Author Topic: Developed POIS after antibiotic use  (Read 7390 times)

Vandemolen

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #195 on: April 03, 2019, 05:46:59 AM »
Simon, you are focussed on the gut. But did you know that antibiotics can also affect the pancreas, the spleen and the liver? The spleen plays in important role in our immune system. I do not know how to improve the state of the spleen.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 08:02:09 AM by Vandemolen »
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #196 on: April 03, 2019, 02:10:36 PM »
Simon, you are focussed on the gut. But did you know that antibiotics can also affect the pancreas, the spleen and the liver? The spleen plays in important role in our immune system. I do not know how to improve the state of the spleen.

There's not much I can do about damage to those organs. There are ways to fix the gut though so I'd rather focus on something positive rather than incurable organ damage :/

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #197 on: April 03, 2019, 02:29:35 PM »
I'm pursuing the idea of POIS being caused by LPS-induced inflammation.

As I understand it, LPS (Lipopolysaccharides) are molecules produced by bacteria in the gut and they usually don't cause issues as long as they are confined to the gut. If the gut lining is damaged, the LPS get into the bloodstream and travel around the body wreaking havoc.

In order to save time, I am often taking more than one supplement so it gets difficult to match any improvements with a particular supplement. I think L-Arginine has given me gradual improvements, it feels like it rebuilds the mucosal lining of the gut. I also just started testing Zinc Citrate and HMB (Beta-Hydroxy-Beta-Methylbutyrate) for their gut repair properties. I may also get some Zinc Carnosine in future.

HMB is a sports supplement used to prevent the breakdown of muscle. It can reduce the pain levels after lifting weights and reduce recovery times. It is sometimes given to HIV and cancer patients who have muscle wasting. HMB is normally produced by the body in small quantities from the amino acid L-Leucine. It has been shown to increase the height of small intestinal villi.

In summary, I am currently looking to build a protocol for repairing each aspect the intestinal lining including the mucosa and villi.

Since my last update, I have tried HMB and it seemed to give me knee pain so I have discontinued it.

A lot of my symptoms seem like vitamin A deficiency such as severe dry eyes, immune dysfunction, POIS, skin problems. I have been eating sweet potatoes every day and my Beta-Carotene blood levels are extremely high, yet I still feel like I am lacking vitamin A.

I did some research and beta carotene is converted into retinal in the small intestine using a particular gut enzyme. I have been suspecting for some time that I have damage to my gut lining where these enzymes are produced since I am also severely lactose intolerant.

I started taking a cheap vitamin A supplement that contained fish oil and retinyl palmitate, I had a bad reaction to this and I suspect it was the fish oils. I've just ordered another vitamin A supplement in the form of Retinol tablets. It doesn't contain fish oils or the less efficient forms of vitamin A like Retinyl Palmitate or Retinyl Acetate.

Whatever the mechanism of POIS, I believe the end product is one or more vitamin, mineral and amino acid deficiencies that make up semen or sperm. I'm currently focusing on finding which ones I am missing. For those interested in taking vitamin A, I've read that zinc is needed as a cofactor. As always, take any supplements at your own risk, vitamin A can cause toxicity.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #198 on: April 05, 2019, 12:28:25 PM »
I'm currently taking high doses of Retinol (active form of vitamin A) with vitamin D3 & K2 MK-7. I have high hopes for this combination, I'm taking them in tablet form as the softgels often contain fish oils that trigger an immune response.

Here's a nice article explaining the many functions of active vitamin A (Retinol):
https://selfhacked.com/blog/importance-real-vitamin-retinol/

I am investigating the possibility that I don't convert Beta Carotene into active vitamin A very well. The conversion is handled by an enzyme in the small intestine.

