Author Topic: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread  (Read 256828 times)

BoneBroth

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #420 on: July 24, 2019, 07:15:00 AM »
I'm just saying that just because school medicine offers by-pass operations, doesn't mean that alternative medicine would not, if the situation had been the opposite (state-funded alternativ medicin an all hospitals, and school medicine only at private clinics). Neither system dismisses acute surgical procedures. So I believe your making a logical thinking error.

By the way, there is a misunderstanding about the definition on "alternativ medicine". There is no such thing as "alternativ medicin medical field". If your doctor for example prescribes you iron tablets, is he prescribing alternative medicine? If you buy Viagra (developed by nitric oxide-expert and nobel price winner "alternative medicine" doctor Louis Ignarro working for the nutrition industri), are you buying alternative medicine products? If you get medical acupunkture or medical yoga, are you getting alternative medicine? And as I said earlier, even bioresonance is included as hospitals. So in school medicine there are ALOT of "alternative medicine" as well.

There are just two VIEWPOINS on how the body works. School medicin (wich is just about 100 years old) mainly focus on suppressing symptom by artificial substances (supress functions, removing tissues, changing the internal physics) and have very little knowledge about the cause-and-effect biochemistry, the bigger picture. "Alternative medicine" viewpoint look at the whole chain between cause and effect (holistic view), and adjust the cause (wich only has to be done with natural methods) because they understand that when the cause is gone, the body itself fixes the symptoms in 99% of cases without any artificial assistance or substances. Self healing.

Why dont school medicin do this? There is just one simple answer. The cause of school medicine - Money with disease! Big Money! If you remove that cause, there will just be alternative medicine left, and a healthy popuation.

fernab

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #421 on: July 24, 2019, 07:53:12 AM »
I agree with you BoneBroth.

Big pharma and economic interests are strongly affecting the health system worldwide. Mainstream medicine is strongly positioned and supported by a hugely powerful pharmaceutical industry. And I think this leads to think that official medicine is the most reliable... It's a question of fear of the unknown and be suspicious just because it's not something official.

BoneBroth

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #422 on: July 24, 2019, 09:16:30 AM »
That's how the game is played. And why do pharmaceutical companies spend all their miillion dollars on artificial substances? Are artificial substances mostly better than naturals? Of cource not! The other way around! Naturals has worked wonders for ages. Artificials are not recognized by the body and are treated as poison in 100% of the cases (for naturals maybe 1%, in the case of some herbs). Thats why there are never ending lists of side effects on drugs leaflets and basically nothing on naturals. So why all the money? Because of two simple reasons that anyone in the business will agree on:

1. The legislation (again, founded by mr competition-is-a-sin-so-make-drugs-based-on-our-oil John Rockefeller) demands them to cough up an enormous amount of money to have their drugs approved by the FDA.
2. They will only have their money back and make a profit if the products are patented, so they are mainly researching the effects of artificial substances on the body (not the side effects that show up on those poor voluntary people who get some pocket money for participating in the drug-studies). No natural substance can be patented, hence they do not put their money in that bag, (besides some side of product line).

If the drug, unlikely, becomes approved on the first run (and here's where research cheating playes a big role, since they have to statistically manipulate the results so the side effects doesn't look too bad on the FDA-application), the price of the product will be about a hundred times higher than a natural product (or therapy) that will do the same job. So, to connect to beginning of this thread, if POIS research is "kidnaped" by the medical establishment (which almost every other disease assosiations has been, because they always put a "scientific medical board" on top with orthodox MD's) the outcome will be as with all other diseases: There will be donation campaigns, there will be research in absurdum, there will be promises of cures in "only 10 years from now" Wooo! (its always 10 years ahead - short enought to iinstill hope, long enought to forget the broken promise). Then after 30 years there will be a very expensive prescription drug, that will soon be be stopped by the FDA due to "unexpected side effects" and deaths, and the circus starts over again untill they have something that doesnt cure a shit (cancer/HIV/type 2 diabetes/asthma/alzheimers blah blah blah...). Am I the only one saying this? NOO! The list of whistleblowing research MD's that are jumping off the mad big pharma train is growing longer every day.

