Author Topic: Solving POIS  (Read 3610 times)

Scrub

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Solving POIS
« on: October 04, 2018, 06:33:33 PM »
I'll be updating this post, but I want to share with you my top 3 theories of how I think we can solve POIS once and for all. If you want to participate or share something, experiences, ideas, whatever you want, feel free to do it.

So far, after reading and studying and trying a lot of things, supplements and drugs, I think POIS can be explained  in one of these ways:

-POIS is actually a MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome) expression.

-POIS could be explained through migraines by neurotransmitter dysregulation and vasodilation being the cause of POIS symptoms.

-POIS is caused by an acetylcholine rebound after getting its leveles too high during sexual arousal and then too low after ejaculation.

I'll be adding sources and personal experiences every now and then.

joelawerence

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 06:01:04 AM »
Keep going!
33 years old, POIS for around 12 years with increasing severity.
Major symptoms - Severe fatigue, back pain, unrefreshed even after 9+ hours sleep, pain behind eyes, very dry face, bald head with inflamed scalp, digestion issues and constipation. Very low testosterone and high glucose in blood tests

demografx

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 06:23:10 PM »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Scrub

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2018, 09:54:05 PM »
My POIS symptoms (lifetime):

-Neurologic/Psychiatric (mainly): Brain fog, short term memory dysfunction, difficulty with recalling words, anxiety, depression, anhedonia, mood swings, lack of concentration.
-Physical: Fatigue, tiredness, increased urination and increased hunger.


Current stack as 10/10/18 (daily intake):

-1g. Vitamin C (Local GNC)
-5 g. Creatine powder (Local supplement brand)
-36 mg. of Methylphenidate (I don't take it as a POIS treatment, it won't do anything good for your POIS, in fact, it can worsen anxiety during a POIS episode)
-200 mg of Resveratrol (Local supplement brand)
 -Omega 4x Black Onyx (Muscletech brand)
-5 mg. of Desloratadine.

List of things I've experimented with and their effect on my POIS:

-Tobacco: After orgasm, seems to be efficient and diminsh POIS.
-Taurine: Weaker POIS but doesn't prevent it or fix it. Max dosage I've tried is 1g. every day.
-B Complex vitamins: Didn't feel any significant improvement while taking them.
-Gluten free diet: No effect at all.
-Magnesium: Didn't feel any significant improvement while taking it. However, I'd be willing to try a higher dosage.
-Vitamin D: Didn't feel any significant improvement while taking it.
-Omegas: Didn't feel any significant improvement while taking them.
-Glutamic Acid: No effect at all.
-Glutamine: No effect at all.
-Alcohol (ethanol): The only thing that has been able to prevent and fix POIS entirely. If I'm drunk, I can ejaculate as much as I want and next day, I'll have just a hangover but no POIS at all. If I'm under POIS and get drunk, next day i'll be POIS free.
-L Theanine: Still not sure, if taken after orgasm, seems to help on POIS recovery.
-Gabapentin: No, just no. I took it after ejaculation and didn't worked at all.
-5-HTP: Didn't worked at all.
-Ginkgo Biloba: No effect at all.
-Sugar free, low histamine and MSG diet: No effect at all.
-Memantine: I loved it, but didn't do anything for my POIS.
-Creatine: Seems to improve recovery.
-Vitamin C: Still trying, however, seems to help with recovery.
-Pyridostigmine: I felt POIS hitting 90% less while on it. 
-Resveratrol: Still trying, however, seems to help with recovery
.
-Diphenydramine: Took it after orgasm, didn't worked and make me feel drowzzy and fatigued. Would be willing to try before orgasm to see if there'e a difference.
-Desloratadine: Seems to prevent POIS from hitting too hard.
-Zinc: Seems to improve recovery.
-Diosmin and Hesperidin: Took it after ejaculation and helped a lot with recovery preventing fatigue the next day.



