Author Topic: Developed POIS after antibiotic use  (Read 47078 times)

demografx

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2018, 04:53:25 PM »
i don't know what we can think about candida albicans. I had made some searchs on this ten years ago without scientific evidence.
Now, some serious sources seem to think this probelm is real and common.

But whatever i think, the gut microbiota is an absolute key factor of a lot of disease.
I'm always convinced that my Pois is a dopamine problem and 50% of dopamine is built in gut...
Science and doctors recognize candida in the mouth and in the vagina/penis. The only thing they do not recognize is systemic candida and leaky gut.

I think we need to be very careful with “candida conclusions”. There is still a great deal of misunderstanding, confusion, mystery, skepticism and  doubt about the diagnosis.

b_jim, thank you for sharing your historical view about candida albicans.


« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 04:56:29 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Vandemolen

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #81 on: December 26, 2018, 12:21:04 PM »
But whatever i think, the gut microbiota is an absolute key factor of a lot of disease.
I'm always convinced that my Pois is a dopamine problem and 50% of dopamine is built in gut...
A Monoamine oxidases (MAO) dysfunction plays a key factor in dopamine and other neurotransmitters. It also plays a role in urticaria.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Vandemolen

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #82 on: December 26, 2018, 03:56:58 PM »
Kefir also has milk proteins that can trigger allergies. I am unable to tolerate any fermented food or drinks.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to such research, we all have different gut bacteria. Hives could be caused by different types of dysbiosis. I think it's best to just buy different probiotics and see which one works.
I stopped with kefir because it raises histamine. Also these probiotics raise histamine:
Lactobacillus bulgaricus
Lactobacillus casei
S. thermophilus
Lactobacillus delbrueckii
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #83 on: December 28, 2018, 12:26:05 PM »
Personally, I think Candida is used too often these days, like a catch-all term for any imbalance in the body. Another boogeyman is mast cell activation which is often blamed for histamine problems. The common issue is probably general gut dysbiosis.

There is a company called Openbiome that are currently selling FMT (Faecal Microbiota Transplant) capsules to treat recurrent CDiff infections in the USA. When these FMT capsules are offered to everyone, we'll hopefully see the end of many metabolic diseases such as POIS. Keep an eye open for such treatments, current FMT clinics are still using enema FMT delivery which won't fix any issues with the small intestine. I think the small intestine is the source of most of our POIS problems and I think a lot of us have vitamin and nutrient deficiencies due to malabsorption/dysbiosis.

I have a lot of symptoms that feel like B12 deficiency such as burning legs, tinnitus, blurry vision & joint pain. I've just bought Jarrow 5000mcg sublingual B12 lozenges to see if I can absorb enough B12 through my mouth lining. Oral B12 is notoriously difficult to process for some people either because of autoimmune disease or dysbiosis, so I may have to look at self-injecting B12.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2018, 01:42:37 PM »
I don't think dysbiosis is the core problem if that is present. Sympathetic overactivity inhibits gut motility leading to dysbiosis and absorption problems. This is also related to parameters like Ang II, ROS, Aldosteron etc. Your aldosterone is elevated as well and I suspect that one might be more important than people think it is and could give a clue about how the sympathetic nervous system is functioning. With other words if this is the case and there is a dysbiosis present due to a dysfunction of the SNS/PSNS then both should be treated at the same time. You have mentioned that elevated aldosterone might be the stress response from the gut dysbiosis but it might be the other way around.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2018, 02:14:56 PM »
I don't think dysbiosis is the core problem if that is present. Sympathetic overactivity inhibits gut motility leading to dysbiosis and absorption problems. This is also related to parameters like Ang II, ROS, Aldosteron etc. Your aldosterone is elevated as well and I suspect that one might be more important than people think it is and could give a clue about how the sympathetic nervous system is functioning. With other words if this is the case and there is a dysbiosis present due to a dysfunction of the SNS/PSNS then both should be treated at the same time. You have mentioned that elevated aldosterone might be the stress response from the gut dysbiosis but it might be the other way around.

I'm not sure that my Aldosterone is still elevated, it is a steroid that is produced alongside cortisol and I measured both only during an intense flare of symptoms.

I have since measured my cortisol a few times and it is much lower so I must assume that these steroid hormones are the body's response to extreme stresses. I've recently had improvements taking a multivitamin but some issues taking a strong activate B Complex. I suspect that taking oral methylfolate is actually worsening a possible B12 deficiency because B12 is so difficult to absorb from oral multivitamins.

Muon, I think I remember reading that sometimes your arms or legs burn, is that correct? Do you have other vitamin deficiency symptoms like tinnitus, vision problems, palpitations, joint aches etc?
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #86 on: December 28, 2018, 02:39:50 PM »
But have you measured your aldosterone level again? It could be elevated independent of Cortisol levels.

