Author Topic: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?  (Read 8644 times)

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2389
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2020, 04:18:38 PM »
Prolonged static postures is worse than moving around.
I also can't tolerate long standing, with increased sweating and so on, speaking for a overactive sympathetic system during POIS.

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2389
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2020, 11:42:26 AM »
Anatomy and Physiology of Erection, Ejaculation, and Orgasm

"While these are similar between genders, in men there is additional activation in the periaqueductal gray matter."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periaqueductal_gray

"The periaqueductal gray (PAG, also known as the central gray) is a nucleus that plays a critical role in autonomic function"

EnriqueM075

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2020, 04:06:23 PM »


How does that lead to cognitive and flu like symptoms though?


Hi. Excuse my opinion, I am new to this disease and in the forum, in a post I commented on my story. I do not know if it will have to do but I took clonazepam for 13 years and abruptly stopped it, which caused me withdrawal and later anxiety, this weakened my immune system in such a way that I got the flu, my ears and eyes became infected at the same time And my throat gave me a kind of horrible stomach flu that lasted two days, I had vomiting, diarrhea, weakness, and another day my neck tightened in a way that I could not even move, specifically the sternocleidomastoid. I don't know if all this is related, it has to do with the nervous system


Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2389
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2020, 08:34:03 AM »
Dysautonomia International Conference 2020 summary

https://dropitlikeitspots.com/dysautonomia-international-conference-2020-day-1-and-2/

https://dropitlikeitspots.com/dysautonomia-international-conference-2020-day-3-notes/

https://dropitlikeitspots.com/dysautonomia-international-conference-2020-day-4-notes/

Interesting topic about Sex Hormones and Dysautonomia in the first link: Dr. Blitshteyn has a personal observation that some men with POTS, NCS, or OH may have lower than normal testosterone. When she sees this in clinic, she refers those men to see an endocrinologist.

Very high: "70% of POTS patients have low blood volume. I was surprised by how high this figure is"

https://www.dinet.org/info/pots/pots-what-helps-r100/
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 09:18:13 AM by Muon »

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2389
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2020, 07:23:43 AM »
Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome

"Prognosis depends on aetiology. Patients may have continuous symptoms. They may be unable to cope with their employment or normal daily activities. After post-viral episodes around 50% of patients recover in 2–5 years. Prognosis is good in adolescent patients. In the majority >90% respond to a combination of physical methods as well as pharmacotherapy. In the hyperadrenergic state patients will require life long treatment. In the secondary form the causative disorder has to be treated in order for patients to become symptom?free.

Pyridostigmine, an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, has shown promising results in the management of POTS caused by post-viral infection and autoimmune disorders.29 Low dose combination therapy is better than high dose monotherapy.
"


Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2389
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2020, 10:31:41 AM »
Wrinkled fingers

"So while driving my car today, my fingers randomly got super wrinkly. My hands were not sweaty and had not been in any water... It was quite interesting. I didn't think much of it but out of curiosity looked it up to see what causes wrinkled/pruny fingers aside from water, and much to my surprise, parasympathetic nervous system issues (i.e. autonomic nervous system issues) can be a cause for this! Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon that they've noticed outside of water? I'm curious to know!

Human bodies are weird.

Lol.
"

Anyone on poiscenter had these?

quikot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2020, 01:21:36 PM »
Anyone on poiscenter had these?

Yep. Does sound like me. Although in my case it's mostly left hand that's affected. The skin on my fingertips also peels off, revealing a sensitive red layer. Almost as if I burned my skin off.

Reading through your POIS case thread, I come to think that we are very similar. I share a lot of symptoms with you, even some odd ones like sunlight intolerance, pain in liver area, yellowing of skin, feeling cold etc..
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 02:05:06 PM by quikot »

berlin1984

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • Use Adaptogens and Antioxidants, they can help.
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2020, 02:54:08 PM »
The skin on my fingertips also peels off, revealing a sensitive red layer. Almost as if I burned my skin off.

I have no wrinkles, but exactly your peeling problem.
BUT: Only in the weeks before my personal hay fever seasons, also not so much during hay fever season.So the peeling starts April, while real hay fever noticeably only starts in May.
I always associated it with hay fever, never with POIS.


Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2389
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2020, 10:19:05 AM »
People with orthostatic intolerance and suspecting POIS to be autoimmune could check for adrenergic receptor autoantibodies.


Cursed

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
Dysautonomic dysregulation
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2021, 01:36:25 PM »
I wasn't sure where to post this, but I wanted to ask if anyone has these or similar symptoms.

So basically, I feel that my vascular regulation is off. E.g., I wake up with a boner, and if I lie in bed it doesn't go away very quickly, but if I sit up, bam. It's gone, immediately (vasoconstriction).

Also, if was masturbating in a standing up position, I would finish very quickly, and orgasm quality would be low, versus if I was lying in bed, or even sitting comfortably, I would last longer and orgasm quality would be higher. I knew for a long time that I had dysautonomia/orthostatic intoleracne, just never paid much attention to how it affects the regulation of sexual function.

I also have ME/CFS, so this may not apply to others, but I find it interesting in connection with theories about norepinephrine deficiency (threads about Wellbutrin, Milnacipran, etc) and wondering if others have observed anything similar?

In my opinion, it makes a lot of sense, to suggest that POIS is also closely connected to autonomic dysregulation possibly due to autoantibodies to adrenergic receptors, that's why I'm asking.

So what I'm getting at is that maybe the problem is not so much that there is a norepinephrine deficiency, but that MORE norepinephrine helps to mask the symptoms of underlying vascular dysregulation. It could also explains why some are sensitive to stress, which tends to activate sympathetic side, and since it's already always ON and trying to compensate for dysautonomia, possibly depleting even more the norepinephrine.