Scrub

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 12:11:25 AM »
Things I want to try with (because after research, I'm sure I can solve POIS with one of these):

-Galantamine: It's too damn expensive here. Increases ACh by inhibiting Acetylcholinesterase.
-Donepezil: It's cheaper than galantamine and I can buy it without a prescription. Potential side effects scares me tho. Increases ACh by inhibiting Acetylcholinesterase.
-Quercetin: Antioxidant and antiinflammatiory properties, seems like a very interesting supplement, could improve my overall health. Also a Mast Cell Stabilizer. Can't find it here.
-Huperzine: Increases ACh by inhibiting Acetylcholinesterase. NMDAR antagonist also. Expensive as hell and difficult to get.
-Curcumin: Antioxidant and antiinflammatory agent. It's cheap and available everywhere.
-Agmatine: Anti Glutamate activity by being an NMDAR antagonist. Not so sure how should I use it. Hard to find it here.
-Triptans: Inhibits inflammation and causes vasoconstricition. Serotonin agonists I think. I'll try it after orgasm.
-Ergotamine: Vasoconstriction properties thus a dopamine, serotonin and nore agonist. I'll try it after orgasm.
-Ketotifen: H1 receptor blocker and a Mast Cell Stabilizer.

Nas

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 03:48:59 AM »
Quote
-Tobacco: After orgasm, seems to be efficient and diminsh POIS.

Demn, I just had a cigarette today and it caused me POIS; like, not only worsened it, I felt like it caused it.

Vandemolen

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 07:12:45 AM »
You should ask your doctor for a bloodtest. Check your vitamin D, B12, iron. Maybe Zinc and megnesium. Most people have a low vitamin D level. Even it doesn’t help you against POIS it will help improve your general health.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Hopeoneday

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 08:48:09 AM »
Quote
-Tobacco: After orgasm, seems to be efficient and diminsh POIS.

Demn, I just had a cigarette today and it caused me POIS; like, not only worsened it, I felt like it caused it.

Heh, nas the same like me. like there is some "patogen" or polutant stored in sperm and body react crazy on it, and similar "patogen" could be in cigarete smouke.
The odher option coiuld be that we me you and some odhers hawe enzayme mutation wich brake down lung tisue etc(mentioned lately ).

Dr-pois.

Quantum

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 10:48:50 AM »
My POIS symptoms (lifetime):

-Neurologic/Psychiatric (mainly): Brain fog, short term memory dysfunction, difficulty with recalling words, anxiety, depression, anhedonia, mood swings, lack of concentration.
-Physical: Fatigue, tiredness, increased urination and increased hunger.


Current stack as 10/10/18 (daily intake):

-1g. Vitamin C (Local GNC)
-5 g. Creatine powder (Local supplement brand)
-36 mg. of Methylphenidate (I don't take it as a POIS treatment, it won't do anything good for your POIS, in fact, it can worsen anxiety during a POIS episode)
-200 mg of Resveratrol (Local supplement brand)
 -Omega 4x Black Onyx (Muscletech brand)
-5 mg. of Desloratadine.

List of things I've experimented with and their effect on my POIS:

-Tobacco: After orgasm, seems to be efficient and diminsh POIS.
-Taurine: Weaker POIS but doesn't prevent it or fix it. Max dosage I've tried is 1g. every day.
-B Complex vitamins: Didn't feel any significant improvement while taking them.
-Gluten free diet: No effect at all.
-Magnesium: Didn't feel any significant improvement while taking it. However, I'd be willing to try a higher dosage.
-Vitamin D: Didn't feel any significant improvement while taking it.
-Omegas: Didn't feel any significant improvement while taking them.
-Glutamic Acid: No effect at all.
-Glutamine: No effect at all.
-Alcohol (ethanol): The only thing that has been able to prevent and fix POIS entirely. If I'm drunk, I can ejaculate as much as I want and next day, I'll have just a hangover but no POIS at all. If I'm under POIS and get drunk, next day i'll be POIS free.
-L Theanine: Still not sure, if taken after orgasm, seems to help on POIS recovery.
-Gabapentin: No, just no. I took it after ejaculation and didn't worked at all.
-5-HTP: Didn't worked at all.
-Ginkgo Biloba: No effect at all.
-Sugar free, low histamine and MSG diet: No effect at all.
-Memantine: I loved it, but didn't do anything for my POIS.
-Creatine: Seems to improve recovery.
-Vitamin C: Still trying, however, seems to help with recovery.
-Pyridostigmine: I felt POIS hitting 90% less while on it. 
-Resveratrol: Still trying, however, seems to help with recovery
.
-Diphenydramine: Took it after orgasm, didn't worked and make me feel drowzzy and fatigued. Would be willing to try before orgasm to see if there'e a difference.
-Desloratadine: Seems to prevent POIS from hitting too hard.
-Zinc: Seems to improve recovery.
-Diosmin and Hesperidin: Took it after ejaculation and helped a lot with recovery preventing fatigue the next day.


