Women with Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome

[Nas]

Thank you, refractory period dysfunction was my very first POIS hypothesis!

Yes. Refactory Period. is a Key Term.
Thank you guys for identifying it.
I think the refactory period is typically 2 -3 days for a healthy man.
I think that's the time in which it takes to replenish the fluids in the semen. Which includes fluids from the seminal vesicles, testicles, and prostate, and cowpers gland.
Some where I read it takes 7 days for a man to fully regenerate sperm. they guys with the tails... haha
Which is also a number which many POISers are familiar with?... I think.

Yes 7 days is the usual "healing time" although I find certain personality traits like socializing keeps improving week after a week. Pure OCD and Depression also keep improving beyond a week.
An interesting theory I had is that the replenishment of semen during these days increases androgen production leading to opening up of libido.
Perhaps an issue with androgen receptors is possible?

[demografx]

My very first theory many years ago was very simple: POISers suffer from slow semen re-generation.

Today, I’m less confident since I’ve watched a dizzying array of very bright POIS thinking here at the forum and by outside researchers. I have also developed more suspects: physical genital trauma, and excessive sexual activity. (The latter seems to have the very least agreement with other forum members/admins here )

[demografx]

I don't get any physical symptoms, does that mean that I don't have POIS?

I don’t know of any POIS definition that rules out sufferers such as yourself, with primarily cognitive & emotional symptoms.

yes, that's correct. mental symptoms are definitely included. Physical and mental and emotional symptoms.

Animus, I would add, in Nas’ case as an example, that all 3 symptom types need not be present to be a POISer.

[uhtred sonof]

My gf had orgasmic headaches (her doctor called it orgasm stress) in our teen years. Sometimes I wonder if I "caught" POIS from her.

[Muon]

My gf had orgasmic headaches (her doctor called it orgasm stress) in our teen years. Sometimes I wonder if I "caught" POIS from her.

So you are thinking about the transfer of a pathogen? Shaniliyl had the same thoughts, see link page 1.

[swell]

I put my thoughts on another thread, Muon. (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2512.0).  I really think, being concerned about a pathogen, while it could be true (and its our current way of finding diseases and research), in my opinion is a useless win-loose approach, where you win one battle and loose another later on.  Our body is itself a pathogen, there are infinite pathogens that live inside us (benefiting us and harming us), and our body deals with them (I believe much better than we would).  I think a "win-win" approach (from process engineering profession - that is mine) is to find the single significant and weakest link in the end-to-end value chain.  From this forum, and myself as case study, I gathered and now believe it is the impaired growth of our epithelial cells, such that our tissue has permeability which exposes us (un-necessarily) to these pathogens (that pathogen could be a lectin, shingles, candida or whatever hiding in semen).  How many pathogens are researchers going to go after, it could be a very counter-productive approach from a patient perspective.  I think, the best approach would be to increase resilience, thickness, the quality of our epithelial tissue, at least bring it to a reference/acceptable level where pathogens (good or bad) are no longer an issue.

I do believe now (as much as it would hurt some folks who are still suffering from POIS) that POIS inherently is good.  POIS is a protection mechanism where our body diverts essential resources away from brain (resulting in brain fog), essential resources away from tissue -> resulting in muscle weakness, skin symptoms, speech dysarthia, etc.  Our body wouldn't have to 'ration' resources this way for repair/replenishment if the weakest link - epithelial tissue was thicker and more resilient.  A curing of this weakest link, I think is big, much bigger than POIS, but I think its very rewarding (even though it would be threatening to some interest groups).  It would not only cure POIS, but give us a great overall health - longevity that we POIS'ers might be built for.

I think the various growth factors (too many by now I have used, have essentially cured (or for better word 'managed') my POIS 100%, some better than the others, and some with effects that I dont like, but I am a perfectionist and I do believe the perfect solution is there, it just needs to be compiled and polished.  For e.g. Testosterone (a growth factor) while manages POIS not perfectly, maybe like 75%? (Dem would be more appropriate to comment on that) which is good as it aids our body in regenerating and growth during the 7 day POIS curfew, how?  by activating mTOR metabolic pathways and more.  While that is good for our brain fog and skin symptoms, but holistically, that is questionable (to me).  Same goes for Thyroid T3, which I have tried and tested, and I would say it works close to 100%.  nanna1's stack is also growth factors and actually works if you continue it for a longer period at higher dosages, but again I have reservations.  nanna1 stacks single compound TMG (like Creatine) taken for extended period is powerful, but it also sends your muscle cells in a fast-drive hypertophy mode.  I believe these growth-factors are questionable for longevity.  We POIS'ers I think have a gifted DNA repair/archival process, and by un-necessarily keeping mTOR channels active long-enough is not conducive for longevity.  I actually appreciate Quantum's stack (its super healthy without all the growth on you everywhere) but I have not had any success with it. 

