Author Topic: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?  (Read 1507 times)

Cursed

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So I'm just throwing this out there, in case someone wants/has the energy to dig deeper or maybe send their blood sample to Germany to be tested for adrenergic receptor antibodies: https://www.celltrend.de/en/pots-cfs-me-crps.html

It's quite expensive, though... but would be VERY interesting if at least a few people could do the test.

Some of those antibodies are found at higher levels in POTS and ME/CFS and since POIS seems to be at least somewhat related, I think this could be worth a try.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 08:14:44 AM by Cursed »

Journey

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2020, 09:34:09 AM »
If this is the case then what might have caused such antibodies to develop and thus POIS to develop and what would stop body producing adrenergic antibodies?


Cursed

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2020, 09:40:57 AM »
If this is the case then what might have caused such antibodies to develop and thus POIS to develop and what would stop body producing adrenergic antibodies?

That's a million dollar question. Just like with all the other autoimmune diseases, we don't really know. There are many theories, but in my personal opinion, the ones that currently make the most sense are chronic microbiome infections/pathobionts and/or dysbiosis. I believe that would easily explain why some people get very good results with dietary changes. Of course, no doubt that micronutrient deficiences can also play a role,  as well as hormones and genetic predispositions (but they're probably not the cause).

Hopeoneday

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2020, 10:28:32 AM »
I think that this is a wery good idea!
Dr-pois.

15yrsAndCounting

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2020, 04:52:06 PM »
So I'm just throwing this out there, in case someone wants/has the energy to dig deeper or maybe send their blood sample to Germany to be tested for adrenergic receptor antibodies: https://www.celltrend.de/en/pots-cfs-me-crps.html

It's quite expensive, though... but would be VERY interesting if at least a few people could do the test.

Some of those antibodies are found at higher levels in POTS and ME/CFS and since POIS seems to be at least somewhat related, I think this could be worth a try.

Did anybody send sample. Can you give more details on , where to send the details and what is the approximate cost

Muon

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2020, 04:56:36 PM »
Did anybody send sample. Can you give more details on , where to send the details and what is the approximate cost

IMD Berlin offers a few of them as well. See the standard request form #323: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3207.0

Edit: I will add the celltrend lab to the list.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 06:13:13 PM by Muon »

Cursed

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2020, 09:43:46 AM »
So I'm just throwing this out there, in case someone wants/has the energy to dig deeper or maybe send their blood sample to Germany to be tested for adrenergic receptor antibodies: https://www.celltrend.de/en/pots-cfs-me-crps.html

It's quite expensive, though... but would be VERY interesting if at least a few people could do the test.

Some of those antibodies are found at higher levels in POTS and ME/CFS and since POIS seems to be at least somewhat related, I think this could be worth a try.

Did anybody send sample. Can you give more details on , where to send the details and what is the approximate cost

?467 for the full panel, which includes:

Angiotensin-II-Receptor-1 (AT1R) IgG-auto-antibodies
Endothelin-Receptor-A (ETAR) IgG-auto-antibodies
Beta-1 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies
Beta-2 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies
Muscarinic cholinergic (M1) receptor auto-antibodies
Muscarinic cholinergic (M2) receptor auto-antibodies
Muscarinic cholinergic (M3) receptor auto-antibodies
Muscarinic cholinergic (M4) receptor auto-antibodies
Muscarinic cholinergic (M5) receptor auto-antibodies
Alpha-1 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies
Alpha-2 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies

swell

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2020, 12:01:24 PM »
The cause I believe is the impaired Homocysteine, Methionine, Folate and related metabolites pathway, it shunts the SAMe cycle and consequently the lack of catecholamines.





If this is the case then what might have caused such antibodies to develop and thus POIS to develop and what would stop body producing adrenergic antibodies?
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

Journey

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2020, 01:36:30 PM »
The cause I believe is the impaired Homocysteine, Methionine, Folate and related metabolites pathway, it shunts the SAMe cycle and consequently the lack of catecholamines.





If this is the case then what might have caused such antibodies to develop and thus POIS to develop and what would stop body producing adrenergic antibodies?
Is it impaired due to genes or other things can cause it too?

swell

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2020, 02:28:33 PM »
Genes are the prelude of the story only, whereas to the impairments that would be expression of those genes as the variable that can be managed as a therapeutic approach.

The cause I believe is the impaired Homocysteine, Methionine, Folate and related metabolites pathway, it shunts the SAMe cycle and consequently the lack of catecholamines.





If this is the case then what might have caused such antibodies to develop and thus POIS to develop and what would stop body producing adrenergic antibodies?
Is it impaired due to genes or other things can cause it too?
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

berlin1984

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Re: Could adrenergic receptor antibodies be the cause of POIS?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2020, 12:07:51 PM »
Cross linking.

Trying to link with the CFS theories..

The Blood Vessel Crunch: A Unifying Hypothesis for ME/CFS
http://simmaronresearch.com/2020/05/blood-vessel-crunch-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
"Could an autoimmune process attacking the B2 adrenergic receptor be causing the symptoms of ME/CFS?"
"This dysbalance between vasoconstrictor and vasodilator forces ? with the vasoconstrictors winning ? triggers the release of  painful vasodilating substances in an attempt to open the blood vessels."
" They believe that just about every symptom in ME/CFS could be caused when vasodilatory substances spill over into the general circulation, around the muscles, the lymph nodes, the gut and the bladder.
Provided that enough of these vasodilatory substances were present, every stress on the cardiovascular system could result in fatigue, pain, flu-like systems etc."
"Even mental stress, they believe, could cause pain by triggering the sympathetic nervous system to clamp down further on the blood vessels of the skeletal muscles, causing them to emit vasodilators in an attempt to get more blood, and producing pain, flu-like symptoms, etc"


The quotes are my own pickings, maybe someone with more knowledge (I never thought about the vaso-things) about biology and medicine could read and check if there is paralleism with POIS.