Author Topic: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS  (Read 149197 times)

Bombardier

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #100 on: August 15, 2018, 08:16:29 AM »
Hearkening back to an earlier topic in this thread, i find it rather interesting that Nanna highlighted the Trigeminal Nerve as a possible source of our problems. My eyes get inflamed for days after climax or a hot shower, which only disappears with anti-inflammatory eye drops provided by my optician. By that same token, I also get burning pain and strange, almost electricity-like sensations all over my face. Perhaps it's all related?

Regardless, I'm planning on replicating Nanna's Excedrin trial sometime soon. Abstinence has worked wonders for me, but it might cause problems in the future.

swell

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #101 on: August 16, 2018, 04:40:32 PM »
Yes its all related, its classic POIS symptoms, eyes and face/skin.  I get some kind of growth on the inside of eyelids which irritate the heck out of me and the sensations all over face are the nerve endings in a panicky, dying or trying to regenerate state, kind of like peripheral neuropathy. 

Hearkening back to an earlier topic in this thread, i find it rather interesting that Nanna highlighted the Trigeminal Nerve as a possible source of our problems. My eyes get inflamed for days after climax or a hot shower, which only disappears with anti-inflammatory eye drops provided by my optician. By that same token, I also get burning pain and strange, almost electricity-like sensations all over my face. Perhaps it's all related?

Regardless, I'm planning on replicating Nanna's Excedrin trial sometime soon. Abstinence has worked wonders for me, but it might cause problems in the future.
POIS Free, 2+ yrs (occasional/predictive lapses)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

swell

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #102 on: August 16, 2018, 04:51:09 PM »
So I am now pretty certain that my POIS is due to some virus.  Nanna1 suggested somewhere that sugar and lycine is a food for these viruses.  The problem is that since birth I am addicted to sweets.  I can sacrifice anything in the world except sweets.  I am still on the low side of weight so dont need to worry on sugar, except this week I confirmed that sugar is the culprit.

My stack pretty much cured my POIS symptoms.  As a test I held back on lemon tarts that I have been eating for time immemorial.  But yesterday on my 5th day of POIS, I caved in, and binged on lemon tarts like a pig, and my POIS symptoms have re-emerged within 24 hrs on 6th day.

QUESTION:    I have replaced table sugar with Stevia which was easy to do.  But I cannot manage the sugary tarts I eat.  So to contend with whatever my situation is, IS THERE A CHEMICAL COMPOUND THAT I CAN TAKE ON AS NEED BASIS TO NEUTRALIZE SUGAR as soon I injest any sweets? 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 04:56:07 PM by swell »
POIS Free, 2+ yrs (occasional/predictive lapses)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

Nas

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #103 on: August 17, 2018, 05:42:54 AM »
So I am now pretty certain that my POIS is due to some virus.  Nanna1 suggested somewhere that sugar and lycine is a food for these viruses.  The problem is that since birth I am addicted to sweets.  I can sacrifice anything in the world except sweets.  I am still on the low side of weight so dont need to worry on sugar, except this week I confirmed that sugar is the culprit.

My stack pretty much cured my POIS symptoms.  As a test I held back on lemon tarts that I have been eating for time immemorial.  But yesterday on my 5th day of POIS, I caved in, and binged on lemon tarts like a pig, and my POIS symptoms have re-emerged within 24 hrs on 6th day.

QUESTION:    I have replaced table sugar with Stevia which was easy to do.  But I cannot manage the sugary tarts I eat.  So to contend with whatever my situation is, IS THERE A CHEMICAL COMPOUND THAT I CAN TAKE ON AS NEED BASIS TO NEUTRALIZE SUGAR as soon I injest any sweets? 

I'm not a sugar person at all and usually a small cake sets me off for the entire day with out the need to crave more. In fact I can't drink anything sweet like tea or soda without accompanying it with a salty snack ( I'm a huge savory person ). Zero sugar can also mean an anti-inflammatory diet, many here in this forum mentioned huge improvement with a zero sugar diet.
Any ways, you can try diabetes medications that can increase insulin levels. Try a 1mg glimepiride before eating sugary foods or drinks.

b_jim

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #104 on: August 17, 2018, 09:20:31 AM »
Sugar increase my Pois symptoms too and I stopped it 10 years ago. Severe diet during 2-3 years. Now, I eat sugar sometimes.

Bur i don't think it's caused by a virus or something.

I think we have a problem in our metabolism after ejaculation : something is too high or too low maybe both.

