The root couse of POIS Mercury intolerance))leaky gut))Mercury retention))POIS

[aswinpras06]

Bile salt pills taken after meals did not prevent the malabsorption.  I took them for 4 meals and found no difference.  I will try for another three days and stop if same thing happens.

Dear Igy78

Please tell me whether Silimarin and artichoke to be taken before meals or after meals for best results.    Many of the digestive enzymes work better when taken before eating a meal.  Is it the same for artichoke and silimarin?

[drop247]

It really does act fast. I'm in the beginning of POIS and it knocked down my headache and sinus inflammation in under 5 minutes. Faster than regular antihistamines. It seems to work better than quercetin. Maybe I should be taking Milk Thistle everyday since I never really get out of POIS anymore.

[Muon]

"It has been reported that silymarin inhibits cytochrome P450 enzymes..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silibinin

"iron chelating and antioxidant properties"---->ROS?

[Igy78]

Bile salt pills taken after meals did not prevent the malabsorption.  I took them for 4 meals and found no difference.  I will try for another three days and stop if same thing happens.

Dear Igy78

Please tell me whether Silimarin and artichoke to be taken before meals or after meals for best results.    Many of the digestive enzymes work better when taken before eating a meal.  Is it the same for artichoke and silimarin?

2 pills in the morning, 1 at noon and 1 at evening. That's sweet spot for me. I take extra pill when i start to feel little symptoms.

[quikot]

I've been experimenting with Artichoke and Milk Thisle recently. Some positive effects are: jaundice disappeared, more alert, quieter tinnitus, improved eye photosensitivity, face looks more alive.

However, got one bad side effect: almost constant chest pain. Could it be that I have gallstones which obstruct increased bile production, causing me chest pain? Stopped taking these two supplements for now. I will have an ultrasound scan later this month to see if I have gallstones or any other liver problems. Insufficient flow of bile can lead to SIBO, which could lead to POIS, in theory.

[aswinpras06]

I've been experimenting with Artichoke and Milk Thisle recently. Some positive effects are: jaundice disappeared, more alert, quieter tinnitus, improved eye photosensitivity, face looks more alive.

However, got one bad side effect: almost constant chest pain. Could it be that I have gallstones which obstruct increased bile production, causing me chest pain? Stopped taking these two supplements for now. I will have an ultrasound scan later this month to see if I have gallstones or any other liver problems. Insufficient flow of bile can lead to SIBO, which could lead to POIS, in theory.

Do you have any asthma or allergic rhinitis.  Artichoke is known to trigger or worsen asthma problem.  That may be the reason for your chest pain.  But please check with your doctor for gallstones.

[quikot]

Do you have any asthma or allergic rhinitis.  Artichoke is known to trigger or worsen asthma problem.  That may be the reason for your chest pain.  But please check with your doctor for gallstones.

Well this is an unlikely case for me as I don't have asthma or any allergies at all except hay-fever. But it's good that you pointed this out for other users.

[Muon]

I've read Sylimarin is a mast cell stabilizer.

Bingo https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bph.12138

And about the mental sharpness; MCs communicate with glial cells.

Mast Cells Promote Non?Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease Phenotypes and Microvesicular Steatosis in Mice Fed Western Diet

[Investigator]

I had an ultrasound exam and the doctor said the liver is OK, nothing about fatty liver. Still, it is true that I felt better when I tried silymarin a couple of months ago. 

[aswinpras06]

It really does act fast. I'm in the beginning of POIS and it knocked down my headache and sinus inflammation in under 5 minutes. Faster than regular antihistamines. It seems to work better than quercetin. Maybe I should be taking Milk Thistle everyday since I never really get out of POIS anymore.

Hi Drop247

How much milk thistle did you take 250mg or 500.  Whether with food or on empty stomach.  I currently take 250mg milk thistle before each meal.  I also have severe sinus problems.

[drop247]

Milk Thistle Seed Standardized 80% Extract (Silybum marianum L.) 250 mg (Providing 200 mg of Silymarin) with a meal.

