Author Topic: This got worse (isolation and POIS)  (Read 1636 times)

estefan99

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This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« on: April 09, 2020, 02:41:33 AM »
Since the whole COVID-19 started and we can't go out, I can't figure out what happened to myself.

I started getting POIS while asleep, waking up in the middle of the night with terrible headaches, waking up 3 times a night, or only waking up in the morning with POIS symptoms (no wet dream).

I am pretty sure it's pre-cum doing this but I can't see anything if I go to bathroom.

Do you think it is because being in house all day long? I am sitting almost half a day in front of the computer since I have nothing else to do during this times.

What do you guys think, does it happen to you too? I am currently experiencing at least 1 headache everyday because of this nightmare of POIS.

I am also on abstinence mode for couple months but this never happened to me in the past.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 06:52:07 AM by estefan99 »

Hopeoneday

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Re: This got worse
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2020, 05:10:54 AM »
Well, because of pois and CFG/ME  24/7 i am in constant" quarantene" for last olmoust 20
years and thees corona situations didnnt afect me at all.
Maybe is to much lcd screan on comp for you?
Or psychological corona situation?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 05:26:41 AM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

estefan99

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2020, 06:50:16 AM »
I believe this is connected to constipation, I noticed hard stool past days, and this may be putting pressure on the prostate which makes a little fluid come out from time to time.

Sitting down a lot + being constipated or having hard stool could be a connection to getting symptoms every day, and I believe this is connected to staying at home and not moving enough.

Can someone confirm?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 07:00:30 AM by estefan99 »

millstone

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2020, 11:57:19 AM »
Since the whole COVID-19 started and we can't go out, I can't figure out what happened to myself.


Welcome to the forum.

The sudden onset of POIS could be stress-induced, relating to your newly acquired anxious thoughts / feelings about COVID-19, the state of the world, and / or other potential life stressors. All that, and "perhaps" a combination of sexual exhaustion (I know... keep reading).


I started getting POIS while asleep, waking up in the middle of the night with terrible headaches, waking up 3 times a night, or only waking up in the morning with POIS symptoms (no wet dream).

I am pretty sure it's pre-cum doing this but I can't see anything if I go to bathroom.


Can you confirm that you are still abstaining?

You mention you have been in "abstinence" mode for several months. Are you still abstaining, or did you have recent sexual activity?

If you are new to abstaining, this could be your body's reflex to get back to an addiction (...keep reading).



Do you think it is because being in house all day long? I am sitting almost half a day in front of the computer since I have nothing else to do during this times.


It could contribute to stress factors. You need sufficient exercise (as well as a decent diet) to keep your immune / endocrine system active and healthy.

I believe this is connected to constipation, I noticed hard stool past days, and this may be putting pressure on the prostate which makes a little fluid come out from time to time.

Sitting down a lot + being constipated or having hard stool could be a connection to getting symptoms every day, and I believe this is connected to staying at home and not moving enough.

Can someone confirm?

If you have the time, watch this video. It explains how chronic conditions manifest, and how chronic stress can rewire and impair your limbic system with the combination of external stressors (like viral, bacterial, toxin exposure, etc). This leads to a host of problems that kick on the sympathetic fight-or-flight response and an over-primed sympathetic nervous system, keeping it in a hyper-vigilant state of defense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5tE218DIhs&t=2s

The sympathetic nervous system handles your subconscious bodily functions and reactions to threats and stress. When it's too wired, you can manifest issues like digestion problems, heart problems, and other auto-immune disorders. When the stress response kicks in, your body readies for "fight or flight" and shuts down the "rest and digest" functions, leading to hypervigilance, redistribution of blood flow, anxiety, and over time potentially more extreme issues like insomnia (due to surged of adrenaline like you are experiencing), depression, derealization, Parkinsonism tremors, etc.

