Author Topic: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms  (Read 6152 times)

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
Since Waldinger's paper was ever published, POIS was associated with immune activity, and the side effects were seen as caused by inflammation. How ever no has consistently treated his POIS symptoms by taking NSAID's. NSAID's are the first method of reducing inflammation all over the body since it inhibits the expression of COX 1-2 which are the major enzymes the body uses for the formation of Prostaglandins, this should've made, at least, some remedy to the symptoms, but at least in my case, it didn't. I also investigated the role of histamine without any success. One other point is that many of us who did MRI's in the brain, did not find any observable swelling. Thus any approach is proposed, in that instead of looking at the cognitive symptoms as a result/symptom of POIS. We could perhaps consider it as the main issue around POIS. Or perhaps to be more precise, it is a type of POIS where they immune activity is instigated by hormone depletion instead of the other way around. Which makes more sense, since the brain is quite far from the genital region to be directly affected by it if you ask me.

This thread could be potentially be a deeper investigation to Catecholamines deficiency theory. 

I'll start the first topic with this article:  Are you suffering from The Blahs?

This article is well written and articulates many observable phenomena that have been discovered in this forum.

"Dopamine, Epinephrine (adrenaline) and Norepinephrine (noradrenaline) are the primary catecholamines or ?cats?, as they are known. Catecholamines function both as hormones and neurotransmitters."

"If you have adequate cats, you feel energized, upbeat, alert and focused and you don?t crave caffeine or sugar for a pick-me-up.
If your cats are low, you may feel the kind of depression that lands you curled up in the bed all day with extremely low motivation."

If you ask me I have strong cravings for coffee and sugar when I'm in POIS which could be an indication of low dopamine, it can also explain what it actually helps with POIS.

"These are typical symptoms of people suffering from low cats:
- Trouble dragging yourself out of bed
- Inability to motivate yourself
- Feelings of worthlessness
- Feelings of hopelessness
- May lose temper for minor reasons
- Inability to handle stress
- Not enough focus or concentration
- Numb-feeling emotionally
- Lack of energy
- Craving carbs, alcohol, caffeine or drugs for energy
- Procrastination and indecisiveness
- Apathy
- Easily bored
- Attention Deficit Disorder diagnosis
- Reluctant to socialize, desire to be alone
- Lack of concern for family and friends"

I feel these are very accurate to what I feel right after orgasm, it does not mention difficulty speaking, trouble doing day to day jobs and bad short term memory. 

"What can Deplete Catecholamines?
- Chronic stress over time or acute stress during a crisis
- Genetic anomaly?some people have a genetic tendency toward low cats
- Chronic dieting with low calorie or high carb diets
- Low protein intake
- Sedentary lifestyle
- Low estrogen or testosterone
- Uncontrolled blood sugar
- Iron anemia"

Note Low estrogen or testosterone and Iron anemia these are two phenomena that have been discussed in this forum.

"These steps will allow your body and brain to receive the nutrients needed to make the neurotransmitters it needs to function optimally"
- Improve your stomach acid levels to properly digest and allow your body to use the nutrients you eat.
- Eat plenty of healthy fats and especially protein. Avoid these cooking oils and use plenty of these oils.
- Increase your Omega-3 essential fatty acid intake. A simple test can detect your current levels.
- Check your Vitamin D levels and supplement where needed. Vitamin D directs the conversion of tyrosine to cats.
- Ditch processed foods and enjoy lots of whole, organic food.
- Drink plenty of clean water.
- Eat fermented foods that are rich in probiotics.
- Good sources of catecholamine-rich foods are beef, fish and eggs. Americans who are not vegetarians/vegans typically consume plenty of these foods.
- Start slow with exercise. Try yoga, tai chi or meditation. Or simply take a walk.
- Consider amino acid and other supplements once your healthy nutrition is in place."

Again, these which are in bold, are all discussed in this forum in detail.