[Igy78]

Hi guys, little feedback, i did gastroscopy/endoscopy and not a great news, doctor found hiatus hernia, gerd, erosive Gastritis and Duodenitis, so no wonder i was food intolerant, what is funny i reacted to exactly same kinds of foods which is forbidden on a diet for erosive gastritis/gerd/duodenitis. No cold cuts, no diary, no mayo, no butter, no bacon, no vinegar and so on. I am reacting to those foods with POIS symptoms, after orgasm even more. I make it worse by smoking cigarette and vaping e cig. Anyway i did found great relief with syllimarin and artichoke pill, that pills are reducing inflammation so i started to feel better not knowing that pills are actually reducing inflammation on mentioned problems in stomach. At first i started taking it for the liver. Finally some luck  . Symptoms dropped by 70-80%. And i can eat "forbidden" foods bit by bit in smaller quantities, where before even when i just look at those food i got POIS symptoms. And also when i fast for 24+ hours i feel great. So problem was in my stomach all the time, amazing how stupid i was with my theories  . Probably mercury have fingers in all that. Doctor prescribed antacid so i can slowly heal all my problems. I almost forgot that sleeping on a belly in a upright position with elevated body was a lifechanger for me. Probably less acid goes to esophagus that way while sleeping or less gerd i have. I did biopsy for h.pylory and will found out in a few days. Will give another feedback in a few weeks. All the best.

[drop247]

Thanks for the update. Fasting also helps me a lot whether it be single 24-36 hour fasts or daily 16 hour intermittent fasting. Did the doctor give any indication of what might be causing the damage to your GI tract besides H. Pylori? Histamine controls gastric acid secretion. I also seem to have GI injury in the form of silent reflux (LPR) that damages my throat, and even hurts my sinuses, tongue, and inner ear. I also have intestinal pain that I assume is gastritis from either excess acid or food sensitivities. I saw you were taking Betaine HCL, that really hurts my intestine worse than anything.

[Igy78]

Thanks for the update. Fasting also helps me a lot whether it be single 24-36 hour fasts or daily 16 hour intermittent fasting. Did the doctor give any indication of what might be causing the damage to your GI tract besides H. Pylori? Histamine controls gastric acid secretion. I also seem to have GI injury in the form of silent reflux (LPR) that damages my throat, and even hurts my sinuses, tongue, and inner ear. I also have intestinal pain that I assume is gastritis from either excess acid or food sensitivities. I saw you were taking Betaine HCL, that really hurts my intestine worse than anything.

I told my doctor that i am taking betain hcl pills and i feel better, and he said that i will never heal because keeping constant normal acid in stomach can not heal problems that i have. To heal i must now lower stomach acid for a period of time. I will consume that antacid pill for 4 weeks every day. He said that he does not recommend betain hcl pills, i asked him but why i feel better on betain pills he said that he does not know. And that i can do even more damage with that problems that i have. Very weird situation where i feel better from betain pills but i can do more damage.

 I did stopped with betain hcl pills 2 weeks a go to test to see can syllimarin/artichoke pills replace betain and i did feel good and i think i can go without betain pils. Doctor said that i must avoid soda, cola, fanta, sprite, especially artificial sweeteners like aspartam (Orbit chewing gum) and so on. I should avoid also, fatty/greasy food, diary. Also need to avoid foods that require stronger stomach acid. I did consume all those thing from when i was 14-15 y old in huge quantities, especially cola, fanta, sprite, so all that damaged my gi tract over the years. I did not eat any vegetable, only pommes frites and hot dogs and pizzas. I did have little symptoms back then in young days but i thought then that it's nothing serious until 3 years ago when i started vaping like a madman. Doctor also said that i need to avoid cigarettes and e cigs, luckily i stopped that 2 years ago.

I also remember that i started 3 years a go to drink 4-6 liters od sprite with aspartam every day for a month and started to feel stronger symptoms, food intolerance showed up, low self confidence/ esteem, suicidal thoughts, sense of doom, remembering bad/cringe/shame situations in life. Everyone hates me and feelings like that. So soda/aspartam surely inflamed my intestines. I did feel worse with cola zero than regular sugary cola. Symptoms always got worse after sex/or fapping and lasted for weeks. Now it's different story, not drinking all that drinks anymore, stopped with junk food long time a go. Probably syllimarin/artichoke has speed up healing of GI tract.  Maybe it lowers acid stomach, can not be sure on that.

Yesterday i tried very little amount of mayo and milder symptoms came back after 30-40 minutes of eating mayo until i digested that mayo for a few hours. It's a amount of time needed for food to get to the beginning of the small intestine, and i got there inflamation (Duodentitis). It was very tolerable. Before symptoms lasted for a week if i did eat "forbidden" food for my gastrointestinal problems. So i think i can find myself cured when i can eat vinegar , mayo and bacon without any symptoms or when food intolerance stop completely.

When you say that fasting helps you i think you surely have some inflamation. Because there is no contact of food with intestines and there are no POIS symptoms. Almost identical as my case.

[aswinpras06]

Dear Igy78

Even I had gastritis and Helicobacter infection when I had endoscopy few years back.  The antacid and antibiotics never worked and my gastroenterologist ordered colonoscopy and some other tests but could not find out what is the cause of my chronic digestion problems and asked me to do further advanced tests which I declined.  I regret not following up with my gastrodoctor because some thing might have been known about our disease if I have done them.

