Author Topic: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS  (Read 149260 times)

fernab

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #120 on: October 18, 2018, 02:05:43 PM »
Hi, I would only add my experience about vasodilatation and POIS. Since my POIS symptoms became stronger one of them is vasodilatation. When my POIS becomes stronger I also feel that all my vessels all arround the body are bigger.

Not only that, a varicocele appears on my left side testicles( varicocele is a varicose on the testicle).

And even more, I can say without any doubt. That there is a direct relationship between the strength of my POIS symptoms and the size of that varicocele. That is to say. The stronger my POIS symptoms are the bigger my varicocele becomes... And viceversa, the lighter my POIS symptoms are the smaller my varicocele becomes. In the moments I did not felt any POIS symptoms the varicocele disappears completely. I suffer POIS about 5 years ago. Before POIS I never had a varicocele. It just appeared when POIS appeared. At the same time.

So, I would say that in my case. POIS and vasodilatation are strongly related. And that I would like to test if my histamine level in blood is high when varicocele is present or POIS symptoms are stronger.

Scrub

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #121 on: October 18, 2018, 04:12:35 PM »
Hi, I would only add my experience about vasodilatation and POIS. Since my POIS symptoms became stronger one of them is vasodilatation. When my POIS becomes stronger I also feel that all my vessels all arround the body are bigger.

Not only that, a varicocele appears on my left side testicles( varicocele is a varicose on the testicle).

And even more, I can say without any doubt. That there is a direct relationship between the strength of my POIS symptoms and the size of that varicocele. That is to say. The stronger my POIS symptoms are the bigger my varicocele becomes... And viceversa, the lighter my POIS symptoms are the smaller my varicocele becomes. In the moments I did not felt any POIS symptoms the varicocele disappears completely. I suffer POIS about 5 years ago. Before POIS I never had a varicocele. It just appeared when POIS appeared. At the same time.

So, I would say that in my case. POIS and vasodilatation are strongly related. And that I would like to test if my histamine level in blood is high when varicocele is present or POIS symptoms are stronger.

I'm fully convinced that POIS can be explained by one of these possibilities:

-POIS is an expression of MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome)
-POIS is a result of a blood flow issue with vasodilation being the one big problem.
-POIS occurs because there is some glutamate receptor overstimulation.
-POIS happens after levels of acetylcholine in sex arousal gets too high and then too low.

Please, could you share more of your symptoms?

Hopeoneday

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #122 on: October 19, 2018, 04:00:40 AM »
Hi, I would only add my experience about vasodilatation and POIS. Since my POIS symptoms became stronger one of them is vasodilatation. When my POIS becomes stronger I also feel that all my vessels all arround the body are bigger.

Not only that, a varicocele appears on my left side testicles( varicocele is a varicose on the testicle).

And even more, I can say without any doubt. That there is a direct relationship between the strength of my POIS symptoms and the size of that varicocele. That is to say. The stronger my POIS symptoms are the bigger my varicocele becomes... And viceversa, the lighter my POIS symptoms are the smaller my varicocele becomes. In the moments I did not felt any POIS symptoms the varicocele disappears completely. I suffer POIS about 5 years ago. Before POIS I never had a varicocele. It just appeared when POIS appeared. At the same time.

So, I would say that in my case. POIS and vasodilatation are strongly related. And that I would like to test if my histamine level in blood is high when varicocele is present or POIS symptoms are stronger.

Yeah, that i fell on extreme heat when is summer, whole blod wesel get bigger and i am like in pois state ewan withouth ejaculation(like some sort of metabolic isue, body cant balance it self).

And symptomes of pots get biger( the blod is puled on legs down when i get out of bed imidiatly and my heart is strugling because no enough blod), that last months and months, an i fight it with will power, diet etc till it come beter.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 04:02:18 AM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

fernab

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #123 on: October 20, 2018, 01:35:33 PM »

I'm fully convinced that POIS can be explained by one of these possibilities:

-POIS is an expression of MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome)
-POIS is a result of a blood flow issue with vasodilation being the one big problem.
-POIS occurs because there is some glutamate receptor overstimulation.
-POIS happens after levels of acetylcholine in sex arousal gets too high and then too low.

Please, could you share more of your symptoms?