Now to the supplements part, the Article proposes the following supplements:
- Tyrosine
- Phenylalanine
- Beta-Phenylethylamine (PEA)
- SAMe
- mucuna pruriens
- Blueberry Extract
- Alpha Lipoic Acid, Selenium and N-acetyl-cysteine

Notable comments on these supplements:

Talking about Tyrosine: "These important nutrients are cofactors used in the conversion of tyrosine:  Folate, Niacin, Vitamin C, Copper and SAMe. In other words, you need these to make tyrosine convert into the catecholamines."
See Folate, Niacin and SAMe are the most successful remedies that have been tested in this forum.

Talking about Phenylalanine: "Phenylalanine metabolism requires the following cofactors: Vitamin B6 (P5P), Niacin, Vitamin C, Copper, SAMe, Iron and Folate."
Again these in bold were all discussed in this forum.

b_jim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2019, 03:37:15 PM »
Absolutely agree. The fact tyrosine is pumped by cathecolamines production and by thyroid is something i didn't think before.
Taurine = Anti-Pois
Suffering from lyme disease

Vandemolen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 901
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2019, 04:05:30 PM »
Sleep also plays an important role in catecholamines. Better sleep means a better gut. And in the gut is where a few hormones are produced. A healthy gut also means that you will sleep better. A bad sleep means high cortisol. Cortisol controls adrenaline and noradrenaline.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 06:15:11 PM by Vandemolen »
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2019, 06:20:41 PM »
Sleep also plays an important role in catecholamines. Better sleep means a better gut. And in the gut is where a few hormones are produced. A healthy gut also means that you will sleep better. A bad sleep means high cortisol. Cortisol controls adrenaline and noradrenaline.
That's weird since the use of corticosteroids in my case is quite benefitial. I've read in an article somewhere that corticosteroids can potentially damage the brain and reduce Norepinephrine and dopamine production, quite paradoxical...

Hopeoneday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 692
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 08:41:56 AM »
Guys... Nas , as i observing my self lately i can fell that my body cant metabolise
some chemicals normaly. Those test results (genetic) i posted recently from one poiser,
mean exsces cemicals not less,
so in certein situations like arosaul sex, "He hawe exsces cemicals" and cant degrade
naturaly in proper whey.
Check this out: My conection with trauma and hiperstress..

http://www.healing-arts.org/tir/n-r-diehl.htm


    Increased levels of catecholamines (chronic hyperstress)
    Decreased levels of glucocorticoids (poor immune functioning)
    Decreased alpha-2 Adrenergetic receptors (less regulation of catecholamines)
    Increased endogenous opioid levels during traumatic memory triggers (equivalent to the consumption of 8mg of morphine!)
    Acoustic startle response: (ACR) Survivors of trauma are easily trigger by loud noises or surprises sounds. While other's may "jump" only the first couple of times they hear a loud noise, trauma survivors often startle with each and every repeat of the noise.
   


« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 09:38:35 AM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 10:31:01 AM »
HOP, maybe try adrenocepter antagonists and see if they work.

FernandoPOIS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • 37 year old. POIS Since I was 28. Vagus Nerve Heal
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2019, 12:34:35 PM »
I agree with you NAS.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2019, 06:21:29 PM »
So yesterday I tried a medication called Bromocriptine. It is supposed to lower prolactin levels and raise dopamine. I tried that right after orgasm ( I also did another round right after that cause I'm horny like that ). I also took all of this in a day where I worked my ass off for a house we're moving in to, and didn't get enough time to eat a lot, so my blood pressure and sugar levels were probably low.  So all of that culminated in my getting super dizzy and nauseous, and I threw up a lot. I had to take two bags of nutrients to re-up my blood pressure. Bromocriptine stimulates Dopamine receptor non-specifically so it can stimulate D2 receptors which induced my vomiting + low blood sugar dizziness. Suffice to say I don't recommend this. The medication had no immediate effect, however now I'm on my second day and I don't feel quite bad, maybe it was the vomiting or maybe it was the medication. I suspect that perhaps supplementing L-Dopa is a much better and safer way than to stimulate dopamine receptors, after all you can't stimulate what's already depleted. I'm obviously not taking the medication nor do I recommend it. The experiment was, interesting though, I guess...