Hi Scrub,

You did a lot of valuable testing.  From what you shared, I think you could build a good pre-pack for yourself, with all those supplements you know are helping you recover from POIS or help to prevent it hitting you too hard.  Like desloratadine, resveratol, Diosmin and Hesperidin, creatine, and so on.  My experience is that I get excellent results when grouping together what helps me for POIS, and taking it 60 to 20 minutes before release.   No one of the supplements in my stack is efficient enough to be taken alone, but all added together, I get a very high and reliable level of relief .  I do not mind taking 11 different supplement pills and tablets in a one-shot pre-pack, because this is what prevent POIS misery from stealing me 2 to 3 days of my life.
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Scrub

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 04:17:57 PM »
Stack update and POIS situation:

Daily intake:

-5mg. Memantine
-1g. Vit C
-400UI Vit E
-5g. Creatine powder (Local supplement brand)
-36 mg. of Methylphenidate (I don't take it as a POIS treatment, it won't do anything good for your POIS, in fact, it can worsen anxiety during a POIS episode)
-200 mg of Resveratrol (Local supplement brand)
-Omega 4x Black Onyx (Muscletech brand)

Removed Desloratadine and added Vitamin E. POIS is weaker week after week. Seems like I'm going in the right direction.

joelawerence

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2018, 07:14:09 AM »
I am especially interested in this: -Pyridostigmine: I felt POIS hitting 90% less while on it. 

When did you take it and were there any other side effects because of this? Why are you not continuing to use this if it is so effective?
33 years old, POIS for around 12 years with increasing severity.
Major symptoms - Severe fatigue, back pain, unrefreshed even after 9+ hours sleep, pain behind eyes, very dry face, bald head with inflamed scalp, digestion issues and constipation. Very low testosterone and high glucose in blood tests

Scrub

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2018, 10:39:13 AM »
I am especially interested in this: -Pyridostigmine: I felt POIS hitting 90% less while on it. 

When did you take it and were there any other side effects because of this? Why are you not continuing to use this if it is so effective?

Hi, I took a 160mg. tablet 45, 60 min. before release, symptoms were diminished, let's say, by 90%. I did not experienced any side effects while taking it. Why did it worked? Couldn't tell you, I'm pretty much sure no one knows it, I asked an MD and he didn't knew why.

Quote
Why are you not continuing to use this if it is so effective?

It's an AChEI with a low half life (3 or 4 hrs) with no known benefits other than being used to treat Myastenia Gravis. I'd prefer to try with another AChEI like Donepezil or Galantamine for POIS and to improve memory and cognition.

Scrub

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2018, 11:43:42 AM »
Starting to seriously consider that POIS is directly related to nitric oxide...

b_jim

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2018, 02:23:46 PM »
But NO is supposed to be a "good thing"
The extra realease of NO after ejaculation is supposed to be good for blood stream, less inflammation, good mood...
How to explain a deficit ?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 02:26:42 PM by b_jim »
Taurine = Anti-Pois
Suffering from lyme disease

Scrub

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2018, 05:25:20 PM »
Maybe I'm losing it, I've become too desperate and too obsessed with solving POIS to help me and to help you all, that maybe I'm taking a lot of non sense aproaches.

What is Nitric Oxide?

