Author Topic: I think I cured my POIS  (Read 6307 times)

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
I think I cured my POIS
« on: May 23, 2019, 05:24:40 PM »
I was looking into the carnivore diet, when I discovered a guy called Grant Genereux. He says that vitamin A is actually a poison that accumulates in the body. When you reach a certain level you get sick. The solution is to go on a vitamin a deficient diet. I have been on this diet for a few days now and discharged twice today without symptoms.

Genereux has a blog with free ebooks: https://ggenereux.blog/2016/04/22/ending-the-mystery-of-auto-immune/

This is a good article: http://180degreehealth.com/vitamin-vitamin-villain/

Also check out this forum thread on Ray Peat Forum, its 250 pages, with lots of people saying it cured all their health problems: https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/grant-genereuxs-theory-of-vitamin-a-toxicity.24722/

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2019, 06:17:58 PM »
So you're cured?

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 06:23:25 PM »
I have only been on the diet for a few days, this means that I've stopped taking in more A. When your liver is full of A the body has nowhere to store it so it goes in the tissue and creates inflammation. It takes up to 200 days to deplete the liver. But yes, I'm confident this is it. I'm symptom free.

And btw, I haven't been this horny in years.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 06:35:32 PM by tearjerker »

Quantum

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1798
Re: I think I have found some relief for my POIS symptoms
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 07:55:12 PM »
Hi tearjerker,

To say that you have "cured" your POIS after 3 days of a new diet is not really appropriate.  Like you can see from the title change of my reply, it may be better to say that you have found some relief for your POIS symptoms.

Let us know how it goes in 3 months, and if your POIS symptoms are still under control.

I looked at the references you gave.  The author himself is very clear about the fact that what he proposes is a pure "theory" ( he should have used the word "hypothesis", though, not "theory" ).   I cannot say that any of what he explains makes sense to me, however. 

The other article, says the following, to express that all the inflammation and auto-immune diseases we see more and more are left unexplained, as if we would have no evidence that they are to blame :

"Well, there’s the low-fat diet craze. There’s the switch to high fructose corn syrup. We started playing video games and using computers. We started using a hell of a lot more chemicals, additives, and flavor enhancers in food. Those sound bad, and most pin the blame such things without needing to see much evidence, but there’s not really much of a theory that one can build about how those things cause such a tidal wave of inflammation and the immune system basically going apeshit to boot."

It is rather surprising that the author has not found any sound study proving the link between the bad occidental diet and inflammation, when there are plenty of such studies.  For example, a 10 seconds search for "sugar and inflammation" will lead you to references like https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sugar-and-inflammation , where you can find links to many scientific articles proving that abundant refined sugar like what is found in our diet causes inflammation in the body.  There are plenty of such studies proving that sugar causes inflammation in the body.  For example, one of these study proves that consuming a 50-gram dose of fructose causes a spike in inflammatory markers like C-reactive protein (CRP) just 30 minutes later, and that CRP remains high for over two hours ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4290803/ ).

I am not really attracted to a hypothesis pointing to a vitamin as the main culprit for inflammation, from someone  who seem to ignore well-known data, and does not address at all the fact the North American diet contains a lot of refined sugars, artificial flavoring, artificial colors, nasty preservatives, chemical pesticides and herbicides on fruits and veggies, industrial additive like aspartame, monosodium glutamate, etc.   Than, after saying that none of these are the real cause, he goes on to say that the culprit is vitamin A.   

Correlation does not equal causation, that is a basic scientific rule.  His only cue he bases his hypothesis on is that he had been on a low vitamin A diet for years, probably a meat-based diet, and that this has been good for his health. I am not convinced at all that all those diets based mostly if not solely on meat are good in themselves, or that it is what they exclude that is helping lower inflammation.  What if they were efficient because, for example, they exclude refined sugar ?   there is no refined sugars in meat, for sure.   I am not saying that this is actually what is good in them, but since refined sugar is proven to raise inflammation in the body, it is clear that cutting refined sugar from your diet will lower inflammation. 

Too much vitamin A supplementation is not good, since vitamin A is a lipophilic vitamin, and can accumulate in the body ( contrty to hydophilic vitamins, which are eliminated by the kidney when concentration is too hing in the blood).   But from the current medical knowledge, you cannot get to toxic level of vitamin A through a balanced diet, you need to over-supplement to get to a toxic level of vitamin A.

