Author Topic: A noticeable and important medication that had very good results for one week  (Read 14155 times)

emirnazim

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I want to share  some  important thing that happened to me after taking mestinon .  my text is too long .sorry I cant help . but I shoud say that  as time goes by , I can not be sure that what is my problem .  because I saw near 6000 disease or syndrome had written  and listed in Wikipedia website . most of them had symptoms like fatigue , insomnia ,headache , irritability , flue like symptoms , fever , muscle weakness  or so on . they are very similar .(I didn?t read all of 6000 but took a look near 20 syndrome )
2 days ago I went a neurologist  to ask him if I have MG OR CMS OR OTHER Disease  and  after only just  tapping  my knee nerve (patella tendon reaction ) , without doing  any EMG (muscle and nerve test)  test or requesting for  ACHR antibody test , he told me you seem ok and you have not GM or CMS .he was not familiar  with pois  . but said  may be you have Hypochondria (disease that patient think he or she has a special disease but there is nothing wrong ) .
Actually when I hear   some words like that(you have not any health problem or its only your conception and feeling ) I feel myself very baadd.  But despite his woeds  I bought and took one mestinon  60 mg  (pyridostigmin)  .

Befor going on I should list the medications that I have used and took but they were not so effective :
Flouxsetine , propranolol , citalopram, clonozepam(revotril) , olanzapine , Narcofenil(provigil)
Dolouxetine ( had the best effect  between  those)

Also I should mention that this text is not suggesting any new idea for treatement   or I don?t  encourage and suggest any one using  or testing  mentioned medication . because each body has very special features and disorders  and allergies .so we should take only healthcare profession words .we know that if we take 2  or 3 different medication together maybe those have interaction and makes us endanger .so please don?t take my words as suggestion

The new medication(mestinon)  results  were very noticeable  and different from the past  as below :   (NO medication have affected me like this befor)
1-   One of very important symptom is sleeping for near half of the day (even after that many hours I felt   NOT FRESH).so the first important change that this medication made me happen was  SHORTENING  the need for sleeping (7 hour sleep a day and  feel  very fresh  and no need to the word ?? MUST  TO SLEEP?? . I mean I can stay awake without no effort  . I have not experienced it  before  even by taking  NARCOLEPCY  DRUG  called ??NARCOFENIL??  ).even after O  there is no need for more  sleep . this effect of  mestinon  in not written in any source . but may be there is relation between  sleep mechanism  and cholin .

2-   SLEEP ; WAKING UP;  AND DEPTH OF SLEEP:

When I wake up , I used to  feel   confuse  near  two hour in bed without doing or standing up .(near zero motivation)  but after taking  this medication  ,  duration(THE TIME ) between waking up and standing on feet lasts up to 5 minutes . when I wake up , I have zero need to continue the rest of sleep .also sleep depth and quality has grown very  well  that Narcolepsy drug(modafinil ) had not affected like this  .

3-   One of my very important symptom of my pois is   ??Being SLOW??  in every  thing. Slow walking  ,slow reacting ,eating , even slow car driving (( you know  in driving car we don?t need to muscular force  and energy  because engine does it to us . but I could  not drive my car in the speeds above 80 km per hour .I think  its related to low    speed  of processing data in my brain   .may be my brain cannot afford the processing information  in high speed so it was tolerating to high speed actions ). But after taking this medication , all of a sudden that vanished and I can drive and tend to like driving in fast speeds .my family are saying to me  ?? what happen to you . you drive very slow and carefully . but now you are completely opposite . ?? my task doing speed has very improved  too . chewing ,eating speed has improved very well .   

4-   IRRITABILITY and changing in mood after O :

Decreased  the  duration and  intensity  of irritability near 40 percent .

5-   HEART  AND   VASCULAR  EFFECT :  Another   very  HUGE  important effect  of  this single  medication that I  would never  expect  from a  (non ? heart and vascular medication) happened to me . I use to  or  used to   get  high heart rate even with doing middle heavy tasks  and very soon became tired and get asthma like situation . for example  walking up the stairs (3 floor for example) make me completely   unable to  continue the  forth and become asthma like . I have done so many heart related medical tests  before but results came back nothing(normal) .

But  after taking this miracle drug  I can  do 3 time more than before   at least , and without getting  tired or asthma . and now I can understand other normal people .(because I was asking myself how they can do this without getting tired).

