Muon's Case

[BoneBroth]

Some POISes report low and extreme low levels of vasopressin (made in the hypothalamus)

Where did you read this?

Wrong of me, I cant find any analyse reports of low vasopressin but many POIS:ers report symptoms of low aldosterone and vasopressin (also known as antidiuretic hormone (ADH), arginine vasopressin (AVP) or argipressin): Dehydration, dry skin, wrinkles, decrease in saliva and dry eyes.

Produced in the hypothalamus, vasopressin increases the amount of solute-free water reabsorbed back into the circulation from the filtrate in the kidney tubules of the nephrons. Second, AVP constricts arterioles, which increases peripheral vascular resistance and raises arterial blood pressure.

I had issues with vasopressin according to a bioresonance analyse but I havn't checked it in the blood.

ACE is also a central component of the renin?angiotensin system (RAS), which controls blood pressure by regulating the volume of fluids in the body. I'ts on the list of tested hormones on my last blood analyse that I'm waiting for the answer of.

[Muon]

Yes I agree I have seen symptoms in POISers that could be explained by changes of those hormones.

[Muon]

Check page 1 of this thread and observe interferon gamma vs time. It seems bimodal (IL-12 is a major driver of IFN-g) with domains < X hour and > X hour (X=24?) for inhibition and enhancement respectively, similar what Theoharides describes:

Mast Cells to Dendritic Cells: Let IL-13 Shut Your IL-12 Down (Theoharides, 2021)
"The effect of IL-13 on the expression of the p40 gene of IL-12 is bimodal with inhibition at early times (< 24 h) and strong enhancement at later times; in fact, IL-13 is often used to generate DCs in vitro from monocytes and these cultured cells produce more IL-12 than ex vivo-purified DCs."

Hmm monocytes:
"T cells and monocyte level were higher in POIS patient while B cell and NK cell levels were lower" Ref.
Increased T-cells: IL-13--->monocytes--->dendritic cells--->CD4+ differentiation: Ref, Human monocyte (pDC1)–derived dendritic cells (DC1) were found to induce TH1 differentiation. Could more monocytes mean more Th1 cells? There are cytokines that can increase monocytes (Which ones are monocyte drivers?).

I wrote something earlier about IL-33 and this POIS case, suggesting elevated IL-33: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3127.msg39195#msg39195 

IL-33 can selectively induce IL-8 (page 1) from mast cells: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7003574/table/T4/
If this is true in my case then IL-33 may move dynamically in the way IL-8 behaves.
IL-33--->Mast cells--->IL-8
IL-33--->Mast cells/Th2 cells--->IL-13--->Dendritic cells--->IL-12 bimodal--->Th1 cells--->IFN-gamma bimodal?
IL-13--->IgE (IgE brother)
IL-13 positive mast cells = upregulated in IgG4 related disease and can induce IgG4 (IgG4 Muon).

Ref:
"Interleukin 4 (IL-4) and IL-13 share many biological functions. Both cytokines promote growth of activated human B cells and induce naive human surface immunoglobulin D+ (sIgD+) B cells to produce IgG4 and IgE."

Cytokine driven elevation of IgE (IL-13? Elevation of specific B-cell phenotype?), (Reisman, 2020):
"Eleven (78.5%) patients had slightly elevated total IgE with a mean of 40.5 ± 24.7 kU/l (normal range <35). The IgE test 24 h after ejaculation showed no significant increase in four of the patients (mean 42.5 ± 23.3 kU/l; p = 0.24). The C-reactive protein and white blood cell count in the postejaculation investigation showed no significant differences (p > 0.05)."

IL-33/IL-4/IL-13/IL-12 mast cell-dendritic cell axis could be considered for investigation in POIS research.

