)
Positive, but they have used a different combination of solution and gases. Elaborate in the comments.
0 (0%)
Negative, but they have used a different combination of solution and gases. Elaborate in the comments.
0 (0%)
Negative
1 (4.3%)
I have never done such a test before.
17 (73.9%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Author Topic: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)  (Read 7580 times)

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • MCAD Thread
Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« on: August 02, 2020, 03:04:10 PM »
The question is based on this setup: Solution: Lactulose. Gases: Hydrogen and Methane. If you have only used one of these gases then the first two options still apply. However when using different gases and/or solution(s) then one have to pick the 'elaborate in the comments' option.

Positive means abnormal result.
Negative means normal result.

Votes can be changed as usual.

Huge database of papers: https://www.siboinfo.com/studies.html

===========================================================

Cross-linking polls/posts that might be relevant:

Vitamin D Poll

Vitamins & Minerals Poll

SIBO related post

Human beta-Defensin-2

===========================================================

Bonebroth
Mushnikk

===========================================================

Yeast/Candida

CharlesB, dead yeast in stool (microscope test, culture test is worthless):
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3643.msg38774#msg38774

Iwillbeatthis, high arabinose in urine, 44 mmol/mol creatinine (<20):
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg39410#msg39410

Muon, a clear T-lymphocyte cell mediated response to Candida Albicans, LTT:
1 ug/ml Candida: SI=26.5, 0.5 ug/ml Candida: SI=19.9 (this is the average value of 3 parallel tests, more cells have been multiplied proportional to the SI value, which is the ratio of the amount of candida stimulated T-cells and unstimulated T-cells). This could indicate Candida induced T-cell infiltration in the GI tract.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.0
 
Cj.in.la, high Candida specific IgG4 response:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2927.msg27543#msg27543

Bream, Potential innate response against Candida albicans via hBD-2:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=146.msg31902#msg31902

===========================================================

Same poll on ME/CFS forum:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/poll-small-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth-sibo.82265/

D-lactic acidosis discussion

Discussion forum: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/forums/the-gut-ibs-sibo-leaky-gut-gastroparesis.9/

Fungal discussion: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/forums/fungal-infection-yeast-candida.129/

=================================================================

IBS testing:
Anti-CdtB autoantibodies
Anti-vinculin autoantibodies
https://www.ibssmart.com/
https://chriskresser.com/is-ibs-an-autoimmune-disease/
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 01:38:52 PM by Muon »


berlin1984

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Use Adaptogens and Antioxidants, they can help.
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2020, 02:35:31 PM »
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/is-sibo-caused-by-dysautonomic-gastrointestinal-motility.81362/

I had bad gut motility too and still have it if I don't watch my behaviour. At times I was also thinking I had sibo, although I never did any test for it.
I had called it "slow transit constipation" because I didn't know the correct terms. My ways of solving it I described in this thread.

I see this part of my health issue as kind of solved, did not influence POIS though I think.

I think this post was useful for me: https://integrative.ca/blog/gut-motility


Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2020, 06:57:47 PM »
''The aim of low antigen content diet (LAC-diet) is the reduction of the high-molecular-weight exogenous substances crossing the mucosal barrier of the gut.''

Low-Antigen-Content Diet

Hopeoneday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 692
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2020, 09:24:56 AM »
When i reasarching CFS-ME forum, a lot of them hawe POTS- while haweing POTS ,a
lot of them hawe SIBO, sibo can backing gasses from small intesines back in
stomach, stomach is then pushed up,  that can put presure on heart , aorta, vagus nerve, changing vagal tone and by then changing heart2 rate etc(palpilations)... and in
pois, my vagal tone is hipersensitive when hit me hard.
I learned this from expirience , because in pois all this incriese badly.
And if you dont relese that bulded gasses ,
you must burp that gasses somehow, you can be in
trouble with heart and breathing, specialy when you in pois state.
Dr-pois.

Prospero

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2020, 10:07:13 AM »
That's also my own experience, HOD, though I don't know if I have SIBO (will try to convince someone that I need a test). I didn't know that this idea of a pushed-up stomach which pressures the heart etc was something that was discussed seriously by other people, but I had this impression.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 10:09:22 AM by Prospero »

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2020, 04:41:50 PM »
https://secure.vagusnervesupport.com/blogs/news/sibo-help

"Stomach Acid Must Be Maintained To Prevent SIBO/SIFO"
This is a problem for me. Also digestion can draw blood from elsewhere, blood volume might already be low. Big heavy meals can induce POTS like symptoms.

Small intestinal bacterial and fungal overgrowth (2020)

Also SIBO discussion here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3098.msg31156#msg31156
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 04:44:44 PM by Muon »

BoneBroth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2020, 05:34:19 PM »
I feel bad after heavy meals now and the blood pressure drops, yes thats probably because blood is going to the digest area.

