General Category > General POIS Discussions

Members' Compilation and Suggestions for POIS Summary

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We wish to provide a one stop orderly summary of POIS for both outside researcher as well as new and potential future members.

We wish to compile information from all our diverse sources, which have been developed over the last 5 years. As you know the NSF forum was organized as a one thread forum, so some information is deeply buried, and most of it not very organized, however there exists a treasure chest of highly detailed and relevant information there.

There are other sources like the POIS Compendium, surveys that have been developed over a large period with excellent demographic profiles, a collaborator data base, vsarious lists of user symptoms and medication attempted with corresponding results.

The first attempt will be to compile and summarize our experience. A second pass will produce formated relational databases which will allow us to find and compare characteristic.

This thread is to receive and process suggestions and solicit help in the processing and organization of this information.

A parallel thread will be created for a formal documentation and summary of the information.

The goal is to provide to you, the opportunity to help assure that the future of POIS will be resolved with the best of possible available information on the subject.

The actual generation of the format and documentation of the Summary thread will be undertaken by a committee of hopefully 3 volunteers plus Demo and I, to help assure that no decision is seen to be "personal". We will accept any volunteer applications by PM. The accepted volunteers will have moderator access to this category.

Thank you

Great Daveman, thanks,


I think for an introduction to the condition, Dr Waldinger's summary here is a good, brief description of what POIS is:

We could use this for the basis of our own summary, adding our own collective experience to modify some sections. There is the summary in the POIS compendium too.

Some initial comments on the summary as Dr W has written it:
-"a medical disorder that only affects males" We have had one or two women complaining of similar symptoms after O on NSF. We could mention this although its clear that the sex ratio on this forum(SMF) is 1:0 M:F and of course the symptoms in the women could well have a different cause/ be later categorised as a different condition.

- It could be worth pointing out that its often perceived that we have 2 broad categories of people. Those who suffer mainly cognitive symptoms and those for whom physical symptoms (aches/pains) are a major issue. (the compendium does this). There seems to be a whole spectrum of severities and symptom mixes though so we need to look at the wording of this carefully to ensure we're being accurate.

- "The complaints last 2-7 days" -Its clear in some people that symptoms can last longer than 7 days so we should extend this (one of our polls shows this and I have experienced it myself in the past) or at least put something like 'most commonly' 2-7days.

Other things we need to summarise:
Summary of things that have relieved POIS in sufferers and an idea of the overall success rates of these things.  (eg Niacin, Fenugreek, Testosterone). The success rates of most of these things could be summarised in two or three sentences. If we can get statistics on the number of people that have tried a given thing and the range of relief (as an estimated percentage/range of percentages) experienced by those people that would be good. We are some way towards this with Niacin. (However it can be tricky to separate such figures out as people are trying several things at once). Then we could give a link to more detail as required/if possible. Eg for Niacin we have an initial (and still evolving) collection of people's trials and experiences here:

POIS AGONISTS (things that people have reported make symptoms worse)
There doesn't always seem to be  common ground here between sufferers but collecting data on this from forum members and summarising it would be really interesting I think. Things that have been mentioned in the past include stress, lack of sleep, carbohydrates, sugar. If possible,  lets try to find out what proportion of people are affected by each of these and other reported agonists.

We could summarise the prevalence of symptoms as percentages. If so, we should state the number of sufferers that were included in working out the percentages for each symptom:

Brain fog/impaired cognitive function: 95% ( out of 80 sufferers)
Mental tiredness: 90% (out of 80 sufferers)
Joint aches 50% (out 60 sufferers)

Ideally we'd have the same sample size (number of people surveyed) across all symptoms but depending how we manage to collect the data (eg old forum posts and questionnaires or new survey) this might not always be possible.

Summary of existing theories (semen allergy/ autoimmunity etc)

ie. Waldinger, Goldmeier etc with a list of their publications on POIS.

So my initial thoughts - and no doubt this will evolve with time and contributions from others
-SUMMARY OF POIS (similar to Dr Waldinger's above)

-PREVALENCE OF EACH SYMPTOM AS A PERCENTAGE OF SUFFERERS (this could be a link from the main summary if its too unwieldy)

-POIS RELIEVERS - things that have helped people (with an idea of how successful each is)

-POIS AGONISTS - things that make POIS worse with an idea of the prevalence of each (ie an idea of how many people report this)


-PEOPLE KNOWN TO HAVE WORKED ON POIS (Waldinger, Goldmeier etc) with a list of their publications on POIS.

These summaries should be concise, clear and accessible.The more we can stick to facts and objective summaries rather than individual perceptions the better. We should be able to back statements up with real data where possible. Any detailed elaborations / breakdowns of data should be in separate sections that are linked to from the summaries rather than being part of the main body of the summaries otherwise we risk losing/diluting the main points and the readability of the documents will suffer

That's a pretty good start, thanks Mellivora,

My suggestion is that we take a bit of time to mosey on around NSF, and maybe the Compendium and start remembering bits an pieces that were key at the time.

I wnt back to page 10 of NSF, looking for B_Jims the list of user profiles. That was back in 2007, and on post leads to another and you can begin to see the beginning of history.

I think a casual walk around NSFs past will stir up lots of memories and help to stimulate the formulation of key points for our summary.

Also we have papers and general "theoretical directions" we can reference from about 6 different specialists.

Although we have our theories on what POIS is, I would like our summary to be as open as possible, yet informative.

A suggestion: We don't want to bias research activity to/ confine it within one country or other but I think it would be useful for researchers to know the distribution of known cases of POIS. We have attempted to show this using maps in the past and I started a thread on this elsewhere a while ago.

I've tried to think of the most basic system to make this data easier to collect. How about we just do a simple list of countries and the number of POIS sufferers (in this case forum members) in each country. Please post your country of residence in reply to this and I will update this post with the totals. I'll start with myself which makes one for the UK as I have posted below. I'll add other countries and update figures as you post them.

(If there is any reluctance amongst members to post their country of residence it would be good to know this. We haven't had too many people identify their countries in the past but my impression is that most people wouldn't have a problem doing this, its just that they happen not to have answered past attempts to collect this data).

One more thing: Since this thread will hopefully get replied to a lot, it may appear frequently as the most recently updated thread in this section (i.e.'What is POIS' )of the forum.  I don't wish for it to distract from Daveman's important main thread which he meant to be the focus of this section so please ensure you have also visited that here:

U.K.: 4
U.S.A.: 10



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