Nitric oxide, known as an endothelium-derived relaxing factor (EDRF), is biosynthesized endogenously from L-arginine, oxygen, and NADPH by various nitric oxide synthase (NOS) enzymes. Reduction of inorganic nitrate may also serve to make nitric oxide. The endothelium (inner lining) of blood vessels uses nitric oxide to signal the surrounding smooth muscle to relax, thus resulting in vasodilation and increasing blood flow. Nitric oxide is highly reactive (having a lifetime of a few seconds), yet diffuses freely across membranes. These attributes make nitric oxide ideal for a transient paracrine (between adjacent cells) and autocrine (within a single cell) signaling molecule.

NO is also a neurotransmitter and has been associated with neuronal activity and various functions such as avoidance learning, NO is implicated in pathophysiologic states as diverse as septic shock, hypertension, stroke, and neurodegenerative diseases.

Vasodilation

Nitric oxide dilates blood vessels, raising blood supply and lowering blood pressure.[45] Conversely, it helps protect tissues from damage due to low blood supply.[45] Also a neurotransmitter, nitric oxide acts in the nitrergic neurons active on smooth muscle, abundant in the gastrointestinal tract and erectile tissue. Nitric oxide (NO) contributes to vessel homeostasis by inhibiting vascular smooth muscle contraction and growth, platelet aggregation, and leukocyte adhesion to the endothelium.

As I mentioned before, I think POIS involves blood flow issues.

Pathology

 Diminished supply of nitric oxide can lead to vascular damage, such as endothelial dysfunction and vascular inflammation.

Maybe after orgasm, we have a condition in which we can't get a normal NO supply.

Acetylcholine

Acetylcholine (Ach) stimulates endothelial cells (ECs) to produce the vasodilating gasotransmitter, nitric oxide (NO)

Remember that a lot of POIS affected people (including me), have some sucess with Ach precursors or inhibitors?

Not being able to produce NO means that important vasodilation ceases, and blood flow will be poor.

Did a lot of copy/paste here tho.










swell

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2018, 07:50:53 PM »
Dont loose it Scrub, but dont get too excited.  I have been there.  I personally think POIS is blood circulation related and NO has a role in it (but nanna1's herpes/virus theory to me is plausible too).   It seems to be that I have tried every supplement that exists on this planet and I am very pessimistic if ever POIS will be solved.   The systemic body wide changes that POIS causes on me is mind boggling, I dont think they could be solved by anything.  I cant even tell anyone except this forum, POIS is so f'ing crazy.

I think now we need to take a look on a second track.  Enough time has been spent on trying to cure and manage POIS post ejaculation.   How about now moving the focus, that if there is something (non-permanent) that could stop our need to do ejaculation.  I am desperate for such a thing.  The world enjoys sex, I cant find a one person that does not enjoy it sex.  But I dread the time when I cannot stop it and succumb to it. 
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

Nas

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2018, 08:28:50 PM »
Maybe I'm losing it, I've become too desperate and too obsessed with solving POIS to help me and to help you all, that maybe I'm taking a lot of non sense aproaches.

What is Nitric Oxide?

Nitric oxide, known as an endothelium-derived relaxing factor (EDRF), is biosynthesized endogenously from L-arginine, oxygen, and NADPH by various nitric oxide synthase (NOS) enzymes. Reduction of inorganic nitrate may also serve to make nitric oxide. The endothelium (inner lining) of blood vessels uses nitric oxide to signal the surrounding smooth muscle to relax, thus resulting in vasodilation and increasing blood flow. Nitric oxide is highly reactive (having a lifetime of a few seconds), yet diffuses freely across membranes. These attributes make nitric oxide ideal for a transient paracrine (between adjacent cells) and autocrine (within a single cell) signaling molecule.

NO is also a neurotransmitter and has been associated with neuronal activity and various functions such as avoidance learning, NO is implicated in pathophysiologic states as diverse as septic shock, hypertension, stroke, and neurodegenerative diseases.

Vasodilation

Nitric oxide dilates blood vessels, raising blood supply and lowering blood pressure.[45] Conversely, it helps protect tissues from damage due to low blood supply.[45] Also a neurotransmitter, nitric oxide acts in the nitrergic neurons active on smooth muscle, abundant in the gastrointestinal tract and erectile tissue. Nitric oxide (NO) contributes to vessel homeostasis by inhibiting vascular smooth muscle contraction and growth, platelet aggregation, and leukocyte adhesion to the endothelium.