6-   ASTHMA , shortness of breathing , muscular power  and duration:

I reached  noticeable results   . after taking this medication  , I can do muscular tasks without getting muscle tire . for example in bathroom  when I wash my head , after a short time I used to get tired  and my heart used to not allow me do more and had to stop .but now I can rise my hands and do wash my hairs for very longer than before  I used to . I also used to have not enough oxygen (or air) during taking bath but now I can . I used to take propranolol (beta blocker for heart ) . but  it doesn?t  has such a greatest and miracle result as mestinon has .
Another example , when I wash my car (myself ) I used to get tired between the process and used to stop and rest for moments .but now without stopping and breaks I can do it the whole !



7-   Motivation , Brain fog and cognitive effect  and motivation  :

In this term , I can say that my motivation and energy for doing new thins has improved noticeably  . especially motivation


Improvement in abovementioned groups by only a single medication  that I have never experienced such a vivid  and noticeable positive effects , lead me to the idea  that  may be I have a BIG issue with DEAR CHOLIN . but sure   7 day  of experience is not enough  to say anything .but what I  am sure is that this is not placebo effect .because I took many many medication with hopfully senses to cure but the placebo has not lasted for more than one day till now to me  . but its 7th day of taking mestinon .  I don?t know if I have cholin deficiency or if I  have enough  cholin but cannot absorb choline ? if I have genetic mutation in some genes related to CHOLIN .
But now I do have an important clue that many of my symptoms can affected by only  and lonely CHOLIN .
I have been  reading   posts  of  POISCENTER   forum every day. And want to  thank all of members  and ongoing discussion  and  specially ?? THIS TYPE  ?? he considered me to  read about MG  AND CMS  syndromes . the  idea of taking  mestinon also came from there  to my mind .
Then I also found that mestinon is acting the same way like  MYTELAS (both are cholinerase inhibator).mytelas  is not available in my country and I don?t know which one can be most effective for me .(if you have idea pls share about the differences).  So  this type of pois treatment  was also mentioned in  quantum s CHART OF POIS TYPES   
In     http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.0  as  number 4 .

I benefited very very positively from this forum .and I have been reading  all the discussion (but my poor English doesn?t let me be fast in reading ). I want to ask all you members specially cholinergic members that what do you suggest for me with abovementioned situation . I ordered  one supplement of 1200mg soy lecithin . I am taking 20mg vit B6  .1000 MG omega 3 (fish oil). Sometimes B12 tablet . one garlic a day .one boiled egg a day (near two week). also want to know which other supplement can be beneficial to cholin members . would you suggest B9  ? B2? (if so , please mention the generic and business name of it ). To be honest I have not a good experience  and  relation with my country doctors . because they don?t know enough or don?t need to know more (because money is coming any way ). for examples non of them suspected me about cholin or other possible related  issues . non of their medication has worked . until I discovered and tried it from web(THANK TO THE POISCENTER) . briefly, taking doctors notes and cautions is very important but  if they are real DOCTORS !!!!.i am sure that US and European citizens have very standard rules in health systems and my be you citizens have a more educated more standard healthcare system an doctors but me not .  for example here in my country doctors do not connected through the computers  to patient s whole documented details so that they have NOT a brief  and total information of patient health and treatments history . each doctor has his her own office and  you can have access  to them by paying to them .they don?t need to know about your  detailed  past health documented history . there are GOVERNMENTAL hospitals .but they too have not connection for your past experiences too .i think this system exist in US  OR EUROPEAN  OR  developed  countries . so I have big problem to explain myself to them(SO CALLED DOCTORS ) .they only say there is nothing wrong with you . so I don?t know how to ask them give me the related blood tests or so on (they are denying every thing  )  . the only way I found useful will be here I am sure. using other members experiences .so long story short , please give me your suggestions about what type of blood test or other test should I take ?  ACHR ab ? genetic DNA mutation ? which codes of DNA is related would you think in terms of CHOLIN ?  I also suspected myself having  POTS syndrome (NOTE:  POTS   İS  NOT  POIS) .because when I read POTS syndrome symptoms ,

http://www.potsuk.org/symptoms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postural_orthostatic_tachycardia_syndrome
Many of POTS suffers  can treated by MESTINON  or prydostigmin.

