Histamines for POIS? (Thread about Antihistamines too)

[Starsky]

after red wine i get every time head ache, congestion. Something like POIS

[Daveman]

First, we don t know if Niacin works for everybody, so we can make Hypothesis !
Only XN works and it has a vasodilatator function, so much more than Niacin... so according to me, the XN by injection has nothing to do with Niacin consequences in the body.

I guess the XN should realize a "good O" with an injection before. And the "no histamine delete/diaminoxydase"does not need a huge amount to delete the too much of histamine.
So in this hypothesis, we would have a lack of diaminoxydase and a too much amount of histamine which can t be eliminated.
I guess it could be a part of the explanation/solution...

For example, alcohol has a lot of histamine and when we drink it even a little, we feel very bad... same for carbs/junkfood !

Both XN and Niacin have the same effects, although XN is stronger than the plain Niacin. Niacin like XN are known to have both vaso-dilator effects AND produce histamine release.

It's true, we have few results so far, but we can't throw out positive results of Niacin just like that. Remember this post http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.msg1932#msg1932 of a successfull Nicain test, which was preceeded by another by jivetalk where he indicated that Niacin did NOT work very well. The difference was that in the second test, the histamine release produced by Niacin was sought, by reducing the threshold through NOT taking a daily dosage, and taking the Niacin ONLY before orgasm.

I think Victor says the same about XN, that it should ONLY be taken just before (45 min. / one hour).

I wasn't actually aiming a destroying your theory, rather looking for some key link that might show how the whole histamine cycle works in POIS and WHY XN / Niacin tends to help many by "breaking that link?"

[Habibou]

Interesting things about Histamine on Wikipedia :

H3 histamine receptor = Found on central nervous system and to a lesser extent peripheral nervous system tissue    Decreased neurotransmitter release: histamine, acetylcholine, norepinephrine, serotonin.

Suppressive effects

While histamine has stimulatory effects upon neurons, it also has suppressive ones that protect against the susceptibility to convulsion, drug sensitization, denervation supersensitivity, ischemic lesions and stress.[9] It has also been suggested that histamine controls the mechanisms by which memories and learning are forgotten.

I personnally take an H1 antihistamine which does not make anything on me, I should perhaps care of the H3 which has an important link with the brain ( memory/learning = cognitive)

[Daveman]

Could be an interesting experiment!

This type 3 anti-histamine is easily found?

[Habibou]

I don't know ! I will require 

[hurray]

For example, alcohol has a lot of histamine and when we drink it even a little, we feel very bad... same for carbs/junkfood !

Having an O when I have consumed a medium-large quantity of alcohol actually decreases the POIS symptoms that follow for me - I have observed this over several years. Of course, getting drunk is extremely bad for your body, so I would never recommend that anybody else tried this.

[b_jim]

I post here the point difficult to explain with histamines theory. Just some hypothesis ... :

Histamine are linked to orgasm, not to semen. After testicles surgery ejaculations are "dry" so the release of histamines by orgasm haven't change. If Pois is cured by the surgery Pois is linked to semen, not orgasm, the release of histamines is still present.
(about Animus case)

How to link testosterone therapy and histamines ? It seems the testosterone therapy didn't improve the symptoms which might be caused by histamine release like itchings, allergies.. I have found a link. For mice, T injections seems to affect histamines. But high or low levels, that is the question.
(Demo's case)

Anti-histamines don't work. There are no cases of improvement with anti-histamines. And M.Waldinger failed too with anti-histamine test. I saw you made a difference between H1,H2 and H3 (I remember there are other Histamine sites H4 and maybe H5). It's a good idea but I don't know if meds can activate the specific sites.

The delayed's cases. Anti-histamines are released just after orgasm. But some Pois cases feels the flu-like symptoms some hours later (myself). Dr Waldinger explained he has some delayed cases too and he tried to link the quick cases and the delayed cases to different types of immune cells and immune reaction types. I don't think histamine can cause a delayed effect.

Too much or too high ?
So, I'm a bit sceptic about histamines as a trigger of the flu-like symptoms. Histadellia (high histamine lveles) + orgasm = very high lvels = symptoms
[Dispite some think histadellia is linked to PE, interesting for me ]
 
But you said histamines can be linked to fatigue/cognition levels.
Histahenia = low levels (after orgasm) = fatigue

This point is more interesting for me. There is a link between Histamines and narcolepsy. Histamines controle day/night cycles and vigilence states.

[Daveman]

B_Jim take a look at this post. It's a bit intense "biologically speaking", but I think there are a lot of answers there.
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=197.0

[rock27]

I have quite some relief from antihistamines. This also prevents total crashes that would normally occur days later. I still feel fatigue then but no crash.
I think also Willem reported quite some relief from antihistamines. I don't know why it would work in some and not others.

