Is this POIS?

[fathom]

Hi everyone.  I was searching tonight as I have been searching for last 10 years or so, and voila for the first time, came across this forum, and since then I have been glued to my screen, combing through the material for last 4 hrs   I dont want to jump if my issues are indeed POIS, but I hope someone here can help me out.  It has been my experience that docs on this topic do not have much answers, let alone understanding (or maybe they are just as introverted as are their patients   So my concerns are somewhat different, however I do see some similarities as well; however since I do have habit of doubting myself, therefore I need reality check from this forum.

After sex (and MB), I have some very visible changes:

MY SYMPTOMS:
1. FACIAL NERVE WEAKNESS:  10 years or so, I developed a teeny bit assymetry in facial muscles or nerves, one month following a serious trauma/accident.   Doctors did not understand if it was due to trauma or due to maybe it was Bells Palsy, and since it was not noticeable, I was sent home with some exercises which really did nothing but keep the paresis in its original condition (i.e. no improvement and no further degradation in motor functions).  Two things here: One,I fear this all started on a day (when I was still not fully healed from accident) and I was engaged in mb like 4-5 times within a 1-2 hr window.  Secondly and more importantly (since this is a fact, and no doubts here) from the original pareseis onset till today, FOLLOWING each sex or MB, this assymetry SIGNIFICANTLY increases so much so that it easily becomes visible to everyone as I move my lips.  To further clarify, the onset of my symptoms continues to worsen for next 24 hrs or so, and these symptoms resolve by itsef in 5 to 7 days.   
2. NUMBNESS / TINGLING SENSATION:  Similar to item 1, above, I lost sensation after trauma.  And similar to item 1, FOLLOWING sex, this numbness and tingling SIGNIFICANTLY increase, and resolves in same time frame as above.
3. SKIN COLOR CHANGE:  This is unrelated to the above accident.  However recovery is exactly similar to item 1 and 2.  That is, following sex, my skin becomes pale, its texture changes a little (appears more blotchy I think), peak onset is 24 hrs, and resolution starts 5 days and in 7 days I feel normal (as was before sex).
4. HAIR TEXTURE CHANGE:  My head hair appear visibly thinned out, they appear brittle, weak, and a little curly (similar to a shriveled plant).  Recovery is similar to the above items (FYI: I take oral Propecia 5 mg every other day)
5. PERSPIRATION/SMELL CHANGE:  I hope you wont laugh, I do have a wickedly powerful sense of smell (and I hate smells).  I feel after I workout, there is a different smell to the sweat AND (this might appear strange), I feel there is some secretion from perspiration that irritates the eyes.  The recovery is similar to the above items, 7 days.
6. EYES:  There is I feel a temporary change in my vision.  And one very strange phenomenon as mentioned prior:  If I in a short interval, say 1-2 hrs, do sex 4-5 times (or o as you folks mention), I secrete some strong chemical, I dont know maybe it comes through my skin pores, because I start to feel a bitter tingling, as if some liquid is slowly entering my eyes and irritating the heck out of me, and eyes start to visibly turn red.
7.  BODY WEAKNESS:  I might feel weakness which resolves in 2-3 days, though I do get increased sleep. There is a satiety feeling, however my social anxieties naturally worsen and resolve in 7 days.  I personally dont feel bothered by it, since I have more pressing things as noted above.

Since I am detailed person, I should give some context, I have the following pre-existing conditions, and to clarify, I dont believe they "significantly" change (maybe a teeny bit if they at all do) after sex or mb.
A)   LPR: laryngopharyngeal reflux.  My throat and voice box/vocal cords are being affected by the LPR.  My voice pitch changes through out day.  (Doc says, I'm breathing stomach contents throughout day).  Thing I dont understand, I am tall/skinny and I think a typical LPR patient is overweight. Maybe this is a wrong diagnosis and I have something else?
B)   Speech impediments:  From time immemorial, my speech has been a little slurred, it stutters, and have troubling sequencing my thoughts. 
C)   Canker Sores:  I get A LOT of canker sores in my mouth frequently.  Maybe this is due to LPR (item A).  They hurt and affect my speech.  Docs have no clue.
D)   Dont laugh please:  I have chronic constipation. 
E)   Chronic belching, burping (burp like 200-300 times a day).

Please help if you can, appreciate your patience in reading through it.



