Castration, why did it work

[mike_sweden]

I think most of us have seen the YouTube clip where an American architect underwent castration and also took testosterone supplements and this cured his POIS

why did this work?

[Quantum]

I think most of us have seen the YouTube clip where an American architect underwent castration and also took testosterone supplements and this cured his POIS

why did this work?

Hi Mike, 3 comments:

1- this member has not been active here since 2014 ( Animus) , so there is no way to know if it is still effective for him and that he is still POIS-free.

2- This member also had a painful mass on one if his testis, and this, I think was also one of his motivation for removal of the testes.

3- Many Poiscenter members had vasectomy, and it never helped or cured POIS for any of them.  If the cause of POIS is an immune reaction, it seems that it would not depend on anything coming from the testes, because in this case, vasectomy should bring relief.  Discussions among members here have made it clear that complete castration is not a solution for POIS, and bring major problems because of the hormonal role of the testes.   Some members had, instead, though about removal of the prostate and/or Cowper glands, and or seminal glands, but again, absolutely no proof that any of this would help.   So, since they are all irreversible procedures, they are not solutions for now. Anyway, I do not think any doctor would accept doing any of this, first, because they know nothing about POIS.  Even if they know about POIS, they would refuse for ethical reasons, because those surgical procedures are not proven at all to be a solution for POIS....remember, Animus had a painful lump on a testes, so this justified the procedure, I think.  Otherwise, I guess a surgeon would have problems with the ethical board of his hospital - it is not accepted to "try" new procedures out of a real, solid research context, and doing it just to "see what it would do".  Before those procedure could be accepted, there should be some serious research, and some proofs found that there is something, for example, from the seminal gland, that we are fairly sure can cause POIS, in some cases that are possible to identify with a valid test... and we are nowhere near that yet in POIS research !

Hopefully, we have a POIS research coming later this year, funded by POIScenter !!!     


Also, as a final note, keep in mind that it seems there are than one type of POIS, based on the empirical results members get from their POIS control methods. There is no one single method that works for every POIS sufferers, and what works for one may not work for the other, and can even worsen another member's POIS.

[demografx]

Thanks for clarification of the Animus story, Quantum

[Nas]

Also, as a final note, keep in mind there is more than one type of POIS, so what would work for one may not work for the other.

Even though this sounds perfectly reasonable, you still need proof for that other than empiric reasons; since we don't know what these types are.
You should've said that, there is a possibility of other types of POIS

[demografx]

Also, as a final note, keep in mind there is more than one type of POIS, so what would work for one may not work for the other.

Quantum, great and brilliant contribution you made to POIS Research.

We had zero attempt at any sophisticated POIS-typing until you developed it into a significantly mature concept!

[demografx]

Thanks for clarification of the Animus story, Quantum

In Animus' case, I wonder if sperm was the culprit?. It seems he removed the sperm component, and even more and still had POIS. Although he finally was able to stop POIS. So it may not matter if sperm IS the culprit.

However, even if we duplicate Animus's procedure, can we assure that POIS is eliminated?

A very good point you make valtak, is the similarity of his solution to a hysterectomy for women. And those are commonly exercised!

I wonder how much of the male ego is involved in the decisions?

If we can come to some consensus, I could open a an isolated workshop where we could dedicate to moving forward on this for male hysterectomy cases.

They practice vasectomies even on young people (although it IS reversible). However I think there could be new evidence arising that certain combinations of vasectomy/reversal can be dangerous.

Obviously, the "male hysterectomy" is more final, and should exercised very carefully.

I speculate that sperm is one of the contributing culprits- based on the observation that my POIS improved by a factor of 20% after I eliminated sperm production.
My POIS went away 100% after I eliminated all Semen production.
It has been over 2 years since the surgery, and holding steady. I can have an O, and completely forget about it the next day.

I think it would work on other people.
However, I don't know if it would be possible to retain the testicles, and remove the other organs, and get the same results.

I agree male hysterectomy should be exercised very carefully. It was life-threatening for me but that's a personal decision. If you can't function normally anymore, and the illness eclipses everything in your life- I think it's something to consider- even if you are younger.