Hi, Scrub

I am suffering POIS since 5 years ago. And throughout these 5 years symptoms do not stay stable. Some oficina them are still here. Other have diminish a lot. And unfortunately, new things (no symptoms) have began to happen since last February. One day on february, I was riding a sleigh and because of this. Things strangely started to change because of that.

Some symptoms are still here since the beginning:
1.- Strong palpitations.
2.- varicocele (especially on left side testicle)
3.- respiratory distress similar to asthma. sometimes when it is accentuated with lung pain when breathing.
4.- skin problems: local glans. eczema Peeling and also by other parts of the body. right eyebrow, dermatitis. also near the left ear, by the scalp. skin peeling sometimes itchy skin. dryness of skin. And more skin problema.
5.- red eyes. ocular dryness.blepharitis
6.- Running nose.
7.- change of tone of voice. as a kind of hoarseness.
8.- insomnia.
9.- a lot of digestive problems. diarrhea mucus in stool Acute weight loss. I have almost lost 10 kilos

And maybe some more I don't remember right now....

About vasodilatation, I have the suspect that histamine could be the cause or part of the cause at least. since sometimes I have taken antihistamines, I have noticed some improvement and even sleep better....

swell

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #124 on: October 20, 2018, 04:22:18 PM »
I think nanna1 id'd vasodilation as the issue also.  Though I scratch my head on that since I view my issues in terms of vasoconstriction being the problem.  Help me understand, I get the exact symptoms of a pinched nerve like burning / tingling sensation, wouldn't that be vasoconstriction?
 
-POIS is a result of a blood flow issue with vasodilation being the one big problem.
POIS Free, 2+ yrs (occasional/predictive lapses)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

Vandemolen

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #125 on: October 29, 2018, 08:49:46 AM »
Preventing Nocturnal Emissions POIS
--under construction--
  Since sleep typically last for 8 hours, one strategy could be to take supplements that have a long half-life exceeding 8 hours. Here is a list of beneficial supplements with long half-lives:
-vitamin D3, half-life=360hrs
-celecoxib, 11hrs
-allopurinol, 15hrs
-vitamin B12, 144hrs
-conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), >18hrs
-omega-3, 48hrs
-magnesium threonate
-selenomethionine
-N-acetylcysteine

During sleep testosterone levels rise and shift the body into an aroused state (through enhanced D2-dopamine receptor signalling). Strategies that suppress glutamate-NMDA signaling and/or enhance GABA signaling can negate the arousal effect of testosterone.
NMDA inhibitors:
-magnesium threonate, magnesium gluconate

This post is intended to facilitate discussion, not to endorse treatment.
For a lot POIS-patients POIS kick in the morning after. After sexual activity it’s hard to fall asleep. What if at POIS-patients the testosterone level will not rise during sleep?
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

demografx

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #126 on: October 29, 2018, 07:33:41 PM »
Preventing Nocturnal Emissions POIS
--under construction--
  Since sleep typically last for 8 hours, one strategy could be to take supplements that have a long half-life exceeding 8 hours. Here is a list of beneficial supplements with long half-lives:
-vitamin D3, half-life=360hrs
-celecoxib, 11hrs
-allopurinol, 15hrs
-vitamin B12, 144hrs
-conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), >18hrs
-omega-3, 48hrs
-magnesium threonate
-selenomethionine
-N-acetylcysteine

During sleep testosterone levels rise and shift the body into an aroused state (through enhanced D2-dopamine receptor signalling). Strategies that suppress glutamate-NMDA signaling and/or enhance GABA signaling can negate the arousal effect of testosterone.
NMDA inhibitors:
-magnesium threonate, magnesium gluconate

This post is intended to facilitate discussion, not to endorse treatment.
For a lot POIS-patients POIS kick in the morning after. After sexual activity it’s hard to fall asleep. What if at POIS-patients the testosterone level will not rise during sleep?

Just FYI, my endocrinologist told me to take my testosterone *at night* for best results.