Nevertheless, I am glad for you that your diet changes have brought you some relief, even if not for the reasons you thought.



You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 08:36:38 PM »
Did you check out the thread at Ray Peat Forum? Of course this got a lot of flack in the beginning and your reply could have been taken from that thread. This should tick all the boxes for the hunches people have about POIS, like people thinking that they have candida or there's something going on with the digestion because they get brain fog after eating. I was so sick that I had to follow FODMAPS and SCD at the same time, which basically left me with meat, tomato, carrot and bell pepper, still I was getting worse. I haven't been on the poison A depletion for 3 days, more like a week. I eat honey and beef.

edit: Thanks for taking the time to read and respond btw...
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 09:07:43 PM by tearjerker »

Hopeoneday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2019, 04:11:59 PM »
Hi Terjerker, did you tested some more odhers foods wich are low in
vitamine A?
Dr-pois.

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2019, 04:29:02 PM »
Its very difficult to find food that is low in VA. But white sugar is ok. I couldn't handle celeriac because of the fiber. I can't handle potato or rice. Processed corn seems ok, but because of my intolerance for potato and rice I started to follow the scd diet, so excluded processed corn. I tried to eat chicken curry with Brusselsprouts and reacted, and tried to eat only meat and orange sweet potato and reacted. Same with carrots, so it's not about nightshades.

Edit: strangely I seem to do ok on gluten free wheat starch. Blueberries are ok.

I used to eat a bit of pate and fois gras before and have taken purified VA from cod liver oil because Im allergic to fish. Ate a lot of liver because I thought it was healthy but felt so bad I had to ditch it. Had severe vertigo and brain fog from synthetic VA. I love tomatoes. Then you have fortification. Edit: and sunscreen.

Look this theory isn't so silly. Its basically that scientists mistook a toxin for a vitamin. Conventional medicine recognises VA overdose, hypervitaminosis A, as a dangerous condition. Normally the body can handle this toxin in moderate amounts, because its in almost anything so we developed to handle it, but Genereux says that it accumulates over time and that in addition to hypervitaminosis A you can have a chronic low grade hypervitaminosis. It protects against infections when it gets released from the liver, because it's toxic. And one of Genereuxs major points is that its not essential, which he spends a lot of time on.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 04:44:39 PM by tearjerker »

itsmel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2019, 10:15:40 PM »
Interesting that a carnivore diet or simply avoiding vitamin A is able to generate a subject of 250 page thread. I looked into diets previously and read that you shouldn't eat more than 2-3 servings of red meat a week or something like through health articles unless its fish. I'm glad this diet seems to be working for you but do please come back and update us after a month that would be awesome.

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2019, 08:29:13 AM »
Ok, I will. In the meantime there are a lot of threads from people who have already done the VA depletion diet for a longer time in the Ray Peat thread, if youre curious.

Hopeoneday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2019, 03:25:41 PM »
Intresting, i tested twinlab dual tabs multivitamin, i expect imrowment on my owerall health, because these tablets hawe ewerything you need in body, but ......... every time i started to take them, i started getting worse by my health,
they act on me toxic.
This was ridiculous to me, everyone should be better with these vitamins, but they are toxic to me.

I did see a lot of VA in there and wondered, wich component in there is toxic for me?

If you ask me, VA theory hawe no logic and comon sense, only if we hawe alergic to VA, is this exist?

Mybe beacause of VA toxicity, I have a vision like an eagle ;D
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 03:36:27 PM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2019, 04:29:56 PM »
Yes, exactly this happened to me in 2014. In the end i decided it was the iron or the copper that caused me to feel bad. I was on these pills for 6 months continuing to take them. My vision did not become great though. After eating liver in 2016 i got a swollen eyelid and tired face ever since. The only thing that has helped was not ejaculating for a few days.

Edit: and like I said in another thread b2 helped somewhat.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 04:31:34 PM by tearjerker »

Hopeoneday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2019, 03:39:59 PM »
Hmm, yes copper. We discussed before...
Meny poisers hawe low ceruloplasmin.