My new post:
Actually this was very relieving to talk here.  Thanks a lot, Quantum and Demografx.

One thing that still bothers me, I dont see anyone here that feels excretion of some chemical through skin after ejaculation.  This excretion is very pronounced if I do multiple e's over and over in a shorter time. 

It took me a while to learn that if I limit e's, the symptoms will be proportionally less, however the symptoms are still there significantly present with even a single e.  I did buy today from a local store:
a) Inositol Nicotinate (Niacin) 500 mg
b) phosphatidyl Choline 420 mg
c) Fenugreek 620 mg

I'll soon put an order online for:
d) Huperzine A and
e) either Alpha-GPC or CDP-Choline (to replace the phosphatidyl choline).  What is your opinion if one is better than the other?

Anything else, you see I am missing.  One of these herbs Phosphatidyl Choline probably helps LPR (which is essentially muscle weakness in the lower esophagus), though Niacin (Nicotanic acid) probably harms LPR.  Would your research have any specific understanding or treatment for the LPR (or even GERD)?  I don't want to make my LPR worse since it affects my speech.

Update 2:
Hey all, unable to make a new post (I dont know why you made it so intensely difficult , so appending to my original post again:
I am currently at my peak symptoms after one o (more than 24 hrs have passed).  Unfortunately meds so far have not helped me, in fact may have made it worse.  My voice is very muted or muffled and I feel I have to expend a lot of energy to just speak, and I hate exactly this feeling, the paralysis is worse too.  Wondering what else I can try?
- One note:  In past I have tried anti-anxiety medications (for speech).  I didn't continue them for long, since I felt they made my speech more effortfull (and I felt even affected the paralysis).  The affect I feel currently is maybe similar to an anti-anxiety medication?
 I have not tried anti histamine yet, but then my symptoms don't include nasal congestion or sneezing at all ... any ideas (I still want to keep an open mind and try something if it helps)?
Thanks a ton.

[Quantum]

Hi Fathom, and welcome to this forum !

At least, now, you will feel you are not alone in the world with your problem.

What you describe do look like POIS.   There is no lab test or else, up to now, te get a clear diagnostic for POIS.  It is still the 5 criteria that have been set by Dr Waldinger that are the most helpful to define POIS:


    Criterium 1. One or more of the following symptoms: sensation of a flu-like state, extreme fatigue or exhaustion, weakness of musculature, experiences of feverishness or perspiration, mood disturbances and/or irritability, memory difficulties, concentration problems, incoherent speech, congestion of nose or watery nose, itching eyes;
    Criterium 2. All symptoms occur immediately (e.g., seconds), soon (e.g., minutes), or within a few hours after ejaculation that is initiated by coitus, and/or masturbation, and/or spontaneously (e.g., during sleep);
    Criterium 3. Symptoms occur always or nearly always, e.g., in more than 90% of ejaculation events;
    Criterium 4. Most of these symptoms last for about 2 to 7 days;
    Criterium 5. The symptoms disappear spontaneously.

( You can see these, and more, in the latest article by Dr Waldinger, at http://tau.amegroups.com/article/view/11107/11778 )


Reading your message, you seems to have all of those criteria.   Also, the symptoms you described have all been mentioned by other members.  We all have a specific set of symptoms, not every one case have exactly the same "set", but almost all symptoms are part of clusters of symptoms that are common to many members.

Many members have reported to have sagging face muscles during POIS, looking very tired, like if the muscles of their face were becoming very weak.  In your case, it seems to make obvious a weakness left by a previous problem. 

All the other symptoms you mention are known issues in POIS:  digestive problems, skin and hair problems, personality change ( for the worst, like anxiety, depression, etc...), ....


For now, take the time to read information here.   You will see that there are some guidelines to help reduce your symptoms severity and the duration of your POIS "attacks".

First, you may want to reduce your frequency of ejaculations.  You mention intense activity, like 5 times the same day.  That is clearly to avoid when you have POIS.  Most members will reduce the number of releases to a minimum, like once every two weeks or so, to avoid POIS, and also just enough to avoid NE as much as possible ( NE = nocturnal emissions, that can be a real problem when you work or have something important to do, and have an unwanted ejaculation during your sleep, so that you are not able to perform normally in the following days).  Some members even totally abstain from sexual activity, to avoid their horrible symptoms, and stay their usual self as often as possible.