Yea my lower part of the arms can burn but that symptom has been significantly improved over the last year. I have no idea why. Palpitations and joint aches are still present yes. I had blurry vision problems in the past they are more rare now. Btw I have other problems with my eyes now. I had a dead pixel in my vield of view for a couple of years and still have but other spots are developing now in that same eye and become really problematic, it's my left eye. When I'm looking at white backgrounds and moving my eye I'm seeing the spots clearly moving and it's progressing. My right eye is also responding to POIS more frequent at the moment like there is increased tension inside. My GP says there is nothing you can do about these symptoms and does not refer me to an eye specialist.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2018, 02:52:27 PM »
No, I am finished with tests for now. I am testing supplements instead. I will retest Aldosterone when I have fixed my symptoms.

Muon, it really does sound like you have a serious B12 deficiency or something similar like B12 cofactors. Please read about B12 symptoms and how the standard blood tests are not reliable.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Nas

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #88 on: December 28, 2018, 04:07:26 PM »
Personally, I think Candida is used too often these days, like a catch-all term for any imbalance in the body. Another boogeyman is mast cell activation which is often blamed for histamine problems. The common issue is probably general gut dysbiosis.

There is a company called Openbiome that are currently selling FMT (Faecal Microbiota Transplant) capsules to treat recurrent CDiff infections in the USA. When these FMT capsules are offered to everyone, we'll hopefully see the end of many metabolic diseases such as POIS. Keep an eye open for such treatments, current FMT clinics are still using enema FMT delivery which won't fix any issues with the small intestine. I think the small intestine is the source of most of our POIS problems and I think a lot of us have vitamin and nutrient deficiencies due to malabsorption/dysbiosis.

I have a lot of symptoms that feel like B12 deficiency such as burning legs, tinnitus, blurry vision & joint pain. I've just bought Jarrow 5000mcg sublingual B12 lozenges to see if I can absorb enough B12 through my mouth lining. Oral B12 is notoriously difficult to process for some people either because of autoimmune disease or dysbiosis, so I may have to look at self-injecting B12.
With all due respect, general gut dysbiosis is no less "catch all term" or a "boogyman" than Mast Cells. If you want, go to the Mast Cell ("Activation") Disorders forum on Facebook and see for your self 100's of posts of people complaining  of exact same symptoms as we do. Many of them say they get flares after orgasm. Another clue is that if you look at the cascade of symptoms found in POIS sufferers and the locations of Mast Cells in the human body you will find that they correlate.
At this point I have never been as sure of the involvement of Mast Cells in POIS as ever.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2018, 07:17:04 PM »
Well you're entitled to your opinion about the mast cell stuff. I hope you eventually get the proof you're looking for.

Here's some B12 symptoms for anyone that's interested:

Mental/Psychological Symptoms
depression
anxiety
apathy
memory problem
disorientation
dementia
psychosis
hallucination
sleep disturbances
personality disorder

Physical Symptoms
anemia
intestinal damage
nervous damage
muscle tremor
lack of coordination, unsteady gait, impaired fine motor skills
dizziness, fainting
feeling cold, tingling sensation and numbness
paralysis
arteriosclerosis
heart attack
stroke
impaired vision, retinal damage
spastic disorders
incontinence
infertility

Source: https://www.b12-vitamin.com/symptoms/
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Nas

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #90 on: December 28, 2018, 07:32:04 PM »
And I suppose B12 suddenly drops when we are having an orgasm? But when we're off of orgasm it gets regained?
You are correct that B12 deficiency has these symptoms but it is no proof that it is connected to POIS.
You are not seeing the bigger picture Simon, this is a Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome, it has to be related somehow to orgasm and ejaculation.
Like I have no problem what so ever with people suggesting their own theories and explanations. But when you're calling out other theories and especially calling the mast cell theory a "boogyman". That's just uncool. MCAS is the closest we've eve gotten towards understanding POIS.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2018, 08:07:04 PM »
Please you create your own topic if you don't like what I'm saying on the thread that I started.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Nas

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2018, 09:30:57 PM »
Please you create your own topic if you don't like what I'm saying on the thread that I started.
Ok great, I'm going to criticize your own theory and when you dispute my criticism, I'll tell you to F off to your own thread. Classy...
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 09:33:20 PM by Nas »

demografx

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2018, 11:29:53 PM »

Personally, I think Candida is used too often these days, like a catch-all term for any imbalance in the body.


I agree, Simon.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

b_jim

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #94 on: December 29, 2018, 10:31:57 AM »
PRO :
- b12 is present in sperm
- lack of b12 is linked to PE
- b12 is easy to test in blood

CONS :
- liver stocks a lot of b12 so it seems impossible to have a quick deficit explaining Pois symptoms
Taurine = Anti-Pois
Suffering from lyme disease

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #95 on: December 29, 2018, 10:37:03 AM »
There hasn't been a single piece of evidence indicating a B12 deficiency in poisers.