Sugar decreases testosterone (80g of glucose = -25% testosterone says studies).
Sugar activates dopamine system.

Sugar may increase inflammation but is Pois an inflammation problem ? I can't say.

Taurine = Anti-Pois

Nas

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #105 on: August 17, 2018, 09:55:17 AM »
Sugar may increase inflammation but is Pois an inflammation problem ? I can't say.

If there is anything I'm sure of, it's that, yes, POIS is an inflammation problem.

b_jim

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #106 on: August 17, 2018, 12:03:10 PM »
I use taurine and low sugar diet as main cure for my pois.
Taurine has an anti-inflamatory effect on interleukin markers (IL-10) but not on general markers like CRP or TNF-alpha.

I tried several time NSAI (ibuprofen i think) or paracetamol without change.

The symptom that I consider as possible proof of inflammation is hot flashes after ejaculation. I have sugar hours before or after ejaculation, i feel hot flashes. Sugar plays a role of "gas" in Pois hot feeling and cuting the gas makes the duration of Pois shorter.

Taurine and fish (especially fresh cooked salmon?!)taken just before or just after ejaculation seems to cut the hot flashes.


So it is possible that Pois is a inflammation reaction and then trigger effects on neurotransmitters decreasing dopamine/serotonine causing symptoms like low concentration (Dopamine) bad mood/insomnia (serotonine).

But on the contrary, it's possible orgasm/ejaculation causes itself neurotransmitters unbalance and triggers "inflammation-like" or "allergy-like" symptoms by activation of brain area (hypothalamus).

How to know ? that's why i said "no markers, no proof" :)

Taurine = Anti-Pois

b_jim

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #107 on: August 17, 2018, 12:15:06 PM »
My Pois didn't start with flu-like symptoms, hot feelings and allergy-like symptoms.
It came AFTER !

My Pois came slowly with trouble of concentration and then with flu-like later.

And this point makes me think Inflammation is not Primary but secondary. It's a consequence not the first cause, the first trigger.

I have small episode of depression since hot temperature of this summer.
I worked out, i probably lost my mg by perspiration and I can't produce enough serotonin (maybe at 16/17 hours) and the melatonin (20/21 hours). I have concentration problem like in Pois but not "Pois fever".
The magnesium diet I follow helps a lot.
 
Taurine = Anti-Pois

Nas

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #108 on: August 17, 2018, 12:29:27 PM »
So it is possible that Pois is a inflammation reaction and then trigger effects on neurotransmitters decreasing dopamine/serotonine causing symptoms like low concentration (Dopamine) bad mood/insomnia (serotonine).

But on the contrary, it's possible orgasm/ejaculation causes itself neurotransmitters unbalance and triggers "inflammation-like" or "allergy-like" symptoms by activation of brain area (hypothalamus).

How to know ? that's why i said "no markers, no proof" :)

Orgasm is a natural process, that is usually benefitial to mental health, so I don't think that it by it self is the issue. I think as you said inflammation causes the slow down of brain neurotransmitters, especially when it comes to dopamine and serotonin. And parameters until now point in the inflammation direction. Muon's test results show that his th1/th2 levels are elevated.

b_jim

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #109 on: August 17, 2018, 02:12:42 PM »
Lot of things are natural process and some people have issue with them. 
Taurine = Anti-Pois

b_jim

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #110 on: August 20, 2018, 10:01:56 AM »
Somobody told about Eosinophilia–myalgia syndrome which is a syndrom of high tryptophan. I found this very interesting, especlly list of symptoms.
It's a way to explain myalgias and infllamation symptoms.

How to connect this to Pois, I don't know.


Eosinophilia–myalgia syndrome is an increased level of tryptophan in blood. [Need more details]

We suppose orgasm is linked to neurotranmitters release like serotonine.
We know our ejaculation is a "loss" of serotonine, melatonin and thyrotropin releasing hormone.

Can we imagine a retro-controle of tryptophan by orgasm, increasing its level ?

Furthemore, it seems sugar increase symptoms. There is a competition between several amino-acids with tryptophan and sugar helps tryptophan release.


« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 10:09:42 AM by b_jim »
Taurine = Anti-Pois

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #111 on: August 22, 2018, 02:56:25 PM »
Hi b_jim,

Glucose (sugar) is heavily consumed by some herpes viruses during reproduction (Ref1, Ref2). From my understanding, sugar doesn't trigger reactivation of the virus, it just helps it grow and replicate more.
figure from "Divergent effects of human cytomegalovirus and herpes simplex virus-1 on cellular metabolism"

Taurine is depleted in herpes infected cells:
Taurine, an amino acid analog involved in osmoregulation and cell volume control [32], is not an obvious precursor metabolite, but was nevertheless decreased 4-fold by HCMV infection. - Dynamics of the cellular metabolome during human cytomegalovirus infection

"Notably depleted compounds included glycine betaine (TMG), taurine, creatine, and NAD+. The conserved decrease in the osmolyte, taurine, in both HCMV and HSV-1 likely reflects a host cell response to virus-induced increases in cell volume." - Divergent Effects of Human Cytomegalovirus and Herpes Simplex Virus-1 on Cellular Metabolism

Jimmy posted a podcast interview of Dr. Michael Van ElZakker where he discusses the following topics:
  • vagus nerve and trigeminal nerve
  • chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS)
  • viruses and bacteria
  • autoinflammatory syndrome
  • glial cells and mast cells
  • prostaglandins and cytokines
  • innate immune system
  Dr. Van ElZakker's explanations are very clear. I think that a proper understanding of his hypothesis/work can help move our understanding of POIS forward. The podcast can be found here Interview of Harvard neuroscientist Dr. Michael Van ElZakker: CFS & Vagus
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 07:44:36 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

swell

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #112 on: September 23, 2018, 08:57:16 PM »
Hello nanna1 you write that "glucose is heavily consumed by herpes viruses during reproduction ... it helps it grow and replicate more".  You also cite: "Notably depleted compounds included glycine betaine (TMG), taurine, creatine, and NAD+"   

Are you saying that: 1. Glycine 2. Betaine, 3. Taurine, 4. Creatine, 5. NAD+ are GOOD or or are they BAD to keep Herpes in check during pois?

Also if anyone knows about D-Ribose.  It is a fermented form of sugar (that efficiently produces ATP) that I recently tried and it miraculously took 100% of my speech problems during non-POIS period.  However currently I am in POIS I have a hectic next week and I'm anxious to get rid of my POIS quickly but I think D-Ribose might have worsened certain POIS effects like on nerves and skin.  I have googled 'D-Ribose' and 'Herpes' and there are plenty of articles very poorly written with plenty of acronyms so I am not following if D-Ribose can feed Herpes or it has no effect on it???


Hi b_jim,

Glucose (sugar) is heavily consumed by some herpes viruses during reproduction (Ref1, Ref2). From my understanding, sugar doesn't trigger reactivation of the virus, it just helps it grow and replicate more.
figure from "Divergent effects of human cytomegalovirus and herpes simplex virus-1 on cellular metabolism"

Taurine is depleted in herpes infected cells:
Taurine, an amino acid analog involved in osmoregulation and cell volume control [32], is not an obvious precursor metabolite, but was nevertheless decreased 4-fold by HCMV infection. - Dynamics of the cellular metabolome during human cytomegalovirus infection

"Notably depleted compounds included glycine betaine (TMG), taurine, creatine, and NAD+. The conserved decrease in the osmolyte, taurine, in both HCMV and HSV-1 likely reflects a host cell response to virus-induced increases in cell volume." - Divergent Effects of Human Cytomegalovirus and Herpes Simplex Virus-1 on Cellular Metabolism

Jimmy posted a podcast interview of Dr. Michael Van ElZakker where he discusses the following topics:
  • vagus nerve and trigeminal nerve
  • chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS)
  • viruses and bacteria
  • autoinflammatory syndrome
  • glial cells and mast cells
  • prostaglandins and cytokines
  • innate immune system
  Dr. Van ElZakker's explanations are very clear. I think that a proper understanding of his hypothesis/work can help move our understanding of POIS forward. The podcast can be found here Interview of Harvard neuroscientist Dr. Michael Van ElZakker: CFS & Vagus
POIS Free, 2+ yrs (occasional/predictive lapses)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #113 on: October 01, 2018, 05:33:04 PM »
Hello nanna1 you write that "glucose is heavily consumed by herpes viruses during reproduction ... it helps it grow and replicate more".  You also cite: "Notably depleted compounds included glycine betaine (TMG), taurine, creatine, and NAD+"   

Are you saying that: 1. Glycine 2. Betaine, 3. Taurine, 4. Creatine, 5. NAD+ are GOOD or or are they BAD to keep Herpes in check during pois?
Hi Swell,
  I don't know if the papers I cited (Ref1, Ref2) say whether increasing these compound are good or bad for stopping herpes replication. The papers say that herpes viruses deplete these compounds (TMG, taurine, creatine, NAD+). Glycine-betaine is one molecule know as tri-methyl-glycine (TMG). Even if supplementing with these compounds does not stop virus replication, they could prevent herpes induce depletion and the damage due to depletion.