The reason I ask above about sexual abstinence and sexual activity is that the combination of trying "NoFap hard mode" after prolonged addiction is a great way to shock the hell out of your system if you are trying to reboot brain circuitry and you wind up relapsing in the middle of the process. Kindled neural pathways that were so used to elevated levels of Dopamine and Norepinephine conversion could be over-taxed from this surge during the healing process. The body needs time to adjust from withdrawal of an addiction and find homeostasis. A big shock / impact like this could theoretically then get "saved" into your sympathetic "operating system" of learned programs, remembering it as trauma, and now responding to that trauma every time it's reactivated by a threat.

If none of the above assumptions about sex / addiction applies to your situation, then look into your life for other vectors that may be inducing chronic stress and could have pushed you over the edge. Something snagged your limbic system and now your body is automatically responding with adrenaline / fight-or-flight.

As a simple way to destress (besides diet, routine sleep, supplements, exercise), try some Qi Gong while you are in quarantine. I personally do this video routine once or twice a day (seriously) and I notice a huge improvement in my ability to balance out my sympathetic vs. parasympathetic nervous system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwlvTcWR3Gs

This is by no means a cure for POIS, but it may help you find some balance as you work through the root of the problem that allowed POIS too manifest.

Hopeoneday

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2020, 01:09:58 PM »
I believe this is connected to constipation, I noticed hard stool past days, and this may be putting pressure on the prostate which makes a little fluid come out from time to time.

Sitting down a lot + being constipated or having hard stool could be a connection to getting symptoms every day, and I believe this is connected to staying at home and not moving enough.

Can someone confirm?

Definitely, pois itself and sexual hi arousall
give me constipation nex day and thouse stool prostate presure is true for me too.
Stool puting presure on prostate and inflames nerwes aroun prostate and lower back.
It can be quite annoying "sick condition" while this happens in me, untill and manage to go to the toilet.
This lower back prostate irritation triggers heart palpilations in me to.
Dr-pois.

Limejuice

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2020, 01:12:33 PM »
While most of us around the world are quarantined now could be a good time to slow down and analyze something about this disease. Maybe it's the triggers or symptom reduction or the root cause, etc.

demografx

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2020, 02:37:37 PM »
Excellent, Limejuice
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

estefan99

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2020, 06:39:40 PM »
Since the whole COVID-19 started and we can't go out, I can't figure out what happened to myself.


Welcome to the forum.

The sudden onset of POIS could be stress-induced, relating to your newly acquired anxious thoughts / feelings about COVID-19, the state of the world, and / or other potential life stressors. All that, and "perhaps" a combination of sexual exhaustion (I know... keep reading).


I started getting POIS while asleep, waking up in the middle of the night with terrible headaches, waking up 3 times a night, or only waking up in the morning with POIS symptoms (no wet dream).

I am pretty sure it's pre-cum doing this but I can't see anything if I go to bathroom.


Can you confirm that you are still abstaining?

You mention you have been in "abstinence" mode for several months. Are you still abstaining, or did you have recent sexual activity?

If you are new to abstaining, this could be your body's reflex to get back to an addiction (...keep reading).



Do you think it is because being in house all day long? I am sitting almost half a day in front of the computer since I have nothing else to do during this times.


It could contribute to stress factors. You need sufficient exercise (as well as a decent diet) to keep your immune / endocrine system active and healthy.

I believe this is connected to constipation, I noticed hard stool past days, and this may be putting pressure on the prostate which makes a little fluid come out from time to time.

Sitting down a lot + being constipated or having hard stool could be a connection to getting symptoms every day, and I believe this is connected to staying at home and not moving enough.

Can someone confirm?

If you have the time, watch this video. It explains how chronic conditions manifest, and how chronic stress can rewire and impair your limbic system with the combination of external stressors (like viral, bacterial, toxin exposure, etc). This leads to a host of problems that kick on the sympathetic fight-or-flight response and an over-primed sympathetic nervous system, keeping it in a hyper-vigilant state of defense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5tE218DIhs&t=2s

The sympathetic nervous system handles your subconscious bodily functions and reactions to threats and stress. When it's too wired, you can manifest issues like digestion problems, heart problems, and other auto-immune disorders. When the stress response kicks in, your body readies for "fight or flight" and shuts down the "rest and digest" functions, leading to hypervigilance, redistribution of blood flow, anxiety, and over time potentially more extreme issues like insomnia (due to surged of adrenaline like you are experiencing), depression, derealization, Parkinsonism tremors, etc.

