Author Topic: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy  (Read 27809 times)

slon_ik

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #120 on: August 09, 2020, 05:28:25 PM »
Hi slon_ik,

Thanks for the question
1. The answer to your question can be found here (Diseases associated with herpes virus infection). Many viral infections do not disappear, they remain latent and cause life-long disease.
  The increase in NK cell immune response to orgasm should not depend on what infections you have. It is a genetically encoded action of the immune system that prevents viral reactivation and spread. All people should have an immune response to sexual activity to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted disease (STD/STI) and guard sperm transit through the uterus. But some infections (virus/bacteria/fungi) try to prevent or evade this immune response.

2. The answer to your question can be found here (POIS as a location-specific herpes infection). Most herpes viral infections are local and isolated to a specific part of the body. For some people, HSV-1 causes cold-sores on there lips but no where else on their body. Herpes viruses, HPV, hepatitis viruses and many other viruses produce mostly local symptoms from local (isolated) infection.

I hope that helps.  :)

Спасибо за ответ! ))

Ваши теории понятны и весьма похожи на истину.

Но я всегда задаю простые вопросы ))

У всех людей с герпесом будет POIS?

На этот вопрос вы отвечаете, что POIS отличается локализацией герпеса в участке ЦНС.

Тогда следующий простой вопрос.
У всех людей с герпесом в локальном участке ЦНС будет POIS?
Я думаю, что герпес может быть одной из причин поражения ЦНС, которые дают симптомы POIS. И тогда основной акцент надо делать не на герпес и его лечение, а на участок ЦНС и механизмы его работы.

Спасибо ))
И прощу прощение, что долго не отвечал ))


Thanks for the answer! ))

Your theories are understandable and very similar to the truth.

But I always ask simple questions))

Will all people with herpes have POIS?

To this question, you answer that POIS differs in the localization of herpes in the central nervous system.

Then the next simple question.
Will all people with herpes at the local CNS have POIS?
I think that herpes can be one of the causes of CNS lesions that give POIS symptoms. And then the main emphasis should be placed not on herpes and its treatment, but on the central nervous system and the mechanisms of its work.

Thank ))
And forgive me for not answering for a long time))

nanna1

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #121 on: August 13, 2020, 12:00:02 AM »
Will all people with herpes have POIS?

To this question, you answer that POIS differs in the localization of herpes in the central nervous system.

Then the next simple question.
Will all people with herpes at the local CNS have POIS?
Hi slon_ik,
Thanks for the questions. Virus latency is an important concept in this hypothesis. See link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_latency
  slon_ik, there are still unanswered questions in POIS research though. Originally, I thought POIS might be triggered from the CNS, but now I'm thinking it is triggered in the autonomic nervous system. I just haven't updated that post that I sent you to reflect this. Sorry for the confusion.
  My guess is that there is a latent infection somewhere in the autonomic (sympathetic/parasympathetic/enteric) nervous system that is reactivated by adrenergic (adrenaline/noradrenaline) stimulation. The majority of people on earth have localized herpes infections and each persons infection location/volume is slightly different. Part of this hypothesis is that, if the person does not have the infection in the specific POIS location within the nervous system, they will likely not have POIS.

  So far, the submitted POISer data (MRI, CT of the brain) does not show brain lesions. Are you aware of medical data from POISers that show lesions? That would be very important information for identifying the location in the body where POIS could be triggered. I don't have enough evidence to show that herpes viruses are the infections. Several herpes viruses do have the properties of being reactivated by adrenergic receptors, latency, and COX-2 upregulation, but so do other viruses like human papillomavirus (HPV). Bacteria involvement has also not been ruled out as a cause or co-cause of POIS.