[Muon]

Stumbled upon something when scrolling through papers about cardiovascular inflammation/disease:
Stress, inflammation and cardiovascular disease
"CRF also stimulates the locus coeruleus, a dense collection of autonomic cells in the brainstem, to secrete NE at sympathetic nerve endings"

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.msg39167#msg39167

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.msg39297#msg39297

I had this, what the woman with POIS below describes, since age ~12. Before I became sexual active, same hot weather condition, manual breathing (autonomic regulation of breathing stopped), no signal that I needed air which led to hyperventilation and panicking:

It's a very confusing feeling to describe: almost as if my body "didn?t need to breathe", or forgot how to regulate the breathing pattern. I could hold my breath and feel no need to breathe in a long time. I had to "breathe manually", which led to hyperventilation and panicking. I had a few attacks like this during the next weeks, but after that it resolved spontaneously, even though it happened a few times in the next years, especially on very hot days in the summer (my favorite weather). I learned to live with it and not panic if it happened, and that was it. Now, considering the evolution of my POIS, I believe exercise was the trigger.

Does this have any relation with the info given above inside this post?

Regarding blood vessels; The vascular system is (over)responding immediately to sexual triggers, not with peak intensity but reaction is very fast, seconds. Even the most distant parts of the extremities. Are hormones playing a role as well and/or is there a neurological component involved? Stress can do the same thing alone or with POIS. The vascular system becomes more reactive to stress once it has been triggered by POIS. Something is going on with the liver as well.

[Charles_b]

Weirdly I have this same thing happen the first night of POIS episodes: when falling asleep it is like my brain forgets to tell my body to breathe, and I keep half falling asleep, realize I?m not breathing, and then get up gasping.

Generally if I just get up and read a book I?m fine, but if I try to sleep it continues on and off through most of the night.  Other nights I am fine.

[Journey]

I ingested my own semen. All of it. Nothing happened.

Edit: Had gut/belly pain later on that same day (ingested at mid-day) and flatulence but that could have been due to food as well.

When I was a teenager I ingested my own semen and afterwards my stomach and digestion completely shat down just like when sick with a stomach bug but except it was like a 100% stomach shutdown and I literally felt like I was dying until I vomited it all out which instantly relieved it but that is the only time I have done it and doing it again for the sake of experimenting feels very weird to me but I remember that one episode very clearly

[Muon]

Hormone results fasting blood test 12-4-2021, 12:00 p.m (I was slightly stressed, measured out of POIS symptoms)

Progesterone (H): 2.6 nmol/L RR: 0.16-0.48

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone
-->Aldosterone...?

"Progesterone is produced in gonads, adrenal cortex, and also in the brain in both males and females." https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/progesterone

[Hopeoneday]

I ingested my own semen. All of it. Nothing happened.

Edit: Had gut/belly pain later on that same day (ingested at mid-day) and flatulence but that could have been due to food as well.

Pure science on action 

[Hopeoneday]

Weirdly I have this same thing happen the first night of POIS episodes: when falling asleep it is like my brain forgets to tell my body to breathe, and I keep half falling asleep, realize I?m not breathing, and then get up gasping.

Generally if I just get up and read a book I?m fine, but if I try to sleep it continues on and off through most of the night.  Other nights I am fine.

Once upon a time, in my worst pois episodes, I had sleep paralysis.
Over the years, I’ve learned that pois causes nerve hypersensitivity.
Then there is a reaction, especially in the supine position,
when gases form in the stomach, these gases create pressure on the esphagus (want to burp) and vagus nerves,
and the nerves are hypersensitive, the muscles go into spasm,
in these moments bronchospasms also occur,
the heart skips because all this presure and nerve hypersensitivity.
Probbly hapoxia...due pois atac and all this ocurs...

[demografx]

I ingested my own semen. All of it. Nothing happened.

Edit: Had gut/belly pain later on that same day (ingested at mid-day) and flatulence but that could have been due to food as well.

Pure science in action   

                               

TMI

[Hopeoneday]

Guys , cheers..


Ah, wait . Edit , belly pain .. delayed alergic reaction 

[demografx]

Guys , cheers..