Not end . CFS  SYNDROME


See other  POIS member post :
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2219.msg18216#msg18216


PoTS may be under diagnosed in those with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and is estimated to affect around 25-50% of people with CFS. It has been suggested that these two conditions may be part of the same group of conditions with similar causes.

So in conclusion  at least until now I have to distinguish the most real one symptom that I have . but it is possible only by doing genetic DNA tests that I have not had any one .
I should try to know more about  POIS , CFS , POTS , MG OR CMS ., Mast cell activation syndrome  because they are connected to each one I thinks  ?. i will share my experiences as soon as i can find anymore .but do not forget , only a word of your view can help me to reach the  fact  in shorter time  ,
At the end i want to mention that this is only 8 days of experiments . and may be they wear off after some days or special duration for whatever reason .  i dont know completely who of members  cured by cholin (FLOPPY BANANA   AND     THIS TYPE   maybe) but i want you explain me the difference between mytelase or prydostigmin or huperzin or galantainin or so on ... i confused that wich one is base cure . the only reason why i selected mestinon was i only knew that name and not more types at that time .
i wonder your whole  views  ? im waiting your views  :)
Thank you very much for reading till here the end line  ;)


symptoms:extreme faique-over sleeping-High Blood Pressure-extreme irritability esp day two of O-poor memory and concentration-slow in(going-eating-reaction-driving-task doing)-week muscle-Mood changing-feel better in second O-high saliva-tired and asthma after heavy action or taking hot shower

b_jim

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Fantastic ,wonderful and brilliant job !  8)

Choline/acetylcholin Pois type seems very clear.
Taurine = Anti-Pois
Lyme disease "cured" in 2020.

Quantum

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Hi emirnazim,

If you have a cholinergic type of POIS, lecithin should be beneficial for you, as it has proven to be for other POIS sufferers of the cholinergic type.

It would be interesting to have some details about the dosage you take ( how many mg?) and how you take it ( daily?  before O? )


Please, make some follow ups in the coming months, to share if you still have the same level of effectiveness.
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Muon

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Keep experimenting and keep us updated Emir.

emirnazim

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I wanted to add an update about taking cholinesterase ,mestinon. I take 60 mg mestinon each day .its a tablet . You can not break it to smal sizes . I can say that it has had good results for me till now. Specially decrease the time for sleep . Power of muscles , being fast in doing task, lower brain fog , also should add that  I think there is no difference between whether you take it after O  or befor .even 6 hour later O too has the same effect I think . I only tried lecithin . But that acted for me something even worsen .but I didn't take it itself only . Took both mestinon and lecithin .regarding to the posts about cholin type. There is many drugs like huperzine A ,alpha gpc , sAME ,mytelase,that I should test .i also should say that I had strangely 3 time of O during 12 hours and that was no pois symptoms unless a little need to rest . I have come the fact that taking fish oil with mestinon help me so much to get ready the next O and high energy.any view?
symptoms:extreme faique-over sleeping-High Blood Pressure-extreme irritability esp day two of O-poor memory and concentration-slow in(going-eating-reaction-driving-task doing)-week muscle-Mood changing-feel better in second O-high saliva-tired and asthma after heavy action or taking hot shower

Scrub

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Hi, I tried Pyridostigmine after reading your post, because I'm after the idea that ACh or AChE are somehow involved in POIS, went to the drug store and bought some,  took 1 tablet (60mg) waited 45 minutes (time of absortion) and then I fapped. I felt ZERO cognitive affectation after it, I was feeling like a normal person should feel after an orgasm, I don't remember the last time I felt this way before, then I went to sleep.

Next day in the morning, I woke up WITHOUT any physical or cognitive symptom. I couldn't explain how or why this worked, since I'm not a medical or chemical sciences professional, maybe we can't recapture acetylcholine after ejaculation due to AChE, dunno but many of the low ACh symptoms match exactly with POIS symptoms.

Nas

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Hi, I tried Pyridostigmine after reading your post, because I'm after the idea that ACh or AChE are somehow involved in POIS, went to the drug store and bought some,  took 1 tablet (60mg) waited 45 minutes (time of absortion) and then I fapped. I felt ZERO cognitive affectation after it, I was feeling like a normal person should feel after an orgasm, I don't remember the last time I felt this way before, then I went to sleep.

