100% symptom-free for a week on modified POIS Cascade stack

[CuriousCharacter]

Update: I've modified this stack quite a bit since initially writing this post. This is the list of supplements I'm currently taking:

2-4x daily:

• Kava
• CBD oil
• Magnesium

Morning:

• SAM-e
• B-complex
• Pregnenolone
• DHEA
• Resveratrol
• Prime Labs Herbal Testosterone Booster
• Circumin

Evening:

• EPA Xtra
• Magnesium
• Zinc
• Herbal muscle relaxant (valerian and purple passionflower)

Before O:

• CBD oil
• Circumin
• Pregnenolone
• Excedrin Extra Strength
• NAC
• Selenomethionine
• Taurine

Here's the original post...


I've been taking nanna1's stack for about two months now.

I experienced major relief, but not 100%, so I started experimenting with small modifications to the stack after the first month.

For the past week, for the first time in a very long time, I have not experienced a single one of my chronic symptoms. No brain fog, no depression, no depersonalization, none of the unbearable hip or jaw tension. Much stronger motivation, energy and libido.

Yesterday, I decided to O. Twice. Today I feel fantastic. Normally I would be in hell right now.

I've only been experiencing total relief for a week, so who knows if it will continue. But this is a very good sign.

I'm taking these supplements twice a day:

• Thorne Stress B-Complex (one capsule)
• Uridine (250mg)
• Nordic Naturals EPA Xtra and DHA Xtra (two capsules each)
• Alpha-GPC (300mg)
• SAM-e (200mg)
• Magnesium Glycinate (200mg)
• Betaine-TMG (1g)
• Taurine (500mg)
• Gingko Biloba (120mg)
• N-Acetyl-Cysteine (500mg)
• Sublingual Vitamin D (one big squirt)
• Zinc (30mg)

I bolded the things that differ from nanna1's stack. Note that I'm also taking a probiotics supplement and a collagen supplement.

Before O, I took the following:

• Excedrin Extra Strength (one tablet)
• Sublingual Vitamin D (two big squirts)
• Betaine-TMG (2g)
• Selenomethionine (100mcg)
• N-Acetyl-Cysteine (1-1.5g)
• Taurine (500mg)
• A few drops of CBD oil (not sure if this is necessary)

After O, I consumed my second batch of the twice-daily supplements, along with 200mcg of Huperzine A.

A few things to note about this stack:

• Many of the ingredients are helpful to under-methylators: SAM-e, magnesium, zinc, B-complex, betaine-TMG, NAC, etc.
• The betaine-TMG potentiates SAM-e, giving it more powerful anti-depressant effects.
• The combination of uridine and DHA has strong anti-depressant properties, and the addition of alpha-GPC, magnesium and B vitamins approximates the semi-famous "Mr. Happy" nootropic stack.

I will update this thread over the coming weeks as I see if I continue to experience 100% relief from my symptoms.

[b_jim]

Congratulations for your success. I think it's a lot of supplements. If you are sure all of them are need it's ok but be careful.

[CuriousCharacter]

I'd just like to point out that I have not achieved 100% relief using this stack, so I've continued to experiment.

I'll try to refrain from becoming so exuberant in the future until my treatment program has been maximally effective for 6+ months.

If you're curious what I'm doing now, I'm continuing to take frequently-recommended supplements daily, including magnesium, zinc, omega 3s, vitamin D, etc. I also take the nootropic aniracetam with choline 2x/day, which has dramatically improved focus, energy and motivation.

I take a large pre-pack before O, which I'm trying to reduce to the bare minimum. And I've began microdosing LSD every three days, which has a very potent anti-depressant effect and seems to crush my (cognitive/emotional) POIS symptoms if I'm currently in a POIS episode.

One thing I've noticed is that, at various points during my POIS journey, I've developed a substantial amount of muscular tension, particularly in my psoas and periformis. I believe this is directly tied to sexual repression... sexual release alleviates the unbearable stiffness, but brings about POIS symptoms like (more-severe-than-usual) depression, pressure in the head, cognitive dysfunction, etc. So right now, I'm trying to start sticking to a regular sexual release schedule (perhaps the evening before microdosing) to prevent muscular rigidity from setting in.