The reason I ask above about sexual abstinence and sexual activity is that the combination of trying "NoFap hard mode" after prolonged addiction is a great way to shock the hell out of your system if you are trying to reboot brain circuitry and you wind up relapsing in the middle of the process. Kindled neural pathways that were so used to elevated levels of Dopamine and Norepinephine conversion could be over-taxed from this surge during the healing process. The body needs time to adjust from withdrawal of an addiction and find homeostasis. A big shock / impact like this could theoretically then get "saved" into your sympathetic "operating system" of learned programs, remembering it as trauma, and now responding to that trauma every time it's reactivated by a threat.

If none of the above assumptions about sex / addiction applies to your situation, then look into your life for other vectors that may be inducing chronic stress and could have pushed you over the edge. Something snagged your limbic system and now your body is automatically responding with adrenaline / fight-or-flight.

As a simple way to destress (besides diet, routine sleep, supplements, exercise), try some Qi Gong while you are in quarantine. I personally do this video routine once or twice a day (seriously) and I notice a huge improvement in my ability to balance out my sympathetic vs. parasympathetic nervous system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwlvTcWR3Gs

This is by no means a cure for POIS, but it may help you find some balance as you work through the root of the problem that allowed POIS too manifest.

Hello,

First things first I want to thank you for taking the time to write and explain me so much.

I probably forgot to mention that I had POIS before this period but not so frequent. What makes me go nuts is that in this period of time (since we are isolated, 2 weeks+ for me) I get POIS every single day while sleeping. I wake up in the middle of the night or in the morning with a very bad headache that recently started to affect my ears too. (tinnitus)

I really need a break from this to recover and I am still trying to figure out how to brake the loop.

I have been abstaining from masturbation since 1 year, recently 2 or 3 months ago lets say, I ejaculated from too much arousal but then things get back to normal. I usually had 1 wet dream / week and that was it. Now I notice I barely have wet dreams, I don't know why, maybe I am just too exhausted.

Yes, I am still abstaining, I only get relief if I have wet dreams.

One more thing I believe it happens when I am sleeping, my body is trying to relax all the muscles and then when a wet dream is about to come my body subconciouslly contracts because I tried to do this couple times in the past to completely stop feeling POIS.

millstone

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2020, 09:15:45 PM »

I probably forgot to mention that I had POIS before this period but not so frequent. What makes me go nuts is that in this period of time (since we are isolated, 2 weeks+ for me) I get POIS every single day while sleeping. I wake up in the middle of the night or in the morning with a very bad headache that recently started to affect my ears too. (tinnitus)


Based on the slow ramp up of POIS, it seems plausible that the POIS is stress-induced.

If you were using sexual activity as a crutch for dealing with anxiety (I sure did) then abstinence / withdrawal only makes it harder because we now confront the beast of anxiety without the stress relief we had before.

You are able to observe that more chronic stress (quarantine / corona) is further manifesting the symptoms and elevating the frequency / magnitude. The sympathetic fight-or-flight is feeding off of the stress. The mind thinks the thought, the thought activates the hormones, the body reacts to the hormones, and the body is now in control. The mind then observes the body in its panicked state, and continues the negative feedback loop with the thoughts, producing more stress hormones, etc.

It's a vicious cycle because the adrenaline also makes the insomnia worse, and the insomnia forces the output of more adrenaline to function during the day.

You have to break the cycle.

Are you on a regular sleep schedule, and are you in a position to try to get at least 8 or 9 hours of sleep? It may require 10 - 12 hours of being in bed to jump-start the process. You need at least 8 or 9 hours a night for a while to get the parasympathetic balance back for an normal day.

