Author Topic: Developed POIS after antibiotic use  (Read 46507 times)

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #320 on: January 20, 2020, 07:23:02 PM »
2008: Homocysteine <2.8 micromol/L RR: <12.0 umol/L

Vote on this poll plz: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3144.0

I think there might be gene mutations in epigenetic regulators involved. Different mutations means different response to treatment. I'm talking about personalized medicine. Mutations in genes regulating DNA methylation play a role in mast cell disease. Compare Table 1 to Table 2:

The genetic basis of mast cell activation disease - looking through a glass darkly

It's funny that you mention B12 and Folate. My B12 is elevated and my folate was elevated as well in the past. These two are being produced by gut bacteria.

I wonder if the raised B12 and folate is due to some cofactor deficiency in the methylation cycle, I thought you previously said B6 was also elevated which is another methylation vitamin.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #321 on: January 21, 2020, 12:26:23 PM »
I thought you previously said B6 was also elevated which is another methylation vitamin.
Yes I forgot about that one. I will try to upload these measurements in the upcoming weeks.

Vandemolen

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #322 on: February 01, 2020, 07:42:07 AM »
Same here again. It also expells something from the skin. My optometrist diagnosed me with Blepharitis and told me these channels under the eyelids were full of lipids and that I had to squeeze them out. So when POIS hits me these channels under my eyelids are accumulated with lipids (eyes get dry as well), heat will soften these lipids up so it can be pushed out more easily. These meibomian glands are being inflamed. My skin in general gets fatty and something is being expelled from the armpit yes, perhaps these might be lipids as well. POIS might attack gland specific tissue here.
Do you still have Blepharitis? Did the optometrist gave you a treatment or a medicine? Sometimes the eyelid tubes are too tight. Do you also get acne in the nose area? After getting moist eyes I have to sneeze whole day long. A few years I was using a lot of antibiotics so I did not had this eye problem anymore. But I am off antibiotics since a year. Now the problem is back.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #323 on: February 01, 2020, 06:37:37 PM »
Do you still have Blepharitis? Did the optometrist gave you a treatment or a medicine? Sometimes the eyelid tubes are too tight. Do you also get acne in the nose area? After getting moist eyes I have to sneeze whole day long. A few years I was using a lot of antibiotics so I did not had this eye problem anymore. But I am off antibiotics since a year. Now the problem is back.
Yes still have Blepharitis but it doesn't bother me. Yes she gave me eyepads which can be heated so the wax-like lipids melt and the channels can be cleaned out. But they fill up again after things like pois and stress. I got other more serious problems like spinal problems in lower back, pressure in spine when standing leading to weakness in legs.

I already complained about it to my GP but doesn't do anyhting about it...clown society. I think your problem is mast cell activty related. Symptoms come and go, are episodic or take years to fade to the background, at least that's what is happening in my case and I get the impression it might be true for you as well.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #324 on: February 10, 2020, 07:01:23 PM »
I've pretty much hit a brick wall with my experiments. The Lysine, Arginine and Lactobacillus probiotic supplementation no longer do anything significant although I think they may have crowded out some pathogens back when I was really sick.

The only product that I have used over and over with success is called Allicin Max, it seems to calm down my symptoms if I take 2 capsules. I tried taking 15 capsules at once but didn't get any more benefit. I will try taking 2 capsules several times a day to see if I can build some benefits gradually.

I still haven't found anything that improves mood and chronic fatigue reliably. I was ingesting 1 drop of "Thursday Plantation pure tea tree oil" and 1 drop of "Diamond G pure gum spirits turpentine" and did experience a good mood the next day but it doesn't seem to work anymore. I don't recommend consuming tea tree oil or turpentine, it seemed to stress my body after a couple days and they are considered toxic. Still, the initial mood benefits do seem to point towards some pathogen or microbiome imbalance as the potential mechanism. These mood and fatigue symptoms are the killer for me, they're stopping me from really living my life so it's something I'm very keen to fix.

I talked about the supplement SAMe previously, the Jarrow formula caused scary stomach pain (people say it is the mannitol ingredient), I found that I tolerated the Doctor's Best formula well but didn't get any mood benefit from it.

That's all for now guys, I'll keep up with the Allicin Max and report back if I find anything else significant.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #325 on: March 10, 2020, 03:27:24 PM »
I'm going to discontinue this thread as I don't really feel like I have much of a POIS reaction anymore. I do have a lot of other issues like chronic fatigue syndrome that I'll be pursuing and people are welcome to PM me if they want.

If POIS is an overgrowth of pathogens in the gut then I do know that several supplements have caused a stinging sensation in my gut and perhaps they wiped out these pathogens temporarily. The supplements are:

1. Sovereign Labs Colostrum LD (Vanilla Flavour)
2. Probiotic - L. Plantarum 299v 10 billion CFU capsule - Either Jarrow (USA) or Sanprobi (Europe) brands
3. I ingested just 1 drop of Thursday Plantation Tea Tree Oil in a capsule filled with sugar (BE WARNED THAT TEA TREE OIL IS CONSIDERED TOXIC WHEN INGESTED).