FernandoPOIS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • 37 year old. POIS Since I was 28. Vagus Nerve Heal
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 06:24:40 AM »
I'm laughing a lot here. Very cool these experiences. Cheers, my friend.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 08:42:55 AM »
I'm laughing a lot here. Very cool these experiences. Cheers, my friend.
Why are you laughing at my misery ;D

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5628
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 02:14:32 PM »
Nas, can I laugh, too?



10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 02:41:47 PM »
Nas, can I laugh, too?




Help your self :P

FernandoPOIS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • 37 year old. POIS Since I was 28. Vagus Nerve Heal
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2019, 12:11:18 PM »
I'm sorry, but I keep remembering my experiences with various products that unfortunately did not result in anything and some days I thought I would die due to side effects. Today I think funny but at the time it was haunting hahahaha
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

koko

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2019, 07:42:02 PM »
I think the pois is due to depletion of dopamine in the brain after the orgasm. I convinced my doctor to prescribe a dopamine receptor drug, a drug given to Parkinson's disease and to restless leg syndrome.

I hope this medicine will improve my life.

Wolf berry

  • Guest
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2019, 08:49:22 PM »
I think the pois is due to depletion of dopamine in the brain after the orgasm. I convinced my doctor to prescribe a dopamine receptor drug, a drug given to Parkinson's disease and to restless leg syndrome.
Qoute from hurray

I hope this medicine will improve my life.
I spent a while trying dopamine-related medications, hoping that they could alleviate my POIS:

piracetam
l-tyrosine
selegiline
wellbutrin
cabergoline
modafinil
Adderal
Caffeine

There's probably a bunch more that I can't remember right now, most were a number of years ago.

They didn't ultimately do much for me, although in some cases they gave my brain a boost when I was out of POIS.

I'm currently taking Ritalin, with the help of my psychiatrist (40mg/day). This has been the most useful medicine so far by some distance, but for me it doesn't prevent or cure POIS.

I'm not suggesting that there isn't a link between POIS and dopamine, but various dopaminergic drugs didn't feel like they were doing much to fight my POIS. I would be very interested to see somebody reporting long-term success with this class of drugs, I believed for years that dopamine was the key to the POIS mystery.

it can make you mania without cognitive improvement!

All the best, Wolf berry

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2019, 09:34:06 PM »
I spent a while trying dopamine-related medications, hoping that they could alleviate my POIS:

piracetam
l-tyrosine
selegiline
wellbutrin
cabergoline
modafinil
Adderal
Caffeine

There's probably a bunch more that I can't remember right now, most were a number of years ago.

They didn't ultimately do much for me, although in some cases they gave my brain a boost when I was out of POIS.

I'm currently taking Ritalin, with the help of my psychiatrist (40mg/day). This has been the most useful medicine so far by some distance, but for me it doesn't prevent or cure POIS.

I'm not suggesting that there isn't a link between POIS and dopamine, but various dopaminergic drugs didn't feel like they were doing much to fight my POIS. I would be very interested to see somebody reporting long-term success with this class of drugs, I believed for years that dopamine was the key to the POIS mystery.

it can make you mania without cognitive improvement!

All the best, Wolf berry
Good to know, I haven't tried them yet and I feel pessimistic about their function. This is largely and indicator that it's not dopamine that is responsible, especially when it gives you mania without improving Cognitive symptoms. Any idea on what it could be otherwise? Something that could also potentially be involved in the HPA axis?

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2019, 02:01:39 PM »
Took L-Dopa yesterday. Surprisingly, I also had an orgasm that day. I took L-Dopa the first time and it was a good experience, I recommend it if you're suffering from anxiety and trouble focusing. However, its effect was not fundamental. When I had orgasm that day the symptoms arose with the same intensity. I took L-Dopa again after that and it also didn't do much. I later took B-comlex (B1-B6-B12) and it seems to work well with L-Dopa to increase relaxation. Yet I also recommend to have an anti-emetic with L-Dopa or any non-specific dopamine booster to avoid nausea. Overall it doesn't seem very promising for the catecholamines theory. 