Speaking from experience, this is what I did to build a better sleep routine:

* If you can, go to bed at 9:00 pm (seriously). You may not be asleep until 11:00 or 12:00. But by sticking to the schedule and forcing it, you gradually improve.
* Unwind before bed with at least 60 to 90 minutes of no technology. Read a book. Dim the lights. Do the Qi Gong video. Something to allow your pineal gland to recognize it's time to start converting melatonin.
* POIS is likely burning out your neurotransmitters, so you will need to supplement and eat right to start building the neuro-transmitters in the first place to convert that melatonin. Focus on supplements & probiotics that support GABA and Serotonin production.
* High quality fish oil (1000 mg), Vitamin D (2000 IU), and high-dose B12 (methylcobalamin) to help rebuild neurotransmitters / brain health.
* Eat a balanced snack before bed to help regulate blood sugar during the night (suppress other vectors for adrenaline spikes). Peanut butter crackers are good because they contain a good mix of carbs / protein.
* Turn on some guided sleep induction / meditation techniques while drifting off to bed. The two have worked very well for me to get me trained for sleep:
** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3nIKaHJ9P4
** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS0gPJqra6I
* If you wake up with the surge of adrenaline / sweats, focus on burning it off. Get out of bed and do as many pushups as you can. Then do jumping jacks. Then bicycle pedals while lying on your back. You will feel exhausted and climb back into bed. Don't push yourself to hurt your body, but burn the adrenaline.
* Get at least 30 minutes of quality exercise a day. This can just be a walk around the neighborhood. Don't push it hard if it's challenging. Just get out into nature. Set your watch and don't come back until 30 minutes are up.
* Fight-or-flight will suppress the appetite. If you don't already, eat enough food each day (at least 2000 calories). You need the right nutrients and food to manufacture and replenish the burned out neurotransmitters and balance the nervous system.
* I also bought an Oura Ring. It's pricey ($300) but it really helped me better understand my sleep patterns and improve them (http://ouraring.com). It also encourages the exercise, and tells me to get up and do something if I've been sitting on my ass for too long.

Insomnia sucks because it leads to depression. When you're depressed, you don't care about any of the above, so you have to really focus on the will power to get sleep back in order.


Yes, I am still abstaining, I only get relief if I have wet dreams.


When you say "relief" is it safe to assume you just mean "orgasm"? I am only assuming as it likely would not be actual "relief" if you experience POIS after orgasm.


One more thing I believe it happens when I am sleeping, my body is trying to relax all the muscles and then when a wet dream is about to come my body subconciouslly contracts because I tried to do this couple times in the past to completely stop feeling POIS.

Seems like a learned behavior, and likely a large source of the trauma itself that causes the negative feedback loop. You trained your limbic system to incorporate this response as a maladapted protection mechanism.

During the night when you have nocturnal erections, your limbic system is seeing it as a threat, and kicks in a surge of adrenaline, activating your fight-or-flight for perceived danger. Your body is trying to "protect" you from what it thinks is danger, based on what it remembers (literally what you taught it).

Over time and slow exposure practice, you will need to teach your limbic system to "unlearn" this behavior.

Sleep regulation is first though, so you can function each day. Get the circadian rhythm in check. It will help balance there sympathetic overload, and then you can focus on more root causes and undo the learned stress in the body, and give yourself time to heal and recover. There is a great thread that just started on this forum for Trauma Release Exercise (TRE) that links out to some good YouTube videos:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3263.0

Observer

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2020, 05:53:11 PM »
Hello estefan99, I would try to get some time off the computer in order to reduce your symptoms. This has helped other people before:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=413.0

demografx

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2020, 05:55:41 PM »
Observer, I need to follow that advice, too! :)
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Observer

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2020, 06:04:49 PM »
Observer, I need to follow that advice, too! :)

And I need to apply it to myself! ;D

demografx

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2020, 06:17:40 PM »
Observer, I need to follow that advice, too! :)

And I need to apply it to myself! ;D

;D ;D ;D
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

estefan99

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2020, 04:17:21 AM »

I probably forgot to mention that I had POIS before this period but not so frequent. What makes me go nuts is that in this period of time (since we are isolated, 2 weeks+ for me) I get POIS every single day while sleeping. I wake up in the middle of the night or in the morning with a very bad headache that recently started to affect my ears too. (tinnitus)


Based on the slow ramp up of POIS, it seems plausible that the POIS is stress-induced.