And then the main emphasis should be placed not on herpes and its treatment, but on the central nervous system and the mechanisms of its work.
  COX-2 inhibitors (indomethacin, diclofenac, celecoxib) and alpha-blockers (terazosin, alfuzosin, silodosin) have shown some effect clinically at blocking the trigger of POIS and POIS-like syndromes in medical studies. But these drugs only work when they are taken prior to orgasm. Discussion about the POIS trigger can be found here.
  The original post is focus on addressing a potential root cause (localized viral infections and immune suppression). The reason I'm focusing on potential root causes is that I think there is a path to long-term improvement (immune competence) such that the number of supplements/drug that a person takes could be reduced/eliminated over time. This is what happened in my case. I only take vitamin D3 now. I hope this helps.  :)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 12:03:47 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

berlin1984

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #122 on: August 13, 2020, 02:58:22 AM »
The reason I'm focusing on potential root causes is that I think there is a path to long-term improvement (immune competence) such that the number of supplements/drug that a person takes could be reduced/eliminated over time. This is what happened in my case. I only take vitamin D3 now.

Are you sure it's mainly about immune competence?
The reason I'm asking is that you did several "broad spectrum pathogen removal" things (IV Vitamin C, copper, ... possibly more I forgot) and at some point your immune system was strong enough to kill off the rest of the "pathogens" (obviously with help of the immune improvement things like D, zinc, AHCC etc).

What I mean is: Both things need to be done for effective treatment?
(See also the people who fixed POIS with antibiotics or fungal removal or whatever..)

Journey

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency theory of POIS
« Reply #123 on: August 13, 2020, 03:09:36 AM »
hi nanna1, i could say i also noticed correlation between POIS condition and pre-workout packs
I have never attached importance but after your post im looking for consistency of those mixes and the most powerful ingridients are citrulline malate 8g and 320mg of caffeine.
so, it was about 30-40% relief.

But, just wanna add some comment:
-My POIS has developed slowly, it took 3 days to revocer on the start 5 years ago, 7-10 day 2 years ago but now it never ends, just becoming stronger after powerful stimulation or eujaculation
how can you include that fact to your theory about CD8+ T cells expansion?
-i also have only cognitive symptoms but their power is really frightful, its so much brainfog and cognitive impairment all the time so i cant really contact people cause of that.
-i have unidentified rheuamothoid arhtritis but i havenot any markers of that  except CRP so my hips and knees are a little bit inflamed all the time but it started 2 years before POIS

hello worldwide sufferers from Russia :)
What's ur CRP?

nanna1

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #124 on: August 13, 2020, 04:51:06 PM »
What I mean is: Both things need to be done for effective treatment?
(See also the people who fixed POIS with antibiotics or fungal removal or whatever..)
Hi berlin,

  You are correct that biocidals (antivirals, antibiotics, antifungals, probiotics, copper, vitamin C IV, etc...) are helpful in eliminating infections that may cause POIS symptoms. If the immune system is suppressed or compromised, removing infections directly through biocides is one of the quickest ways to help restore immune function. Even if the biocide is only partially effective at removing pathogens, that could be enough to help change the balance in favor of your immune system being able to defend itself and the body. I'm not sure if it is possible to regain immune competence without using biocidals since I personally used copper and vitamin C IV for that purpose. Thanks for making that point :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 05:10:59 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

slon_ik

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #125 on: August 16, 2020, 04:20:45 PM »


Я прочитал Ваши теории, и они весьма интересны. Приведу некоторые мысли, которые возникли при ознакомлении с Вашими теориями.

Вы говорите, что POIS  в вегетативной нервной системе, а не в ЦНС. Я долгое время проводил опрос и изучал описания течения болезни. И пришел к выводу, что одним из симптомов POIS является гиперсексуальность. Об этом мало кто говорит прямо, так как свои ощущения нельзя сравнить с чужими. Но больные часто говорят, что хотят секса всегда, даже когда им совсем плохо. И даже хотят секса больше, когда им плохо. Но здоровый человек если ему от секса становится плохо - станет асексуалом или импотентом. А человек с POIS не становится, значит есть симптом гиперсексуальности. И этот симптом в голове, В ЦНС. А значит и причина POIS  может быть в голове.

Но если Вы говорите про вегетативную нервную систему, то надо смотреть крестцовый и поясничный отдел спинного мозга, которые связаны с эрекцией и эякуляцией. И нервы от этих отделов к члену и промежности. Потому что и тут может быть причина гиперсексуальности.