Next day in the morning, I woke up WITHOUT any physical or cognitive symptom. I couldn't explain how or why this worked, since I'm not a medical or chemical sciences professional, maybe we can't recapture acetylcholine after ejaculation due to AChE, dunno but many of the low ACh symptoms match exactly with POIS symptoms.

Wow this is the most straight forward positive result I've ever seen on this forum.

b_jim

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Happy to read such a good post !
Taurine = Anti-Pois
Lyme disease "cured" in 2020.

Hopeoneday

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Well, this is wery good news.
I remeber one man talk about this in thenakecientists, i will found and post.
This could be that some of as hawe myastenia gravis or similar ilnes.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 03:44:33 AM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

Muon

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Hi Emir,

Just sharing an idea. There are also some indications that there is something wrong with vascular sheer stress/NO responses to acetylcholine (injections) or local heating in POTS patients. The results show a vascular endothelial dysfunction in these patients. Just look up papers with keywords: Endothelial dysfunction, POTS, acetylcholine, NO.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4511496/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4511487/

''Prolongation of ACh‐induced vasodilatation is suggestive of a disturbance to cholinergic pathways'':
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1475-097X.2003.00511.x

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/avd/7/2/7_ra.14-00048/_article/-char/ja/
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/46/5/1103

https://mybiohack.com/blog/postural-orthostatic-tachycardia-syndrome-pots-intolerance

I have also read somewhere on the internet that IL-8 released by endothelial cells could make neutrophils and/or lymphocytes migrate through some layers and alter barrier functions, but can't find that specific paper.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 12:42:39 PM by Muon »

Hopeoneday

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I hawe POTS, Muon, you are myabe on something.
What is intresting podible couses mosly womens, and they say it is conected to menstrual cicles, and posible couses-Symptoms often begin after major surgery, trauma, or a viral illness.
https://www.medicinenet.com/pot_syndrome/article.htm#what_causes_pot_syndrome
Dr-pois.

Foggedup

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Hi Emirnazim!

Can you give us an update?

Hopeoneday

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In this case could be worth to try HIPERZIN A, naturall "withouth side effects".
Enebody hawe ability to and test?
Dr-pois.

Nas

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Hi Emir,

Just sharing an idea. There are also some indications that there is something wrong with vascular sheer stress/NO responses to acetylcholine (injections) or local heating in POTS patients. The results show a vascular endothelial dysfunction in these patients. Just look up papers with keywords: Endothelial dysfunction, POTS, acetylcholine, NO.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4511496/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4511487/

''Prolongation of ACh‐induced vasodilatation is suggestive of a disturbance to cholinergic pathways'':
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1475-097X.2003.00511.x

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/avd/7/2/7_ra.14-00048/_article/-char/ja/
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/46/5/1103

https://mybiohack.com/blog/postural-orthostatic-tachycardia-syndrome-pots-intolerance

I have also read somewhere on the internet that IL-8 released by endothelial cells could make neutrophils and/or lymphocytes migrate through some layers and alter barrier functions, but can't find that specific paper.

Hi Muon,
Do you think that endothelial cells in the BBB and the testicles-brain-barrier are dysfunctional and thus causing components in the semen to pass through and cause an immunological response ?

FernandoPOIS

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I believe in this line of research related to endothelial dysfunction.

I have circulation problems, have had varicose veins surgery and have low blood pressure.

As I mentioned, one of the physical characteristics that I observed in the members of the facebook group is the small amount of connective tissue which is apparent in the style of the face with prominent cheeks. Low muscle mass also affects the way connective tissue is organized in our body. I believe several physical and metabolic dysfunctions are leading to an autonomic dysfunction and thus altering the relationship between the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. My POIS is related to me mood and the health of my cervical spine. Dopamine/Inflammation/Body constitution (genetics) are factors that contribute to POIS.

Muon

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Hello Nas,
Yes that's something that is on my mind, a generalized endothelial dysfunction. However involvement of mast cell activation is on top of my list though. Mast cells can regulate BBB permeability (just look up some papers). They also play a role in late phase allergic/hypersensitivity reactions and can modulate T-cell responses.

Hi Fernando,
You also see patients having connective tissue disorders in conjuction with mast cell activation and autonomic problems. The interaction of connective tissue and mast cells is also a line of research. Perhaps connective tissue mast cells are releasing mediators which weakens this tissue and lead to bad posture.