If you were using sexual activity as a crutch for dealing with anxiety (I sure did) then abstinence / withdrawal only makes it harder because we now confront the beast of anxiety without the stress relief we had before.

You are able to observe that more chronic stress (quarantine / corona) is further manifesting the symptoms and elevating the frequency / magnitude. The sympathetic fight-or-flight is feeding off of the stress. The mind thinks the thought, the thought activates the hormones, the body reacts to the hormones, and the body is now in control. The mind then observes the body in its panicked state, and continues the negative feedback loop with the thoughts, producing more stress hormones, etc.

It's a vicious cycle because the adrenaline also makes the insomnia worse, and the insomnia forces the output of more adrenaline to function during the day.

You have to break the cycle.

Are you on a regular sleep schedule, and are you in a position to try to get at least 8 or 9 hours of sleep? It may require 10 - 12 hours of being in bed to jump-start the process. You need at least 8 or 9 hours a night for a while to get the parasympathetic balance back for an normal day.

Speaking from experience, this is what I did to build a better sleep routine:

* If you can, go to bed at 9:00 pm (seriously). You may not be asleep until 11:00 or 12:00. But by sticking to the schedule and forcing it, you gradually improve.
* Unwind before bed with at least 60 to 90 minutes of no technology. Read a book. Dim the lights. Do the Qi Gong video. Something to allow your pineal gland to recognize it's time to start converting melatonin.
* POIS is likely burning out your neurotransmitters, so you will need to supplement and eat right to start building the neuro-transmitters in the first place to convert that melatonin. Focus on supplements & probiotics that support GABA and Serotonin production.
* High quality fish oil (1000 mg), Vitamin D (2000 IU), and high-dose B12 (methylcobalamin) to help rebuild neurotransmitters / brain health.
* Eat a balanced snack before bed to help regulate blood sugar during the night (suppress other vectors for adrenaline spikes). Peanut butter crackers are good because they contain a good mix of carbs / protein.
* Turn on some guided sleep induction / meditation techniques while drifting off to bed. The two have worked very well for me to get me trained for sleep:
** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3nIKaHJ9P4
** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS0gPJqra6I
* If you wake up with the surge of adrenaline / sweats, focus on burning it off. Get out of bed and do as many pushups as you can. Then do jumping jacks. Then bicycle pedals while lying on your back. You will feel exhausted and climb back into bed. Don't push yourself to hurt your body, but burn the adrenaline.
* Get at least 30 minutes of quality exercise a day. This can just be a walk around the neighborhood. Don't push it hard if it's challenging. Just get out into nature. Set your watch and don't come back until 30 minutes are up.
* Fight-or-flight will suppress the appetite. If you don't already, eat enough food each day (at least 2000 calories). You need the right nutrients and food to manufacture and replenish the burned out neurotransmitters and balance the nervous system.
* I also bought an Oura Ring. It's pricey ($300) but it really helped me better understand my sleep patterns and improve them (http://ouraring.com). It also encourages the exercise, and tells me to get up and do something if I've been sitting on my ass for too long.

Insomnia sucks because it leads to depression. When you're depressed, you don't care about any of the above, so you have to really focus on the will power to get sleep back in order.


Yes, I am still abstaining, I only get relief if I have wet dreams.


When you say "relief" is it safe to assume you just mean "orgasm"? I am only assuming as it likely would not be actual "relief" if you experience POIS after orgasm.


One more thing I believe it happens when I am sleeping, my body is trying to relax all the muscles and then when a wet dream is about to come my body subconciouslly contracts because I tried to do this couple times in the past to completely stop feeling POIS.

Seems like a learned behavior, and likely a large source of the trauma itself that causes the negative feedback loop. You trained your limbic system to incorporate this response as a maladapted protection mechanism.

