Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)
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: who had braces and teeth removed ?  ( 505 )
melt
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« : March 17, 2019, 05:39:33 AM »

Just curious, I may have stumbled upon another potential treatment for POIS.
Who has had orthodontic work done where teeth have been removed ?
Who has a small jaw?
who has sleep apnea?
who has snoring?
who has jaw pain ?
who has headaches?
aswinpras06
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« #1 : March 17, 2019, 06:01:34 AM »

Hi MELT

I have all the things you've mentioned except jaw pain.  Instead I have severe sinus issues due to allergies and had done Septoplasty for deviated nasal septum and Fess surgery, with  no improvement in breathing issues after surgery.  I still have severe sleep problems and chronic fatigue due to lack of good sleep, and in case by luck I have a good sleep then I am a completely different person with lots of energy.  Even the pois symptoms will reduce by 90% if I am able to get a good sleep.
melt
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« #2 : March 20, 2019, 07:35:46 AM »

Hey Aswinpras06,

That is interesting.
Have you had your sleep apnea looked at? are you using a CPAP or mandibular advancement splint? has it made a difference?
do you wake up with tightness in your face, jaw muscles or neck muscles?
How long have you had POIS symptoms for?
When did you get the braces off?
Did you need to have tonsils or adenoids removed?
Have you tried Nasonex for the sinus? I'm sure you probably have tried it all, but I just want to clarify.
My wife and I have found that indoor pot plants help to clean the air. She has had less allergic break outs and sinus related issues.
aswinpras06
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« #3 : March 21, 2019, 01:49:58 AM »


That is interesting.
Have you had your sleep apnea looked at? are you using a CPAP or mandibular advancement splint? has it made a difference?
do you wake up with tightness in your face, jaw muscles or neck muscles?
How long have you had POIS symptoms for?
When did you get the braces off?
Did you need to have tonsils or adenoids removed?
Have you tried Nasonex for the sinus? I'm sure you probably have tried it all, but I just want to clarify.
My wife and I have found that indoor pot plants help to clean the air. She has had less allergic break outs and sinus related issues.

Hi Melt

Thanks for your reply

I have never used a CPAP because no doctor here have suggested using one.  Same for the mandibular advancement splint.  This is the first time  I am hearing about this.

No noticeable tightness in my face,jaw or neck while waking up.  But very tired always due to lack of good sleep when waking up.

I have Pois  for about 26 years (I am 41 years old now)

I have used the braces for only about 3 months(15 years old at that time) and stopped using them because of difficulty in speech (which has been caused by pois).  Due to slurring of speech caused by pois, having the braces made talking much more harder.  So I quit the braces and have crooked teeth till now.

Tonsils and adenoids are not the problem as per my ENT Surgeon who did the FESS&SEPTOPLASTY  for deviated nasal septum.

I have tried all the nasal corticosteroids and ended them all because ultimately they result in some hard to treat sinus infections

Indoor plants are indeed a good option.  I will try them.
« : March 21, 2019, 03:21:09 AM aswinpras06 »
melt
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« #4 : March 21, 2019, 08:45:54 AM »

Hey Aswinpras,

Thanks for chatting with me.

It does sound like you may have sleep apnea if you're not getting refreshing sleep. So have you been diagnosed with sleep apnea?
Did you take out 4 premolars and now you have gaps between your teeth where they are missing?
Man you got POIS quite young! Must have been a horrible time.
How is your management of POIS? are your symptoms under control? Have you had a look at my treatment protocols?
The speech difficulty is due to swelling of the facial muscles and tongue. You need to remove the fluid in the muscles and essentially retrain your speech. I have had this problem too. It is a bit of a pain but you can make it fun by singing out loud, counting out loud, saying tongue twisters, etc
Have you seen a chiropractor before ? it is important to put your spine back into the correct alignment. This also reduces inflammation in the muscles because when the spine is out of its correct alignment, the muscles are pushing and pulling in an awkward position. The muscles are straining more and hence become tired and sore and more inflamed. Think of it as lifting a heavy box with bad posture, not bending your knees. It doesn't feel right and doesn't feel good. Something similar will happen if your spine is out.
This is because the muscles attach to the bone in the spine, so the position of the spine segments will push or pull the muscles into bad positions.