As I mentioned before, I think POIS involves blood flow issues.

Pathology

 Diminished supply of nitric oxide can lead to vascular damage, such as endothelial dysfunction and vascular inflammation.

Maybe after orgasm, we have a condition in which we can't get a normal NO supply.

Acetylcholine

Acetylcholine (Ach) stimulates endothelial cells (ECs) to produce the vasodilating gasotransmitter, nitric oxide (NO)

Remember that a lot of POIS affected people (including me), have some sucess with Ach precursors or inhibitors?

Not being able to produce NO means that important vasodilation ceases, and blood flow will be poor.

Did a lot of copy/paste here tho.

Can NO be tested?

Hopeoneday

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2018, 05:55:11 PM »
Scurb, it is big posibility that pois induced big production of PEROXYNITRITE
NITRIC OXIDE, SUPEROXIDE, AND PEROXYNITRITE: THE GOOD, THE BAD,
AND THE UGLY
Dr-pois.

Scrub

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2018, 10:01:06 PM »
Maybe I'm losing it, I've become too desperate and too obsessed with solving POIS to help me and to help you all, that maybe I'm taking a lot of non sense aproaches.

What is Nitric Oxide?

Nitric oxide, known as an endothelium-derived relaxing factor (EDRF), is biosynthesized endogenously from L-arginine, oxygen, and NADPH by various nitric oxide synthase (NOS) enzymes. Reduction of inorganic nitrate may also serve to make nitric oxide. The endothelium (inner lining) of blood vessels uses nitric oxide to signal the surrounding smooth muscle to relax, thus resulting in vasodilation and increasing blood flow. Nitric oxide is highly reactive (having a lifetime of a few seconds), yet diffuses freely across membranes. These attributes make nitric oxide ideal for a transient paracrine (between adjacent cells) and autocrine (within a single cell) signaling molecule.

NO is also a neurotransmitter and has been associated with neuronal activity and various functions such as avoidance learning, NO is implicated in pathophysiologic states as diverse as septic shock, hypertension, stroke, and neurodegenerative diseases.

Vasodilation

Nitric oxide dilates blood vessels, raising blood supply and lowering blood pressure.[45] Conversely, it helps protect tissues from damage due to low blood supply.[45] Also a neurotransmitter, nitric oxide acts in the nitrergic neurons active on smooth muscle, abundant in the gastrointestinal tract and erectile tissue. Nitric oxide (NO) contributes to vessel homeostasis by inhibiting vascular smooth muscle contraction and growth, platelet aggregation, and leukocyte adhesion to the endothelium.

As I mentioned before, I think POIS involves blood flow issues.

Pathology

 Diminished supply of nitric oxide can lead to vascular damage, such as endothelial dysfunction and vascular inflammation.

Maybe after orgasm, we have a condition in which we can't get a normal NO supply.

Acetylcholine

Acetylcholine (Ach) stimulates endothelial cells (ECs) to produce the vasodilating gasotransmitter, nitric oxide (NO)

Remember that a lot of POIS affected people (including me), have some sucess with Ach precursors or inhibitors?

Not being able to produce NO means that important vasodilation ceases, and blood flow will be poor.

Did a lot of copy/paste here tho.

Can NO be tested?

No idea, tbh.

Scurb, it is big posibility that pois induced big production of PEROXYNITRITE
NITRIC OXIDE, SUPEROXIDE, AND PEROXYNITRITE: THE GOOD, THE BAD,
AND THE UGLY

I'll look into it.

Yesterday, I faped just to try out with one side of my NO theory, after release, took 2g. of L-arginine, then, before bed another 1g. tablet. Nothing actually changed, but today, I woke up with POIS as usual, then took 2g. again and all day I've been with a fking annoying headache.

What I'm thinking, is that NO excess or dysregulation is the POIS root. I'll share a lot in the next post. 

b_jim

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Re: Solving POIS
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2018, 03:09:11 AM »
I made some tests with L-arginine (500 or 1000mg) without success...
Maybe should I try again.
Taurine = Anti-Pois
Suffering from lyme disease