Теперь немного статистики. Я как то считал примерно сколько людей больны POIS. За основу я брал число людей на форуме, умножал на 100, так как про форум могут знать мало кто, а кто то не хочет регистрироваться. И получалось , что больных POIS примерно 1 на 10 000 населения. Это очень примерно, но нам важен порядок числа. То есть это очень редкая болезнь! А значит можно смело откидывать все возможные причины, которые встречаются часто! Это очень упрощает поиск причины  POIS.

И вот тут можно откинуть и все распространенные вирусы и инфекции, в том числе герпес. И даже если учесть локальное расположение герпеса, то мне кажется, что всё равно это будет намного чаще, чем 1 на 10 000. Это всего лишь мнение , а не утверждение ))


Я делал себе очень много исследований, и очень много анализов. В том числе МРТ головного мозга. Там выявлено 2 интересных нарушения. Субарахноидальное пространство расширено, что говорит об отеке ЦНС. И у меня часто болит голова, в том числе всегда при POIS. Ещё провисает диафрагма гипофиза, что я связываю как раз с неправильным регулированием стресса эякуляции и возбуждения. Поэтому я и говорю, что POIS  в ЦНС расположен в области гипоталамуса, гипофиза и миндалины. И тот же герпес тогда может локализоваться там же, это для Вашей теории ))


Про ЦОГ-2 тоже интересно. Я купировал POIS больше 20 лет блокаторами ЦОГ (ацетилсалециловая кислота и кофеин). Но сейчас они уже почти не работают. Это я связываю с тем, что система воспаления как бы складывается из составляющих, Вы об отом много тут говорили. И при увеличении чего то одного , других нужно меньше для воспаления. К примеру, увеличение гистамина будет запускать воспаление и отек в ЦНС даже при меньших уровнях простагладинов с ЦОГ. Сейчас я купирую симптомы воспаления большим количеством мочегонных, я пью по 2,5 литра чая в день )) То есть, я хочу обратить внимание, что не обязательно сбита иммунная система, может быть сбита просто система воспаления. И даже небольшие естественные скачки иммунитета запускают излишнее воспаление.

Так же я перепробовал все витамины, микроэлементы, аминокислоты и многое другое в лечении. Я провел более 100 экспериментов по лечению )) Сейчас я постоянно принимаю B1 50 мг., B6 10 мг, Zn 20 мг., Mn 5 мг,  витамин C 200 мг, а так же витамины A, E, B12 и иногда другое.

Кстати, D3 у меня вызывает обострение воспалений!


I have read your theories and they are quite interesting. I will cite some thoughts that arose when familiarizing myself with your theories.

You say that POIS is in the autonomic nervous system and not in the CNS. For a long time I conducted a survey and studied descriptions of the course of the disease. And I came to the conclusion that one of the symptoms of POIS is hypersexuality. Few people speak about this directly, since their feelings cannot be compared with others. But patients often say that they always want sex, even when they feel really bad. And they even want sex more when they feel bad. But a healthy person, if he gets sick from sex, will become asexual or impotent. A person with POIS does not become, which means there is a symptom of hypersexuality. And this symptom is in the head, in the central nervous system. This means that the reason for POIS may be in the head.

But if you are talking about the autonomic nervous system, then you need to look at the sacral and lumbar spinal cord, which are associated with erection and ejaculation. And the nerves from these sections to the penis and perineum. Because there may be a reason for hypersexuality.


Now some statistics. I somehow counted about how many people are sick with POIS. As a basis, I took the number of people on the forum, multiplied by 100, since few people can know about the forum, and someone does not want to register. And it turned out that POIS patients are about 1 per 10,000 population. This is very rough, but the order of the number is important to us. That is, it is a very rare disease! So you can safely discard all possible causes that are common! This makes it very easy to find the cause of POIS.