Animus’ bolded emphasis mine - - Demo

For more history of “The Animus Solution”, here’s the thread:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=94.msg667#msg667

The Learning Channel's (TLC) feature TV presentation on Animus’ POIS:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6sdaR18vw1s

[demografx]

I have also contacted Daveman - - and Animus - - to see if either one can provide an update. Looking at Animus’ website (cannot share - - strictly confidential), he looks fully employed, productive, creative and content. I know...looks can be deceiving. But I’m not sure how much more I want to probe. He has expressed significant confidentiality concerns to me in the past. Possibly stemming from his TV exposure.

[Quantum]

Also, as a final note, keep in mind there is more than one type of POIS, so what would work for one may not work for the other.

Even though this sounds perfectly reasonable, you still need proof for that other than empiric reasons; since we don't know what these types are.
You should've said that, there is a possibility of other types of POIS

Hi Nas,

I understand what you mean, so I have modified my post to the following :

"Also, as a final note, keep in mind that it seems there are than one type of POIS, based on the empirical results members get from their POIS control methods. There is no one single method that works for every POIS sufferers, and what works for one may not work for the other, and can even worsen another member's POIS."

My POIS Types Chart is indeed based on empirical results.   Since we do not know the underlying mechanisms, it cannot be automatically stated there they have different biological causes.  However, if, for example, niacin was effective for every POISer, it would suggest that it is the exact same biological pattern that is implied.  The fact the some control methods works for a certain percentage, and not for others, and that some methods will be useful for only a few members, seems to point in the opposite direction, that some different biological mechanisms lead to similar symptoms.  My chart reflect that idea by naming the different types by " POIS Type reponding to ..."   which makes it clear that it is based on empirical results ( It was not like that at first, but a comment from another member made me refine my way of naming the different types in the chart).


In this particular case, castration, it is a very drastic procedure, and it is not clear, for the reasons I have stated in this thread, if another person going through this surgery would be relieved from POIS.   It would be a huge disappointment and a source of deep frustration en regret if one would undergo that type of surgery, jsut to see that his POIS is still there.  Even if a less drastic version was used, by leaving the testes, this would be a huge disappointment as well if not effective in eliminating POIS.  That is why I wanted to make it clear that what works for one does not necessarily work for another, as we clearly see with all the POIS control methods we know about up to now.  For example, if one member's POIS would come from a specific set of genetic mutations, or from an neurotransmitters problem in the brain, then castration would theorically have no effect.

Also, I heard some rumors that Animus is no longer 100% POIS-free.  These are, of course, only rumors, and I do not think he will ever come back on this forum to clarify his situation.  Like Demo has pointed out in this thread, he may already had too much media attention, and may not want any public attention anymore, including from this forum.  But after 5 years of silence, we clearly miss the long term results of his surgical solution.

[demografx]

Text chat with Animus today!! It took me a loooong time to muster the bravery required to contact him!

Demo: Animus, very sorry if you feel this is intrusive. I’m Demo from the POIS forum. People are always asking about your health status. Is there any possibility of a “one-liner” update?
Best wishes!

Animus: Demo!  So great to hear from you.  Such an honor to hear that... I’m happy to say that my POIS troubles are well behind me now. 
So thankful for that. I take a couple standard prostate reducing meds, and herbs now.

Demo: Oh my! Animus, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate this!!!!

Demo: Can I post “Animus responded to me with the following”?

Animus: Yep. Absolutely

Animus: Yes, still really glad I had the surgeries, even though it was pretty crazy at the time. But dry ejaculation really did work for me.

Demo: I’m so glad you’re better!

Animus: Thank you. [prayer emoji]

Demo: I’m smiling!! No silly “lol”!! [big smiling emoji]

Animus: Haha. How are you?  And things

Demo: [update on forum and POIS Research]

Animus: I see. Sad to hear that [probs with last Study]. I still wonder about the group from time to time. Excellent job on fundraising.  Thank you for getting in touch. And wish you and the group much success.

Demo: THANK YOU!!!!!

Animus: Yes. Thank you!  I hope to [visit] sometime soon. I will get in touch. Best,  Animus.

[we exchanged mutual interest in getting together in the future]

[demografx]

...dry ejaculation really did work for me.

Interesting point to ponder: above summarizes in a nutshell Animus’ POIS cure.

That doesn’t mean we should all rush out and do male hysterectomy surgeries, but I think that Animus’ finally achieving dry ejaculation points to a possible cure pathway for many of us.