Iwillbeatthis

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #96 on: December 29, 2018, 10:41:26 AM »
On the topic of b12 and folate my blood tests show my folate is borderline deficient and b12 is normal however when I try methyl folate it gives me brain fog. I have tried normal b12 and folic acid which didn't make me feel anything from both or even after a few weeks. I have just tried one methyl b12 today and my head feels a lot better than it usually does. I will update progress in a week.

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #97 on: December 29, 2018, 10:48:26 AM »
Perhaps this is something in your interest Simon. Bacterial products, like LPS, trigger toll-like receptors which can cause a state of inflammation. You could take a look at TLR4 antagonists or other TLR type antagonists since different species including fungals and viruses target different TLRs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TLR4#Antagonists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll-like_receptor

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #98 on: December 29, 2018, 12:13:55 PM »
There hasn't been a single piece of evidence indicating a B12 deficiency in poisers.

I've read about plenty of people on this forum who improved by taking a B Complex, Kurtosis made some interesting posts. B12 is different though as some people just can't absorb it from oral multivitamins.

Perhaps this is something in your interest Simon. Bacterial products, like LPS, trigger toll-like receptors which can cause a state of inflammation. You could take a look at TLR4 antagonists or other TLR type antagonists since different species including fungals and viruses target different TLRs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TLR4#Antagonists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll-like_receptor

There is an interesting study about university students who were fed McDonalds and had a high inflammatory response. Those that were given a probiotic with the meal had normal inflammation markers.

PRO :
- b12 is present in sperm
- lack of b12 is linked to PE
- b12 is easy to test in blood

CONS :
- liver stocks a lot of b12 so it seems impossible to have a quick deficit explaining Pois symptoms

b_Jim, from what I'm reading on other forums, people seem to think that if you have issues with processing B12 in the gut then your body cannot properly use the B12 stores in your liver, not sure if that's true or not (see links below). Some people also have a Transcobalamin II deficiency which reduces the ability of absorbed B12 to get into human cells where it can be used.

https://healthunlocked.com/pasoc/posts/131928359/b12-from-the-liver-to-the-body
https://healthunlocked.com/pasoc/posts/132180345/b12-deficiency-and-liver-stores-of-b12

Ultimately, the most accurate blood tests for B12 deficiency are Homocysteine and Methylmalonic Acid. The body needs B12 in order to process those 2 substances, therefore they are the best indicator of a B12 deficiency. You can have very high levels of active B12 but if Homocysteine or Methylmalonic Acid are elevated then the chances are that your body cannot use that active B12 efficiently.

On the topic of b12 and folate my blood tests show my folate is borderline deficient and b12 is normal however when I try methyl folate it gives me brain fog. I have tried normal b12 and folic acid which didn't make me feel anything from both or even after a few weeks. I have just tried one methyl b12 today and my head feels a lot better than it usually does. I will update progress in a week.

Iwillbeatthis, you may already know this but you can have something called a MTHFR mutation which means your body can only use the active Methyl versions of B12 and Folate. I'm finding that I react badly to high Folate foods and Folate is a cofactor for B12 in the methionine-homocysteine-folate-b12 cycle. I'm wondering if eating high Folate foods can increase the body's demand for B12 and worsen symptoms.


Everyone, I'm not saying we all have B12 deficiencies or that B12 deficiency causes POIS. This is just one avenue of many that I am considering since a lot of the symptoms match up. If you want my opinion on what causes POIS, I still think it is from gut dysbiosis but if a B12 deficiency (resulting from dysbiosis) causes most of my symptoms then I will just fix the low B12 for now and wait for a way to fix the dysbiosis. B12 is used in many bodily processes, you need B vitamins in order to make hormones like testosterone.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 12:48:13 PM by Simon66 »
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Nas

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #99 on: December 29, 2018, 02:30:18 PM »
Everyone, I'm not saying we all have B12 deficiencies or that B12 deficiency causes POIS. This is just one avenue of many that I am considering since a lot of the symptoms match up. If you want my opinion on what causes POIS, I still think it is from gut dysbiosis but if a B12 deficiency (resulting from dysbiosis) causes most of my symptoms then I will just fix the low B12 for now and wait for a way to fix the dysbiosis. B12 is used in many bodily processes, you need B vitamins in order to make hormones like testosterone.

Again, you are referring to generalities instead of focusing on the Orgasm/Ejaculation mechanism.
How ever, B12 could be a factor in Mast Cell Destabilization, similar to how Vit D3 deficient Mast Cell patients take Vit D3 supplements. This is why extensive tests and supplementation should be done by POISers to make sure that we have covered as many areas as possible.
Perhaps some of us do actually suffer from poor B12 absorption and processing which in turn leads to mast cells destabilization when Mast Cells are exposed to specific triggers ( Orgasm in our case ).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 02:40:01 PM by Nas »