[Starsky]

Orgasm Regulation

Histamine has also been found to play a significant role in sexual health due to its role in a completed orgasm. During sexual intercourse, mast cells collect in the male and female genitals, and in order for orgasm to complete, the mast cells trigger a massive release of histamine. Women who have significant difficulty reaching orgasm have been found to have very low blood plasma levels of histamine. In addition, both men and women treated with histamine supplements have reported increases in the quantity and quality of orgasms. Histamine plays such a vital role in male orgasm that antihistamines are sometimes prescribed by doctors for the treatment of pre-ejaculatory syndrome. The Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada state that cyproheptadine, a serotonin and histamine antagonist is an effective medical intervention in treating male sexual dysfunction.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/120565-histamine-effects/#ixzz1aJCFClry

In think when semen gets from the testis to the prostate histamine is released. To much histamine cause POIS! Did some one try Cyproheptadine, i think its the antihistamine that works in the genitals.

[Willem]

I have quite some relief from antihistamines. This also prevents total crashes that would normally occur days later. I still feel fatigue then but no crash.
I think also Willem reported quite some relief from antihistamines. I don't know why it would work in some and not others.

That's absolutely true.  I haven't tried Niacin (since I only like to try one thing at a time), but when I was on anti-histamines they worked similar to what people describe for Niacin.  If I took them before O, then they seemed to lessen the reaction and I could recover faster. If I take them after O, there was not so much of an effect.  The main thing for me was that my muscles felt much better while on anti-histamines. 

I wonder if some POIS cases aren't due to high histamine levels (allergic reaction) and some due to low histamine levels.  The more I read about people's accounts, the more it seems like there are perhaps two different causes of POIS.

[omen]

I have quite some relief from antihistamines. This also prevents total crashes that would normally occur days later. I still feel fatigue then but no crash.
I think also Willem reported quite some relief from antihistamines. I don't know why it would work in some and not others.

That's absolutely true.  I haven't tried Niacin (since I only like to try one thing at a time), but when I was on anti-histamines they worked similar to what people describe for Niacin.  If I took them before O, then they seemed to lessen the reaction and I could recover faster. If I take them after O, there was not so much of an effect.  The main thing for me was that my muscles felt much better while on anti-histamines. 

I wonder if some POIS cases aren't due to high histamine levels (allergic reaction) and some due to low histamine levels.  The more I read about people's accounts, the more it seems like there are perhaps two different causes of POIS.

yes even i think there is definately some link because i have a tendency to catch up cold when i have a cold drink or an ice cream and at that time anti histamines like cetrizine work for me...the cold symtoms go away...

[b_jim]

About histamines :
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C376401.html

Histapenia, is characterized by elevated levels of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, low whole blood histamine, and low absolute basophils. This population is characterized by the following typical symptoms: Absence of seasonal, inhalent allergies, but a multitude of chemical or food sensitivities, high anxiety which is evident to all, low libido, obsessions but not compulsions, tendency for paranoia and auditory hallucinations, underachievement as a child, heavy body hair, hyperactivity, "nervous" legs, and grandiosity.

The treatment program consists of the administration of zinc, manganese, vitamin C, niacin, vitamin B12, and folic acid. With this treatment the high blood copper is slowly reduced and symptoms are slowly relieved in several months' time.

After ejaculation, I'm clearly sensible to cold.

[Vincent M]

Update on my latest experiment: Claritin

I decided to try Claritin for my POIS symptoms because a few POIS members tried it with very positive results. Since it is an anti-histamine it seems to coincide with the autoimmune theory behind POIS. I bought the generic, Loratadine, because it's cheaper.

Day Zero: Followed my usual protocol but with double the dose of fenugreek and saw palmetto and 4 thera tears omega 3 caps for a boost for my job interview which I went to at 2pm. City driving added a lot of stress to an already stressful day.
12:30am- Before going to bed I took a 10mg Loratadine pill. Didn't take my usual saw palmetto.
12:52- Had an "o" then promptly fell asleep.

Day One:
9:17am- Woke up well rested. I didn't expect to get any results the first day because I generally feel okay if I took my usual regimen of fenugreek & saw palmetto the previous day. Felt fine all day and did a fair amount of POIS research.
11:42pm- Took 1 loratadine
12:18am- had an "o" then fell asleep.

Day Two:
~9am- woke up well rested.
9:50am- Wrote in my journal: "Have a slight headache, but otherwise feel fine." The headache went away, but came back later in the day and at one point was bad enough to cause me to stop researching and just rest for a bit. I felt that the Loratadine had built up in my system too much so I decided to go a night without it. Despite the headache I had a good feeling about the Claritin(Loratadine) because normally on this day my post orgasm symptoms would begin to return, but I felt fine all day except for the headache.
~11pm- Masturbated to orgasm. Didn't take Loratadine. Went to bed, but had an additional 1 or 2 orgasms before I got to sleep.