And here you can discard all common viruses and infections, including herpes. And even if we take into account the local location of herpes, it seems to me that it will still be much more often than 1 in 10,000. This is just an opinion, not a statement))


I've done myself a lot of research, and a lot of analyzes. Including MRI of the brain. There are 2 interesting violations revealed. The subarachnoid space is enlarged, which indicates edema of the central nervous system. And I often have a headache, including always with POIS. The pituitary diaphragm also sags, which I associate with the wrong regulation of the stress of ejaculation and arousal. That is why I say that POIS in the central nervous system is located in the hypothalamus, pituitary and amygdala. And the same herpes can then be localized in the same place, this is for your theory))


About TsOG-2 is also interesting. I have stopped POIS for over 20 years with COX blockers (acetylsalecylic acid and caffeine). But now they hardly work anymore. I associate this with the fact that the inflammation system is, as it were, made up of components, you talked about this a lot here. And with an increase in one thing, less others are needed for inflammation. For example, an increase in histamine will trigger inflammation and edema in the central nervous system even with lower levels of prostagladins with COX. Now I stop the symptoms of inflammation with a large amount of diuretics, I drink 2.5 liters of tea a day)) That is, I want to draw your attention to the fact that the immune system is not necessarily brought down, the inflammation system may simply be brought down. And even small natural surges in immunity trigger excessive inflammation.

I also tried all vitamins, trace elements, amino acids and much more in the treatment. I have conducted more than 100 treatment experiments)) Now I am constantly taking B1 50 mg, B6 10 mg, Zn 20 mg, Mn 5 mg, vitamin C 200 mg, as well as vitamins A, E, B12 and sometimes more.

By the way, D3 aggravates my inflammation!

Journey

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #126 on: August 17, 2020, 05:02:26 AM »
What it means if when I was ill I didn't have POIS?

berlin1984

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #127 on: August 23, 2020, 04:27:20 AM »
That is why I say that POIS in the central nervous system is located in the hypothalamus, pituitary and amygdala. And the same herpes can then be localized in the same place, this is for your theory))
=>
"Perrin hypothesized that blocked or congested lymphatic drainage pathways in ME/CFS and FM were causing toxins to build up in the central nervous system. That toxin buildup was disturbing the hypothalamus, which, in turn, was causing sympathetic nervous system problems."
"Noting the specificity some viruses have for certain tissues, he proposes that the viruses involved in ME/CFS may be attacking the sympathetic nerves in the upper chest and lumbar regions.  Several herpes viruses are known to hang out in the nerve ganglia found just outside of the spine."

Prospero

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #128 on: August 24, 2020, 06:46:08 AM »
Hello,

First of all, thank you very much Nanna for your amazing work here. I'm completely buying much of your theory, though I would still be interested in researching if there could be other causes of endorphin receptors dysfunction than pathogens.
I don't have a scientific background so I will probably not be able to make relevant comments but I'm pondering some remarks for another occasion. (I'm considering making a detailed topic somewhere on my own experience with Pois, observations, feedbacks, questions, tests, etc.)

As for now, I have several practical questions : 1) did more than one people here try the anti-transient immune suppression prepack with some success ?
2) Could somebody explain the role of N-acetyl L-tyrosine in the prepack ? I may have missed it.
3) Could those who tried the immune competence supplements and IV vitamin C make an update on their current situation, after some months have passed ?

Many thanks to all, this forum is incredibly informative and thought-provoking.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 04:19:26 PM by Prospero »

nanna1

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #129 on: August 26, 2020, 05:18:59 PM »
...though I would still be interested in researching if there could be other causes of endorphin receptors dysfunction than pathogens....
There are other ways for endorphin receptors dysfunction or endorphin release dysfunction. I am more in favor of the endorphin release dysfunction hypothesis. Genetics could play a role. Some people report VDR taq (+/- or +/+) which could increase norepinephrine by decreasing the effectiveness of COMT. I suspect endorphin signaling is a problem because it is consistent with the data from POIS studies. But that does not mean there aren't other explainations.