Do you also have symptoms if only one ejaculation from time to time ?   If so, you will easily control your symptoms, by reducing the frequency of ejaculations.

If not, you will see that there are safe ways to help reduce your symptoms.

1.  Change your diet for a healthier diet.   You will find many members here that got better by letting go of junk foods, chemical additives, sugar, and let go gluten, or other cases, dairies, or grain, and turned to vegetables, fruits, and a very healthy diet with natural food, and this has a huge impact on the reduction of their symptoms.

2.   Stress management:  Like with any disease, if you have a good lifestyle  sleep habits, moderate exercise, etc...), and manage your stress through these and through meditation or yoga, or else, that helps as well.

3. Supplementations.  Some natural products, vitamins, or else, have been proven useful for symptoms reductions, in particular when take about an hour before ejaculation.  Niacin, antihistamines, choline, antioxidants, and others, have been reported to help.  No one single supplement works for everybody, so you would have to make some testing, there. 

For examples of these possible methods of relief, see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448  .   You should check with your health professionnal before trying anyone of these, and do so in a safe manner.


Take your time and read around, and don't hesitate to ask questions, and I suppose you will have many in the weeks to come.

[demografx]

Welcome to POISCenter, Fathom!

[Quantum]

Here is an update by Fathom  ( I re-post it here because of a technical problem that lead him to write it as an update of his first message.  By posting it as a new message, members will notice this update and read it, and hopefully, give some feeback to Fathom):

My new post:
Actually this was very relieving to talk here.  Thanks a lot, Quantum and Demografx.

One thing that still bothers me, I dont see anyone here that feels excretion of some chemical through skin after ejaculation.  This excretion is very pronounced if I do multiple e's over and over in a shorter time. 

It took me a while to learn that if I limit e's, the symptoms will be proportionally less, however the symptoms are still there significantly present with even a single e.  I did buy today from a local store:
a) Inositol Nicotinate (Niacin) 500 mg
b) phosphatidyl Choline 420 mg
c) Fenugreek 620 mg

I'll soon put an order online for:
d) Huperzine A and
e) either Alpha-GPC or CDP-Choline (to replace the phosphatidyl choline).  What is your opinion if one is better than the other?

Anything else, you see I am missing.  One of these herbs Phosphatidyl Choline probably helps LPR (which is essentially muscle weakness in the lower esophagus), though Niacin (Nicotanic acid) probably harms LPR.  Would your research have any specific understanding or treatment for the LPR (or even GERD)?  I don't want to make my LPR worse since it affects my speech.

Update 2:
Hey all, unable to make a new post (I dont know why you made it so intensely difficult , so appending to my original post again:
I am currently at my peak symptoms after one o (more than 24 hrs have passed).  Unfortunately meds so far have not helped me, in fact may have made it worse.  My voice is very muted or muffled and I feel I have to expend a lot of energy to just speak, and I hate exactly this feeling, the paralysis is worse too.  Wondering what else I can try?
- One note:  In past I have tried anti-anxiety medications (for speech).  I didn't continue them for long, since I felt they made my speech more effortfull (and I felt even affected the paralysis).  The affect I feel currently is maybe similar to an anti-anxiety medication?
 I have not tried anti histamine yet, but then my symptoms don't include nasal congestion or sneezing at all ... any ideas (I still want to keep an open mind and try something if it helps)?
Thanks a ton.

[Quantum]

Hi Fathom,

I can now answer to your update ( You do not have brain fog as a symptoms, so the answer was not obvious to you.... However, it is a very common symptoms among POIS sufferers.  But, I don't have it neither, and don't have any other cognitive symptoms, but much emotional symptoms.  In this regard, I think we have a similar "POIS type").

About the excretion/smell through your skin, I think you have pointed out you have a very developed sense of smell.  That makes me think that others may have this symptom, but just don't perceive this odor they produce.  It would be interesting to know what biochemical is responsible for this smell, that could tell something about what causes your POIS, and maybe POIS in general.  Can you describe what kind of odor it is, is it similar to another smell you know of ?

About trying the supplements you bought, I strongly suggest that you try them only ONE at a time, so you will be able to monitor your reaction to this specific product.  If you take 2 or 3 new things at once, you will never know which does what, and you will not learn anything valuable.   I sincerely think you should use a more "scientific" approach, and try them one at a time, for a couple of weeks, and you take notes, about the dose you take, the time you take it, how many minutes before O, the results you have, the severity of the symptoms you have, or the level of releif you have, and so on.   Once you will know, for example, which dose of niacin is helping you, and when to take it ( and this may take some time), then you can consider adding and trying something else.  Also, if you thoroughly try one of these, on 2 or 3 occasions, and notice absolutely no relief, you will know this one does not help for you.  If you find one that bring some relief, like 20%, than keep it, and then, add another one from there. 