Day Three:
8:17am- Woke up well rested and the headache was gone.
10:59am- Still felt fine. By this time my symptoms should have returned since I hadn't taken any fenugreek in more than two days so I was getting a bit excited that Claritin might be more effective than I thought.
1:22pm- Felt good enough to go outside and chop wood. I never would've been able to do this without fenugreek. Normally my joint pain would be too intense and my muscles too weak. The fact that I was able to do this provides strong evidence to me that Loratadine is effective in preventing my post orgasm symptoms and it stays in my system remaining effective for at least an additional day after taking one 10mg pill.
7:53pm-  Been reading up on POIS for 3 hours now and my mental energy, focus, and concentration remain strong.  

Conclusion so far: Claritin(Loratadin) reduced my symptoms by at least 50%, perhaps more, for two full days now with roughly 3 to 4 orgasms in that time. It has made me a tad drowsy and it gives me a headache if I take too much, but these side-effects are nothing compared to my usual POIS pain. I won't be able to take a Claritin every other day for the rest of my life, but I think I'll be able to switch on and off between it and my herbal supplements to help ensure my body doesn't develop a tolerance to either. I'll update on Claritin/Loratadine after a longer period of testing. Also I have premature ejaculation so perhaps my histamine levels are naturally too high, but I don't think I've noticed an improvement in my PE from Claritin.

[Willem]

Thanks for sharing Vincent Marcus! 

[Vincent M]

I've decided that one 10mg pill of Claritin(Loratadine) stays in my system and works to reduce much or most of my POIS symptoms for about 3 days(considering I have an "o" at least once a night). For instance I took one 10mg pill Sunday night, had an "o" before bed, woke up and had 3 more "o"s Monday morning(normally this would keep in bed for the next couple days) but I felt fine even good enough to practice some martial arts, had another "o" Monday night and then another Tuesday night and felt fine until this morning (Wednesday) when I had another "o" that I noticed some POIS symptoms from. I have everything written in my journal more specifically and I'll give these specifics later. Also Tuesday morning I did take fenugreek & saw palmetto which may have added to the effect of the Claritin.

[jacksonsean]

I have been following a Vegan diet for only four days now (still eating a little bit of fish), I just ejaculated and my POIS symptoms are only 10% of what they normally are. I consider myself to normally have worse POIS symptoms than most people on this forum which last for up to 10 days. I started this diet when i found out that meat proteins increase the acidity in the blood and cause lymphocytes to create antibodies to fight of these proteins. Thus autoimmune effects are dramatically increased. I am so amazed with the results that I will continue diet and see if in a couple of weeks all my POIS symptoms disapear after ejaculation.

I would reccomend everybody to try it.

[Daveman]

Jacksonsean,

Hope it works for you. Personally it would be impossible for me to follow a vegan or even vegatarian diet.

I have tried many diets, and most of them work for a little bit, but such a lifestyle change, at least for me is practially impossible.

I might make it one or even two weeks, but forcing it beyond that would be almost as unconfortable as the POIS. It's a forced lifestyle, like abstention is.

Thankfully, with Niacin, my POIS has the prospect to be very much lighter.

[jacksonsean]

Hi Dave,

I understand where your coming from, but for me, POIS has ruined every single thing in my life, ive tried all sorts of methods and never managed to get my POIS symptoms below 90%. My experience today however has blown my mind, ive been able to work out today and do some studying, I am normally bedridden for 3 days after ejaculation. Plus with all the research ive read supporting the cause of autoimmune disorders being animal protein, i know there is hard evidence to support why I feel so much better.

I am the biggest meat/dairy lover out there, all my friends always ask me if I had to be a vegetarian would i commit suicide?

Its quite ironic that I am now following a vegan diet.

I would plead you to do two things before you decide not to even try a vegan diet,

1) Read Dr. Colin Campbells chapter on Autoimmunde Disorders (I am sending you the e-book right now) and

2) Watch his documentary detailing how animal proteins cause many issues we face today (which I am also sending you via e-mail)

The only issue I have with the niacin treatment is that our body will become reliant on it and therefore start to require more and more, Niacin essentially protects our cells from the antibodies that our body creates, this is why it is often used to suppress the symptoms of Type-1 Diabetes. It does not however stop the creation of these antibodies.

[omen]

Hi jackson...
I somehow feel you are right..I am vegetarian and I will try the vegan diet from today and let all know what change I discover...its possible for me to shift easily to vegan because I am brought up in that way all my life I have been a strict vegitarian and jus to stop having milk products will be easy for me...bye