Vandemolen

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #199 on: April 05, 2019, 06:39:58 PM »
I am sure that my current POIS like period is because of antibiotics. I used 3 kinds of antibiotics in 5 weeks. Since then I am sick. I took Fluconazol for a month but that did not help. I also stopped with eating sugar. I used a lot of prebiotics and probiotics. But I think before reparing my gut I have to get rid of a parasite. But I do not know which one. I hope that an internist can help me.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #200 on: April 06, 2019, 09:46:12 AM »
I am sure that my current POIS like period is because of antibiotics. I used 3 kinds of antibiotics in 5 weeks. Since then I am sick. I took Fluconazol for a month but that did not help. I also stopped with eating sugar. I used a lot of prebiotics and probiotics. But I think before reparing my gut I have to get rid of a parasite. But I do not know which one. I hope that an internist can help me.

I get the POIS symptoms just from eating certain foods. There are certain vitamins that are needed for immune function, I'm currently taking Vitamin A (in active Retinol form) tablets, Vitamin D3/K2 MK-7 tablets, Gamma E Mixed Tocopherol Complex (vitamin E), Zinc Citrate, Iron and a Multi-Vitamin. So basically, I have all 4 fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E & K), I have Zinc and Iron which are cofactors and then a multivitamin for any remaining missing nutrients.

I took Fluconazole, Canesten, Antibiotics, Prebiotics and Probiotics over the years and none of them have brought any significant improvement. I did take a regimen of vitamins and minerals with L-Arginine a couple years back and I think that gave me slow improvements, too slow for me to figure it out at the time. I am restarting this vitamin/mineral protocol and I'll try and be a bit more patient and attentive this time.

If you're going to take any fat-soluble vitamins, I think it is best to get all 4 of them at once and consider the cofactors. Vitamin A is a tricky vitamin because some people cannot convert Beta-Carotene into Retinol, therefore I am taking the active form of Vitamin A.

Avoid fish oils at all costs, these are found in cheap vitamins like Vitamin A softgels and they worsen gut issues.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #201 on: April 09, 2019, 11:02:48 AM »
I am sure that my current POIS like period is because of antibiotics. I used 3 kinds of antibiotics in 5 weeks. Since then I am sick. I took Fluconazol for a month but that did not help. I also stopped with eating sugar. I used a lot of prebiotics and probiotics. But I think before reparing my gut I have to get rid of a parasite. But I do not know which one. I hope that an internist can help me.

I have a feeling that all of these antibiotics and other pharmaceuticals worsen chronic infections. We hear a lot about how antibiotics cause c. difficile to take over the gut in some people, I think the same has happened to me but the bacteria is different.

When I took Metronidazole, my mouth started burning for months afterwards and my face would break out in sores that looked like impetigo. I started a regimen of vitamins, minerals and garlic pills which I now think may have helped. I stopped the regimen after 30 days as I don't like taking so many supplements due to the risk of kidney and liver damage. After I stopped, I think the burning in my mouth was possibly better but then I broke out in itchy sores on my scalp which a dermatologist diagnosed as scalp folliculitis and she put me on Lymecycline antibiotics which I took for over 6 months as it's a mild antibiotic. The scalp folliculitis improved after a number of months on Lymecycline and I was eventually taken off it. I then developed white pustules on my face that would come and go, they looked exactly like the kind of spots that staph aureus bacteria cause.

After taking the Ciprofloxacin, I developed crazy symptoms so perhaps the bacteria then spread everywhere in my body or perhaps they just took over my gut and caused my immune system to malfunction. Either way, I have so many different symptoms now in every part of my body.

I said in my last post that I am resurrecting the regimen that I took to get over the Metronidazole reaction. I now wonder if Garlic pills were the reason for improving since I now know that garlic is used to treat scalp folliculitis and staph aureus. I was originally taking a supplement called "Linden's Odourless Super Garlic" which contains 6000mg of garlic equivalent, I only took 1 or 2 of these softgels capsules a day for a month.

Now, I have started taking 1 Linden's Super Garlic softgel with 1 "Allicin Max" capsule. I started these 2 garlic supplements yesterday and I had quite a difficult night with a faster heartbeat and restlessness which I hope is die-off. In the morning, my heartbeat was fine again so I'm going to continue for now. I took my garlic pills today and had a sharp pain in my scalp which could be more bacteria being killed.

I'll see how this garlic goes, too often things start out well and then end up being disappointing. If anyone wants to try garlic supplements, beware that Allicin Max has a strong garlic odour after ingesting so maybe you'd want the odourless softgels if you are going to be around people, I'm taking both for now.