  If you want to stop herpes replication, the Beta-herpes virus stack (Betaherpesvirinae) is designed to do that. The drugs and supplements in this stack block the production of prostaglandins (like PGE2) by blocking COX and NF-kB (see below image).  I would start with what works first and then experiment by adding and subtracting supplements that you want to improve any long term benefits of your stack. The Betaherpesvirinae stack is one stack that works for several people when it is taken properly (see ideal timing and dosage at the bottom of post). You can talk to your physician about it to make sure it is safe for you.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 05:49:28 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Vandemolen

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #114 on: October 07, 2018, 07:57:42 AM »
I have a question about Herpes. Can you get Herpes without sex? 20 years ago I visited a friend, who is a doctor at an Aids hospital in a country in Southern Africa. There I shook hands of patients and doctors. Already at that time everybody knew that that’s not the way you can get Aids. So I saw it as a normal thing to do. But what if those patients also have Herpes? I never had a cold sore or vesicles on the penis. I think right before or right after my trip to Africa I got POIS. I never did a bloodtest for Herpes. But I read that maybe 75% of the population has a Herpes virus.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #115 on: October 09, 2018, 10:45:51 AM »
Hi Vandemolen,

  Herpes virus can be transferred through any bodily fluid, but the location of the infection in the body and the immune status of infected person determines which fluids will contain the viruses. If someone has a herpes simplex (HSV-1 or HSV-2) lesion on the skin and you have direct physical contact with that lesion (and fluid), then the virus can be transferred. Herpes simplex can also be transferred through sweat if the infected person has an outbreak on the skin (see Herpes gladiatorum). The same is true for varicella-zoster virus (HHV-3, VZV, chicken pox) which is highly contagious. HSV-1 typically infects nerves of the brain that extend to the face and HSV-2 typically infects nerves of the spine that extend to the genitals. However, through oral sex, HSV-1 can be transferred from mouth-lesions to someones genitals/spine, or HSV-2 can be transferred from genital-lesions to someones face/brain.
  Only HSV-1, HSV-2 and HHV-3 produce lesions like cold-sores, genital herpes or shingles respectively. The other 3 common herpes viruses do not produce outward physical lesions. These are generalizations, and there can be exceptions to the rule.

  Epstein-Barr virus (HHV-4, EBV), Cytomegalovirus (HHV-5, CMV, HCMV) and HHV-6 are transferred most often through saliva (spit, kissing, sharing food). If you are shaking peoples hands that may have bodily fluid on them, remember to wash your hands before putting your fingers on food (eating), in your mouth or nose. Unlike HSV-1, HSV-2 and HHV-3, the EBV and CMV virus can be contagious even when there are no physical signs of an outbreak or illness. This is how people get mononucleosis through kissing. CMV can also be transferred from mother to child either in the womb, through saliva or breast milk (Ref5). Mother-to-child transmission typically only occurs if the mother's immune system has been compromised by stress, a new/acute CMV infection or another infection like influenza. The rise in progesterone during pregnancy can suppress both viral activation and immune response to the fetus.

Herpes prevalence:
  99% of all humans are infected with HHV-6 during childhood (Ref1, Ref2). 60 to 90% of humans are infected with HSV-1 depending on country/location (HSV prevelance in the link, see table on the right). 50 to 75% of the world's population is infected with CMV. About 20% is infected with HSV-2 (HSV prevelance). Usually what happens when a person is infected is that their immune system fights off the virus and removes it from the body before latency (dormancy) can occur. So being acutely infected with the virus does not mean it will remain and become latent in your body for life. The prevalence of herpes in some African and European nations is higher than the rest of the world partly because pathogens like HIV compromise the immune system of some of these individuals making it easier for them to be infected with other viruses like herpes. We are all probably exposed to different herpes viruses at multiple times in your life, but it is only when you have a compromised immune system that the virus can establish latency. If a virus (or bacteria) does become latent, the immune system is responsible for keeping the virus latent and preventing it from replicating. So maintaining a healthy immune system is important!

  In general, herpes is only contagious when an infected persons immune system is weakened (immunocompromised), the virus is activated and is being expelled in bodily fluid. So the vast majority of herpes infected individuals are not contagious. And even if they are contagious, hopefully your immune system can fight off the infection before latency occurs.