For now, you don't know exactly which one may worsen you symptoms.

I know, what I suggest means that it will take time, but this patience may pay off a lot.  It is by this slow "trial and errors" method that I came to develop a pre-pack that brings me a high level of relief ( 80% to 100%, average 90%)


About antihistamine, they have been helpful for some members, regardless of having or not sneezing or runny nose, or other allergy-like symptoms. They seems to work on many POIS symptoms, and we do not no yet why, apart that for some members, they make their symptoms less severe, and in some cases, completely block the POIS "attack".

[fathom]

Excretion/Smell: 
I should rephrase myself and focus on excretion itself since there is less ambiguity there:
i) during o's, specially on multiple o's one after the other, there is a "sticky" fluid excreted through skin pores, across the body (and specially from the forehead, eyelids, that excretion starts to glide into my eyes.  I often stop doing these multiple o's only because the irritation to eyes from this liquid (mixed into perspiration) increases to an extent where I just have no option but to stop, and go wash my face.
ii) secondly, even with a single o, for the first 5 days in particular, when I do intense exercise (lift weights, basketball, etc), I have to watch that my perspiration does not enter my eyes, I periodically have to wash face, specially eyelids/forehead, because that irritation to eyes is nasty.  After 7 days of o, I no longer have to worry on the perspiration, it is normal, and I dont feel anything getting into my eyes or irritating them.
On the smell, I hesitate to focus, since smells are subjective and even I could be the mis-interpreting (I have too many self-doubts); for e.g. anything stickier than normal will increase demands for maintaining hygiene, and any decrease in hygiene will cause more body smell than one is normally accustomed to, and that would appear peculiar.  But I am surely going to be observant on this next time!

Supplements:
That is a very good advice, thanks Quantum.  I did start doing this today.  For some reason, yesterday I had panicked, and was very eager to try all that I gathered from here.  After this Pois post 1 week is gone, I'll have lesser anxieties and better actions I take.   

Your pre-pack:
Wow, is I can say.  There is a wealth of information that I have absolutely no understanding right now, and while I am a good reader, my life is far far away from getting that organized.  Now, I do have low bp and usually all vitals on low side (though docs always viewed it as positive).  But I have always known something is terribly wrong, since the onset of the paresis. 

So, if I understood your pre-pac, it is essentially:
First: Agents that lower anxiety (as lower anxiety automatically increases immune system, or are we not wanting to lower the immune response?).  And Secondly: Ingesting a variety of anti-oxidants so, a) any allergic responses to ejaculation is minimized - as that contributes directly to inflammation, and b) these anti-oxidants minimize any neuronal damage to axons (which affects muscle movement)

So, if I have to make an abbreviated pack (based on yours):  I could essentially take Buspirone (I have all kinds actually prescribed to me), and get some specialty Anti-oxidant multi-vitamin?
Also, you dont seem to use anti-histamine to block allergic response, you instead rely on a super anti-oxidant pack for it, right?

In my lame head, I view anti-anxiety meds so-called 'relaxation' to worsen my paralysis (and thats why hate them even though they are important for me), however I can see a great value 'before' an o taking a med like this, since when something is already relaxed, then it will not incur the wrath of the whatever happens during an o?

If I am following this right, then in my pre-pack, it should comprise:
a) anti-anxiety med
b) powerful cocktail of anti-oxidants

And in post-o i.e. daily pack, it should have only:
d) regular multi-vitamin with good anti-oxidants
e) taurine, since m_jim's symptom criteria fits me as well (I shouldn't take in the pre-pack since that will counter the relaxation?)

Off course I follow your earlier guidance to not start everything same time.  But I do want to make sure, that I get my logic straight, so please require help in that.

Hi Fathom,

I can now answer to your update ( You do not have brain fog as a symptoms, so the answer was not obvious to you.... However, it is a very common symptoms among POIS sufferers.  But, I don't have it neither, and don't have any other cognitive symptoms, but much emotional symptoms.  In this regard, I think we have a similar "POIS type").