[drop247]

I'm the same way. Betaine HCL or even just Apple Cider Vinegar makes my digestion incredible and makes me feel energized and great. Perfectly formed no wipe stools. Unfortunately it absolutely destroys the tissues of my GI tract which can't seem to tolerate the increased acid at all.

I've always been sensitive to acid. My entire family can't handle acidic foods like tomatoes or pineapples or we get terrible canker sores in our mouths.

I've experimented with digestive enzymes that don't contain Bromelain, which are harder to find but do exist. Anything with Bromelain (enzyme from Pineapples) will start eroding the tissues of my throat due to my silent reflux bringing the enzyme back up into my esophagus and it digesting my tissues like it would any other meat.

I don't think digestive enzymes are the answer though and will instead now try to increase my bile production, like you, or I will try to change my microbiome with increased prebiotic fiber and perhaps temporary probiotics supplements and fermented foods. Though I'm concerned about the histamine content of fermented foods since histamine seems involved in my POIS.

Do you have loose light colored, yellowish, or otherwise not brown stools? I do and am trying to investigate what that indicates. I also have a lot of undigested food in my stools.

[Journey]

I'm the same way. Betaine HCL or even just Apple Cider Vinegar makes my digestion incredible and makes me feel energized and great. Perfectly formed no wipe stools. Unfortunately it absolutely destroys the tissues of my GI tract which can't seem to tolerate the increased acid at all.

I've always been sensitive to acid. My entire family can't handle acidic foods like tomatoes or pineapples or we get terrible canker sores in our mouths.

I've experimented with digestive enzymes that don't contain Bromelain, which are harder to find but do exist. Anything with Bromelain (enzyme from Pineapples) will start eroding the tissues of my throat due to my silent reflux bringing the enzyme back up into my esophagus and it digesting my tissues like it would any other meat.

I don't think digestive enzymes are the answer though and will instead now try to increase my bile production, like you, or I will try to change my microbiome with increased prebiotic fiber and perhaps temporary probiotics supplements and fermented foods. Though I'm concerned about the histamine content of fermented foods since histamine seems involved in my POIS.

Do you have loose light colored, yellowish, or otherwise not brown stools? I do and am trying to investigate what that indicates. I also have a lot of undigested food in my stools.

I often have yellowish stools

[Investigator]

Thanks for the update, Igy78, your input is really helpful. It's good you got specific problems diagnosed and know how to approach them.

I've had stomach issues for a long time, but I never associated them with POIS, since 1) I had them long before my POIS started, and 2) many people have stomach issues, can't tolerate acid foods, etc. What is interesting, though, is that 2 weeks before my POIS started, I had acute stomach problems, diarrhea and vomiting, as a result from eating eggs that had gone bad. Maybe those spoiled eggs added something to contribute to my microbiome? Who knows what was in them. I used to drink cola but have quit it completely about 20 years ago (with POIS starting about 4 years ago).

I have problems with acid food, like tomatoes - my belly inflates, gets filled with some sort of gas and I feel some type of expansion from the inside taking place. This disappears if I lay on my back for some time, and I've had it long before POIS, that's why I've always thought of it as an unrelated and more minor problem. 

An interesting observation: there is a certain NSAID, dexofen (active ingredient is dexketoprofen), which, despite being anti-inflammatory, on its own seems to activate my POIS! Well, it causes stomach disturbance (any time I take it) + activation of POIS (most of the time). What do you think? On the one hand, NSAID's should have positive effect on our POIS. But here, even days after orgasm, this triggers POIS if I take it. Maybe it irritates the stomach and that in turn brings about POIS symptoms? What irritates the stomach need not be the active ingredient, but one of the minor ingredients. That would be consistent with some kind of "gut-induced" theory for POIS

Can anyone propose a possible connection between ejaculation and activation of gut inflammation? I don't know enough internal medicine to imagine how the two would be related.

[aswinpras06]

Hi Investigator

Mast cells.  This is the most likely connection and could be the exact reason.  Mast cell activation disorder is likely the cause of all our miseries.  But the method to stop this is a very difficult because each of us are unique and only through trial and error we can find out what works for us.

[Journey]

Hi Investigator

Mast cells.  This is the most likely connection and could be the exact reason.  Mast cell activation disorder is likely the cause of all our miseries.  But the method to stop this is a very difficult because each of us are unique and only through trial and error we can find out what works for us.

What could have induced the mast cell activation disorder in the first place and what would be the long term treatment for that which would ensure they never degranulate and cause all of those symptoms?