Note regarding LSD microdosing: I'm not advocating breaking any laws here. Obviously, see a doctor, follow the laws in your country, etc.

[CuriousCharacter]

Okay, I've been trying a new stack for over a month now, and it's been giving me 100% relief.

I know these are a lot of supplements, and it's probably not advisable to take hormones like pregnenolone without consulting with an endocrinologist. I'm going to try reducing the stack over the next few weeks, as some components have not proven themselves to be essential yet (taurine, betaine, CBD and NAC).

I've been taking these supplements daily:

• Magnesium glycinate (600-800mg daily seems to be the sweet spot for me)
• Pregnenolone (5-10mg)
• SAM-e (400mg)
• Resveratrol (to prevent pregnenolone from being converted into estradiol... 500mg)
• High dose EPA/DHA (Nordic Naturals liquid Ultimate Omega)
• Liquid vitamin D
• B-complex (Thorne #12, one capsule)
• Zinc (30mg)
• NAC (1g)
• Uridine (300mg)
• Taurine (1g)
• Betaine (1g)
• CBD oil

I've also more recently added 6g of nicotine (in the form of nicotine toothpicks) to my stack, which has had a seriously positive effect on mood, motivation and muscular tension thus far. I'm going to cycle it, 5-days-on, 2-days-off.

Before O, I take this pre-pack, which is Nanna1's pre-pack with added anti-inflammatories and pregnenolone:

• Excedrin Extra Strength
• Betaine-TMG (2g)
• Sublingual d3 (2 sprays)
• Pregnenolone
• CBD oil (30mg)
• Bio-Circumin (400mg)
• NAC (1.2g)
• Selenomethionine (200mg)

Expect this stack to be much tighter in the coming months, provided it continues to work.

[david]

Okay, I've been trying a new stack for over a month now, and it's been giving me 100% relief.

I know these are a lot of supplements, and it's probably not advisable to take hormones like pregnenolone without consulting with an endocrinologist. I'm going to try reducing the stack over the next few weeks, as some components have not proven themselves to be essential yet (taurine, betaine, CBD and NAC).

I've been taking these supplements daily:

• Magnesium glycinate (600-800mg daily seems to be the sweet spot for me)
• Pregnenolone (5-10mg)
• SAM-e (400mg)
• Resveratrol (to prevent pregnenolone from being converted into estradiol... 500mg)
• High dose EPA/DHA (Nordic Naturals liquid Ultimate Omega)
• Liquid vitamin D
• B-complex (Thorne #12, one capsule)
• Zinc (30mg)
• NAC (1g)
• Uridine (300mg)
• Taurine (1g)
• Betaine (1g)
• CBD oil

I've also more recently added 6g of nicotine (in the form of nicotine toothpicks) to my stack, which has had a seriously positive effect on mood, motivation and muscular tension thus far. I'm going to cycle it, 5-days-on, 2-days-off.

Before O, I take this pre-pack, which is Nanna1's pre-pack with added anti-inflammatories and pregnenolone:

• Excedrin Extra Strength
• Betaine-TMG (2g)
• Sublingual d3 (2 sprays)
• Pregnenolone
• CBD oil (30mg)
• Bio-Circumin (400mg)
• NAC (1.2g)
• Selenomethionine (200mg)

Expect this stack to be much tighter in the coming months, provided it continues to work.

quite impressive stack
as far as i can see around 50% of your stack improves testosterone and other hormones production
so for me no wander it helps you

i just wanted to ask you about pregnenalone
usually most men say it makes them sleepy and no other positive effects but on elder people who have adrenal fatigue pregnenalone gives good boost in hormonal system
so how old are you if its not a secret
 
another question:do you used to be a smoker before if not then it is possible to became dependent on nicotine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1939993/
 
..but it seems nicotine does help with testosterone level
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17163954
so i guess this is the reason it can give great relief on POIS

[CuriousCharacter]

as far as i can see around 50% of your stack improves testosterone and other hormones production
so for me no wander it helps you

Ah yes, there are a lot of dopamine-boosters in particular (magnesium, SAM-e, resveratrol, fish oil, uridine, CBD...).