About the excretion/smell through your skin, I think you have pointed out you have a very developed sense of smell.  That makes me think that others may have this symptom, but just don't perceive this odor they produce.  It would be interesting to know what biochemical is responsible for this smell, that could tell something about what causes your POIS, and maybe POIS in general.  Can you describe what kind of odor it is, is it similar to another smell you know of ?

About trying the supplements you bought, I strongly suggest that you try them only ONE at a time, so you will be able to monitor your reaction to this specific product.  If you take 2 or 3 new things at once, you will never know which does what, and you will not learn anything valuable.   I sincerely think you should use a more "scientific" approach, and try them one at a time, for a couple of weeks, and you take notes, about the dose you take, the time you take it, how many minutes before O, the results you have, the severity of the symptoms you have, or the level of releif you have, and so on.   Once you will know, for example, which dose of niacin is helping you, and when to take it ( and this may take some time), then you can consider adding and trying something else.  Also, if you thoroughly try one of these, on 2 or 3 occasions, and notice absolutely no relief, you will know this one does not help for you.  If you find one that bring some relief, like 20%, than keep it, and then, add another one from there. 

For now, you don't know exactly which one may worsen you symptoms.

I know, what I suggest means that it will take time, but this patience may pay off a lot.  It is by this slow "trial and errors" method that I came to develop a pre-pack that brings me a high level of relief ( 80% to 100%, average 90%)


About antihistamine, they have been helpful for some members, regardless of having or not sneezing or runny nose, or other allergy-like symptoms. They seems to work on many POIS symptoms, and we do not no yet why, apart that for some members, they make their symptoms less severe, and in some cases, completely block the POIS "attack".

[Quantum]

Hi Fathom.

First, about the sticky sweat, I will share what I think and you will see if it makes sense for you.  Since it also manifests when exercising, I see it's not specific to POIS, and it is more related to your body having some heavy detox to do.  Sweat is a way for the body to get rid of some toxic substances.   Your situation sounds like those who do not drink enough water through the day and do not exercise often enough.  I suggest you start do drink much more water - clean, source water, not juice or other beverage - during your day, like 7 to 8 glasses, or at least 1 liter, to help your body eliminate more toxins, and that you exercise more regularly, like 3 times a week.  With time, you body should get rid of more of these toxic "waste", and both the smell and stickiness should decrease.  Note that some supplements who help at cleansing the liver and body, like fenugreek, can make the smell worst at first, by increasing elimination of toxins.  In the long run, it's a good thing to make a cleansing.  But think of it like a 2 to 3 months program, and wait at least 2 to 3 weeks to start to see some improvement.  I do not know if my hypothesis is correct, but you can check with your doctor or a health professional.  But your sweat surely is highly acidic, because it disrupts the pH of your eyes and cause a burning feeling.  The more your system is clean and up to date with "waste management", and the more often you train, and the less irritating the sweat becomes, and the reverse is true.

About all the theory on this site, take the time to read and digest.  I remember it took me a month or two of reading to digest all the useful info found on this forum. 

About what to take in order to help, many supplements seems useful, like you now see, but like I have said, no one supplements helps every member.  So, you will have to slowly, one by one, make tests.   In general, it is true that products that have anti-inflammatory properties, or are antioxidants, or good for the nervous system and neuroprotective, have a positive effect on POIS.  But take your time, go safely, and see what is helping for you. 

If you find something helping at 20%, keep it.  Than, if you find something else helping at 25%, keep it too.  When taking both, you may then have 40% to 45% relief... and so on.  That's how you will get better, this, and by adjusting to a healthier diet, managing your stress, and so on.  With time, you will read all of the good posts on this forum, and will check, for example, if you have some tolerance problem with gluten in the food, like it is the case for GLC and other members.   Then, bit by bit, you may find more and more relief to your POIS symptoms.

[fathom]

Wondering if there is an alternative to Fenugreek (instead of abandoning it).  I have been stinking unbearable (with no cure, cologne's are useless) for the last 2-3 days and just learnt, it is Fenugreek!

[Quantum]

Hi Fathom,

Usually, fenugreek causes a spicy smell, or similar to the smell of maple syrup. 

If your odor is very different than that, it may be a major cleansing process going on.  If this is so, it will tapered off after some time.

I have read online that washing with a bit of white vinegar can help, but I cannot say if this is a valuable information.