During the night when you have nocturnal erections, your limbic system is seeing it as a threat, and kicks in a surge of adrenaline, activating your fight-or-flight for perceived danger. Your body is trying to "protect" you from what it thinks is danger, based on what it remembers (literally what you taught it).

Over time and slow exposure practice, you will need to teach your limbic system to "unlearn" this behavior.

Sleep regulation is first though, so you can function each day. Get the circadian rhythm in check. It will help balance there sympathetic overload, and then you can focus on more root causes and undo the learned stress in the body, and give yourself time to heal and recover. There is a great thread that just started on this forum for Trauma Release Exercise (TRE) that links out to some good YouTube videos:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3263.0

By relief I ment getting rid of all the sperm that has been created  along the time.

Sometimes I get the worse POIS symptoms, other times not, just mild symptoms.

I think my POIS symptoms started to appear after taking Cipro, this was first time, but still I could sleep normally. After taking Cipro the second time POIS happened to appear to pre-cum too, but AGAIN I still could sleep normally. (maybe I am noticing now that I am not working at 100% capacity because of this, I could be having this since the second time I took cipro and didn't noticed until now).

So I'm pretty sure antibiotics worsened my POIS.

I checked my T and Prolactin levels and they were normal, checked my blood tests and discovered that I have Vitamin D deficency. Around 11 or something.

At first, I started taking Vitamin D but I noticed that my symptoms got even worse after this. I will probably try again despite this fact .. and normalize my levels.

During my Cipro treatment I got IBS for couple months, solved but really really hard. Now from all this stress accumulated it started again. I feel like a baloon after I eat.

The first thing I tried after discovering POIS was to take a spoon of apple cider everyday. I was shocked. I was waking up with a lot of power, and the times I would get a wet dream I felt the symptoms were at 5%.

Suddenly, since I started waking up at night, the apple cider stopped working so I quit taking it. What do you think, why would it work? I took it like 2 weeks and it worked all the time, I was so happy I could manage this so simple. Maybe apple cider modified my gut flora a little bit so now I am constantly reacting to precum even when I am sleeping?

I tried the qi exercises you gave me and it really helped, I am not waking up in the middle of the night anymore, I just wake up in the morning but weakened, I guess nocturnal erections still trigger my POIS every night..

I need to figure out how to stop NOCTURNAL ERECTIONS that are causing me precum because I can not recover completely in such conditions.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 07:44:32 AM by estefan99 »

millstone

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2020, 02:11:42 PM »

By relief I ment getting rid of all the sperm that has been created  along the time.

Sometimes I get the worse POIS symptoms, other times not, just mild symptoms.


Are you able to correlate this at all with frequency of ejaculation?

Specifically - if you abstain for longer, are the conditions better or worse after orgasm?



I think my POIS symptoms started to appear after taking Cipro, this was first time, but still I could sleep normally. After taking Cipro the second time POIS happened to appear to pre-cum too, but AGAIN I still could sleep normally. (maybe I am noticing now that I am not working at 100% capacity because of this, I could be having this since the second time I took cipro and didn't noticed until now).

So I'm pretty sure antibiotics worsened my POIS.


The following is just my theory, but hear me out on this one...

I'm wondering if you have been dealing with chronic stress prior to the Cipro usage that led to whatever illness /  infection that required you to take Cipro.

From functional medicine literature & emerging studies on epigenetics, 95% of diseases are triggered by stress (sometimes chronic stress over time), and only 5% or less are truly genetic / hereditary.

I am hypothesizing that some long-term stress had a slow ramp-up to the POIS "perfect storm" to manifest the chronic condition around the time of the Cirpo usage, and / or the Cirpo usage and weekend immune system was enough to wire to a maladaptive limbic response.

I speak from experience in that I was dealing with a lot of underlying chronic stress for years-on-end that culminated in food poisoning last summer. I was given Bactrim in the ER. I had a horrible out-of-body experience during it, and thought to myself maybe the Bactrim did it to me. I started dealing with POIS shortly after that episode, but I also look back and realize for at least two years I was having smaller anxiety attacks leading up to it. Constantly checking my pulse. Having issues driving on highway overpasses, losing my appetite, not sleeping well, not enjoying alcohol as much, etc.