I have just exploring VEGF if that can improve our epithelial tissue ONLY without all that systemic all-across growth (that comes with other growth factors).  nanna1, Muon, and all you rest POIS'ers (or former POIS'ers), any thoughts?   

My gf had orgasmic headaches (her doctor called it orgasm stress) in our teen years. Sometimes I wonder if I "caught" POIS from her.

So you are thinking about the transfer of a pathogen? Shaniliyl had the same thoughts, see link page 1.

[IronFeather]

It's difficult to judge when nobody comes forward, that's my point. Women are aroused, have orgasms and can expel fluids during or as a result of sexual activity as well.

Hello, everyone. This is my first post here, so... sorry if I'm breaking any rules, I hope not, but I'm not sure how this forum works yet. I came across this thread when looking for information about POIS research on women, as I'm a woman with very heavy POIS symptoms myself. I believe there must be many female POIS sufferers out there, but it's such an embarrassing topic to talk about that I can understand why many of us never speak about it.

In my case, no doctor has diagnosed me with POIS, as they mostly haven't even heard about it, and some of them tell me it must all be psychological when I describe my symptoms. But I believe it has to be POIS... Following O or even arousal, in less than 24 hours I get a fever, lose my appetite, my throat hurts so much I can barely swallow, I feel irritated and sometimes downright angry for no apparent reason, my skin gets very warm but I'm shivering and with a fast pulse... This is ruining my life, and the symptoms have been consistently getting worse and worse every time, to the point that I fear dying during one of these "POIS attacks". And lately my neck gets so stiff and hurts so much that I can't even takes notes properly in class. It's a nightmare.

I just wanted to put this out there... I'm going to read as many old posts here as I can, in hope of finding something that could help me, but there seems to be a lot of information, any suggestions on where to get started?

[Nas]

Hey IronFether,
Glad you came out forward.
What about your libido after orgasm do you feel that you shut down and can't perform anymore or can you continue with no problem?

[Muon]

Welcome to the forum IronFeather.

How long do these symptoms last? Do they all fully disappear or is there still a low level of symptom intenstiy present after 'recovery'?

You can start by reading Waldinger's 2016 paper which you can find inside the POIS paper archive thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/dwblg5/helpful_links/

You can show this paper to your doctor especially this section about POIS in females: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5001999/#__sec11title

[IronFeather]

Thank you, Nas and Muon!

I'm not sure how to quote parts of two posts at the same time, so I'll reply without the quotes that you all are using and hope I'll get the hang of this editor soon. About what Nas asked me, my libido is always insanely high, as embarrassing as it is to admit it, and it doesn't decrease much after orgasm. In fact, even when I try to refrain from any type of sexual activity as much as I can, sometimes I miserably fail, and when that happens, sometimes I've thought "oh well, I know I'm going to get sick anyway already, so I might as well keep going a few more times". Very bad idea, that reasoning made me get horrible symptoms that left me postrated in bed for an entire month once, unable to even get up without throwing up, and I lost 20% of my body weight on top of being thin already. That's the only time in my life that I've missed class, and I've been really sick sometimes.

Muon, when I first developed POIS (as a teenager, around one year after getting my period for the first time), it only consisted of moderate fever during one day, exactly 24 hours. It's been getting consistently worse ever since, and that'w what scares me the most. During my teenage years it slowly graduated to fever during two days, three days, then a week... And once I started college I started getting other symptoms along with it, first swollen lymph nodes, then severe throat pain to the point that swallowing anything literally feels like I'm swallowing a knife, and now such bad neck pain that a few weeks ago I seriously thought I'd torn some ligament in my neck lifting weights the day before until I connected the dots and realized it wasn't that (it resolved in two days). Now my symptoms never last less that a week, and it's usually two.