Location-specific infections = rare disease:
  In terms of POIS or any other disease, the location of the infection in the body is more important than the fact that there is an infection (post). When there is no virus outbreak, herpes viruses tend to establish latency in specific locations and tissues of the body. For example, some herpes viruses (HSV-1 and HHV-6) are positively correlated with Alzheimer's disease (Ref3, Ref4), but not everyone that has these latent infections gets the disease. It is only when the infection reaches certain parts of the brain (i.e. hippocampus) that these infections become risk factors for the disease.
  Many people can have the same virus. But if the location of the infection in the body is different, then the disease (Alzheimer's, IBS, CFS, arthritis, asthma, heart disease, etc...) that manifest will be different.

A hypothesis:
  I suspect that POIS can result from an infection of the brain vasculature (blood vessels) which are located near the base of the brain near the trigeminal nerve and basal root ganglia. Normally, there is no connection between vasodilation and inflammation. But if epithelial or nerve cells of the blood vessels are injured by infection, then vasodilation (vascular stretching) can cause local inflammation and vice versa (post). There are bacteria like Toxoplasma gondii which have herpes-like properties and can cause flu-like symptoms when activated. I recently got IgG tested for Toxoplasma gondii and expect to hear back from the lab soon. There is not enough submitted virus and bacteria test to establish these hypotheses statistically. But hopefully our collective contributions can make a break-through.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 02:58:30 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #116 on: October 11, 2018, 10:34:31 AM »
Hi All,

  I have updated my medical data post with new hormone test (testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, luteinizing hormone)(see 6. Hormone Tests (Thyroid and Steroid) and B12 section of that post).
  I also took a new bacteria infection test IgG for Toxoplasma gondii (see 4. Virus and bacteria test abnormal section of that post). The summary of the data is listed at the bottom of the post.

  My medical data is listed on the Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results thread.
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Scrub

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #117 on: October 11, 2018, 10:42:43 AM »
Quote
A hypothesis:
  I suspect that POIS can result from an infection of the brain vasculature (blood vessels) which are located near the base of the brain near the trigeminal nerve and basal root ganglia. Normally, there is no connection between vasodilation and inflammation. But if epithelial or nerve cells of the blood vessels are injured by infection, then vasodilation (vascular stretching) can cause local inflammation

Hi nanna. This interests me a lot. I'm seriously considering POIS as a expression of MCAS and this could be a part of it, correct me if I'm wrong, but histamine release from mast cells and other inflammatory cytokines and leukotrienes can cause vasodilation.

JohnJames

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #118 on: October 14, 2018, 08:12:51 AM »
Hi BluesBrother,

What I have trouble understanding is why the particular vascular stress during ejaculation/orgasm should trigger POIS symptoms but not, for example, exercise (although there are some people who experience POIS-like symptoms after exercise).
  I am one of those people that used to have exercise-induced flu-like symptoms. But for some reason I don't have them anymore even when I am not taking my supplement stack. There are certain vascular differences between sex and exercise; penile erection being one of them. I believe that the critical area for POIS to be triggered is somewhere in the lower brain area. But in all truth, right now I think that our knowledge of the mechanisms behind POIS is limited by the lack of medical data from POISers.
 
  Currently, there is a thread where some POISers have volunteered their medical documents so that the POIS community and friends of the POIS community can carry out "crowd research" on this disease (please see Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results). This thread is inspired by medical data posted to the medical data thread. I have also posted my medical data and a description of my symptoms there. This is important, because the more POISers post there data, the more answers we can have to questions like the ones you are asking.
  One troubling habit I have noticed on several forums (POIScenter, NS, reddit/POIS) is that POISers tend to post their medical results only when there is something unusual or they test positive for some disease. I think this feeds false-positive-hypothesies of POIS. For example, it is well known that lecithin helps many POISers reduce their symptoms. This benefit of lecithin motivates those who have genetic test showing MTHFR mutations (which in some cases don't affect methylation) to post their gene profiles. Those POISers probably have a lot of other normal (negative) medical test results of other parameters that they don't share because maybe they think it was not interesting. But the normal medical results are often more important than the abnormal results. Lecithin can reduce my POIS symptoms, but my blood test show that under-methylation does not cause my POIS (see 12. Methylation/homocysteine blood test:). So even if undermethylation doesn't cause the disease, overmethylation (or some other mechanism) can help it. I did see one POISer (on reddit) with a normal MTHFR gene profile and these genes are usually redundant. This could mean that for every one person who post genetic profiles showing mutations, there could be ten or more people who don't share their genetic profile because they don't see any abnormal mutations or the results disagree with the under-methylation theory. In the scientific community, we call this Publication Bias. I think Publication Bias is the reason years of POISer experimentation on the forums don't lead to more knowledge of what POIS is. We need normal and negative medical test results just as much as abnormal and positive results to be posted. This will not only allow us to answer questions like yours, but also develop more targeted therapies for the disease.