Do I whine at the present POIS research? No! I'm not sufficiently familiar with this particular matter yet, tought I feel it's in the making. I just want you to understand what you might expect if things turnes out "as usual". And if noone has ever reflected over this matter before here, it might be about time someone does. Today I recieved "Nanna's POIS stack" products - 100 % naturals, no FDA fee needed, no 10 years waiting, cheaper then drugs, no prescription, no doctor wiseacre, works for many members, no adverse side effects (if any) - just as it should be. :)

« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 10:13:42 AM by BoneBroth »

Hopeoneday

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #423 on: July 25, 2019, 11:11:33 AM »
Low neutrophils high lymphocytes
https://ic.steadyhealth.com/low-neutrophils-and-high-lymphocytes

Neutrophenia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutropenia
Neurotrophils should be in the highest percentage in wbc count.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/265373.php
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 12:13:02 PM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

Muon

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #424 on: July 31, 2019, 05:27:39 AM »
Here is another idea; cytokines and other markers in the ejaculate could be investigated. Perhaps there is some sort of inflammatory process going on in the genitourinary tract which you won't be able to detect in blood.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0897.2009.00786.x
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0897.1994.tb00853.x
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11255-013-0400-8

kingfisher

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #425 on: August 07, 2019, 12:43:08 AM »
A question that arises: is POIS because of an inordinate innate immune response? The adaptive immune response (T/B cells) may kick in later and may not contribute much to the symptoms we experience.

The innate immune response is non-specific and has fixed pattern recognition receptors. It just responds to stuff that it believes have not been in the body before AND ALSO believes are from germs. Given that the body state changes quickly after orgasm (in some cases just a few minutes for the sneeze to occur), it could be because the innate immune cells in the g-u tract sense something ("the antigen") that is part of the fluids released. 

It will be interesting to find if there are any blood tests that can identify if the innate immune response is overly activated following orgasm. As far as I could understand -  the cells of the innate immune system are typically located near the tissues - natural killer cells, mast cells, macrophages, dendritic cells etc. Neutrophils are also part of the innate immune response but they are circulating in the blood and migrate into tissues during infection/injury.

Refer: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8395744_Effects_of_Sexual_Arousal_on_Lymphocyte_Subset_Circulation_and_Cytokine_Production_in_Man

"Sexual arousal and orgasm increased the absolute number of leukocytes, in particular natural killer cells (CD3-CD16+CD56+), in the peripheral blood. In contrast, T cell (CD3+) and B cell (CD3-CD20+) subpopulations as well as the production of interleukin 6 and tumor necrosis factor alpha remained unaffected by sexual activity. These findings demonstrate that components of the innate immune system are activated by sexual arousal and orgasm."

As an aside - it's quite possible (a hypothesis again) for some of us there is a genetic or epigenetic defect in the way immune tolerance is established in the g-u tract. By the time of puberty, if tolerance to self-antigens (not just spermatozoa but all of the components in the seminal fluids)  is not properly established, the immune system would attack it naturally. Maybe that's why some of us developed POIS during the onset of puberty. Refer https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2364484/

" Immune mechanisms have evolved to actively suppress the autoimmune response to spermatozoa within the genital tract. Unlike in the circulation where CD4+ helper T lymphocytes predominate, CD8+ suppressor/cyto-toxic T lymphocytes are the most prominent T cells in the epididymis and vas deferens. In addition, spermatozoa suppress pro-inflammatory lymphocyte immune responses, possibly by inducing production of anti-inflammatory cytokines.  Anti-sperm antibody production is induced in the male genital tract when a local infection or disruption in the genital tract physical barrier leads to an influx of CD4+ T cells...The mechanisms to inhibit immunity to sperm may hinder effective immune elimination of micro-organisms in the male genital tract."

« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 06:22:04 AM by kingfisher »

Muon

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #426 on: August 07, 2019, 12:02:31 PM »
Some seem to acquire it later in life which seem to make a case for involvement of the adaptive immune system. One cell type that couples the innate to the adaptive immune system is the dendritic cell. If the immune system is involved the natural barriers, which is the first line of defense, seem to be failing somehow. Maybe there isn't a self-antigen involved but the body is reacting to the cytokine content of sperm. Groups of cytokines could be investigated.