2) Could somebody explain the role of N-acetyl L-tyrosine in the prepack ? I may have missed it...
Caffeine can deplete dopamine levels which leads to jitters and irritability. N-acetyl L-tyrosine helps to prevent the this depletion in dopamine and helps reduces some side effects of dopamine depletion.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 05:51:21 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

nanna1

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #130 on: August 26, 2020, 06:53:57 PM »
Hi slan_ik,

Thanks for your question and comments. There are several POIS papers and medical data submitted by POISers that could answer your questions.
But a healthy person, if he gets sick from sex, will become asexual or impotent. A person with POIS does not become, which means there is a symptom of hypersexuality. And this symptom is in the head, in the central nervous system. This means that the reason for POIS may be in the head.
Several POIS papers, surveys and case studies show that POISers are less sexual than the general population. In general, POIS papers report that many POISers avoid sex and orgasm.
"To avoid a post-ejaculatory reaction, 63 respondents (68.5%) avoided sexual intercourse frequently or always and 69 respondents (75.0%) avoided masturbation frequently or always. Negative impacts to romantic life was reported frequently or always in 74 respondents (80.4%)."
-Characterizing the Epidemiological Landscape of Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. The Journal of Sexual Medicine, 17(1), S40.

Now some statistics. I somehow counted about how many people are sick with POIS. As a basis, I took the number of people on the forum, multiplied by 100, since few people can know about the forum, and someone does not want to register. And it turned out that POIS patients are about 1 per 10,000 population. This is very rough, but the order of the number is important to us. That is, it is a very rare disease!
Usually a statistical result has a statistical error. The error is what gives meaning to the result. Neutropenia (low immune cell count) in POIS has been statistically validated with a statistical error defined by a 90% confidence interval.
I do not include all the POISers that report low immune cell count because of potential publication bias. But there are many others who have also reported that they have neutropenia.

And here you can discard all common viruses and infections, including herpes. And even if we take into account the local location of herpes, it seems to me that it will still be much more often than 1 in 10,000. This is just an opinion, not a statement))
Having a rare disease is not rare. Most people have rare diseases, but the specific rare disease varies from person to person. Herpes viruses case many rare diseases. The full answer to your question can be found here.


I've done myself a lot of research, and a lot of analyzes. Including MRI of the brain. There are 2 interesting violations revealed. The subarachnoid space is enlarged, which indicates edema of the central nervous system. And I often have a headache, including always with POIS. The pituitary diaphragm also sags, which I associate with the wrong regulation of the stress of ejaculation and arousal. That is why I say that POIS in the central nervous system is located in the hypothalamus, pituitary and amygdala. And the same herpes can then be localized in the same place, this is for your theory))
This data would be a very valuable contribution to the POIS community. If you have the rights to share it, would you post the medical data here (Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results).


For example, an increase in histamine will trigger inflammation and edema in the central nervous system even with lower levels of prostagladins with COX. Now I stop the symptoms of inflammation with a large amount of diuretics, I drink 2.5 liters of tea a day)) That is, I want to draw your attention to the fact that the immune system is not necessarily brought down, the inflammation system may simply be brought down. And even small natural surges in immunity trigger excessive inflammation.
Here is some medical data on histamine and inflammation parameters in POISers. In normal people, histamine levels decrease during sexual activity.
POIS medical data.
--3 of us show normal histamine levels (nanna1 tested histamine, itsmel and Muon tested histamine and N-methyl-histamine).
--1 of us show low histamine levels (Simon66, tested histamine and N-methyl-histamine)

  Inflammation
--3 show normal C reactive protein (CRP) (kingfisher, certainlypois2, BluesBrother, Simon66)
--1 reports high CRP (IronFeather)
--3 show normal ESR (Simon66, nanna1, certainlypois2)
--1 complement system activity (C3a, C4) normal (BluesBrother)