Mast Cells are found close to small blood vessels in loose connective tissue. They contain large secretory granules of heparin proteoglycan - a weak anticoagulant. They also contain histamine, which promotes an inflammatory reaction when secreted. Release of histamine causes endothelial cells lining venules to contract, weakening the junctions between these cells, and allowing proteins and cells from the plasma to leak through into the connective tissue.
https://histology.leeds.ac.uk/tissue_types/connective/connective_phagocytes.php

A New Disease Cluster: Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome, and Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome
https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(14)02927-3/abstract

https://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/233760

I personally have problems with my tendons during POIS episodes including the heel and groin area for example. Perhaps mast cells are being activated and interact with connective tissue. But I wonder if an endothelial dysfunction can weaken the junction between these endothelial cells without the need of histamine/mediator release.

Nas

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I personally have problems with my tendons during POIS episodes including the heel and groin area for example. Perhaps mast cells are being activated and interact with connective tissue. But I wonder if an endothelial dysfunction can weaken the junction between these endothelial cells without the need of histamine/mediator release.

That's what's on my mind right now Muon;
Perhaps we have a general endothelial dysfunction caused by lack of Choline/Acetylcholine nutrients. I have yet to try a successful Choline type treatment, I do remember Sam-e being beneficial, but that could explain the success others have with this type of treatment.

Nas

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Hi everyone,
So I just tried Orgasm on 60mg Mestenon; I took 60 mg at ~5pm then I took another another tablet at 7:30pm just in case, because Mestenon has a 3 hours range of effectiveness. I also want to add that I already took Mestenon 60mg yesterday and the day before.

Anyways at Orgasm I didn't feel much symptoms but at about 30 minutes symptoms started to pile and become very severe. At the start I didn't think I had symptoms but they slowly piled up to be heavy nausea, brainfog, disconnection and speech problems. On the speech problems at like 10 minutes I barely felt a problem saying anything but as time passed and I kept talking I started noticing a growing difficulty.

Overall though, orgasm usually cripples me into a zombie like state where I can barely say anything or think of anything. This time however, while still symptoms crept slowly afterwards, I feel like I'm not completely crippled. It was kinda similiar in a way to my Sam-e experience but this time I guess it was a much more noticeable of a difference.
I'll update you on my state tomorrow and see how my situation goes.

I am hoping that the effectiveness grows with the contiuous use of Mestenon. Overall the symptoms are decreased about 30 % which is unfortunately not as successful as emornazim's and scrub's.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 01:29:13 PM by Nas »

Quantum

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I am hoping that the effectiveness grows with the contiuous use of Mestenon. Overall the symptoms are decreased about 30 %.

I am glad to hear this, Nas.  You often shared that you have found absolutely nothing so far to relieve your POIS, but not true anymore.  You seem to respond to cholinergic support.   It may be now a question of refining your method ( dosage, timing of dose, cholinergic add on like lecithin, etc....)

Good luck in refining your method.   30% is already much better than nothing, though.
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Scrub

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Hi everyone,
So I just tried Orgasm on 60mg Mestenon; I took 60 mg at ~5pm then I took another another tablet at 7:30pm just in case, because Mestenon has a 3 hours range of effectiveness. I also want to add that I already took Mestenon 60mg yesterday and the day before.

Anyways at Orgasm I didn't feel much symptoms but at about 30 minutes symptoms started to pile and become very severe. At the start I didn't think I had symptoms but they slowly piled up to be heavy nausea, brainfog, disconnection and speech problems. On the speech problems at like 10 minutes I barely felt a problem saying anything but as time passed and I kept talking I started noticing a growing difficulty.

Overall though, orgasm usually cripples me into a zombie like state where I can barely say anything or think of anything. This time however, while still symptoms crept slowly afterwards, I feel like I'm not completely crippled. It was kinda similiar in a way to my Sam-e experience but this time I guess it was a much more noticeable of a difference.
I'll update you on my state tomorrow and see how my situation goes.

I am hoping that the effectiveness grows with the contiuous use of Mestenon. Overall the symptoms are decreased about 30 % which is unfortunately not as successful as emornazim's and scrub's.

Have you tried any other cholinesterase inhibitors? I had success with Pyridostigmine, but i'm very curious about taking Donepezil or Galantamine, especially Donepezil because it's half life is very long.