10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Vandemolen

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #127 on: October 29, 2018, 08:27:57 PM »
Preventing Nocturnal Emissions POIS
--under construction--
  Since sleep typically last for 8 hours, one strategy could be to take supplements that have a long half-life exceeding 8 hours. Here is a list of beneficial supplements with long half-lives:
-vitamin D3, half-life=360hrs
-celecoxib, 11hrs
-allopurinol, 15hrs
-vitamin B12, 144hrs
-conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), >18hrs
-omega-3, 48hrs
-magnesium threonate
-selenomethionine
-N-acetylcysteine

During sleep testosterone levels rise and shift the body into an aroused state (through enhanced D2-dopamine receptor signalling). Strategies that suppress glutamate-NMDA signaling and/or enhance GABA signaling can negate the arousal effect of testosterone.
NMDA inhibitors:
-magnesium threonate, magnesium gluconate

This post is intended to facilitate discussion, not to endorse treatment.
For a lot POIS-patients POIS kick in the morning after. After sexual activity it’s hard to fall asleep. What if at POIS-patients the testosterone level will not rise during sleep?

Just FYI, my endocrinologist told me to take my testosterone *at night* for best results.
Thanks. I take the Clomid in the morning. That’s because it gives me hot flushes. And then hopefully I don’t get those when I go to sleep. But I will ask my doctor if it’s ok to take and extra Clomid pill on the night I am sexually active. I only take 25mg. The lowest is 50 mg. So I have to break the pill in two.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #128 on: December 29, 2018, 08:05:22 PM »
Hi All,

  I was asked by Nas to share a few thoughts on a mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS) hypothesis of POIS. I'm not an expert on mast cells, but I will give my opinion. I don't want to tell anyone else how to think, but my approach to evaluating hypotheses is to test them. And "testing a hypothesis" often means trying to prove it wrong. If I have an idea, I will create a model/hypothesis and then try to prove my own model false (or make the hypothesis fail under some special condition). This process usually allows me to learn something that results in a better hypothesis/model. I say this because I do not want it to seem like I am being critical of any person that is investigating mast cell related causes of POIS. Critical testing is just my general approach to any scientific question. Hopefully something here is useful in refining mast cell related models of POIS.

Mast cells have two main immune functions:
1. chemotaxis (communicating with systemic immune system and bringing them to the site of a problem)
2. fluid removal (swelling, sweating, sneezing, diarrhea, crying, swelling)

  In my opinion, mast cells perform normal and beneficial roles in helping POIS patients resolve illness. In healthy people, mast cells detect harmful substances, induce chemotaxis of immune cells and facilitate the removal of those harmful substances through bodily fluids. The following diagram is slightly over simplified but still useful for this discussion. A more detailed explanation of the immune response can be found here (video1, video2).
Note that if a pathogen is not contained by the systemic immune response, then mast cells and macrophages continue to activate (chemotaxis) in a loop/cycle. If the immune system is unsuccessful at controlling the pathogen, this cycle of mast (or macrophages) activation does not end. There may exist a POISer who also has a mast cell disorder as a second disease. But I think that POIS patients in general do not have mast cell disorders for some of the following reasons:

  The 1st reason that MCAS seems unlikely to cause POIS is that the medical test of mast cell disorders from POISers are all normal.
--5 of us have normal trypase (mast cell activation syndrome) levels (BluesBrother, nanna1, Vandemolen, Muon, Muon's brother).
--2 of us have normal histamine levels (nanna1 tested histamine, Muon tested N-methyl-histamine).
...
--3 of us show normal IgE (allergy) levels (aswinpras06, certainlypois2, Vandemolen)
My MCAS test are found here: 13. Mast cell activation syndrome and mastocytosis:

  The 2nd reason is that sleep helps recovery from POIS. The sleep-POIS connection is important because adequate sleep increases immune system function, whereas sleep deprivation suppresses immune system function. This is a strong indicator that the immune system is involved with helping us recover from a POIS state even while it is creating symptoms.

  The 3rd reason is that no one has found immunoglubin E (IgE antibodies) related to semen in POIS patients. Both the Waldinger group and the Jiang (Ref) group failed to find any connection between semen related IgE and POIS. Also, three POIScenter members report normal IgE levels (see post). These observations limit the potential triggers for MCAS.

