Author Topic: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory  (Read 16108 times)

Hopeoneday

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2019, 12:38:10 PM »
Yes, we discused this meny times, a personaly agree that long
term antibiotics use can be bad, but, sometimes , we hawe no
choice and must be treated with antibiotics.
Some tipes of new generation of antibiotcs are baned in
eu, because i can damage CNS permanently and more stuff...

But look at this, short term antibiotic pois cure
https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/dav11q/i_might_have_cured_my_pois/
Sewerals pois cures are reported after short time antibiotics use.
Dr-pois.

Bob Morane

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2019, 04:34:04 PM »
Yes this gives even more credibility to the idea that POIS (at least for some of us) and its resolution is mediated by the microbiome. 2 years ago I took some Rifaximin (a non-systemic antibiotic) for SIBO and besides helping with the SIBO symptoms it also decreased considerably my POIS symptoms. Rifaximin is quite selective and left a healthier microbiome in my guts while the combination of wide-spectrum antibiotics that I took in 1986 was very destructive and damaging. From memory I think it was Erythromycin, Tetracycline and something in the Penicillin family. Conversely I also noticed that different probiotics will make my symptoms better or worse. Bifidus genus un general is helping while Acidophilus varies according to the strain used. Bulcaricus makes it worse. Another winner for me are Megasporebiotic. My (and others) hypothesis is that some microorganisms are favorable to histamin degrading (a good thing) while others will produce more histamine (not a good thing).

Overall I believe that the intestinal microbiome rules a lot of health issues - both positively and negatively. We have to be careful with our choice of antibiotics and probiotics. Not to mention the prebiotics and our food choices in general.

Yes, we discused this meny times, a personaly agree that long
term antibiotics use can be bad, but, sometimes , we hawe no
choice and must be treated with antibiotics.
Some tipes of new generation of antibiotcs are baned in
eu, because i can damage CNS permanently and more stuff...

But look at this, short term antibiotic pois cure
https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/dav11q/i_might_have_cured_my_pois/
Sewerals pois cures are reported after short time antibiotics use.

Hopeoneday

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2019, 05:37:54 PM »
Bob, question, do you hawe(had) amalgams on your teeth ?
Dr-pois.

Muon

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2019, 06:15:44 PM »
2 years ago I took some Rifaximin (a non-systemic antibiotic) for SIBO and besides helping with the SIBO symptoms it also decreased considerably my POIS symptoms.

Interesting, Rifaximin can modulate IL-8:

''This study by Vitali et al. demonstrated that rifaximin had the capacity alone (or in the presence of B. infantis) to increase PBMC production of IL-1β, IL-6, and TNF-α and that the production of IL-8 by HT29 cells was increased if rifaximin was administered alone (28). IL-8 production by HT29 cells was significantly reduced if rifaximin was administered with B. infantis (28). The last observation is of interest because IL-8 has been shown to play a role in the severity of EAEC infections (11), suggesting that IL-8 downregulation may ameliorate disease-related symptoms; however, the Vitali study showed that rifaximin alone increases IL-8 production, and in the present report, rifaximin downregulated IL-8 (and most cytokines detected in the supernatants of untreated and control antibiotic-treated HEp-2 cells).''
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2798526/

Interesting: ''Meanwhile, rifaximin prevented ileum histological alterations, restored intestinal barrier function and inhibited TLR-4/NF-κB signaling pathway activation.''
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2019.00044/full

I got an indication that I might have SIBO. IL-8 is elevated as well. These two might be related. Also food sensitivities, stool problems, stress and diet problems here Bob. No energy to go into detail at the moment. I have some pictures of anomalies in my stool from the past, maybe I should upload them.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 06:25:39 PM by Muon »

Bob Morane

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2019, 06:54:07 PM »
No amalgams since the late 80s.

Bob, question, do you hawe(had) amalgams on your teeth ?

Quantum

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2019, 07:11:44 PM »
Interesting, Bob Morane, and welcome to the forum !

I too have challenge with histamine, but taking about 250mg vit C every morning helped me, in the long run, to reduce the histamine excess in my body ( vitamin C helps to boost histamine elimination).  Quercetin also helps me a lot with histamine.

I agree that stress reduction is good too.  I do not know what are positive neuroplasticity exercises, but I meditate every day, and it is good for many aspects of my health.

I cannot do DNA tests for SNPs for now, it would create problems with my business insurance, but when I will no longer own a business, I will most probably do a DNA test.

As a reply to Quantum

My DNA report shows Histamine related SNPs and I think it is directly related to POIS (at least for me)

"The DAO and HNMT genes both encode enzymes responsible for the breakdown of histamine within your body.
? You have genetic variants in the HNMT gene associated with reduced function, meaning that you may have
reduced ability to break histamines down effectively following exposure to environmental allergens."

I have noticed in the past how very similar my POIS symptoms are compared to histamine intolerance symptoms. It all makes sense to me since my POIS began specifically after a one month medical treatment with 3 different antibiotics at age 34. It severely damaged my microbiome and my ability to deal with histamine breakdown. Leaky gut, SIBO, dysbiosis... Immediately after this treatment I began reacting to high histamine foods and also I began suffering from POIS (although at that time in pre-internet 1986 I had no idea what was going on - it took me many years to figure it out). After ejaculation, I develop the same types of symptoms I get after ingestion of histamine rich foods, especially if a high level of stress is present (which also seems to contribute to increase histamine production). I have been periodically dealing with SIBO and other related conditions ever since. I am now 67 years old, so that was 33 years ago! Prior to this antibiotic exposure I had a very active sexual life without any issues at all. No POIS at all.