Active dendritic cells release cytokines from the IL-12 family (12, 23 ,27), macrophages: IL-1, IL-6, TNF-alpha, IL-8, IL-33, CD8+: Perforin, granzyme B, Fas ligand etc. My mother gets a burning sensation inside her vagina upon contact with sperm, there might be something going on with recognition processes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3570961/
This paper also describes carbohydrate/lectin signaling, reminds me of how some members are sensitive to food like carbs, perhaps there is a connection.

kingfisher

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #427 on: August 09, 2019, 05:30:46 AM »
There are many cytokines. Please don't take me wrong, but I feel we could end up in a wild goose chase - even if certain cytokines are elevated, we may not be in a position to find out what's causing the release of those cytokines.

I think taking a biopsy of prostate tissue should be considered. The advantage is direct histopathological evidence. Unfortunately it is an invasive procedure and costs $. This procedure is usually done in urological clinics for prostate cancer diagnoses. A lab pathologist could easily identify tissue abnormalities - if there is inflammation, infection etc. For example, in the case of infection, CMV-infected cells show up as intranuclear "owl's eye inclusions".

I don't know if any such similar procedure is possible for the seminal vesicles.

Also, lab tests for semen cultures could be useful to rule out micro-organisms. Many clinical labs have tests for semen bacterial cultures.  I am not sure if clinical microbiologists have some methods for detecting viruses in the semen. 





« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 10:48:13 AM by kingfisher »

itsmel

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #428 on: August 25, 2019, 05:16:58 PM »
Does anyone know a biopsy test would help contribute to find answers to POIS?
Let me explain, I have a physical manifestation that I have not hear much about this forum.
After an O my lips, tongue and face physical attributes changes drastically.
The lips and tongue would swell as it look like I have minor form of angioedema, not so bad but its obviously that doesn't look normal. My face feels loose and saggy, if I run my fingers across it feels like its not firm.

Other than these physical appearance I have your typical POIS symptoms.

I went to an 3x allergist but didn't tell them about POIS because
1. Obviously with such a rare condition it's unlikely they ever heard of it.
2. They might think I'm crazy.
3. I want to converse and explain my issues that something that they can see.

So 2 out of the 3 allergist suggest me I can try an biopsy.
Ok, now if I get an biopsy, whether its from the tongue or lip, what kind of answers can we get back?
I do believe from the physical appearance perspective it seems they are due to inflammation or histamine.
What I'm afraid is that after getting the biopsy and results, it will be like,

Doc: Ok, I got your results. It seems there is major inflammation to the tissue/cells.
Me: How do I fix this?
Doc: I don't know.
Me: :|

I do also experienced POIS symptoms and swelling manifestation without sexual stimulation such as,
a. Exercise
b. High calorie diet
c. Vitamin D
d. Late sleep or little sleep

Two temporarily solutions I have experienced are,
a. Fasting for 2-3 days
b. B9/B12 (this lasted for 2 weeks which I thought I was cured and no longer have effect)

I also have some data I can contribute such as,
1. Regular blood test
2. Pituitary
3. Thyroid

If there a test if like me try first for comparison please let me know which.

demografx

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #429 on: August 26, 2019, 12:04:23 AM »
Thanks, itsmel...and to everyone else contributing to this thread!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

nanna1

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #430 on: August 27, 2019, 06:04:24 PM »
... I have a physical manifestation that I have not hear much about this forum.
After an O my lips, tongue and face physical attributes changes drastically.
The lips and tongue would swell as it look like I have minor form of angioedema, not so bad but its obviously that doesn't look normal. My face feels loose and saggy, if I run my fingers across it feels like its not firm...

Hi itsmel,

  It is difficult to tell what this might be without the medical test, but what you described could be a mild form of Lymphadenopathy. It is a disorder of the lymphatic system and the lymphatic system is an important part of the immune system. Here are some resources on the lymphatics (Wikipedia article and Youtube video).

  A biopsy of the tissue (lips, tongue, face) may not yield much unless you have a local bacterial infection. But if the swelling only happens after orgasm, this does not sound like a bacteria. The fluid causing the swelling may be more beneficial. For example, a lumbar puncture examines the fluid in your spinal cord and brain to see if their are any signs of disease affecting the nervous system. A liquid biopsy similar to a lumbar puncture (but for your tongue) may be helpful. But it is still not clear to me why your allergist recommended a biopsy in the first place. Did they give you the standard Skin Prick Test?