Also, can you tell me if you have pain in the jaw joint, the TMJ, ( it is next to the ear) temporomandibular joint, when chewing?
Does it look like your mandible, lower jaw, is too far back when you look from the side?
Have you had your wisdom teeth out?

It is difficult to make a full assessment without actually seeing you but I'll get on to my new theory. It would be nice to see if other people are having similar issues.

Ok, so the autonomic nervous system is comprised of two arms. The Sympathetic nervous system and parasympathetic nervous system.
They are like Yin and yang, two sides to the same coin, head and tails.
They control the subconscious functioning of your body
They keep you alive.
They are nerves that run throughout your entire body like roads and train tracks that connect a city to its neighbouring suburbs.

EJACULATION is controlled by the sympathetic nervous system.
this would explain why in POIS, the inflammation is generalised. inflammation goes over the entire body because it travels along the sympathetic nervous system
it is a form of neurogenic inflammation
hence we get such a vast variety of symptoms in almost every part of the body
all the symptoms are inflammation driven and can be reversed by treating and removing the inflammation. The inflammation unfortunately cannot be stopped but can be minimised
Because the inflammation travels along the sympathetic pathway which keeps us alive, there is really no way to turn it off
you cant turn off the sympathetic pathway .

After I realised this, i just focused on managing the inflammation as you can see in my treatment protocols
The best i could do was minimise the inflammation and clear it as quickly as possible
I can clear the inflammation in a day, but there is a residual inflammation that takes a bit longer to clear. This is due to a build up of metabolites such as histamine, substance P , serotonin lactic acid. These chemicals need to be flushed out from the inflamed areas

Where does braces and airway and sleep apnea fit in?

The upper jaw, (maxilla) controls the position of the lower jaw (mandible ) through the teeth
you bite your teeth together in a certain position and this determines where your upper and lower jaw meet.
Your airway consists of the nose and the mouth and it joins up in the back of your throat, then it goes down into the wind pipe into your lungs - check an anatomy book
nasal breathing is natural.
mouth breathing is unnatural and a human learnt trait. animals breathe through their nose

if your maxilla is too small or narrow, it impacts the nasal passages which are directly above the maxilla, this can restrict the nasal passages and impair airflow. Also if you experience sinusitis or allergic rhinitis, allergies, sneezing, etc it can inflame your nasal mucosa and make the nasal passages blocked as well and this makes it difficult to breathe from the nose.
These problems with nose breathing need to be fixed. Hence I asked you about all your breathing problems

The back of your throat is the part of the airway leading to your lungs. This section can be reduced in size if the lower jaw is too far back thus reducing the size of this space.
The mandible can be pushed into a retruded/ backward position if the maxilla is small and narrow or if the maxilla is also in backward position .
This results in a narrowing of the airway leading to the lung. Hence less air is able to be delivered to the lungs.
This problem is further exacerbated when you sleep.
when you sleep, your body becomes paralysed to keep you in a state of sleep. this means that the neck muscles also become paralysed and the airway potentially can collapse. this is sleep apnea. This  blockage of the airway means you stop breathing multiple times during your sleep. Your body becomes oxygen deprived.
it becomes deoxygenated. at the same time the amount of carbon dioxide in the body builds up. you breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide.
as the carbon dioxide levels build up in the blood stream, it creates a weak acid , carbonic acid, the same acid in soft drink.
this results in respiratory acidosis.
your body likes a certain pH, it doesnt like it too acidic or too alkaline. i.e it doesnt like being too hot or too cold , it likes it just right
if your body goes into acidosis from deoxygenation, it predisposes to CHRONIC INFLAMMATORY CONDITIONS ! for which POIS is one
MIND blowing!
Could POIS be due to chronic deoxygenation? Could the most important nutrient that we're missing be OXYGEN this whole time !? Everyone is trying to replace vitamins but has anyone considered OXYGEN?


Hence my questions about your airway.
My airway is also restricted and I am looking to fix it .
I need to get my tonsils out and move my lower jaw more forward so my airway doesnt collapse during my sleep.
I am in the process of getting treatment so I can't tell you if this theory is true or not.
The treatment process is prolonged and may take 2-3 years so if you feel like this theory makes sense and you want to treat it, as I suggest you should, you should start now. You have nothing to lose by fixing your airway. You'll gain better sleep

Another potential thing that could be happening is related to your jaw.
The TMJ joint is made up of the condyle from the lower jaw which sits in the glenoid fossa . behind the condyle, in the joint space are retrodiscal tissues and nerves such as the auriculotemporal nerve and sympathetic nerves.