  The 4th reason is that the symptoms of POIS do not match MCAS. For example, anaphylaxis, hives and angioedema are common symptoms of mast cell related illnesses such as mastocytosis and MCAS. Even if every POISer doesn't experience these symptoms, if MCAS was associated with POIS, I would expect these symptoms to be more common. But so far I haven't heard of anyone with POIS reporting orgasm induced anaphylaxis or angioedema. None of the POIS papers discuss these symptoms in POIS patients. One paper mentions hive like symptoms in POIS patients, but this was a small minority. And it appears that these patients can have hives even without an orgasm event.
The Waldinger symptom clusters (Ref):

The Waldinger diagnostic criteria (Ref):

Even if a person does have symptoms similar to MCAS, this does not mean that mast cells are involved. Other immune cells, like M1 macrophages, can also produce MCAS-like symptoms without releasing tryptase.
 Moreover, the documented/published symptoms of POIS are much more similar to the symptoms of an influenza viral infection (flu) than they are to MCAS. Like POIS, sleep, stress reduction and vitamins also help people recover from the flu. With the flu, macrophages and mast cells activate to start a systemic immune response (chemotaxis) that fights the flu virus, and then these cells stablize once the virus has been contained.
 However, there is one important difference between POIS and the flu. Several POISers have noted a left-right asymmetry in POIS symptoms, meaning that some of their symmptoms occur more on one side of the body than the other side. There are several discussions on the POIScenter forum about Bell's palsy, myasthenia gravis and hemicrania continua like symptoms related to POIS. If POIS has a left-right asymmetry in some POIS patients then the cause of POIS should be localized to a specific part of the body. But mast cell are not localized to any specific part of the body. Every tissue in the body has mast cells. So mast cells cannot cause asymmetric symptoms. But a localized pathogen can activate immune cells asymmetrically.

  The 5th reason is that there are other more likely explainations for the inflammation. For example, M1 macrophages can produce symptoms very similar to mast cell degranulation (including chemotaxis) without releasing tryptase. This is consistent with the fact that 5 POISers have tested negative for tryptase (see post).
Figure from: Macrophage imbalance (M1 vs. M2) and upregulation of mast cells in wall of ruptured human cerebral aneurysms: Preliminary results (D Hasan, et. al., 2012)
  Also, a mast cell disorder implies that there is no legitimate or useful reason for mast cells to activate (induce chemotaxis and fluid removal), but a harmful pathogen is a legitimate reason for chemotaxis. In order to demonstrate that there is a mast cell disorder causing POIS, you would have to rule-out viruses as a cause. Because as long as viruses are replicating in the body, immune cell activation is the correct immune response. And this immune activation is helpful in correcting the problem, even if the symptoms are undesirable.

Here are a few ideas that may or may not be true/useful:
  • In terms of immune cells I think that low NK cells or low neutrophils could make symptoms of POIS worse.
  • I think high epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) could make symptoms of POIS worse.
  • Increased heart rate and blood pressure caused by adrenaline (or histamine) could make symptoms of POIS worse.
  • Beta-herpes infections (HHV-5, HHV-6, endothelial viruses) could make symptoms worse.
  • Blood vessels appear to play some role in some POIS patients
  • MCAS and POIS could have a common cause, but this does not mean that one causes the other
These articles may also help further the discussion:
Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome: A Review (2018)
Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome: What do we know so far? (2018)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 10:18:56 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Nas

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #129 on: December 29, 2018, 10:48:25 PM »
Ok thanks Nanna for your 2 cents on this matter I will try to answer many of your points and by that perhaps give you a better understanding of the Mast Cell theory which I recently started to believe in.

So first of all I really hoped that you wouldn't connect your Herpes theory and try and make a fresh theory about Mast Cells' involvement, but unfortunately you didn't so your opinion is unfortunately very biast.

Quote
  In my opinion, mast cells perform normal and beneficial roles in helping POIS patients resolve illness. In healthy people, mast cells detect harmful substances, induce chemotaxis of immune cells and facilitate the removal of those harmful substances through bodily fluids. The following diagram is slightly over simplified but still useful for this discussion. A more detailed explanation of the immune response can be found here (video1, video2).

So its clear here that you are thinking in term of fighting off infection, but my theory suggests that it's an activation caused by either semen or orgasm. When Mast Cells are activated without proper IgE mediation they release inflammatory mediators that are usually responsible for POIS symptoms.

Quote
The 1st reason that MCAS seems like an unlikely cause of POIS is that the medical test of mast cell disorders from POISers are all normal.