Journey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
  • INTP, 19 y.o. aware of POIS since 2019
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 06:01:04 AM »
When i reasarching CFS-ME forum, a lot of them hawe POTS- while haweing POTS ,a
lot of them hawe SIBO, sibo can backing gasses from small intesines back in
stomach, stomach is then pushed up,  that can put presure on heart , aorta, vagus nerve, changing vagal tone and by then changing heart2 rate etc(palpilations)... and in
pois, my vagal tone is hipersensitive when hit me hard.
I learned this from expirience , because in pois all this incriese badly.
And if you dont relese that bulded gasses ,
you must burp that gasses somehow, you can be in
trouble with heart and breathing, specialy when you in pois state.
That'd explain why I have this narrower breathing type feeling and gases and reduced appetite and getting nauseous fast by fatty and salty foods in POIS state the question is does POIS cause SIBO or viceversa by chronical gases the nerves and other systems were altered leading to POIS I wonder how these gases can be made to go out in the most efficient ways.


Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2020, 10:55:44 AM »
Vitamin D Modulates Intestinal Microbiota in Inflammatory Bowel Diseases

"The intestinal dysbiosis is related to a reduction in butyrate-producing species, impairing the anti-inflammatory response of the immune system, and is commonly associated with micronutrients deficiency, e.g. vitamin D hypovitaminosis."

16S Microbiome test from Atlas Biomed (I don't have any printout of results, they are visible in a webpage with diagrams, so I can't post all of it)
- I am missing a number of important butyrate-producing bacteria such as faecalibacterium, roseburia, coprococcus, akkermansia. I also have very low eubacterium.
- I am also missing a non-butyrate bacteria called Lactobacillus.
- Bifidobacteria is about 2.4%.

Butyrate maintains the gut lining, it also produces regulatory immune cells that prevent autoimmune disease. People with Celiac disease and IBS have been found to have low butyrate bacteria. I think when we orgasm, oxidative stress rises and our butyrate bacteria cannot produce enough butyrate to suppress it so we get damage to the body.
I've been ill since aged 14 so maybe being sexually active started all of this for me. Initial symptoms were chronic fatigue but have progressed since then.

A year ago at age 30, I was on a course of a dangerous antibiotic called Ciprofloxacin. I have since developed a large number of symptoms like fibromyalgia, connective tissue damage, joint pain, fat padding loss. All of it worsens after an orgasm and the worst of it persists for about a week.

I believe high oxidative stress is the action in this illness.

The Causes of Intestinal Dysbiosis: A Review

Table 1C: Ciprofloxacin: Other: yeast colonization: increase in number of organisms during therapy.

All of it worsens after an orgasm and the worst of it persists for about a week.

Funny how it's the same number as the normalization period post administration of Ciprofloxacin...as if POIS is doing something similar as Ciprofloxacin.
Table 1C: Days to normalization of flora (postadministration): 7

As if Cipro modulates immune parameters that benefit yeast growth and perhaps the same modulation might be true for POIS as well.

Assessment of oral ciprofloxacin impaired gut barrier integrity on gut bacteria in mice

"High CPFX disturbed the bacteria community structure, reduced indole and butyrate."

"Further, the High CPFX treatment increased pro-inflammatory cytokine IL-1beta in intestinal tract, decreased IL-17A of duodenum but increased IL-17A of colon at day 37."

IL-17a is a critical defensive parameter against fungi/yeast. If yeast is a problem then the duodenum might be involved.

IL-17: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.msg32239#msg32239
Also brother got a decreased level. May lead to other things---> https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.msg37628#msg37628

Hypothesis: Is a decreased level of certain butyrate species involved in the pathophysiology of POIS?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 12:18:25 PM by Muon »

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2020, 03:13:48 PM »
I feel bad after heavy meals now and the blood pressure drops, yes thats probably because blood is going to the digest area.

This is probably the reason why my heart stopped beating and turned blue when receiving breast milk (age 2 days). Blood being drawn from vital organs to the digestive area.

BoneBroth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2020, 04:46:14 PM »
Well one could think that a baby's body should not fail on just feeding breast milk, unless there is a defect in the oxygen transportation in the blood (heart defect, blocked breading etc). Anyway, if we poisers experience POTS after meals, we should probably benefit from eating smaller meals more often and let the intestines rest for 14-16 hours every day (not eating meals between 6 pm and 9 am.

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2020, 08:38:23 PM »
When i reasarching CFS-ME forum, a lot of them hawe POTS- while haweing POTS ,a
lot of them hawe SIBO, sibo can backing gasses from small intesines back in
stomach, stomach is then pushed up,  that can put presure on heart , aorta, vagus nerve, changing vagal tone and by then changing heart2 rate etc(palpilations)... and in
pois, my vagal tone is hipersensitive when hit me hard.
I learned this from expirience , because in pois all this incriese badly.
And if you dont relese that bulded gasses ,
you must burp that gasses somehow, you can be in
trouble with heart and breathing, specialy when you in pois state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roemheld_syndrome

Hopeoneday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 692
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2020, 05:03:58 PM »
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 05:08:22 PM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2020, 05:05:04 PM »
Vagus nerve compression

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2020, 11:00:44 AM »
SIBO testing in POISers would be interesting (research?).

Iwillbeatthis

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2020, 12:42:59 PM »
Is small intestine permeability a good test for SIBO? I had it done a month ago with the gastro specialist waiting for the results but this was after my stools had improved from berberine and oregano oil so maybe nothing will show...

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2020, 01:20:53 PM »
Is small intestine permeability a good test for SIBO?

Nope