Norepinephrine depletion immediately after orgasm

[joelawerence]

I saw this publication link in one of the threads, don?t remember who the poster is. But thanks to that poster for the link: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237119490_Peer_Reviewed_Open_Access_Free

The publication has details of how the various hormones and neurotransmitters are involved in sex and orgasm. I know already knew the role of most of these, but wanted to find which of these hormones or transmitters are capable of increasing or decreasing at a rapid pace. Why I was interested in that is because we all know that after orgasm the main feeling that we get it is that something in our body is getting depleted fast and we enter into the POIS phase in a few minutes. So in going through the link something interesting I found was regarding the neurotransmitters/hormones norepinephrine and epinephrine. These are extracts from page 4 of the publication:

'(e) Epinephrine
Plasma   levels   of   epinephrine   have   been   shown   to increase  prior  to  viewing   an erotic   film,  slowly  increase during   masturbation,   peak   at   orgasm,  and   return   to baseline level within several  minutes  of  orgasm.'

'(f) Norepinephrine
In   men,   blood   plasma   NE   levels   were   positively correlated with arousal and erection during masturbation and sexual activity, increased upto 12-fold at orgasm and declined  to  baseline levels  within 2  minutes of  reaching orgasm'

My curious mind asks this question: What if POIS sufferers already have moderate norepinephrine level and the rise and decline that happens after orgasm takes the level even lower and only increasing slowly over a few days when no further orgasm is done?

Now read this link as well to get an idea of how low norepinephrine is the main reason from ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia: https://www.verywellhealth.com/norepinephrine-what-does-or-doesnt-it-do-for-you-3967568

Some extracts from the link:
'Loss of alertness and memory problems are part of our cognitive dysfunction ("brain fog" or "fibro fog"), which is one of the top complaints among us, often ranking just behind pain and fatigue. Sometimes, people list it as their worst symptom, especially when it's the symptom causing bigger problems (such as the inability to do your job.) A lot of us have left careers because we no longer had the mental ability to do what's required.'

'Other things that raise norepinephrine include:
Sleep,
Exercise,
Meeting goals,
Love,
Aggression,
Alcohol.'

Of these ones, the three - Sleep, Exercise and Alcohol has definitely helped me majorly in managing POIS. Alcohol has the most immediate effect on me, with a pint or two of beer I feel as if in my POIS free teen days but it wears off as the drunk state wears off.

The question now is: is it possible that the decline in their levels is drastic in POIS sufferers. If true would mean that taking SNRIs or Dopamine increasing drugs will only have low effect as even though the baseline may increase the drastic fall will remain unchanged. So the only proper treatment in that case would be a drug or mechanism with which the drop is slowed down and the drop is controlled to be at baseline level only.

Let me know your thoughts, guys!

[Nas]

Hi joelawerence,
I've already talked about this subject in this thread: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2908.0
The way I tested it, is by taking an L-Dopa supplement (Mucuna Pruriens). L-Dopa is the precursor to dopamine and dopamine is the precursor to Epinephrine and Norepinephrine.
Yesterday I had an orgasm, today I took 3 pills ( 20mg each ). It didn't stop POIS but it motivated the shit out of me, it's overall great but not a POIS stopper.
If you have any other suggestion let me know, but for now I rest my case on Catecholamines.

[joelawerence]

Hi Nas, thanks for the link to your other thread.

The reason Dopamine increasing drugs or SNRIs may not be fully effective is possibly because it only increases the baseline dopamine and norepinephrine levels. The decline of norepinephrine post orgasm may be more pronounced in us which will not be much affected and hence minimal effect on stopping POIS symptoms. I don't know what the solution that we can try for that. But something to maybe look into, for example finding which chemicals are involved in making those norepinephrines inactive after orgasm. Once we find that then a possible drug that could facilitate that can be researched.

[Nas]

Joelawerence, I took L-Dopa which is pretty much the closest step to getting dopamine as possible - note that I am not stimulating dopamine, I'm actually taking the substance that will get transformed into dopamine. So if dopamine is depleted, that'd be the solution, yet it doesn't seem to work for me.
Maybe there is a enzymatic block in the metabolism of Dopamine? Or is it just simply not the main underlined issue?

[joelawerence]

Joelawerence, I took L-Dopa which is pretty much the closest step to getting dopamine as possible - note that I am not stimulating dopamine, I'm actually taking the substance that will get transformed into dopamine. So if dopamine is depleted, that'd be the solution, yet it doesn't seem to work for me.
Maybe there is a enzymatic block in the metabolism of Dopamine? Or is it just simply not the main underlined issue?

I am not sure about Dopamine but the publication says that Norepinephrine increases almost 12 fold before orgasm and then drops in a few mins: 'In   men,   blood   plasma   NE   levels   were   positively correlated with arousal and erection during masturbation and sexual activity, increased upto 12-fold at orgasm and declined  to  baseline levels  within 2  minutes of  reaching orgasm'

So a dopamine increase may increase the baseline norepinephrine. But when the decline after orgasm happens, what if the decline is more pronounced in POIS sufferers? That will still remain unchanged with Dopamine increasing drugs as well.

[Nas]

I'm not really sure about what you mean by baseline Norepinephrine. Dopamine is the precursor to Norepinephrine, so abundance of serum dopamine, provides needed Norepinephrine replenishment after orgasm. 

[nanna1]

I saw this publication link in one of the threads, don't remember who the poster is. But thanks to that poster for the link: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237119490_Peer_Reviewed_Open_Access_Free

I think Muon contributed this paper. It has some good information for sure.

I'm adding this review paper to this thread. It gives a very basic overview but is well readable: Biology of Sexual Dysfunction