By the way, D3 aggravates my inflammation!
As far as I know, the vitamin receptors do not have any inflammatory pathways. I don't think it is possible for vitamin D3 to cause inflammation in anyone. Vitamin D does stimulate increased immune activation to infections though. I hope this helps :)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 12:40:11 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

slon_ik

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #131 on: August 29, 2020, 10:49:43 AM »
That is why I say that POIS in the central nervous system is located in the hypothalamus, pituitary and amygdala. And the same herpes can then be localized in the same place, this is for your theory))
=>
"Perrin hypothesized that blocked or congested lymphatic drainage pathways in ME/CFS and FM were causing toxins to build up in the central nervous system. That toxin buildup was disturbing the hypothalamus, which, in turn, was causing sympathetic nervous system problems."
"Noting the specificity some viruses have for certain tissues, he proposes that the viruses involved in ME/CFS may be attacking the sympathetic nerves in the upper chest and lumbar regions.  Several herpes viruses are known to hang out in the nerve ganglia found just outside of the spine."

Просто для информации ))
Когда я делал себе МРТ головы, то с лимфатическим оттоком там все было нормально.
Поэтому тут мне ближе теории от nanna1, когда причиной рассматривается не лимфатическая система, а кровеносная.


Just for information))
When I did an MRI of my head, everything was normal there with lymphatic drainage.
Therefore, the theory from nanna1 is closer to me here, when the cause is not the lymphatic system, but the circulatory system.

Muon

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #132 on: August 29, 2020, 11:16:02 AM »
By the way, D3 aggravates my inflammation!
As far as I know, the vitamin receptors do not have any inflammatory pathways. I don't think it is possible for vitamin D3 to cause inflammation in anyone. Vitamin D does stimulate increased immune activation to infections though. I hope this helps :)

Vit D deficiency may lead to overexpression of VDR in some individuals. If the immune system is already in an activated state additional vit D signaling may lead to further activation of the immune system with a result of feeling worse. This could be tested by taking immune stimulants. Slon_ik could also react to fillers in vit D supplements which is another story.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3188.msg36031#msg36031

slon_ik

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #133 on: August 29, 2020, 11:26:18 AM »
Hi slan_ik,

.......

I don't think it is possible for vitamin D3 to cause inflammation in anyone. Vitamin D does stimulate increased immune activation to infections though. I hope this helps :)

Отвечу в общем, так как трудно работать с автоматическим переводом ))

Спасибо за Ваше сообщение!

Конечно, статистически люди с POIS будут меньше заниматься сексом. Это понятно. Но я брал в основу описание больных , когда они рассказывали свои ощущения. И многие говорили о нестерпимом желании секса, особенно при плохих самочувствиях. Но наш мозг легко учится, и от POIS желание должно со временем пропасть, но этого не происходит! Вот это я и называю гиперсексуальностью. Не число секса, а его желание.


По результатам анализов мне надо время, чтобы их привести к нормальному виду для этого форума. И кроме своих результатов у меня есть также сводные таблицы по результатам анализов с русского форума. Возможно я и их постараюсь собрать. Пока скажу только одно. Мы пытались найти хотя бы что то, что по анализам было бы у всех людей с POIS. Делали много анализов по эндокринной системе. Самым близким нарушением было повышение утреннего кортизола по крови (80% больных). У остальных 20% были другие нарушения в надпочечниках. Поэтому можно сделать вывод, что эндокринные железы очень близко к первой причине POIS, но не являются этой причиной. Наиболее близки это гипоталамус и гипофиз.


Ваша информация по D3 интересна. И тут надо обратить внимание на философское понимание иммунитета )) Я не вижу иммунитет, как отдельную систему. Весь наш организм это большая система иммунитета. Есть куча клеток нашего организма, которая борется с кучей клеток не нашего организма. Это постоянная война всех против всех. И тут Вы очень точно сказали, что D3 стимулирует ответ именно на инфекции. Но проблема в том, что ответ этот почти всегда один - это воспаление, местное или общее, но воспаление. И вот если система воспаления, сбита, то даже от малейшего повышения ответа на инфекции (от D3) воспаление будет повышаться сильно. То есть первопричину понять невозможно без дополнительных исследований )) Это может быть и иммунный ответ на  инфекции, и сбой системы воспаления ))




I will answer in general, since it is difficult to work with automatic translation))

Thank you for your message!

