Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS

[Muon]

This paper talks about how viral latency could sensitize the human host to non-viral (self)antigens (pois?). It also talks about age-dependent latency effects: Immune Modulation During Latent Herpesvirus Infection

Virus-induced dysfunction of the endocrine system:
''Furthermore, of essential importance is the fact that viral infection of the testicular cells may result not only in changes in testicular function, a serious risk for the fertility and general health of the individual (such as a fall in testosteronemia leading to cachexia)''
Viruses in the Mammalian Male Genital Tract and Their Effects on the Reproductive System

[nanna1]

This paper talks about how viral latency could sensitize the human host to non-viral (self)antigens (pois?)
...Immune Modulation During Latent Herpesvirus Infection

Virus-induced dysfunction of the endocrine system:
...Viruses in the Mammalian Male Genital Tract and Their Effects on the Reproductive System

Thanks Muon for sharing these papers! I haven't finished reading them yet, but what I have read so far seems quite interesting!

[Muon]

Perhaps it's an idea to check your IL-8 serum level, nanna:

Potential involvement of IL-8 in the pathogenesis of human cytomegalovirus infection

Varicella-zoster virus infection induces the secretion of interleukin-8

Proinflammatory cytokines and matrix metalloproteinases in CSF of patients with VZV vasculopathy

[nanna1]

Perhaps it's an idea to check your IL-8 serum level, nanna:...

Muon, I agree that IL-8 is a good cytokine/chemokine to measure, not just because of the connection to infection but also because IL-8 is a tissue-specific cytokine. Most tissues in the body do not release IL-8. IL-8 is release from macrophage cells, but when it comes to tissues in the body, IL-8 is only released from epithelial cells, airway smooth muscle cells and endothelial cells (Interleukin 8 - Wikipedia). We could rule out airway smooth muscle cells by testing for creatine kinase. So this would mean that if during a certain time period macrophage activity is normal but IL-8 levels are elevated, then the IL-8 is likely coming from the vasculature (blood vessels and skin). I think tissue-specific cytokines could aide in narrowing down the location(s) of POIS in the body. Also, some pathogens can only infect (and establish latency) in certain tissues and cell types. So knowing what cell types the IL-8 (or other cytokines) is coming from could rule out (or implicate) potential types of infection.

  With that said, I have looked up the prices for several cytokine test that I am interested in, but I do not have money to invest in these at this time. Thanks for the suggestion though!

[Nas]

IL-8 is only released from epithelial cells, airway smooth muscle cells and endothelial cells (Interleukin 8 - Wikipedia). We could rule out airway smooth muscle cells by testing for creatine kinase. So this would mean that if during a certain time period macrophage activity is normal but IL-8 levels are elevated, then the IL-8 is likely coming from the vasculature (blood vessels).

According to the Auto-immune theory this could be produced by the Urethra.

I think tissue-specific cytokines could aide in narrowing down the location(s) of POIS in the body.

Sounds great! Doesn't Muon have some of his Cytokines tested? You can start from there!

[Muon]

Ah ok you don't have the money, fair enough. Yes I do like to test GM-CSF and the IFN-gamma inducing factor IL-12 (and IL-18) from your list. The problem however is that those tests are batch analysis tests, which are too expensive. For joint pain induced by POIS I have my eyes on MMPs, GM-CFS or Substance P. The IL-8 might also be signals from damaged cells, perhaps as collateral damage from POIS. I believe epithelial cells release this cytokine as a danger signal when damaged. I also want to know if my BDNF serum is low (depression, memory issues). BDNF serum levels are proportional to BDNF levels in the brain in animals. I will leave this thread alone for now I have nothing else to say about herpes for the moment.

[nanna1]

  "Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) and sympathetic-adrenal-medullary (SAM) axes activation during spaceflight occurs as indicated by increased levels of stress hormones including cortisol, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), epinephrine, and norepinephrine. These changes, along with a decreased cell mediated immunity, contribute to the reactivation of latent herpes viruses in astronauts...
  Astronauts shed Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), varicella-zoster virus (VZV), and herpes-simplex-1 (HSV-1) in saliva and cytomegalovirus (CMV) in urine. Larger quantities and increased frequencies for these viruses were found during spaceflight as compared to before or after flight samples and their matched healthy controls...
  These findings coincided with the immune system dysregulation observed in astronauts from shuttle and ISS missions."

-Herpes Virus Reactivation in Astronauts During Spaceflight and Its Application on Earth (SK Mehta, et. al., 2019)

[Muon]

Cytomegalovirus in Semen - Persistence and Demonstration in Extracellular Fluids

[nanna1]

Interesting article Muon!

[nanna1]

"Case 1
  The first case is that of a 57-year-old male... Over the 6 years preceding presentation, he had noticed a gradual onset of symptoms following orgasm. The patient describes experiencing severe physical and mental tiredness and lethargy soon after orgasm. He also complained of flu-like symptoms with myalgia, especially in his legs, excessive sweating, and poor concentration with mental dullness. These symptoms were at times associated with right-sided headache. The collection of symptoms lasts up to 3 days, during which the patient feels that his ability to perform his normal physical and mental activity is impaired.