If you had / have underlying chronic stress, maybe take a deep look at the history before POIS to see if there are any correlations you could make.



I checked my T and Prolactin levels and they were normal, checked my blood tests and discovered that I have Vitamin D deficency. Around 11 or something.


11 is very, very low.

Last time I tested I was at 33 which is "in range" by general medical standards (low end range) but from a functional medicine perspective, they recommend a level of at least 50. Anything over 80 is too high.

This video is very long, but it's a great overview on the importance of Vitamin D (as well as Vitamin B and maintaining balance), sleep, and the body's ability to repair itself, and how all of this can relate to chronic conditions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74F22bjBmqE&t=1s

I listened to it while exercising / walking. Makes it more palatable.



At first, I started taking Vitamin D but I noticed that my symptoms got even worse after this. I will probably try again despite this fact .. and normalize my levels.


Are you able to / willing to abstain for a while and try the Vitamin D supplements again? It may not be directly related like how are thinking.

Normalizing D takes time. Some docs recommend 5,000 - 10,000 IUs per day for a few months just to get levels up. This is a heavy dose and will cause some constipation, so be forewarned.

I personally do 2,000 / day. 1,000 at Breakfast and 1,000 at lunch or dinner.



During my Cipro treatment I got IBS for couple months, solved but really really hard. Now from all this stress accumulated it started again. I feel like a baloon after I eat.


Similar to the above, IBS is related to chronic stress activation and chronic conditions re: limbic system impairment, as well as related to the health of your gut.

IBS can also be triggered when you lack the right flora for digestion. Strong antibiotics are like carpet bombing. They will wipe out the good with the bad.

I had pretty bad IBS for decades (pre-POIS). I was on omeprazole 20mg every day and every third poop I had was diarrhea, sometimes multiple times a day. I also ate 7-11 taquitos for lunch without a care in the world, so it was a lifestyle choice back then.

I was able to get my digestion in check over the past year by improving my diet (more Whole Foods / better macronutrient balance), proper supplementation & micronutrients, and stopped the omeprazole. No more bloating. No more pain. I poop once a day in the morning like clockwork.

Paradoxically though, POIS started around the same time I "stopped" the omeprazole. I didn't know of POIS at the time, and I was cleaning up my health by stopping the omeprazole, so I don't think the two are related, outside of timing when everything went down.

I do think gut health is somewhat related to POIS in the sense that the gut handles the manufacture of neurotransmitters and hormones. For example, serotonin is 90% manufactured in the gut. I did a gut test back in October of last year and I was completely missing Lactobacillus flora, which are responsible for manufacturing Serotonin. Since then I've also been supplementing with specific probiotics and I do feel the difference.



The first thing I tried after discovering POIS was to take a spoon of apple cider everyday. I was shocked. I was waking up with a lot of power, and the times I would get a wet dream I felt the symptoms were at 5%.

Suddenly, since I started waking up at night, the apple cider stopped working so I quit taking it. What do you think, why would it work? I took it like 2 weeks and it worked all the time, I was so happy I could manage this so simple. Maybe apple cider modified my gut flora a little bit so now I am constantly reacting to precum even when I am sleeping?


I have no idea on this one. Could be psychosomatic, or could perhaps be related to the neurotransmitter concept above.

Or it could be related to your frequency of ejaculation.

Another test would be to try and cut back frequency to once a week or twice a month (I'm just making assumptions here on how often you do this), then add back in the apple cider vinegar, and see if it makes a difference.



I tried the qi exercises you gave me and it really helped, I am not waking up in the middle of the night anymore, I just wake up in the morning but weakened, I guess nocturnal erections still trigger my POIS every night..


Awesome! I am so glad to hear that. This means you've probably been dealing with chronic stress and you're starting to work back to a better baseline.

My thought on waking up in the middle of the night is two-fold:

* Increased frequency of urination - which is the body eliminating the build-up of adrenaline in the blood stream, because we are not properly manufacturing enough hormones to counteract the imbalance
* The increase of adrenaline itself is triggering the fight-or-flight response, based on some type of stimulus at night.