  Low vitamin C levels are correlated with high histamine, inflammation and immune dysfunction. Several people have tested for histamine and thyroid blood levels and they were normal (medical patterns post: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2695.45). We still need test for the following to rule out potential causes:
1. norepinephrine (noradrenaline) blood test: post-orgasm same day
2. vitamin C (ascorbatic acid) blood test: during POIS illness symptoms
3. lymphocyte blood panel (T cell, B cell, NK cell levels): before orgasm and during POIS illness symptoms
4. complete blood test: during POIS illness symptoms

If you are willing to share your medical data on the "Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results" thread, please do!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 06:18:59 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

BoneBroth

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Adrenal stress lab results!
« Reply #431 on: September 08, 2019, 03:41:42 PM »
Just got the result from cortisol/DHEA saliva test (4 measure points). Samples were taken the day after POIS symptoms from NE:

Cortisol (nmol/L)
AM: 14 (reference 7-30, optimal 14-25)
Noon: 2.4 (reference 2.1-14, optimal 5-10)
Evening: 4.0 (reference 1.5-8, optimal 2-5)
Night: 0.99 (reference 0.33-7, optimal 1-4)

DHEA: 176 pg/mL (reference 137-336)

Laboratory comment:
"AM cortisol level appears adequate, although the suboptimal diurnal cortisol pattern is suggestive of early (Phase 1) HPA axis (adrenal gland) dysfunction."

My comment:
Results supports my cortisol hypothesis: To combat POIS-inflammation the adrenals needs cortisol. Long time cortisol secretion causes adrenal exhaustion and low adrenal cortisol response. 1-3 days after NE inflammation is hight, so cortisol should skyrock, but it is lower then optimal and in lower part of reference.
DHEA is within range, but low, which indicates low cortisol (DHEA and cortisol are secreted in same levels in healthy adrenals). However, there are other anabolic hormones that are also secreated together with cortisol: Aldosterone and testosterone. I have earlier tested below reference in testosterone in saliva (not normal in blood at a point years later). I also have high scores on deficiencies on aldosterone and testosterone at the questionaire at Dr herthoges homepage here: https://www.hertoghe.eu/wp-content/uploads/TOUS-LES-TEST-1.pdf

What next?
Possibly laboratory analys of aldosterone, testosterone and possible progesterone.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 04:21:44 PM by BoneBroth »

Nas

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #432 on: September 08, 2019, 04:55:59 PM »
I don't think you read the lab comments correctly, your cortisol levels are completely normal but they are suboptimal meaning you could be headed to a dysfunction in the future but not currently.
Otherwise this should actually eliminate the involvment of Cortisol in your POIS.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 10:09:23 AM by Nas »

BoneBroth

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #433 on: September 09, 2019, 05:47:16 AM »
Are you answering me or b_jim?

Nas

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #434 on: September 09, 2019, 10:10:05 AM »
Are you answering me or b_jim?
Sorry I was addressing your post and for some reason I thought it was b_jim's.

BoneBroth

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #435 on: September 13, 2019, 08:30:15 AM »
But suboptimal cortisol levels in a state of total body inflammation is not a good sign.

Muon

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #436 on: September 28, 2019, 10:51:42 AM »
Simon got high Prolactin: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg24995#msg24995

Sex Hormones August 2019 (All normal except very high Prolactin)
Albumin 42.1 g/L (Range: 35 - 50)
SHBG 25.4 nmol/L (Range: 18.3 - 54.1)
FSH 4.19 IU/L (Range: 1.5 - 12.4)
LH 4.7 IU/L (Range: 1.7 - 8.6)
Oestradiol 61.5 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)
Testosterone 11 nmol/L (Range: 8.64 - 29)
Free Testosterone - Calc. 0.255 nmol/L (Range: 0.2 - 0.62)
Free Androgen Index 43.31 Ratio (Range: 24 - 104)
Prolactin 638 mU/L (Range: 86 - 324)
DHEA Sulphate 5.180 umol/L (Range: 4.34 - 12.2)

Some ideas:

Prolactin mediates psychological stress-induced dysfunction of regulatory T cells to facilitate intestinal inflammation

Prolactin down-regulates CD4+ CD25hiCD127low/-regulatory T cell function in humans

Release of prolactin and lh and histamine-containing cells in brain

Prolactin and autoimmunity
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 11:28:12 AM by Muon »

Nas

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #437 on: September 28, 2019, 11:51:44 AM »
High prolactine can also be a symptom of low dopamine.