After recovery, I usually still feel that my skin is warmer than usual, and I get mood swings that aren't typical of me at all. I've even snapped at people or screamed at friends before I realized what was happening, but apart from that it's pretty much all gone until the next time.

Thanks a lot for the info! I'll read those papers!

[Muon]

Sounds like POIS to me. Swollen lymph nodes could mean T-cell proliferation. Yes, doing it twice in a row makes it so much worse like for most people here on this forum.

How do you feel when you menstruate? Do you get symptoms from this?

And do your symptoms get worse when you expell more liquid down below?

[IronFeather]

How do you feel when you menstruate? Do you get symptoms from this?

And do your symptoms get worse when you expell more liquid down below?

I think I get no symptoms from menstruation at all. Sometimes I've had my period and POIS symptoms at the same time, but just because of a timing coincidence, and it doesn't make the symotoms better or worse as far as I can tell. Right now I've been in complete sexual abstinence for the past month, I'm on my period and I feel no symptoms at all. Sometimes my skin feels slightly warmer than usual, but that might be because even arousal causes mild symptoms in my case, and I can't control that as much as I'd like. I've read on this forum that this happens to some of you too.

Hmm, I don't think I expell any liquid, apart from normal natural lubrication (which I produce a lot of). Are you thinking of a possible allergy like the semen allergy hypothesis in the case of men?

I've had blood tests done multiple times during my worst fever episodes, and everything comes back normal except for very low levels of iron (I usually have normal or even high iron and hemoglobin levels), and through-the-roof amounts of C-reactive protein. This led doctors to think I could have mononucleosis or some kind of bacterial infection, but all specific tests came back negative. They put me on antibiotics anyway, and that solved most symptoms almost immediately and made me able to get out of bed and finally get better during the worst episode I've ever had. That's why I've always thought it must be some kind of infection by some pathogen, even when I used to believe an autoinmune reaction must be the cause. Now I don't even know what to believe or what to do.

[Muon]

Hi IronFeather,

1) You are talking about your teenage years, what's your age?

2) Symptoms started 1 year after your first period, was this the first time you masturbated?

3) Do you produce more natural lubricant when you orgasm?

4) How much time, roughly speaking, is there between the moment you start masturbating and reaching orgasm? There are people here with (lifelong) premature ejaculation.

5) Did you experience other symptoms before 'POIS' symptoms made their appearance?

6) What was the antibiotic you were using?

7) Did they measure your vitamin D, lactoferrin, interferons, NK, T and B cells?

8 ) If you feel like sharing your lab results you can do so here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.0

Iron is essential for bacterial growth. It sounds to me like arousal and orgasm alter immune parameter level(s) which are required to suppress bacterial growth. So orgasm might be a window of opportunity for the bacteria to grow. Once the rate of growth increases, they will take up more iron and you will see a drop in iron. Out of POIS the bacterial growth is decreased and bacterial iron uptake will be decreased and iron levels return to normal.

Since some of the bacterial suppressors are altered the body might switch to other mechanisms to reverse this behaviour like inducing fever. Once you are out of POIS the parameters return to a state in which they can suppress bacterial growth again. But everytime you orgasm the microbes gain more ground and the response gets worse over a longer period of time because their population becomes bigger. Lactoferrin might also play a role in this. I think your immune system might actually be in an abnormal state outside POIS and orgasm/arousal shifts this state, the shifting may not be preferable.

There is also something else that might induce fever: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2695.msg31290#msg31290
The vagus nerve might activate mast cells leading to the release of mitochondrial DNA which the body misconstrues as innate pathogen and release antibodies against this DNA.

I personally had an iron defiency when I was a kid long before I became sexual active, including food sensitivities as well.

[Muon]

@ IronFeather:

You may search literature which cytokines are capable of inducing fever and test these during fever mode. I've also sent you a private message regarding POIS researchers.

[Muon]

I have just exploring VEGF if that can improve our epithelial tissue ONLY without all that systemic all-across growth (that comes with other growth factors).  nanna1, Muon, and all you rest POIS'ers (or former POIS'ers), any thoughts?

I haven't looked into growth factors (other than VEGF) and the mTOR pathway. You can test VEGF at commercial labs, perhaps it's an idea to check that one out since no poiser has done this yet.