During the night, the body runs through cycles of cleaning out organs systematically, and in sequence. There are a bunch of articles and YouTube videos about ancient Chinese medicine on which organs get activated during what timeframe at night based on a normal circadian rhythm (Kidneys at 3:00 am, Lungs at 4:00 am, etc), and the time of night you wake up indicates what organs you are having trouble with.

For me, I would always wake up around 3:00 - 3:30 am. My guess is that the kidneys kick on to flush, adrenals on top of the kidneys are stimulated, and adrenaline is released. Since calming the sympathetic nervous response, I have stopped waking up at 3:00 am. Now I just wake up at 5:00 or 6:00 to pee once, I think out of circadian habit (which is better than the 3 times per night with the adrenaline surging and insomnia).



I need to figure out how to stop NOCTURNAL ERECTIONS that are causing me precum because I can not recover completely in such conditions.

Again just my theory on this one, but I think you're dealing with an impaired limbic system that has wired and imprinted sexual arousal to the "trauma" of POIS cascade, so your body jumps into fight-or-flight before orgasm even happens. It's a protection mechanism from your brain.

Similar to the above re: nightly cleaning, the body provokes nocturnal erections just to check and make sure all systems are good and generate blood flow.

If you want to reduce the nocturnal erections, a low dose prescription for an SSRI antidepressant may help. They are notorious for causing sexual dysfunction / low libido / erection problems. Higher circulating serotonin = less need for mating.

I would not suggest this be the only reason to jump on an SSRI though.

I would suggest working on rewiring the limbic system, if you are willing. This takes routine practice and exposure, and belief in your brain's ability to adapt with new neuroplasticity.

You could start with "thinking" or "imagining" about arousal and having a nocturnal erection, but don't touch yourself, look at porn, or try to become aroused. Just imagine the feeling of what it's like to be aroused.

Before doing this though, channel a "favorable memory" from the past. One that left you feeling fulfilled, excited, happy, and in a state of content. A surprise birthday party, winning an award, something that has no negative baggage with it. Focus on the feeling in the body. Spend several minutes with it. What did you see during that time? Smell? Hear? Feel? The body then starts releasing hormones that mimic that moment in time.

Then start the erection imagination. Then correlate the feelings together.

The brain does not remember "time", so the hormonal imprint of the "good feeling" can be cross-wired to the nocturnal erection experience.

Over time this can undo the challenged limbic system to prevent the protection response from happening unconsciously. Neurons that fire together wire together, and neurons that aren't used are pruned away (the old trauma pathway).

This - in part - is the method used in the Neural Retaining Program to rewire the limbic system for chronic conditions (https://retrainingthebrain.com).

estefan99

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Re: This got worse (isolation and POIS)
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 04:56:11 AM »
Fast forward 2021 I found what was really happening to me...
(I know it's a little late to reply to this topic but here's how it went)

I was stuck in a fight or flight mode, I was so scared because I didn't know what was happening to me that I blamed POIS for all of this. I was stucked in a loop because I was scared and stressed out.
I was so scared that I lived in derealization mode for 3-4 months.

I was prescribed amytriptiline for tension headaches, it worked on relieving them, very slow process but it worked in the end. Another big thing that happened to me during the process of recovery was that wet dreams wouldn't affect me anymore after I had them. In fact they relieved more tension because I could tell a difference. I was so happy.

Unfortunately I relapsed 3 times in total - 1 time /week last month due too much arousal.
The third week I relapsed hit me very hard with a derealization state that would go away after 1 or 2 days. BUT despite that fact, tension headaches went away completely right now.
Now, the big problem is that I enter a derealization state every time I have a wet dream. It boosts my anxiety through the roof and I feel so helpless.

I was just curious, did anybody else experienced it like this and eventually got rid of derealization after having a w/d? Could this be because of the weather changes too? I remember having bad POIS in spring. Or maybe I am just too stressed again?

Thanks, take care of yourself!

« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 05:03:31 AM by estefan99 »