Author Topic: Creatine for POIS: cheaper and better than SAMe, TMG, cholines  (Read 3513 times)

romies

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Creatine for POIS: cheaper and better than SAMe, TMG, cholines
« on: September 02, 2017, 02:41:47 PM »
Creatine is one of the most well-known, low-cost weight training supplements. And it is very likely to benefit many POISer with reduced methylation.

The punch line is: 1 gram of creatine = 3038 mg of SAMe

Compare the cost of the two: 600 grams of Creatine is about $15 USD. 60 tablets of 400mg SAMe cost around $27 USD

Why: An average 70-kg-body-weight adult male needs 2g of creatine every day, either from diet or through the following synthesis (1st step in kidney/pancreas and 2nd step in liver)



An average non-vegetarian diet provides 1g of creatine, and the other 1g comes from in vivo synthesis. And the 2nd step of the synthesis constitute 40% of all SAMe demand in the body.[1]
Supplementing creatine have two effects:
1. significantly reducing the demand of SAMe
2. significantly reducing the source of homocysteine. (a reduction of 10-20% serum level seen in human trial[2])

Do I need creatine?
Yes, if you benefit from taking SAMe, Methylfolate, Cholines, TMG
Yes, if you cannot tolerate niacin or niacinamide.
No, if SAMe, methylfolate make you sick.

Has it helped people with POIS?
ssquall said he felt significantly better by adding daily creatine to his regimen. I think the ATP recycling is the 2ndary benefit, and SAMe and arginine preservation is the main reason.

How much do I need?
Creatine is well understood in bodybuilding community. If you want to read more, you can go to https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/

For those of you who are not training, as long as your kidney function is normal, a daily dosage of 2 g should help a lot in saving the precious SAMe (that your body naturally produce) for other important purposes, such as breaking down histamine etc.

Creatine gradually breaks down in moisture, so 2 gram creatine powder (if it is near expiration) may only turn into 1g of creatine being absorbed.
Creatine has a half-life of ~3.5 hrs in blood. so dividing the daily dosage to 3-4 doses throughout the day maybe more effective.

Other secondary benefits
 - reduce excitotoxicity from glutamate, additive to COX2 inhibition,
          either creatine preloading or in take up to 2 hours after excitotoxicity
          helping maintain intracellular ATP levels, creatine prevents the toxic accumulation of calcium inside cells, a driver of excitoxicity.
 - potential coganitive enhancement:
          Creatine appears to positively regulate the polyamine binding site of NMDA receptors,
          thereby increasing signaling through this receptor and the effects of agonists such as glutamate or D-aspartic acid.
 - an anti-depressant (via serotonergic mechanisms) appears to be much stronger for women than men.
 - Conversely, the suppression of serotonin spikes seen in males may enhance physical performance during periods when the body would normally overheat.
 - increase tyrosine hydroxylase activity,
 - Two percent creatine was as protective as 0.005% rofecoxib (a COX2 inhibitor),
          but the two were additive in their protective effects (highly synergistic in regard to DOPAC by normalizing it, but not synergistic in preserving HVA).[230
 - demonstrated to increase cognition (memory, learning, and performance) in people with no dietary creatine intake, like vegetarians and vegans.

Potential Risk
without exercise, creatine can raise DHT-to-T ratio (not an issue with active weight training)
might increase manic episode risk in bipolar people (slightly serotonergic)

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21387089
[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15168891
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 02:53:07 PM by romies »

Michael218

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Re: Creatine for POIS: cheaper and better than SAMe, TMG, cholines
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2017, 07:53:21 PM »
I took Creatine last night and this morning after a release last night. My POIS hasnt been this bad in months. Shocking anxiety. Never again as a post-pack.

Perhaps for daily use.

Michael218

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Re: Creatine for POIS: cheaper and better than SAMe, TMG, cholines
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 01:23:49 AM »
I would like to correct the above post. Today has been relatively okay. Took the Creatine when waking up and went back to sleep for an hour. When I woke up my anxiety was heightened. However, after going out, exercising a bit, I find that my anxiety level is low.

notmythirdaccount

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Re: Creatine for POIS: cheaper and better than SAMe, TMG, cholines
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 11:59:27 AM »
Hey there!

Thanks so much for sharing this valuable information.

I have been diligently taking my B-complex with Methyl-Folate (b9) and Methyl-Cobalamin (b12).

I'm heterozygous C677T and have been advised to take supplements that help methylation.

In addition to the methyl versions of Folate and B12, I've also been advised to take SAMe. However, I haven't bought a bottle.

However, I did read your post and realized I had a bottle of Creatine laying around. I took a few grams and can notice an improvement in my symptoms.

I've done some reading and it seems that Creatine helps free more SAMe from being used up, leaving SAMe to reduce homocysteine (of which I have high levels.)

I'll continue to update my results, but so far I think you're onto something. Just taking simple creatine along with my methyl b-complex stack has helped me reduce my symptoms and most importantly, my anxiety!

positive_guy

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Re: Creatine for POIS: cheaper and better than SAMe, TMG, cholines
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 02:09:10 AM »
So in conclusion, can i take creatine instead of SAM-e ? How much of it?

berlin1984

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I took Creatine last night and this morning after a release last night. My POIS hasnt been this bad in months. Shocking anxiety. Never again as a post-pack.

Perhaps for daily use.

I usually always get bad effects from any supplement when taking it too shortly before sleep. I'm even trying to not eat past 18:00.
My theory is: We have some kind of bacterial problems and those bacteria ferment the supplement (the actual digestion system is in sleep mode) and then produce toxic problems.

So yes: Take it in the morning instead.

I'm a fan of creatine daily low dose supplementation.
I think it also increass water in muscles and dehydration was mentioned as a problem on the forum here.
If you find too much increased urination, maybe you need to back off a bit. If you get headache, maybe you need to trink more.
Please vote on: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3386.0
(There's real science behind it, not Astrology..)

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