With all 3 of these supplements, I experienced a stinging sensation in specific areas of my gut for 1 or 2 days and then no further reaction. If I stopped using the supplements and retook them 2 months later, the stinging would again be present which suggests the pathogens return over time. Whether the reaction is related to POIS, I can't say.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #326 on: March 10, 2020, 03:37:56 PM »
I do have a lot of other issues like chronic fatigue syndrome that I'll be pursuing and people are welcome to PM me if they want.

Chronic fatigue syndrome is associated with mast cell activation disease. Ref

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #327 on: March 11, 2020, 10:46:35 AM »
I do have a lot of other issues like chronic fatigue syndrome that I'll be pursuing and people are welcome to PM me if they want.

Chronic fatigue syndrome is associated with mast cell activation disease. Ref

Yes, but fatigue is the body's response to many issues including chronic viral infections, mitochondrial disorders, electrolyte imbalances, vitamin deficiencies etc.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

marrtintintin

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #328 on: March 28, 2020, 06:56:05 PM »
After I watched this video—where the guy claims to have solved his pois (see link below)—I realised that I too had been taking lots of antibiotics prior my pois.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a method to achieve the same results as the guy? His method looks quite deadly. I also started a topic around the video, in case you want to have a look. It is called: “people who (claim) to have solved POIS”

Video: https://youtu.be/ISnnag8UOGw
About the video: This person claims to have solved pois by “resetting his gut”.
His method is the following: eating boiled veggies for a week and after this, introducing a hosepipe into his anus and pour water into his stomach for 30-60 min (Idk the technical terms); in this way, he claims having eliminated All bacteria in his gut. And so, he takes a probiotic to reintroduce bacteria into his stomach. After two days, he’s a new man.
This is something that I consider trying. However, I am sure that people will have something to say about this—because to my eyes the technique couldn’t be any riskier.
Anyone consider trying it? Any alternatives with the same effect?
So happy to be part of this community! Just a year ago, I was alone, nobody understood my “unreal” symptoms.
Digestion problems anyone? (I.e. using toilet every 3+ days) My POIS began as a teenager together with digest
POIS (13 or 7): photophobia, bloating, heavy brain fog, memory loss, muco

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #329 on: March 29, 2020, 02:46:13 PM »
There are clinics that offer colonic irrigation so you don't have to use your shower head like this person did. With these colonics, the body loses good and bad bacteria so it could potentially make your gut worse. I've never had the procedure done so can't say if it's beneficial.

Everyone has a unique gut ecosystem so we will all react differently to various probiotics and diets. I've written in this thread about some of the things I have tried and which probiotics I tolerate (BB536, 299v, Linden's Acidophilus).

If you think your gut is the problem then you really just have to start trying different things until you feel better. I still keep a written diary of my symptoms, supplements & food intake each day so I can gradually figure out what is good or bad.

With regards to the antibiotics, my thyroid went crazy after I took the Ciprofloxacin. I have test results that show I went hyperthyroid (overactive) for a month after the antibiotic and I believe my thyroid is still dysfunctional years later. I found a research article explaining the same issue with another class of antibiotics:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4884496/

I would say keep an open mind as to the cause of your issues, the endocrine system is located throughout the body and these antibiotics can do more than just imbalance the gut.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #330 on: April 26, 2020, 12:15:25 PM »
Have you thought about measuring fecal markers for intestinal inflammation innitiated by the innate immune system? This is non-specific. You could probe whether there is any inflammation present regardless of microbe strain. Beta-Defensin 2, LL-37, S100A12, lactoferrin, calprotectin etc.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #331 on: May 02, 2020, 01:28:15 PM »
Have you thought about measuring fecal markers for intestinal inflammation innitiated by the innate immune system? This is non-specific. You could probe whether there is any inflammation present regardless of microbe strain. Beta-Defensin 2, LL-37, S100A12, lactoferrin, calprotectin etc.

In a way I'm already doing that with my supplements, I'm currently taking bovine colostrum which contains lactoferrin. I won't be testing anything further, the body is just too complicated to supplement based on test results. Better to supplement blindly and see what works.

When I get a regimen that works consistently then I post it on this forum. I already have some days when my mood is great and I feel motivated to get housework done. My current supplements are focused around reconditioning the gut, handling pathogens and boosting antioxidants; things like Colostrum, Molybdenum, Acidophilus, SAM-E, GliSODin and Allicin.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

marrtintintin

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #332 on: July 10, 2020, 03:58:43 PM »
Have you thought about measuring fecal markers for intestinal inflammation innitiated by the innate immune system? This is non-specific. You could probe whether there is any inflammation present regardless of microbe strain. Beta-Defensin 2, LL-37, S100A12, lactoferrin, calprotectin etc.