...After engaging in sexual activity without having orgasm, he does not experience any symptoms. He is a physically active and fit man who exercises regularly, and is able to ride a bike for several hours a week. He does not report any similar symptoms while exercising. The only other situation in which he has experienced similar symptoms is following excessive alcohol ingestion.

...The patient denies any sexual or genital pain. There is no history or clinical features of psychiatric illness, and specifically he has never been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, or psychosis.
...His past medical history includes irritable bowel syndrome and mild hypercholesterolemia.

...The nature of his symptoms appeared flu-like, and so we asked the patient to trial a prophylactic dose of potent nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medication, which can be effective at reducing the myalgia associated with viral illness. Diclofenac 75 mg was prescribed, to be taken 1-2 hours prior to sexual activity with orgasm, and to continue twice daily for 24-48 hours. This intervention provided consistent improvement (up to 80% better as reported by the patient) in the severity of Case 1's symptoms; thus, the patient now feels able to increase the frequency of his sexual activity from twice a month to four times a month."

...In Case 1, there appears to be a consistent history of symptoms with no organic, psychological, or psychiatric cause identified despite extensive investigation. The history of symptoms described could have fitted with several different etiologies, for example, complex partial seizures, transient arrhythmias, and autoimmune disorder. If this had been the explanation for the individual's symptoms, abnormal results would be anticipated at investigation. As this was not the case, only the history could provide key insights into the likely cause. The symptoms sounded similar to those experienced during cytokine release, for example, when individuals are suffering from viral illness (6), which prompted a trial of NSAID to good effect."

-From: Ashby J, and Goldmeier D. Postorgasm illness syndrome: A spectrum of illnesses. J Sex Med 2010;7:1976-1981.

(6) Descotes J, Vial T. Flu-like syndrome and cytokines. Cytokines in human health: Immunotoxicol Pathol Therap Appl Apr 23, 2007:193-204.

[nanna1]

  IDO functions as an infection sensor. During a viral or bacterial infection, IDO expression changes rapidly to either activate or suppress the innate immune system.
  Serotonin release increases the activity of the innate immune system (NK cells, neutrophils, macrophages, il-2, il-12, il-17).
IDO-kynurenine-aryl hydrocarbon receptor induction suppresses autoimmunity and the innate immune system using Tregs and il-10, etc...

More details can be found here:
New Insights into IDO Biology in Bacterial and Viral Infections (2014)

[Muon]

Yea I just posted something about Diclofenac and the IDO pathway here, just what this paper described: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3014.msg30997#msg30997

[b_jim]

According to a french doctor, all Sibo/dysbiosis start in the mouth.
Mouth MUST be clean to have a clean digest system...

[drop247]

St. John's Wort can work as an antiviral:

Antiviral activity has been reported for influenza, herpes simplex types 1 and 2 (HSV-1, HSV-2), Sindbis virus, poliovirus, retrovirus infection in vitro and in vivo, murine cytomegalovirus, and hepatitis C.Bombardelli 1995, Jacobson 2001, M?ller 2004, Newall 1996, Upton 1997 Hypericin and pseudohypericin exert unique effective antiviral actions, possibly because of nonspecific associations with cellular and viral membranes. Hypericin and pseudohypericin inhibit a variety of encapsulated viruses, including HIV.Upton 1997

https://www.drugs.com/npp/st-john-s-wort.html#Bombardelli.1995

[drop247]

Olive Leaf Extract fight Herpes Type 1.

https://academicjournals.org/journal/AJMR/article-full-text-pdf/E09C2B158944

[nanna1]

Olive Leaf Extract fight Herpes Type 1.

Interesting article drop247. But what I found most interesting is that the anti-viral medication Acyclovir was safer than olive leaf extract.

[nanna1]

"The reactivation of HCMV can also be achieved through stress catecholamines, epinephrine, and norepinephrine, increasing concentrations of cyclic AMP, thus leading to IE enhancer/promoter stimulation (207). Similarly, proinflammatory prostaglandins stimulated in the course of various inflammatory processes also promote viral reactivation through the cyclic AMP pathway (131)." -Immunobiology of Human Cytomegalovirus: from Bench to Bedside (2009)

[Rinat]

Hi all. I finished my niacin and decided to buy excedrin. I took it 2 hours before release. It have never been better!!! I think it is the best treatment for me(but niacin works good too,may be 80%).

[Muon]

Hmmm weird niacin (as in flushing) and ASA exhibit opposite effects regarding PGD2 and metabolites. Must be some other mechanism, perhaps the secondary role of serotonin release?

Niacin-induced ''Flush'' Involves Release of Prostaglandin D2 from Mast Cells and Serotonin from Platelets: Evidence from Human Cells in Vitro and an Animal Model

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niacin#Facial_flushing

[Rinat]

I want to add that i did not combine niacin and excedrine.