"One of the main regulators of the production of prolactin from the pituitary gland is the hormone called dopamine, which is produced by the hypothalamus, the part of the brain directly above the pituitary gland. Dopamine restrains prolactin production, so the more dopamine there is, the less prolactin is released. Prolactin itself enhances the secretion of dopamine, so this creates a negative feedback loop."
Ref: https://www.yourhormones.info/hormones/prolactin/


Muon

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #438 on: September 28, 2019, 12:04:30 PM »
High prolactine can also be a symptom of low dopamine.
Ref: https://www.yourhormones.info/hormones/prolactin/
My aunt has this: ''disturbances to the menstrual cycle...''

Muon

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Re: Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread
« Reply #439 on: October 07, 2019, 04:52:02 PM »
Does anyone know a biopsy test would help contribute to find answers to POIS?

So 2 out of the 3 allergist suggest me I can try an biopsy.
Ok, now if I get an biopsy, whether its from the tongue or lip, what kind of answers can we get back?

There is one guy here who did a lip biopsy because of his dry mouth. You can find it inside the thread about sjogren's syndrome. He has a borderline positive score. Positive means lymphocyte infiltration around certain glands. Perhaps POIS triggers lymphocyte infiltration and this correlates to inflammation. Now to think of it what if this happens in the urinary tract or GI tract?

Bluesbrother got interesting results when you consider GI theories: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg24765#msg24765

Blood Panel:

- Elevated Creatinine: 142 umol/L (62-115)
- Low Lactate Dehydrogenase: 124 U/L (125-220)
- Low White Blood Cell Count: 3.45 10e9/L (3.88-10.49)
- Low Neutrophil Count: 1.47 10e9/L (1.56-6.52)

Stool Sample:

- Positive test for Entamoeba histolytica: (negative)
- Positive test for Norovirus GI: (negative)
- Low Bifidobacter: 8.1 10e9 (>8.9)
- High Staphylococcus spp.: 6.5 10e5 (<1 10e4)
- Low SIgA: 473 ug/mL (510-2040)
- High Lactoferrin: 13.35 ug/mL (0.07-7.2)

Other tests:

- Low gfr: 53 ml/min/1.7 (>60)
- Prostate: Normal, apart from small chalky spots

Interleukin-8 gene expression in the human colon epithelial cell line, HT-29, exposed to Entamoeba histolytica
''the early host response to E. histolytica is characterized by an infiltration of neutrophils''

So could his low neutrophil count correlate with his positive Entamoeba histolytica test due to infiltration?

''These results suggest that acute inflammatory reaction by E. histolytica may be initially triggered by proinflammatory cytokines such as IL-8 secreted from epithelial cells of the colon.''

This is the same cytokine that is elevated in patients with Norovirus: Norovirus in symptomatic and asymptomatic individuals: cytokines and viral shedding
''the symptomatic group generally exhibited a greater elevation of T helper type 1 (Th1) and Th2 cytokines and IL‐8 post‐challenge compared to the asymptomatic group''

I wonder if there is a link somewhere between patients with low neutrophil counts, my IL-8 and Th1 cytokine elevation, and bluesbrothers findings.
They also talked about HT-29 cells in the first article. Bob Morane talked about that Rifaximin had effect on him. Rifaximin is able to modulate IL-8 release from HT-29.

Diagnostic Value of Calprotectin in Irritable Bowel Syndrome
and in Inflammatory Bowel Disease

''The expression of IL 8 was enhanced during the acute infection and it continued to be increased in the patients who suffered from postinfectious IBS...''. Postinfectious IBS?

Bluesbrother's lactoferrin is high which might indicate GI disease. Also what are these chalky spots on his prostate?