Vandemolen

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #202 on: April 10, 2019, 08:40:43 AM »
‘Recurrent antibiotic exposure is associated with increased risk for depression and anxiety but not for psychosis.’

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26580313
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #203 on: April 16, 2019, 12:19:41 PM »
I'm taking a break from vitamins and supplements, if they are doing anything positive then it's too gradual to notice. I'm currently testing Roquefort cheese, I have found a research article that suggests this French blue cheese (from sheep's milk) inhibits LPS (Lipopolysaccharides) inflammation. LPS is simply toxins produced by bacteria in the body (mostly the gut) that get into the bloodstream and cause havoc around the body:

Quote
Roquefort Cheese Proteins Inhibit Chlamydia pneumoniae Propagation and LPS-Induced Leukocyte Migration

Abstract
Inflammation in atherosclerosis, which could be associated with some subclinical infections such as C. pneumoniae, is one of the key factors responsible for the development of clinical complications of this disease. We report that a proprietary protein extract isolated from Roquefort cheese inhibits the propagation of C. pneumoniae in a human HL cell line in a dose-dependent manner, as revealed by the immunofluorescence analysis. These changes were accompanied by a significant reduction in the infective progeny formation over the protein extract range of 0.12–0.5??g/mL. Moreover, short term feeding of mice with Roquefort cheese (twice, 10?mg per mouse with an interval of 24 hours) led to the inhibition of the migration of peritoneal leukocytes caused by intraperitoneal injection of E. coli lipopolysaccharide. These changes were complemented by a reduction in neutrophil count and a relative increase in peritoneal macrophages, suggesting that ingestion of Roquefort could promote regenerative processes at the site of inflammation. The ability of this protein to inhibit propagation of Chlamydia infection, as well as the anti-inflammatory and proregenerative effects of Roquefort itself, may contribute to the low prevalence of cardiovascular mortality in France where consumption of fungal fermented cheeses is the highest in the world.



Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3655667/

« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 12:23:27 PM by Simon66 »

demografx

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #204 on: April 16, 2019, 12:31:50 PM »
Thanks, Simon.
10 years of major POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks associated with it.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #205 on: April 16, 2019, 12:48:54 PM »
Thanks, Simon.

You're welcome.

One quote from that research article on Roquefort cheese really stands out to me:

Quote
"There are multiple reports regarding identification of C. pneumoniae in the tissues of the cardiovascular system, joints, brain, and meninges"

A lot of POIS sufferers are chasing viruses as a potential cause of these systemic issues we have. It looks like there are chronic bacterial infections that settle in all parts of the body, Roquefort appears to be useful against C. Pneumoniae. The article also mentions that heart diseases are very low in areas of France where this cheese is popular.

For people in the USA, unfortunately this cheese is banned by the FDA due to the bacterial counts being too high, it's a very strong blue cheese. It seems to be sold on Ebay but whether it would get past customs is another question.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 12:51:48 PM by Simon66 »

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #206 on: April 16, 2019, 01:25:10 PM »
Looking back at my health history, a C. Pneumoniae infection would make sense for these reasons:

- I used to have chronic chest infections as a child (aged 4-7) during winter months, I was given amoxicillin in the form of a banana-flavoured liquid every year for a few years. My family then moved abroad to a country on the equator when I was around 7 years old and I didn't get sick any more due to the tropical climate. Aged 9, I came back to visit the UK during the school holidays and experienced pain when breathing in and out, my mother took me to a doctor who listened with a stethoscope and then suggested it was just stress though I wasn't stressed about anything and was actually enjoying my holiday although it was quite cold relative to the tropical country I was living in abroad. My family moved back to the UK a few years later and my health again started going downhill again.

- When I took Metronidazole a couple years back, I remember in the months after that I was having a really sharp stabbing pain in my right lung and also in my brain. The quote in my last post mentions that this C. Pneumoniae bacteria can invade the brain and its meningeal membranes. Pneumonia is well-known as a lung infection.