Ah, wait . Edit , belly pain .. delayed alergic reaction 

[Muon]

https://chronicfatiguediagnosis.com/2019/06/03/the-enigma-of-sigma-receptors/

"In other words, sigma receptors are the intermediate between the extracellular glutamate and the intracellular calcium release that it induces within the neuronal cells. Without proper sigma function, the calcium stores from endoplasmic reticulum will not be utilized properly and the cell will run into issues with calcium toxicity and depletion."

"The correct balance of DHEA and progesterone is going to determine the degree of neuronal excitability."

https://chronicfatiguediagnosis.com/2018/11/01/intracellular-calcium-and-viruses/

"I’ve already discussed in “Dysautonomia as Neuronal Storm” that neurons rely on calcium release from calcium channels to release neurotransmitters. Therefore, if there’s intracellular calcium bankruptcy, we are also talking neurotransmitter depletion."

And cytokine bankruptcy (see page 1 cytokines t<24h post O)

[demografx]

Here you can do dr Hertoghes selftest for aldosterone deficiency:

My endo says one adrenal gland is producing way too much aldosterone. She prescribed something similar to (but not the same as) spironalactone.

If I were younger, doc would recommend surgery to remove adrenal gland.

According to my endo, I have primary hyperaldosteronism, and she recommends that I continue eplerenone.

But I’m holding off those meds because I’ve had scary FAINTING and lightheaded FALLING episodes lately.

At my age, that could be dangerous.

Also, my blood pressure is very high now (173/109). Consulting with my cardio in a few hours.

[berlin1984]

Indeed, please stay safe!

It's crazy to think that your age is triple or more of some members here.
POIS - bringing generations together under a common cause 

[demografx]

Many thanks, Berlin!!

[demografx]

POIS - bringing generations together under a common cause 

   

[Muon]

I emailed my GP: Testing of Aldosterone isn't necessary because there isn't a mineral issue present. Cardiovascular issues in family, could be related to something like this:

High progesterone levels are associated with family history of premature coronary artery disease in young healthy adult men

Got more papers dumped under progesterone on page 1 all the way down in the trash section.

[Muon]

17a-hydroxyprogesterone, DHEA, Progesterone, aldosterone:
http://www.poiscenter.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1694#p15143
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg25437;topicseen#msg25437
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg24259;topicseen#msg24259
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg37879;topicseen#msg37879
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg27246;topicseen#msg27246
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg24995;topicseen#msg24995
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg40236;topicseen#msg40236

https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13685530400004199
In male patients with cytochrome P450C17 (steroid 17a-hydroxylase/17,20-lyase; EC 1.14.99.9) deficiency, the progesterone levels are clearly elevated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_17alpha-monooxygenase
It has 3 cofactors: NADH, NADPH, and Heme

[Muon]

I get the suspicion that the Groin problem (one of my first symptoms before hell broke loose) could be related to a regional vasomotor dysfunction of a main artery, same as lower back. Feels like something is getting blocked (or change of tension) upon triggers like exercise, stress, heat, light pressure on affected area or body positions that put pressure on these (my mother who find it difficult to sit at a 90 degrees angle might have a similar issue, pinched tissue + weak vessels?), and POIS, like it doesn't respond properly, leads to weakness, fague minor pain and uncomfortable sensation. Plus veins on bicep did not respond well to blood pressure measurement lately with air cuff. Some pain in the body could be vascular related. I can also feel friction of blood flow in legs every now and then. The spasm in body, especially prevalent in legs, could be vasospasms.

Side note: I don't get these events anymore:
During POIS, pressure builds up in low part of spine, process could take tens of minutes. Moving around may delay this, unable to prevent this while asleep. Up to a threshold point that pressure is getting released and at the same time one leg shocks as if lightning shoots through it. Depolarization? Polarization builds up due to demyelination? (inflammation?). Or sympathetic outlfow issues in spine? Still have pressure in lower spine upon triggers but it doesn't keep building up, it doesn't reach the former mentioned threshold level.