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?contenttypeid=167&contentid=ceruloplasmin_blood

I hawe all this symptomes from firs list "copper in nervos sistem":


    Trouble speaking or swallowing

    Tremors

    Lack of coordination

    Stiff muscles

    Changes in behavior

Dr-pois.

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2019, 05:18:25 PM »
I did bloodtests and they came back normal afterwards, then I did hair mineral analysis and my zinc was low compared to copper. I went on a two months cure of supplements based on the hairtestmade by the company that did the testing. I didn't get better though. I checked the vitaminpills I took during that time because it's a pharmacy brand so it was easy to find again, and they do contain retinol.

Hopeoneday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2019, 10:32:33 AM »
Yes copper only 0.5-1.0 mg, but VA 12.500ui, Interestingly, I doubted vitamin from the very beginning and i doubted on odher trace
elements, i tought that i didnt hawe inough aminoacids to carry that minerals.
Dr-pois.

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2019, 12:58:00 PM »
That's a lot if VA, 250% dv.

JohnJames

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2019, 06:46:07 AM »
I've been on the carnivore diet for over a year now, eating pretty much only beef. I do eat raw milk/honey occasionally too (though I have had stints of months of only beef). Still have pois, though it is improved.

I have supplemented vitamin A in the past which had no effect on my pois (in theory this should make pois worse no?), and also eating fresh animal liver (high source of vitamin A) doesn't change symptoms for me.

I think the improvements you have experienced and many experience are not from vitamin A depletion, but due to improved gut microbiome, digestion, and avoiding plant toxins, as well as the increased nutrient density, and most people feel better in ketosis anyway.

I personally think that my POIS is caused by mercury toxicity, in which case the removal of thiol foods and supplementing selenium reduces symptoms (which it does for me). Interestingly, foods which are high in vitamin A also tend to be high in thiols.

Also evolutionarily speaking, vitamin A toxicity makes no sense, there's no way our ancestors ate a low vitamin A diet, I'm sure if this was a factor natural selection would select for people who don't get sick when consuming vitamin A.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 06:59:09 AM by JohnJames »

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2019, 03:01:00 PM »
I'm keeping the possibility open that this might be about plant toxins or simply carotenoids intolerance. I don't want to try any retinol yet because I don't want to ruin my state. About our ancestors, most traditional diets didn't contain as much VA as today especially considering fortification and supplements, besides there might be more to this, vaccines and glyphosate are suspected.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 03:02:55 PM by tearjerker »

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2019, 12:01:36 PM »
It wasn't vitamin a, I had an e. Coli infection. Certain foods would feed the bacteria and the bacteria were in turn causing inflammation.

itsmel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2019, 12:55:31 PM »
@tearjerker,

How did you came upon finding out that you had e.coli and what steps afterwards?

tearjerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: I think I cured my POIS
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2019, 02:35:56 PM »
As a part of the scd diet you're supposed to introduce probiotics after a while, so I searched up some probiotics on iherb that didn't contain prebiotics since I was obviously reacting to that after testing, and also because scd said it would feed bad bacteria. I found this https://iherb.com/pr/Life-Extension-Florassist-GI-with-Phage-Technology-30-Liquid-Vegetarian-Capsules/72248. After a week of diarrhea I no longer had brainfog. I then searched on the net and it appears that the bacteriophage part of the product are viruses that kill different kinds of e. Coli bacteria https://www.healio.com/family-medicine/nutrition-and-fitness/news/online/%7B56ebd9f8-66cf-4329-b30c-83743254d66a%7D/bacteriophages-potentially-eliminate-pathogenic-gut-bacteria. I went to Sri Lanka in 2016 and got bad diarrhea, the Sri Lankan doctor said it was e. Coli. and prescribed antibiotics and the diarrhea stopped, but I thing that wasn't enough. Possibly resistant strains continued to thrive in my gi. It all started with gluten intolerance in 2010 and with time I had eliminated all gluten containing foods but still not getting better, because of e.coli. Both gluten and e. Coli. Feeling the same because as you can see from the last link there was a reduction in inflammation with phages and gluten creates inflammation in celiac. After killing the e. Coli. I had a significant improvement in wellbeing, but I'm still getting better every day even a month after as inflammation is subsiding.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 02:41:43 PM by tearjerker »