Of course, statistically, people with POIS will have less sex. This is clear. But I took as a basis the description of the patients when they told their feelings. And many talked about the intolerable desire for sex, especially when they were not feeling well. But our brain learns easily, and from POIS desire should disappear over time, but this does not happen! This is what I call hypersexuality. Not the number of sex, but its desire.


Based on the results of the analyzes, I need time to bring them back to normal for this forum. And besides my results, I also have summary tables based on the results of analyzes from the Russian forum. Perhaps I will try to collect them. For now, I will only say one thing. We tried to find at least something that, according to the analyzes, all people with POIS would have. We did a lot of tests on the endocrine system. The closest disorder was an increase in morning blood cortisol (80% of patients). The remaining 20% ​​had other adrenal disorders. Therefore, it can be concluded that the endocrine glands are very close to the first cause of POIS, but are not this cause. The closest are the hypothalamus and pituitary gland.


Your information on D3 is interesting. And here we must pay attention to the philosophical understanding of immunity)) I do not see immunity as a separate system. Our entire body is a large immune system. There are a bunch of cells in our body that are fighting a bunch of cells not in our body. It is a constant war of all against all. And then you very accurately said that D3 stimulates the response to infections. But the problem is that this answer is almost always the same - it is inflammation, local or general, but inflammation. And if the inflammation system is knocked down, then even from the slightest increase in the response to infections (from D3), the inflammation will increase greatly. That is, it is impossible to understand the root cause without additional research)) It may be an immune response to infections, and a failure of the inflammation system))

CharlesB

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #134 on: August 30, 2020, 10:53:05 AM »
By the way, D3 aggravates my inflammation!
As far as I know, the vitamin receptors do not have any inflammatory pathways. I don't think it is possible for vitamin D3 to cause inflammation in anyone. Vitamin D does stimulate increased immune activation to infections though. I hope this helps :)

Vit D deficiency may lead to overexpression of VDR in some individuals. If the immune system is already in an activated state additional vit D signaling may lead to further activation of the immune system with a result of feeling worse. This could be tested by taking immune stimulants. Slon_ik could also react to fillers in vit D supplements which is another story.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3188.msg36031#msg36031

I used to have problems taking even a 600iu supplement of D3 - it would trigger a mini-pois episode in me and horrible brain fog (tried drops, gummies, k2 +d3, etc). 

After some research I found that not all d3 has the same derivation: 99% of products derive it from lanolin because it is much cheaper that way - I found some vegan D3 that is derived from Lichen (more and more brands have this available), and I?ve been taking 4000 iu per day (with k2 and a big spoonful of coconut oil) with 0 issues.

I know chemically the cholecalciferol is the same active ingredient in both, but my theory is that they are processed differently and there are some differences in the end product.

Long story short - normal D3 makes me very ill, but vegan D3 does not.

Iwillbeatthis

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #135 on: August 30, 2020, 03:22:05 PM »
Vitamin d with k2 gives me brain fog but normal vitamin d without vitamin k doesn't

berlin1984

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #136 on: September 08, 2020, 02:32:32 PM »
And many talked about the intolerable desire for sex, especially when they were not feeling well. But our brain learns easily, and from POIS desire should disappear over time, but this does not happen! This is what I call hypersexuality. Not the number of sex, but its desire.

Polls:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=228.0
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1166.0

slon_ik

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #137 on: September 19, 2020, 11:52:09 AM »
By the way, D3 aggravates my inflammation!
As far as I know, the vitamin receptors do not have any inflammatory pathways. I don't think it is possible for vitamin D3 to cause inflammation in anyone. Vitamin D does stimulate increased immune activation to infections though. I hope this helps :)

Vit D deficiency may lead to overexpression of VDR in some individuals. If the immune system is already in an activated state additional vit D signaling may lead to further activation of the immune system with a result of feeling worse. This could be tested by taking immune stimulants. Slon_ik could also react to fillers in vit D supplements which is another story.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3188.msg36031#msg36031

Да, думаю, что это так! По личным наблюдениям очень похоже, что не только витамин D, но все стимуляторы иммунитета, вызывают ухудшение сочувствия. К примеру, я пью ежедневно 200 мг витамина С, и не могу поднять дозу, так как мне тоже становится хуже, примерно так же, как и от витамина D.