Needless to say I have been experimenting with stress reduction techniques, diet, probiotics and various supplements. I have had periods with very low level of POIS symptoms but as soon as I am in a difficult stressful situation or if I expand my diet to include more histamine rich foods (while traveling for example) or if my microbiome gets into a state of dysbiosis for various reasons, I need to redo all the work with a strict diet, positive neuroplasticity exercises (similar to meditation), and supplement with probiotics and more. This is where I am at currently.

The more we learn the better we can focus our actions and get results. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Hi Fox, and welcome to the forum !

I agree that many members had improvement when turning to a more healthy diet.  Better nutrition is part of my own overall relief method.  No more industrial food, no more MSG, no more aspartame, no more artificial flavor or color, no more refined sugar.  And, for 4 years now, my green smoothies of organic veggies and fruits are an essential part of my diet.   I have more energy now at 54 than I had at 35 :)  I think a healthier diet would help anybody, not just POIS sufferers, so it is a logical first step for any POIS sufferer.

Talking about healthy gut, did you tried some probiotics supplements with both strains of lactobacillus and strains of bifidus ?  Flooding the guts with good bacteria really helps getting rid of the methane-producing ones.   Clindamycine can help in theory to get rid of anaerobic bacteria, but after antibiotherapy is finished, the bacteria left will occupy the free space again, with time.

Channelopathies have been briefly discussed here.  I do not exclude that it may be part of what causes my POIS, because taking potassium really helps with my fatigue, both for POIS and after physical exercise.  As you mention in a previous post, it may be possible that a different set of unfavorable SNPs can be present in POIS sufferers, and depending on the specific set of SNPs one has, it determines the severity and exact symptoms list one shows when in POIS.   This also would account for the fact that it seems to be more than just one type of POIS.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 07:13:53 PM by Quantum »
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

demografx

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #86 on: October 07, 2019, 06:15:07 AM »
Bob Morane,

Welcome to the forum!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #87 on: October 09, 2019, 12:25:18 PM »
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg31172#msg31172

''(++)presence of cryoglobulins.''

Hmm patients with mixed cryoglobulinemia benefit from a low antigen content (LAC) diet.

''The aim of low antigen content diet (LAC-diet) is the reduction of the high-molecular-weight exogenous substances crossing the mucosal barrier of the gut.''

Low-Antigen-Content Diet

BoneBroth

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #88 on: September 22, 2020, 03:41:09 PM »
Quote
men report about less symptoms of POIS after penetration sex than through masturbation. I wonder if this relates to the fact that man in a relationship eat probably more healthy food.
I think that normal sex releases a balanced soup or hormones. Body contact releases oxytocin - an antiinflammatory hormone that balances adrenaline. Masturbation releases a unhealthy balance or hormones and too much dopamine.

BoneBroth

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #89 on: November 22, 2020, 06:44:31 PM »

Muon

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #90 on: December 10, 2020, 11:35:48 AM »
Rifaximin is quite selective and left a healthier microbiome in my guts...

It stimulates a few strains. I've read about it, not sure where. Probably a paper from this site:
https://www.siboinfo.com/studies.html

I could centralize this info somewhere.

Muon

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drop247

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2021, 06:31:23 AM »
Among the several potential intestinal luminal stimuli that can trigger zonulin release, we identified small intestinal exposure to bacteria and gluten as the two more powerful triggers

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3384703/

certainlypois2

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insearchofhealing

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #94 on: February 16, 2021, 11:04:03 PM »
Yes, we discused this meny times, a personaly agree that long
term antibiotics use can be bad, but, sometimes , we hawe no
choice and must be treated with antibiotics.
Some tipes of new generation of antibiotcs are baned in
eu, because i can damage CNS permanently and more stuff...

But look at this, short term antibiotic pois cure
https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/dav11q/i_might_have_cured_my_pois/
Sewerals pois cures are reported after short time antibiotics use.

This is horrifying to me, though, as my POIS attacks started the same month I was taking an antibiotic (took it for a month).

But it?s tempting. Numerous people say they?ve healed with antibiotics.

Mushnikk

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #95 on: February 17, 2021, 02:08:49 AM »
Yes, we discused this meny times, a personaly agree that long
term antibiotics use can be bad, but, sometimes , we hawe no
choice and must be treated with antibiotics.
Some tipes of new generation of antibiotcs are baned in
eu, because i can damage CNS permanently and more stuff...

But look at this, short term antibiotic pois cure
https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/dav11q/i_might_have_cured_my_pois/
Sewerals pois cures are reported after short time antibiotics use.

This is horrifying to me, though, as my POIS attacks started the same month I was taking an antibiotic (took it for a month).

But it?s tempting. Numerous people say they?ve healed with antibiotics.

Well, this boosts your gut theory. The antibiotics nuked your microbiome.

BoneBroth

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #96 on: March 03, 2021, 03:59:03 PM »
This is horrifying to me, though, as my POIS attacks started the same month I was taking an antibiotic (took it for a month).
But it?s tempting. Numerous people say they?ve healed with antibiotics.

Maybe they combined the antibiotic with probiotic. What did you take the antibiotic for? You probably did not have SIBO since you did not have pois before the antibiotics. Mayby the antibiotics instead killed of the good bacteria only. But I dont think pois can start only by that thing. There must be some other issues as well, did you experience stress or bloating during or after the antibiotics and directly before pois?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 04:01:04 PM by BoneBroth »