The condyle should sit slightly lower and towards the front of the joint
when the condyle is in the wrong position, usually it is sitting higher up and backwards, this compresses the nerves in the back of the TMJ and can irritate the sympathetic nerves.
Think of it as, if someone keeps annoying you all day long, eventually you have enough and you snap.
Something similar may be happening to the sympathetic nerve  and this is known as SYMPATHETIC DYSTROPHY!

the condyle can be in the wrong position if you have temporomandibular joint disorder (TMD)
this could be because your lower jaw is too far back
your lower jaw can be too far back when you have 4 premolars taken out and braces completed - this applies to myself

I have had TMJ scans done, and my condyle is compressing that nerve. I also have pain in my TMJ when i bite down, I have only just realised.
When i eat, i am constant pointing on the sympathetic nerve because the condyle goes back wards, and compresses the nerve.
i also clench and grind my teeth at night with clenching throughout the day . This adds extra irritation to the sympathetic never in the TMJ
So the sympathetic nerve is constantly being irritated 24/7 by my TMJ and this is potentially irritating the sympathetic nervous system and causing it to react abberantly.
REMEMBER  ejaculation is controlled by the SYMPATHETIC SYSTEM!!!

So could it be that the source of POIS is coming from nerve irritation in the JAW??

This will take time to correct, and it will take time for the nerves to calm down.
It is not a silver bullet.

It will be expensive to correct but what do you have to lose.
Spend the rest of your life as a prisoner inside your body?
or fix your airway and put your jaw back in the correct position??
I think the answer is simple

Now there is a problem with getting treatment done.
I will go into this at another time

Let me know what you think ?





aswinpras06
Jr. Member
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« #5 : March 22, 2019, 02:00:32 AM »

Thanks so much for your enormous reply Melt.

It took me over half an hour to read your reply.   You must have spent a few hours for posting it.    Huge effort.  It will help many of us in this forum.
I am not a medical person and will try to answer your questions as far as possible.

I have not done a sleep test till now.  But I am very sure that I have sleep apnea due to my allergies and pois. I can get good sleep in villages/countryside.  But unfortunately due to my work I cannot shift my home from my city.

I have never removed any teeth for my braces.  But my dentist advised me to remove 2 of my maxillary teeth for braces to work, in my review appointments.  But due to speech difficulty I quit my braces and did not remove any teeth and stopped visiting him.

I have some pain in my TMJ while chewing on my right side.  I think I am having it only after I have removed my lower jaw horizontally impacted wisdom teeth and 2nd molar due to tooth decay two years back.  Before that I have not had any TMJ pain while chewing.

Yes my mandible is too far back, because when I close my mouth, my lower jaw front teeth is too far back from my upper jaw front teeth.  Also I will try to take TMJ scans for it to find out any problems with my TMJ.

Your lack of oxygen theory looks good because it can cause chronic inflammation.  Many of us are skinny with allergy problems and TMJ problems, it can constrict the airway and prevent proper oxygenation.  Also in my case I have recently got a severe lung infection and found out that I have bronchiectasis(irreversible damage to the lungs) which might have been caused by some viral/bacterial infection during childhood.

May be due to that I am always in a chronic hypoxia state from my teenage which might also be causing the pois flare ups.

Will post again Melt if I found any useful treatment options or any new findings.  Thanks once again.

Vandemolen
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« #6 : March 22, 2019, 09:22:11 AM »

20 years ago I got 1 tooth removed. First they made a filling. But because the little ‘perforation in the tooth was to deep the filling pressed againt the nerve. They had to remove the nerve and the next week I would have to return to fill the hole in a proper way. But the next day my tooth broke ater eating a sandwich. So I got a ‘dental bridge’. The downside of that my nerve is gone that if there is an infection I will not feel it because there is no nerve. I do not think it is related but 3 years later I got POIS.

POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.
melt
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« #7 : May 16, 2019, 09:18:19 AM »

Hey sorry about the delay in replies. Got caught up in a fair bit of work.

So I have started my temporomandibular joint (TMJ) disorder treatment with occlusal splint therapy which aims to bring my lower jaw out of a compressed position.
It takes my jaw slightly more forward and downwards so that it doesn't compress the nerves in the back of the jaw joint when eating, talking, clenching, grinding.
The nerve in the back of the TMJ is a sympathetic nerve, the auriculotemporal nerve, and seeing as ejaculation is controlled by the sympathetic system, there was a good chance that the two are linked.

I wear a day and night splint. The day splint is called a GELB splint and it brings my jaw forward. I wear this splint all day, I eat with it, I talk with it. I clench and grind with it.
This allows my TMJ to rest and heal up and it also removes the irritation and damage to the nerves in the back of the joint.

At night I wear an upper Farrar splint. This keeps my jaw in a forward position, thus opening up my airway and it also stops me from grinding my teeth because the splint keeps my teeth separated.

I have been wearing the splints for 9 days so far with a POIS challenge yesterday. I can say the POIS reaction appears to be much milder. I did not take any steroids, NSAIDS, or antihistamines.

I still followed my anti- POIS protocol.

The recovery appears much quicker.

The results are very promising so far. Perhaps a bit too early to celebrate but there is hope at last

Again it would be interesting to see how many people have a problematic jaw or trouble with breathing.
It needs to be assessed, sleep studies need to be undertaken, TMJ CBCT xrays are needed in 3 views (mouth open, mouth closed at rest, teeth clenching)
The airway needs to be assessed for any obstructions such as any inflamed nasal mucosa, enlarged adenoids, tonsils, etc.

The problem with getting treatment is that you can't just ask any dentist to make you a splint or treat your TMJ disorder (TMD).
A lot of dentist don't fully understand the TMJ disorders and don't treat it adequately.
You would need to ask for all the things mentioned above.

It's nice to categorise all the different types of POIS, find different vitamins and pills to treat it but what we are all searching for is the source of the problem.

TMJ dysfunction may very well be the source and should be treated to see if POIS symptoms improve.
TMD treatment will take about 12 months to complete.

After TMD treatment, I will be undergoing further treatment to get my teeth into the correct position which involves some jaw expansion with a plate for 12 months then braces to move the teeth into the correct position for 24 months

Treatment is expensive but is spread of 5 years.

First of all you should look to addressing the TMD and if you find it is improving the symptoms then continue on with the rest of the plan. More on this later.


melt
Newbie
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« #8 : May 17, 2019, 09:01:39 AM »

20 years ago I got 1 tooth removed. First they made a filling. But because the little ‘perforation in the tooth was to deep the filling pressed againt the nerve. They had to remove the nerve and the next week I would have to return to fill the hole in a proper way. But the next day my tooth broke ater eating a sandwich. So I got a ‘dental bridge’. The downside of that my nerve is gone that if there is an infection I will not feel it because there is no nerve. I do not think it is related but 3 years later I got POIS.

Hey Vandemolen,

Thanks for the input. It sounds like the tooth that was removed had a very big hole and unfortunately couldn't be saved. You had a bridge place there which fills the gap with the tooth and keeps your other teeth from moving which is fine. You just need to make sure you floss or get some small brushes (piksters or Tepe) to clean under the bridge.

I don't think this particular event would direct cause POIS.

I'm more concerned about problems with your Jaw joint like if you have any pain there, clicking, it opens funny, it locks?, it hurts to eat? you have trouble sleeping?
wake up unrefreshed, get tired easily, drinking lots of caffeine


Vandemolen
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« #9 : May 19, 2019, 11:10:01 AM »

No I do not have these problems. I have a bad sleep, but is not caused my teeth or jaw.

POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.
melt
Newbie
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: 14


« #10 : May 19, 2019, 10:32:41 PM »

No I do not have these problems. I have a bad sleep, but is not caused my teeth or jaw.

Hey Vandemolen,

Have you had your sleep checked?
What problems are you having?

If you haven't had it checked it may be best to get a sleep study done to rule out an airway problem.
If you don't get good sleep it increases the chance of having chronic inflammatory problems such as POIS and also increases risk of cancer

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