I’ve done this the past month, and the doctor couldn’t find any inflamation
So happy to be part of this community! Just a year ago, I was alone, nobody understood my “unreal” symptoms.
Digestion problems anyone? (I.e. using toilet every 3+ days) My POIS began as a teenager together with digest
POIS (13 or 7): photophobia, bloating, heavy brain fog, memory loss, muco

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #333 on: July 10, 2020, 04:02:23 PM »
Have you thought about measuring fecal markers for intestinal inflammation innitiated by the innate immune system? This is non-specific. You could probe whether there is any inflammation present regardless of microbe strain. Beta-Defensin 2, LL-37, S100A12, lactoferrin, calprotectin etc.

I’ve done this the past month, and the doctor couldn’t find any inflamation

Please be more specific what markers?

marrtintintin

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #334 on: July 10, 2020, 04:04:33 PM »
QUESTION: antibiotics and gut biome/flora

I’ve been to the digestion specialist to get tests done for my digestion problems, which I believe they started after I was abusing antibiotics. I took feacal tests for inflamation and the doctor didn’t find inflamation. And then when I ask her about why am I having Problems and I insist that they may be related to antibiotics disrupting the my gut’s biome, the doctor insists that it’s been too long since I took the antibiotics (even if I insist that I took many and I might have never recovered!). Does any of you support the theory that antibiotics can disrupt your guts flora/biome for a longer period of time than 10 years?

Reply to Muon: I’ll ask the doctor about which markers did she use. Is there a difference between them? Maybe I can ask her for another test for other makers you tell me.
So happy to be part of this community! Just a year ago, I was alone, nobody understood my “unreal” symptoms.
Digestion problems anyone? (I.e. using toilet every 3+ days) My POIS began as a teenager together with digest
POIS (13 or 7): photophobia, bloating, heavy brain fog, memory loss, muco

berlin1984

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #335 on: July 10, 2020, 04:23:29 PM »
It helped me to eat yoghurt (real yoghurt or yoghuter drinks, not 'heat treated' one that i shockingly found in the shop once) every day and sometimes kimchi.

HOWEVER: Not during hay fever season (for me April+May+June). Then it's much better to stay away from histamine-stuff.

(I don't believe in the probiotic pills anymore so much after I heard so many bad things about them, e.g. their contents being dead already )

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #336 on: July 10, 2020, 04:27:45 PM »
Is there a difference between them?

Yes

certainlypois2

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #337 on: July 10, 2020, 06:29:04 PM »
It helped me to eat yoghurt (real yoghurt or yoghuter drinks, not 'heat treated' one that i shockingly found in the shop once) every day and sometimes kimchi.

HOWEVER: Not during hay fever season (for me April+May+June). Then it's much better to stay away from histamine-stuff.

(I don't believe in the probiotic pills anymore so much after I heard so many bad things about them, e.g. their contents being dead already )

Prebiotics help alot too. They help the bacteria grow.

BoneBroth

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #338 on: September 22, 2020, 07:27:30 AM »
It helped me to eat yoghurt (real yoghurt or yoghuter drinks, not 'heat treated' one that i shockingly found in the shop once) every day and sometimes kimchi.

HOWEVER: Not during hay fever season (for me April+May+June). Then it's much better to stay away from histamine-stuff.

(I don't believe in the probiotic pills anymore so much after I heard so many bad things about them, e.g. their contents being dead already )

Prebiotics help alot too. They help the bacteria grow.

Yes, but if you have IBS or SIBO pro- and prebiotics might support the bad bacteria as well. You first have to get rid of the bad bacteria, or all bacteria, before you start taking the pre-probiotica. It might take 1-3 months to kill the bacteria with special herbs and/or antibiotic.

Huser

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #339 on: January 26, 2021, 06:49:18 PM »
Hi Simon,

I am searching someone with POIS symptomes after taking Ciprofloxacin for 10 years! I can not belive I found you :)

I had problems with paine in testis since I was 16. At the begining paine started with no ejaculation. Aftet 1 year of paine i found out, that paine incrisses after ejaculation. After two years doctors gave me anthibiotic ciprofloxacin 250mg, 5 pills. I took them and the pain desapered even tho they never found bacteria in me.... STRANGE!

After that I didn't had no problems with ejaculation for 4 years. But then paine appeard again. But it was not strong. I had only slight paine in my left testis and only after I ejaculated. It lasted only for few days. I decided to visit doctors again.

They gave me Ciprofloxacin 750mg, 20 pills. When I started eating them the paine apeard in both of my testises and abdomen. It became so strong I ran to the doctors again and they gave me diffrent antibiotic called Tavanic...Its the same group of anthibiotic... When I took that one, the paine became so strong I have never felt it before!!! I had strong neurophatic paine for 1 year but the doctors didn't even want to hear my complaints.... I think they knew what they did, but were afraid I would sue them.

I read about peripheral neurophaty and I can not see the difference with the symptomes I had and the symptomes described in peripheral neurophaty...

Since then I have very strong paine after ejaculation in my testis and abdomen, I start to sweat, I feel strong heat threw my whole body and I can not read or do thing on the computer, because the paine incrisses so much when I trie to foccus on letters and meaning of the sentences!