That is not entirely true Muon also showed increase in 11-beta-PgdF2a. Tryptase is never a good determiner of MCAS. If we would want to completely rule out MCAS we'd need complete test of major Mast Cell mediators. IgE is based on the proposal that POIS is semen allergy which is something Waldinger himself mentioned to not be the case.

Quote
The 2nd reason is that sleep helps recovery from POIS. The sleep-POIS connection is important because adequate sleep increases immune system function, whereas sleep deprivation suppresses immune system function. This is a strong indicator that the immune system is involved with helping us recover from a POIS state even while it is creating symptoms.

You are thinking generally in terms of the immune system fighting off infection. I do not propose that, instead, I suggest that sleep helps in the recovery process of dead neurons after neuroinflammation caused by PgD2 release, plus as it is very clear in POIS, symptoms get better in time until the next orgasm session. I honestly don't know if we have auto-immune reaction towards semen which then it means that the immune system got rid of semen or that it's pure Mast Cell Activation in which inflammation heals up after Mast Cells calm down. But generally speaking Mast Cells calm down after a trigger attack.

Quote

  The 3rd reason is that no one has found immunoglubin E (IgE antibodies) related to semen in POIS patients. Both the Waldinger group and the Jiang (Ref) group failed to find any connection between semen related IgE and POIS. This observation limits the role of mast cells in POIS to being activated by other cells.


MCAS does not require IgE trigger.

Quote
The 4th reason is that the symptoms of POIS do not match MCAS. For example, anaphylaxis, hives and angioedema are common symptoms of mast cell related illnesses such as mastocytosis and MCAS. Even if every POISer doesn't experience these symptoms, if MCAS was associated with POIS, I would expect these to be common symptoms. But so far I haven't heard of anyone with POIS reporting orgasm induced anaphylaxis or angioedema. None of the POIS papers discuss these symptoms in POIS patients. One paper mentions hive like symptoms in POIS patients, but this was a small minority. And it appears that these patients can have hives even without an orgasm event.

Ok well similarities outweigh differences. So anaphylaxis is more common with mastocytosis than MCAS, you are correct however that it is rare for a POISer to have anaphylaxis. There is one patient during desensitization who had a shock and required two Epinephrine shots, and according to Muon that cured him of POIS for some reason? But anyways, just because there is no anaphylaxis it doesn't mean that MC aren't involved. When it comes to hives Vandermolen ( I think ) said he has hives. Even if its rare for POISers it is still an indicator for MC involvement. I propose that in the case of POIS each patient has Mast Cell Activation in particular parts of his body that might be different than another. The fact that all the cascade of POIS symptoms are usual MCAS symptoms and are also places where Mast Cells reside is actually a great indicator for the connection between the two diseases. The rarity of anaphylaxis and angioedema could be because that POIS only triggeres certain regions in the body and not others, notably the CNS. Perhaps it can be said that it is not as systematic as MCAS, rather localized.

Quote
Other immune cells, like M1 macrophages, can also produce MCAS-like symptoms without releasing tryptase.

Good point, that's not however a disprove of Mast Cell's role rather a mechanism that is seen in Mast Cells Disease sufferers, wherein the release of PgD2 activates the microglia leading to neuroinflammation and thus neurodegradation.

Quote
Moreover, the documented/published symptoms of POIS are much more similar to the symptoms of an influenza virus infection (flu) than they are to MCAS. Like POIS, sleep, stress reduction and vitamins also helps people recover from the flu. With the flu, macrophages and mast cells activate to start a systemic immune response (chemotaxis) that fights the flu virus, and then these cells stablize once the virus has been contained.

This is very subjective Nanna, I don't personally have flu like symptoms? People suffering from MCAS also report that sleep, stress reduction and vitamins help them.

Quote
However, there is one important difference between POIS and the flu. Several POISers have noted a left-right asymmetry in POIS symptoms, meaning that some of their symmptoms occur more on one side of the body than the other side. There are several discussions on the POIScenter forum about Bell's palsy and hemicrania continua like symptoms related to POIS. If POIS has a left-right asymmetry in some POIS patients then the cause of POIS must be localized to a specific part of the body. But mast cell are not localized to any specific part of the body. Every tissue in the body has mast cells. So mast cells cannot cause asymmetric symptoms. But a localized pathogen can activate immune cells asymmetrically.