I think that could also explain why methylation supplements work for some, because I think they can also increase norepinephrine (not 100% sure) and other neurotransmitters, especially if someone is deficient.

Journey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
  • INTP, 19 y.o. aware of POIS since 2019
Re: Dysautonomic dysregulation
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2021, 02:16:58 PM »
Yeah I have similar things as well and I sometimes get dizzy standing up especially after orgasm if I have sat down for a while

hapl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: Dysautonomic dysregulation
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2021, 01:01:09 AM »
I wasn't sure where to post this, but I wanted to ask if anyone has these or similar symptoms.

So basically, I feel that my vascular regulation is off. E.g., I wake up with a boner, and if I lie in bed it doesn't go away very quickly, but if I sit up, bam. It's gone, immediately (vasoconstriction).

Also, if was masturbating in a standing up position, I would finish very quickly, and orgasm quality would be low, versus if I was lying in bed, or even sitting comfortably, I would last longer and orgasm quality would be higher. I knew for a long time that I had dysautonomia/orthostatic intoleracne, just never paid much attention to how it affects the regulation of sexual function.

I also have ME/CFS, so this may not apply to others, but I find it interesting in connection with theories about norepinephrine deficiency (threads about Wellbutrin, Milnacipran, etc) and wondering if others have observed anything similar?

In my opinion, it makes a lot of sense, to suggest that POIS is also closely connected to autonomic dysregulation possibly due to autoantibodies to adrenergic receptors, that's why I'm asking.

So what I'm getting at is that maybe the problem is not so much that there is a norepinephrine deficiency, but that MORE norepinephrine helps to mask the symptoms of underlying vascular dysregulation. It could also explains why some are sensitive to stress, which tends to activate sympathetic side, and since it's already always ON and trying to compensate for dysautonomia, possibly depleting even more the norepinephrine.

I think that could also explain why methylation supplements work for some, because I think they can also increase norepinephrine (not 100% sure) and other neurotransmitters, especially if someone is deficient.

I have pretty much all those symptoms, including likely CFS. I've posted a bit here about my suspicion of norepinephrine involvement, at least for my symptoms. I definitely have a certain amount of dysautonomia - tachycardia, body temperature issues, etc. Anything that spikes my adrenaline hides my symptoms, but it triggers a huge PEM crash within 24-48 hours. Even if the adrenaline spike is purely from stress or even happiness, same crash follows - headaches, muscle problems, digestive issues, brain fog.

So far, I've been unable to find a regimen that helps either CFS or POIS significantly. I experimented with Quantum's prepack which was moderately helpful, Nannas immune stack which did something but no help with POIS, and so forth. I haven't tried Milnacipran or Wellbutrin so far, but have tried various adaptogens and supplements, methylation protocols, and so on.

Have you found anything that's particularly helpful for either CFS or POIS?

Cursed

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2021, 11:28:35 AM »

I have pretty much all those symptoms, including likely CFS. I've posted a bit here about my suspicion of norepinephrine involvement, at least for my symptoms. I definitely have a certain amount of dysautonomia - tachycardia, body temperature issues, etc. Anything that spikes my adrenaline hides my symptoms, but it triggers a huge PEM crash within 24-48 hours. Even if the adrenaline spike is purely from stress or even happiness, same crash follows - headaches, muscle problems, digestive issues, brain fog.

So far, I've been unable to find a regimen that helps either CFS or POIS significantly. I experimented with Quantum's prepack which was moderately helpful, Nannas immune stack which did something but no help with POIS, and so forth. I haven't tried Milnacipran or Wellbutrin so far, but have tried various adaptogens and supplements, methylation protocols, and so on.

Have you found anything that's particularly helpful for either CFS or POIS?

The short answer is no, but I have some success with a combination of selenium (100mcg/day), zinc sulphate (7.5mg/day), vitamin D (2000IU), B2(25mg), B6(25mg), collagen(12g/day) and taurine(2g/day). I usually take these consistently and they certainly help, but it's not enough, because I still have very significant symptoms that prevent me from working or doing anything meaningful.

I also use hyroxy B12, TMG(betaine) and folate, on and off, mostly because they sometimes make things better and sometimes make everything worse.

Ubiquinol is certainly something that I feel helps a lot with energy and muscle strength, but it also seems to have some kind of a negative effect, probably on my gut, since it's very sensitive to supplements or inactive ingredients, so I also can't use it consistently.

OpiesDad

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2021, 02:24:30 AM »
I mean guys, it definitely has some sort of connection to autonomic nervous system.  Propranolol in addition to Wellbutrin are the two medications I am most reliant on.  As an aside, COVID long haulers have many of the adrenaline spike issues that we are describing, and in fact many are being prescribed propranolol or similar beta blockers to counter those symptoms.

berlin1984

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • Use Adaptogens and Antioxidants, they can help.
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2021, 02:13:46 PM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcitonin_gene-related_peptide

"CGRP has moderate effects on calcium homeostasis compared to its extensive actions in other areas, such as the autonomic nervous system."

Stimulation of noradrenergic sympathetic outflow by calcitonin gene-related peptide

Calcitonin gene-related peptide acts within the central nervous system to inhibit gastric acid secretion

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2755.msg37011#msg37011


Atogepant for the Preventive Treatment of Migraine
Atogepant is an oral, small-molecule, calcitonin gene–related peptide receptor antagonist that is being investigated for the preventive treatment of migraine.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2035908?query=featured_home


Bob Morane

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2021, 10:55:55 AM »
ANS Dysfunction. Yes I believe so. It is most probably the physiological root cause of POIS. But then why does one develop ANS dysfunction?
Dr Nemechek has this little quiz to find out if you recognize yourself in the symptoms he presents. https://www.nemechekconsultativemedicine.com/quiz/