Но вот причина и следствие опять не понятны ))
Возможно это аутоиммунное, и тогда плохо от всего, что поднимает иммунитет ещё больше.
Но возможно это сбой системы воспаления. И воспаление усиливается даже от слабых иммунных подъемов.


Yes, I think so! From personal observations, it is very likely that not only vitamin D, but all immune stimulants, cause a decrease in sympathy. For example, I drink 200 mg of vitamin C every day, and I cannot raise the dose, as I also get worse, about the same as from vitamin D.

But the cause and effect are again not clear))
Perhaps it is autoimmune, and then it is bad from everything that raises immunity even more.
But perhaps this is a failure of the inflammation system. And the inflammation is exacerbated even by weak immune rises.

slon_ik

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #138 on: September 19, 2020, 12:08:12 PM »
And many talked about the intolerable desire for sex, especially when they were not feeling well. But our brain learns easily, and from POIS desire should disappear over time, but this does not happen! This is what I call hypersexuality. Not the number of sex, but its desire.

Polls:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=228.0
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1166.0

По этим голосованиям четко видно, что больные POIS хотят секса больше, чем должны. И это странно. Если человеку от чего то плохо, то он бросает это делать. Но тут другая картина. Нам плохо, но мы всё равно делаем.

Интересно то, что это психологическая проблема, то есть она у нас в голове! Поэтому я и считаю, что основная причина POIS  в голове, в ЦНС.

Возможно это сбой системы вознаграждения! И тогда мы получаем от эякуляции больше эндорфина, чем от всего другого. Но часто больные описывают ощущения, как наоборот слабые.
Тогда есть гипотеза, что это сбой системы регулирования стресса. Тогда тут психологическое желание возникает именно после эякуляции. То есть сбой стресса эякуляции вызывает не желание отдохнуть после секса, а наоборот желание продолжить. Но дополнительно к этому сбой регулирования стресса не дает организму возможность восстановиться. И от сюда все теории по эндокринологии и иммунитету.
И есть третий случай, когда сбой идет от нарушения тазовых нервов, от нарушения блуждающего нерва. Тогда ощущения гиперсексуальности вторичны, и просто фиксируются нашим сознанием. Тут же может быть вариант с аутоиммунным заболеванием, когда иммунитет атакует половую систему.


These polls clearly show that POIS patients want sex more than they should. And this is weird. If a person feels bad from something, then he quits doing it. But here is a different picture. We feel bad, but we do it anyway.

The interesting thing is that this is a psychological problem, that is, it is in our heads! Therefore, I believe that the main reason for POIS is in the head, in the central nervous system.

Perhaps this is a failure of the reward system! And then we get more endorphin from ejaculation than from anything else. But patients often describe the sensations as, on the contrary, weak.
Then there is a hypothesis that this is a failure of the stress regulation system. Then here the psychological desire arises precisely after ejaculation. That is, the failure of ejaculation stress does not cause a desire to rest after sex, but rather a desire to continue. But in addition to this, failure to regulate stress prevents the body from recovering. And from here all theories on endocrinology and immunity.
And there is a third case when the failure comes from a violation of the pelvic nerves, from a violation of the vagus nerve. Then the sensations of hypersexuality are secondary, and are simply fixed by our consciousness. There may also be an option with an autoimmune disease, when the immune system attacks the reproductive system.

Muon

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #139 on: September 19, 2020, 12:15:59 PM »
But perhaps this is a failure of the inflammation system. And the inflammation is exacerbated even by weak immune rises.

Immune activated state making you weak as in Th1 polarization (good against viral infection, not so good when it's not needed anymore and you keep getting stuck in that same state). Immune stimulants may skew it further towards Th1 activation. Steroids could have a positive effect.