This is perhaps your best point in this discussion, I have no idea how to explain the left-right asymmetry. Maybe there could be a Mast Cell explanation to that? I still don't know it. Bell's palsy could be related to neuroinflammation.

Quote
  The 5th reason is that there are other more likely explainations for the inflammation. For example, M1 macrophages can produce symptoms very similar to mast cell degranulation (including chemotaxis) without releasing tryptase. This is consistent with the fact that 5 POISers have tested negative for tryptase (see post).

Brain Macrophages like Microglia and Astrocytes are also involved in neuropsychiatric symptoms of MCAS. Tryptase is not a determiner of MCAS alone. Not while symptoms are localized in specific places.

Thanks again Nanna, if any of my points are wrong please tell. I feel that this as close as I can get when it comes to explaining POIS. I even asked two rare diseases doctors recently and they both agreed that the role of Mast Cells should investigated when it comes to POIS.
All in all I just want to find a solution to this demn thing,I don't care who's right or who's wrong I just care about going in the right direction when it comes solving POIS and I find these discussions to be perhaps helpful.

Merry Christmas and have a happy new year.

Edit: References:

1- "Disorders manifested by mast cell activation encompass a broad variety of diseases that can range from very rare to very common. Mast cell activation can be caused by both IgE-mediated and non?IgE-mediated triggers."
2- Muon's elevated 11Beta-Prostaglandin F2 Alpha (24h urine)
3- "POIS is not associated with increased total serum IgE concentrations."
4- "Experimental and clinical studies provide evidence that pharmacological sleep promotion in rodents and treatment of sleep disorders in humans improves functional outcome following stroke."
5- Prostaglandin D2-mediated microglia/astrocyte interaction enhances astrogliosis and demyelination in twitcher.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 12:20:33 PM by Nas »

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #130 on: December 31, 2018, 01:51:30 PM »
Hi Nas,

  Great reply! I can tell you have thought a lot about MCAS and are doing good work in investigating it. You may notice that in my previous post I only refered to medical data from POISers, published POIS papers, POIScenter post and data from healthy controls. I did not reference science papers or websites discussing potential theories that could be related to POIS, and I did not reference my own personal hypotheses.
There is available data on the Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results thread related to these parameters:
  • immune cells (T-cells, NK cells, Neutrophils, mast cells, and many other white blood cell parameters)
  • neurotransmitters (norepinephrine, histamine, serotonin...)
  • infections (viral, bacterial, fungal)
  • autoimmune antibodies (DNA, lupus, etc...)
  • allergy (IgE, celiac disease, skin prick test, etc...)
  • hormones (testosterone, estrogen, etc...)
  • and more...
  There is also POISer medical data found in published papers from the research groups of Waldinger, Jiang, Hellstrom, Goldmeier and others, in addition to orgasm data from healthy people. I used standard ideas from the field of immunology to interpret this data, and the links to the videos give a good explanation of immunology concepts.
A more detailed explanation of the immune response can be found here (video1, video2).

  In the previous post, I tested the hypothesis of MCAS involvement in POIS using this POISer medical data (not theories expressed on the forums). I believe that testing the many POIS theories against POISer data and using process-of-elimination to rule out hypotheses will ultimately lead to a better understanding and the development of evidence-based treatments. This is a type of open-source science that could be much faster at producing results.

  The 5 reasons that I give for not associating MCAS with POIS come from all of the available POISer medical data that I am aware of.
  The 1st reason that MCAS seems unlikely to cause POIS is that the medical test of mast cell disorders from POISers are all normal.
  The 2nd reason is that sleep helps recovery from POIS.
  The 3rd reason is that no one has found immunoglubin E (IgE antibodies) related to semen in POIS patients.
  The 4th reason is that the symptoms of POIS do not match MCAS.
  The 5th reason is that there are other more likely explainations for the inflammation.
With that said, my understanding of the available data will be incomplete. Also, if new medical data is published or posted, there is still the possibility that these reasons could be disproved. But I think the only way to disprove these reasons is with medical data.

  I do not have a fixed idea or theory of POIS that I believe in. As new medical data becomes available, my understanding changes. Before I post anything to the Forum, I always check the latest (published and forum) POIS medical data, and if there is anything in the data that is not consistent with my understanding, I change my thinking and opinions to fit the data.