SAM-e, B-complex and betaine helps produce neurotransmitters by supporting methylation. Pregnenolone definitely boosts the sexual hormones, which is why I stick to a low dose and take resveratrol (anti-estradiol) with it.

i just wanted to ask you about pregnenalone
usually most men say it makes them sleepy and no other positive effects but on elder people who have adrenal fatigue pregnenalone gives good boost in hormonal system
so how old are you if its not a secret

I'm 30, but I went through a series of traumatic events a few years ago that may have burnt out my adrenals a bit. I've read that people with PTSD (and perhaps depression as well) tend to have significantly lower pregnenolone levels and benefit from supplementation.

another question:do you used to be a smoker before if not then it is possible to became dependent on nicotine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1939993/
 
..but it seems nicotine does help with testosterone level
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17163954
so i guess this is the reason it can give great relief on POIS

I never was a smoker. And yes, I know there is risk of addiction (although far less than there is with cigarette smoking). I cycle the nicotine, always taking at least a couple days off each week. It's a big dopamine booster, so it wouldn't surprise me if it has beneficial effects on testosterone as well.

[Muon]

Have you tried taking pregnenolone only and see what it does compared to the entire stack?

[CuriousCharacter]

Have you tried taking pregnenolone only and see what it does compared to the entire stack?

Not yet. That is one thing I would like to try. I recall Nanna1 mentioning that he tested pregnenolone as a one-item prepack and found it somewhat effective.

With that said, I may have gotten a bit too confident in the effectiveness of my existing stack. I've been experimenting with having O's every other day, which worked for a week, but now it's beginning to catch up with me. I'm experiencing very light POIS symptoms at the moment - pressure in my head, pain in cervical spine, some lethargy... 90% improvement, but the symptoms are noticeable today.

3g of nicotine is giving me some serious relief right now, but it's not unusual for me to experience a fleeting placebo effect for an hour or two during a POIS episode.

[Hopeoneday]

From all this suplements, wich suplement you feel helping you the most?

[Quantum]

Have you tried taking pregnenolone only and see what it does compared to the entire stack?

Not yet. That is one thing I would like to try. I recall Nanna1 mentioning that he tested pregnenolone as a one-item prepack and found it somewhat effective.

With that said, I may have gotten a bit too confident in the effectiveness of my existing stack. I've been experimenting with having O's every other day, which worked for a week, but now it's beginning to catch up with me. I'm experiencing very light POIS symptoms at the moment - pressure in my head, pain in cervical spine, some lethargy... 90% improvement, but the symptoms are noticeable today.

3g of nicotine is giving me some serious relief right now, but it's not unusual for me to experience a fleeting placebo effect for an hour or two during a POIS episode.

Hi Curious,

I see that the methods we use are only control methods - they do not cure POIS.  So, I experiment the same as you:  if I ejaculate too often, my POIS symptoms, at some point, will not be controlled anymore by my method.  For me, I never fo beyond more than one release per week ( this is also considering the fact that I am 54 now).   

Also, I wanted to let you know that I have added your name as reference member in my POIS Types Chart, because you have a very significant success for a few months, now.  I have put you in the same section than nanna1, since your stack and pre-pack are inspired by his methylation support method  ( see section 9 of the chart, at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 ).

[CuriousCharacter]

I see that the methods we use are only control methods - they do not cure POIS.  So, I experiment the same as you:  if I ejaculate too often, my POIS symptoms, at some point, will not be controlled anymore by my method.  For me, I never fo beyond more than one release per week ( this is also considering the fact that I am 54 now).   

Also, I wanted to let you know that I have added your name as reference member in my POIS Types Chart, because you have a very significant success for a few months, now.  I have put you in the same section than nanna1, since your stack and pre-pack are inspired by his methylation support method  ( see section 9 of the chart, at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 ).

Okay, sounds good, Quantum.