Animus’ POIS cure has been in place for 10 years. Certainly not a placebo effect!

[Quantum]

Thanks Demo, for this update !

At least, it confirms, that Animus is still POIS-free, and that dry ejaculation does work for him.   

I wonder, however, about the "prostate reducing meds", since his prostate has been "shrunk" through surgery, using his own word.  Maybe he wants the remaining tissues to stay as inactive as possible.  I used to think that he had his prostate totally removed, with the rest, and I now see this is not the case.   He had the testes, the Cowper glands and the seminal glands all removed, as I understand, and also a part of the prostate. 


(P.S.:  as Animus as clarified himself, his Cowper glands had not been removed - see his post down this thread)

[demografx]

Once again, the TV program video link on Animus’ POIS cure:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6sdaR18vw1s

[Quantum]

...dry ejaculation really did work for me.

Interesting point to ponder: above summarizes in a nutshell Animus’ POIS cure.

That doesn’t mean we should all rush out and do male hysterectomy surgery, but I think that Animus’ finally achieving dry ejaculation points to a possible cure pathway for many of us.

You are right, this has to be better understood before any decision could be made ( and before any doctors would accept doing this kind of procedure). For young men, in particular, who may want to have children one day, this would be a though choice to make.  And doctors may be very reluctant, as I see them being reluctant to do hysterectomy or the equivalent to women who are in their late 30s or in their 40s, even if they have endometriosis problems, just in case they would want another child at any point in the future ( they prefer to postpone till they are 50 or near it, controlling bleeding and possible anemia in the meantime).

But, if some research finds WHY dry ejaculation can, in some cases, cure POIS...that would be great !   We could get the result without having the surgery, probably. If, for example, and like Animus supposes in his "Solution" thread you gave the link to in this thread ( https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=94.msg667#msg667 ), it is because a precious substance is depleted through replenishing semen after ejaculation, than supplementing this very substance appropriately should prevent POIS.   This is only one hypothesis, but there is for sure a reason why, in his case, dry ejaculation did cure him of POIS.

Who knows, maybe research will find this reason, and, maybe, the link between this and other methods that have helped control POIS  For example, what would be the link between Animus case, and the fact that GoingLessCrazy is POIS-free as long as he respects his strict diet ?   Maybe there is an hidden link, that may be found one day.  But we have to start somewhere, and the coming research will do just that   

[demografx]

Quantum, you just triggered another thought: my TRT killed off my sperm count. And Animus I think said that alone led to a 20% improvement. Hmmmm, I’ll leave that possible correlation (with sperm, semen + dry ejaculation)  to the more scientific-minded members here

[demografx]

For more history of “The Animus Solution”, here’s the POISCenter thread:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=94.msg667#msg667

[Nas]

Dry ejaculation means it's spermless right? Cause I also know ejaculation means no semenal fluid at all.

[demografx]

Doctors would [might not] accept doing this kind of procedure.

Quantum, I think Animus flew to India to do the surgery.

$10,000 total cost in 2009. Certainly more today. But the old Animus thread also discusses
less expensive ways to do this.

[demografx]

We have to start somewhere, and the coming research will do just that   

Quantum, thanks for the positive comment about our 2019-2020 research!

I hope the Research enthusiasm spreads to more forum members!

I passed along this thread to Dr. Lorenz and Dr. Prause, expressing hope that they take the Animus Solution seriously into their research design.

[demografx]

Exciting day!

[Muon]

This comment has been edited by me because people might interpreting it in a wrong way, which already happened. I'm glad Animus shared his experience with us.

Does Animus got other health issues prior to his POIS or beside his POIS? Perhaps this can tell us something about his POIS.

I think the cause of POIS might still be present despite being completely symptom free. There might be an underlying cause (which probably defines POIS) which let tissue interact with eachother.

I think there is a reaction happening between surface tissue in the genitourinary system and fluids from the cowper glands/seminal vesicle. In my mind he probably got rid of the symptoms because the fluid cannot reach that particular area of tissue anymore, while leaving the underlying cause of POIS alone (which is unknown).

The factor that let this interaction happen might still be present, meaning there could be an abnormality present even if he doesn't experience any symptoms anymore.