  As a matter of principle, I try not to justify any idea or hypothesis using data. Instead, it seems more helpful to use POISer medical data and standard ideas from immunology to create hypotheses and also test (try to disprove) old hypotheses using newer POISer medical data. I only post an idea if I am unable to disprove it myself. The hope is that someone else will test/disprove the idea using data that I do not have, and by process-of-elimination rule out the hypotheses. This could allow the community to focus on improving the collective understanding and developing evidence-based treatments. But this approach is a personal preference and not necessarily the best way.
  I have been looking at your post on Parameter input from members for ideas on which test could rule out certain potential causes of POIS. My strategy is to do process of elimination to rule out certain causes. I do not want to prove the correct cause. I will rather try to disprove the wrong causes.

  Some may argue that much of the POISer data is incomplete, biased, spurious or unreliable. And this is a valid argument. So I try to take this into account, but biases from the data can still affect my opinions. Also, I have a personal preference for using standard (or textbook) immunology principles for interpreting the medical data. However, some scientist prefer to use newer experimental ideas of immunology. Both ways are valid as long as the resulting hypotheses can be tested.
  I hope this explains any bias that I may have in testing the MCAS hypothesis and why I give these 5 reasons for not associating MCAS with POIS. Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I'm sure mast cells play some role as part of the immune system. Keep up your good work in investigating POIS!

Merry Christmas and have a happy new year.
Thanks Nas! The same to you. Have a blessed and wonderful year! :)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 05:24:22 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Nas

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #131 on: December 31, 2018, 06:35:41 PM »
Thanks Nas! The same to you. Have a blessed and wonderful year! :)
Thanks again Nanna! You too! :)

Nas

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #132 on: January 01, 2019, 06:04:47 PM »
Hi, I would only add my experience about vasodilatation and POIS. Since my POIS symptoms became stronger one of them is vasodilatation. When my POIS becomes stronger I also feel that all my vessels all arround the body are bigger.

Not only that, a varicocele appears on my left side testicles( varicocele is a varicose on the testicle).

And even more, I can say without any doubt. That there is a direct relationship between the strength of my POIS symptoms and the size of that varicocele. That is to say. The stronger my POIS symptoms are the bigger my varicocele becomes... And viceversa, the lighter my POIS symptoms are the smaller my varicocele becomes. In the moments I did not felt any POIS symptoms the varicocele disappears completely. I suffer POIS about 5 years ago. Before POIS I never had a varicocele. It just appeared when POIS appeared. At the same time.

So, I would say that in my case. POIS and vasodilatation are strongly related. And that I would like to test if my histamine level in blood is high when varicocele is present or POIS symptoms are stronger.

I'm fully convinced that POIS can be explained by one of these possibilities:

-POIS is an expression of MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome)
-POIS is a result of a blood flow issue with vasodilation being the one big problem.
-POIS occurs because there is some glutamate receptor overstimulation.
-POIS happens after levels of acetylcholine in sex arousal gets too high and then too low.

Please, could you share more of your symptoms?
I'm generally thinking that there is an over stimulated hormone associated with sex that both triggers Mast Cells and causes PE. Any suggestions on what can it be?

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #133 on: January 01, 2019, 10:43:45 PM »
I'm generally thinking that there is an over stimulated hormone associated with sex that both triggers Mast Cells and causes PE. Any suggestions on what can it be?
Glutamate and acetylcholine both have the ability to stimulate the production of nitric oxide (NO). NO is responsible for vasodilation in the penis (erection) and the bodybuilder veins (exercise pump). NO has hormone-like signaling properties in the cardiovascular system. Prostaglandins like PGE2 is another option. Just throwing out ideas. There could be better ideas.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 12:11:36 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Muon

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #134 on: January 11, 2019, 11:31:08 AM »
Hi Nana1 thanks a lot.
Because of this link (post on botom) here and ragarding to symptomes i conect this posible viral couse to some of us. VAGUS nerve palsy coused by viral infections is rare. I hawe sypmtomes of dysphonia, dysphagia and i found this conection.

See - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11551239

Interesting paper HOD.