I've been keeping my O's to once a week and my symptoms have been fully in check.

I should add that I have subtracted the betaine, taurine, uridine and nicotine from my stack. Also vitamin D (I moved to a sunny beach town).

And I've added DHEA and kava. Kava is a massive help with the muscle tension and rigidity, and it increases dopamine and serotonin. It kind of feels like pot without the negative effects.

I'm also experimenting with cholinergics, as I've stopped using betaine and am nervous about straying too much from Nanna1's stack.

I've been feeling well enough to move out of state and start a new and demanding full-time job. There's no way I would've been able to do that a year ago.

Many thanks to Quantum, Nanna1, and everyone else in the forum that has helped me navigate this. Your input has been invaluable.

[CuriousCharacter]

Oh, and a note regarding diet (I saw that Quantum mentioned that my diet is ambiguous on his Chart of POIS Types):

I subscribe to a lowish-carb paleo diet, for the most part.

I'm fairly relaxed with it. Some days I'll eat potatoes or drink beer or cocktails. But I generally try to keep the foods paleo and the carbs relatively low and in-the-evening.

My impression is that I'm somewhat more inflamed when I stray from that diet, but I can keep it under control with anti-inflammatories (circumin and CBD).

I started a ketogenic diet a few years back because I had severe brain fog 100% of the time, and I accidentally realized that ketosis relieved the brain fog.

I think the keto diet wound up causing some mineral deficiencies and may have worsened the depression I was dealing with (insulin increases tryptophan), so I'm much more lax with the diet nowadays.

When it comes to lifestyle choices, I've found that pretty much any vagus nerve stimulator helps me. Cold showers, laying on an acupressure mat (especially on my sacrum), yoga, meditation, breathing exercises, massage, sunlight, days at the beach... I just don't feel as good if I don't make some time for this stuff.

Update: I should add that ketogenic dieting, supplementation of capryllic MCT oil and fasting (including multiple 2-3 day water fasts) DID seem to make me feel healthier for a while. I feel like I've outgrown hardcore keto-dieting and fasting at this point, as the benefits are less dramatic and the costs (mineral depletion and perhaps excessive load on adrenals) remain. But there was a period when I benefited dramatically from those practices, perhaps because they were helping heal gut issues.

[demografx]

...pretty much any vagus nerve stimulator helps me...

CuriousCharacter, did that idea come from our previous investigative work, or elsewhere?
Thanks.

[CuriousCharacter]

...pretty much any vagus nerve stimulator helps me...

CuriousCharacter, did that idea come from our previous investigative work, or elsewhere?
Thanks.

I read a selfhacked article on vagus nerve stimulators and realized that most of the items on the list were things I had already experimented with and found helpful. Then I went here and confirmed that vagus stimulation had been helpful to others.

[demografx]

Interesting. One of our Members should be posting soon about a 1-year summary of VNS results for self-administered POIS treatment.

[CuriousCharacter]

Interesting. One of our Members should be posting soon about a 1-year summary of VNS results for self-administered POIS treatment.

Very interesting. Any insights yet, or will we need to wait for the summary?

[demografx]

Let’s wait.

[Hopeoneday]

This is hell of a stack   
And working for him 

Man, what are you takeing?...
Man, i taked them all ...

[Warrior]

Lots of interesting supplements in your stack - so much to explore  . I too have had amazing success with SAM-e and Nanna1's methods. I will notify you of one feature in regards to the SAM-e that you may be overlooking:

SAM-e works for me, but only when it's balanced. Too little, and I get symptoms. Too much, and I get symptoms. The trick is to find the correct dosage that optimises SAM-e balance long-term. If you're over-methylated, niacin 50mg every 1-2 hours until you feel how it initially made you feel should do the trick (and of course slowing down or temporarily ceasing SAM-e supplementation until you need it again.)

I know this thread is old but OP is still active on the forum so it's worth initiating this discussion.

Edit: just realised OP has posted a previous 2021 update to their POIS and not sure if they're taking the above stack, but regardless, this info is beneficial to anyone who is testing SAM-e or has found success with SAM-e.