So, this is another promising avenue with some good circumstantial evidence pointing in its direction. Perhaps antibiotics allow C. Pneumoniae infections take over the body just like C. Difficile does.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 01:48:55 PM by Simon66 »

Hopeoneday

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #207 on: April 16, 2019, 02:00:25 PM »
At my age 12-13, after tick bite, i did got severe lung infection, pneumonia on both wings because of doctors misdiagnose. I lay sick 3-4 moonth in bed taking antibiotics, since then i was sick more ofen, since then my health has never been the same.
I thing taht root couse of my pois is from there, bad genetics from mother side,
bad imunity.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 02:03:25 PM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

Nas

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #208 on: April 16, 2019, 02:13:44 PM »
At my age 12-13, after tick bite, i did got severe lung infection, pneumonia on both wings because of doctors misdiagnose. I lay sick 3-4 moonth in bed taking antibiotics, since then i was sick more ofen, since then my health has never been the same.
I thing taht root couse of my pois is from there, bad genetics from mother side,
bad imunity.
Auto-immune diseases are theorized to start from an infection causing the immune system to mis-characterize our own tissue as that same infection. Maybe that's where our journey with POIS starts. 

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #209 on: April 19, 2019, 12:40:18 PM »
I'm currently looking at supplementing Vitamin D at doses of 5000IU and above. I'll be taking Vitamins A and K1/K2 as cofactors.

Here's a research article about the function of vitamin D in maintaining the gut balance. Perhaps in some cases, POIS is a depletion of vitamin D which unbalances the gut and causes metabolic chaos including malabsorption of vitamins. People interested in Vitamin D may like to read about the "Coimbra Protocol" which is being used to treat Multiple Sclerosis.

Quote
Vitamin D Signaling through Induction of Paneth Cell Defensins Maintains Gut Microbiota and Improves Metabolic Disorders and Hepatic Steatosis in Animal Models

Abstract
Metabolic syndrome (MetS), characterized as obesity, insulin resistance, and non-alcoholic fatty liver diseases (NAFLD), is associated with vitamin D insufficiency/deficiency in epidemiological studies, while the underlying mechanism is poorly addressed. On the other hand, disorder of gut microbiota, namely dysbiosis, is known to cause MetS and NAFLD. It is also known that systemic inflammation blocks insulin signaling pathways, leading to insulin resistance and glucose intolerance, which are the driving force for hepatic steatosis. Vitamin D receptor (VDR) is highly expressed in the ileum of the small intestine, which prompted us to test a hypothesis that vitamin D signaling may determine the enterotype of gut microbiota through regulating the intestinal interface. Here, we demonstrate that high-fat-diet feeding (HFD) is necessary but not sufficient, while additional vitamin D deficiency (VDD) as a second hit is needed, to induce robust insulin resistance and fatty liver. Under the two hits (HFD+VDD), the Paneth cell-specific alpha-defensins including ?-defensin 5 (DEFA5), MMP7 which activates the pro-defensins, as well as tight junction genes, and MUC2 are all suppressed in the ileum, resulting in mucosal collapse, increased gut permeability, dysbiosis, endotoxemia, systemic inflammation which underlie insulin resistance and hepatic steatosis. Moreover, under the vitamin D deficient high fat feeding (HFD+VDD), Helicobacter hepaticus, a known murine hepatic-pathogen, is substantially amplified in the ileum, while Akkermansia muciniphila, a beneficial symbiotic, is diminished. Likewise, the VD receptor (VDR) knockout mice exhibit similar phenotypes, showing down regulation of alpha-defensins and MMP7 in the ileum, increased Helicobacter hepaticus and suppressed Akkermansia muciniphila. Remarkably, oral administration of DEFA5 restored eubiosys, showing suppression of Helicobacter hepaticus and increase of Akkermansia muciniphila in association with resolving metabolic disorders and fatty liver in the HFD+VDD mice. An in vitro analysis showed that DEFA5 peptide could directly suppress Helicobacter hepaticus. Thus, the results of this study reveal critical roles of a vitamin D/VDR axis in optimal expression of defensins and tight junction genes in support of intestinal integrity and eubiosis to suppress NAFLD and metabolic disorders.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5108805/