  In your case, you were able to rule out the possibility of H. pylori being the cause of your POIS because you tested negative for the bacteria. If you had tested positive for the bacteria, no decision could be made about the role of H. pylori in your case. So your normal medical result actual contain more information. I also tested negative for H. pylori several times (7. Gut health and IBS:). Sorry, I have rambled about the scientific method long enough. This is the kind of stuff I talk about on my job, (process of discovery). I am passionate about the approach of using process-of-elimination to rule out everything a disease is not. But thanks to anyone who was patient enough to read all this, LOL!  :D
Regarding the infection hypothesis more generally: I think I first experienced POIS after returning from a trip to Ghana, after which I had some digestive issues (some of which remain). Maybe I have caught an infection there.
  If you don't have cold sores (HSV-1), genital herpes (HSV-2) or shingles (HHV-3), then it is probably not those viruses. EBV (HHV-4) and CMV (HHV-5) are associated with gastritis and gastrointestinal ulcers in some cases and can infect endothelial cells. I'm still studying properties of EBV. CMV (HHV-5) and HHV-6 both establish latency in endothelia (digestive tract and blood vessels). There are some bacteria that can be triggered by norepinephrine (Ref1, Ref2), but I don't know much about them other than that. Muon has been posting about bacterial infections, so maybe he knows more about them. I hope this was helpful. Let me know if you have any new ideas or suggestions. I am willing to learn and willing to be wrong.

Hi Nanna,

Is testing negative for H. Pylori a good or a bad thing? I noticed on the pois subreddit a guy recently posted saying his doctor also found no trace of H.Pylori as though that was a bad thing, not a good thing. He then went on a diet which eventually cured him?

Also I couldn't help but notice your vitamin D levels were only at 27, this might be considered very low depending on where you look.

See: https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/9i79vb/pois_mostly_gone_2_months_and_counting/

« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 08:25:24 AM by JohnJames »

nanna1

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Re: Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
« Reply #119 on: October 15, 2018, 01:11:31 AM »
Quote
A hypothesis:
  I suspect that POIS can result from an infection of the brain vasculature (blood vessels) which are located near the base of the brain near the trigeminal nerve and basal root ganglia. Normally, there is no connection between vasodilation and inflammation. But if epithelial or nerve cells of the blood vessels are injured by infection, then vasodilation (vascular stretching) can cause local inflammation

Hi nanna. This interests me a lot. I'm seriously considering POIS as a expression of MCAS and this could be a part of it, correct me if I'm wrong, but histamine release from mast cells and other inflammatory cytokines and leukotrienes can cause vasodilation.
Hi Scrub,

  I think that you are right in that histamine levels may rise when we are experiencing POIS. The effectiveness of H1 histamine blockers against POIS symptoms is good evidence of this. Histamine is produced by immune cells such as macrophage, mast, basophil and Enterochromaffin-like cells (wiki1) and can cause vasodilation (wiki2). With that said, there are three POISers that have been tested for mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and all three tested negative/normal using tryptase blood tests (post). MCAS implies that there is a disease of the mast cells. But the medical data from POISers suggest that POIS is not a disease of the mast cells. If there is dysfunction in some part of the immune system, mast cells do not appear to be part of the dysfunction.

  Histamine is sometimes released when the immune system is trying to get rid of something harmful (toxin, bacteria, virus, fungus, allergen, cancer, venom). This immune response is not normally considered a disease of the immune system. For example, when someone has the flu (influenza), histamine is released by mast cells to increase fluid production and induce sneezing. Sneezing then expels the virus from the body. The immune systems response to the flu makes us feel sick, but everyone agrees that strengthening the immune system is the best option to feeling better. There is evidence in the POISer data that the immune system is heavily involved in POIS (post). This implies, as you have stated, that cytokines and leukotrienes are also involved and can contribute to vasodilation and inflammation. So I would agree with the majority of what you were saying. Please continue to explore your ideas. You may find some error in my reasoning or find out something that I have not thought of. Thanks Scrub! :)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 12:28:37 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
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