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #135 on: January 22, 2019, 01:41:08 AM »
   "Here, we demonstrate that a highly stressful event in the absence of systemic inflammation, as observed in patients with acute myocardial infarction, leads to the development of an active HCMV infection in latently infected patients.

Elucidating the molecular mechanism of virus activation, we could show that catecholamines directly stimulate the HCMV immediate-early (IE) enhancer/promoter in monocytic cells via beta-2 adrenergic receptors...

...Epinephrine also enhanced HCMV gene expression in infected THP-1 cells...

...These data suggest that HCMV, like HSV-1 and VZV, can be (re)activated under stress conditions."

-A novel link between stress and human cytomegalovirus (HCMV) infection: sympathetic hyperactivity stimulates HCMV activation (S Prosch, et al., 2000)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 08:11:02 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Hopeoneday

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #136 on: January 22, 2019, 07:59:31 AM »
That lead me to thik that in recowered fase, contsant and enormes amount of cronic
stress, play big part in pois, always in inflamatory state.
Nana, i agre here. But i also think that genetic factor play in BIG
(MAYBE ALL), from there all
those stresors ,inflamatory "chemicals" has been realesing in body constantly,
on arosaul, sex X20 more then on normall response.
If enzyms feilure is there, and i reposted recently some genetics test,
body is unable to regulate or produce in properly whey
some neurotransmiters and hormones.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 08:18:20 AM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

Muon

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #137 on: January 22, 2019, 09:45:53 AM »
   "Elucidating the molecular mechanism of virus activation, we could show that catecholamines directly stimulate the HCMV immediate-early (IE) enhancer/promoter in monocytic cells via beta-2 adrenergic receptors...
The β2AR is an interesting target. The problem however is finding a highly selective β2AR antagonist. I did a quick search but can't find any aside from experimental ones. Some relative selectivities are depicted below to give people an idea:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1576008/table/tbl2/?report=objectonly

The selectivity of β-adrenoceptor antagonists at the human β1, β2 and β3 adrenoceptors

The same author wrote a similar article about β-adrenoceptor agonists, maybe not relevant but the almost identical title could confuse people:
The selectivity of β-adrenoceptor agonists at human β1-, β2- and β3-adrenoceptors
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:01:02 AM by Muon »

Nas

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #138 on: January 22, 2019, 10:02:31 AM »
   "Elucidating the molecular mechanism of virus activation, we could show that catecholamines directly stimulate the HCMV immediate-early (IE) enhancer/promoter in monocytic cells via beta-2 adrenergic receptors...
The β2AR is an interesting target. The problem however is finding a highly selective β2AR antagonist. I did a quick search but can't find any aside from experimental ones. Some selectivities are depicted below to give people an idea:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1576008/table/tbl2/?report=objectonly

The selectivity of β-adrenoceptor antagonists at the human β1, β2 and β3 adrenoceptors
The propanolol seems nice. However I did try it many times without any seeming benefit. Infact it could worsen POTS.

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #139 on: January 24, 2019, 01:45:07 PM »
The propranolol seems nice. However I did try it many times without any seeming benefit. In fact it could worsen POTS.
  I could be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that norepinephrine had a higher affinity for alpha receptors and epinephrine had a greater affinity for beta receptors. Herpes simplex viruses seem to prefer autonomic neurons expressing alpha-2 adrenergic receptors. You may want to get virus tested before experimenting alpha/beta inhibitors.
  "An increase in cAMP production has been shown to reactivate HSV-1 from quiescence in embryonic superior cervical ganglia (SCG) neurons (51). The adenylate cyclase enzymes are optimally stimulated by AR β-2 treated with 100 nM epinephrine (52). ...the increase in HSV-1 DNA replication at 0.01 μM and 0.1 μM of epinephrine most likely represents stimulation of AR β-2 receptors, while the increase in HSV-1 DNA replication at 10 μM epinephrine is a result of stimulation of AR α-2 receptors. ...these effects occurred in sympathetic neurons, rather than sensory neurons, further implicating the autonomic nervous system in HSV pathogenesis."
-Stress Hormones Epinephrine and Corticosterone Selectively Modulate HSV-1 and HSV-2 Productive Infection in Adult Sympathetic, but not Sensory, Neurons (AM Ives, AS Bertke, 2017)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 02:35:41 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/