Wolf berry

  • Guest
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2019, 06:11:18 PM »
Took L-Dopa yesterday. Surprisingly, I also had an orgasm that day. I took L-Dopa the first time and it was a good experience, I recommend it if you're suffering from anxiety and trouble focusing. However, its effect was not fundamental. When I had orgasm that day the symptoms arose with the same intensity. I took L-Dopa again after that and it also didn't do much. I later took B-comlex (B1-B6-B12) and it seems to work well with L-Dopa to increase relaxation. Yet I also recommend to have an anti-emetic with L-Dopa or any non-specific dopamine booster to avoid nausea. Overall it doesn't seem very promising for the catecholamines theory.

Vitamins B's play several role in the body including being important  to brain functions and energy.  It has been tried by several members with good results. Some of the theories behind the success of vitamin Bs are they help replenish brain neurotransmitters, they replace something lost after ejaculation and they help reduce excess histamine produced by the body.
 
quote by Edorgon
Yeah, I too have noticed that although B vitamins are really effective for getting my energy, blood flow and mental function up, after about a week they begin to cause an absolutely crushing fatigue. I don't know what to do about it. I'm thinking of just kind of scaling back how often i use them.

Has anyone else had this problem and, if so, how'd you fix it?

Quote by UnderstandingPois
he effects i get from taking a multivitamin is. Irritablness , feel crappy cant think at all or use personality trait thoughts. Severe depression. Everythings looks duller and is so bright and bothers me. No emotion . No energy . I noticed while taking it waayy harder to control urge of orgasm. Cause of all the awfullness and depression. Basically feel like hell. And i cannot believe one multivitamin does all that to me without adderall. And so much more horrible stuff like no socializing at all. Will stay away from people. Crushes personality completely. In every way it makes me sick and dead.  Cant proccess or understand things at all really very hard. Have to reread and reread to understand. My pois started when i hit puberty. And around the same time i started taking multivitamins and vitamins. So if that long i was taking them for and how i feel crappy just taking one multivitamin. Im so sure for me that thats what that chalky white stuff was , build up. First time my condition improved was when i was taking supplements and prozac n others and i had a orgasm and pop i felt in my head and all this chalky stuff came out for a long time in a big matter.  I cant ever imagine going thrue pois ever again. Its the definition of hell.  Im so glad those days are over. Yearsn years. Hope maybe this
 will benefit someone?

Qoute by Daveman
Hey UnderstandingPois,

Long time!

Glad you're feeling better. I agree about the multi-vitamins. At one point I started taking multi-vits and they made things WAY worse. Like maybe 5 times worse. I guess that's why I was surprised that just niacin, and/or the B vitamins worked so well. With niacin, I'm like you, no POIS!

Kurtosis said it not too long ago, POIS is a little different for each person, yet the "broken system" is the same for everybody. It's just what part of it is broken and how that makes the difference.

It seems to me for instance that Adderall doesn't work for many, nor does niacin work for all. So it's still vital to get to the bottom of all of this.

The important is that you are POIS free, and "chalky stuff free" too!

it?s been only 1 day and you say it help your pois symptoms

All the Best, Wolf Berry

Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2019, 07:40:32 PM »


The important is that you are POIS free, and "chalky stuff free" too!

it?s been only 1 day and you say it help your pois symptoms

All the Best, Wolf Berry
I don't think you understood what I said, it did not make me POIS free it only had minor relaxing effect, and taking Neurobine with it seems to make it better. But if we truly had catecholamines depletion I kind of expect a fundamental change, and it didn't bring me that change.

koko

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Catecholamines Depletion as a Possible Cause for Cognitive Symptoms
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2019, 03:40:57 AM »
A month later I took a dopamine agonist with a name drug is "Requip 2 mg". Unfortunately, the drug did not have any effect on the symptoms. I asked my doctor to try to increase the dosage of the agonist for dopamine but thought it unnecessary and prescribed more psychiatric drugs instead of dopamine. The agony is still in my life