POIS treatment: theory & supplement stack

[certainlypois2]

Unfortunately, after about three weeks of diligent supplementation, I must report that the POIS Cascade Stack was ineffective for my type of POIS. I took all recommended supplements at their recommended doses, hoping it'd give me a sort of "safety net" against nocturnal emissions. When I had one however, I found myself in the midst of a very normal POIS Episode. The stack might have helped a bit with my emotional state that day, though one could also attribute that to an extra cup of coffee and interacting with friends.

I'll continue taking supplements till I've exhausted my current supply. Furthermore I am encouraged by the efficacy of caffeine in mitigating some of my symptoms, and have also gained some minor relief from a healthier diet and Vitamin C supplementation. As such, I may try the targeted herpes virus stack you detailed sometime down the line.

Did you also go vegan.

[Bombardier]

Unfortunately, after about three weeks of diligent supplementation, I must report that the POIS Cascade Stack was ineffective for my type of POIS. I took all recommended supplements at their recommended doses, hoping it'd give me a sort of "safety net" against nocturnal emissions. When I had one however, I found myself in the midst of a very normal POIS Episode. The stack might have helped a bit with my emotional state that day, though one could also attribute that to an extra cup of coffee and interacting with friends.

I'll continue taking supplements till I've exhausted my current supply. Furthermore I am encouraged by the efficacy of caffeine in mitigating some of my symptoms, and have also gained some minor relief from a healthier diet and Vitamin C supplementation. As such, I may try the targeted herpes virus stack you detailed sometime down the line.

Did you also go vegan.

Can't say I went full-vegan, but I did adopt a much healthier diet. But, like, I'd expect to eke out at least a little benefit from that. Regardless, I'll have time to try again in the future.

I've found fair-to-decent results with niacin and Benadryl, such that a climax on niacin while in POIS instantly gave me 50% relief. I'll be investigating further when I have a chance.

[Nas]

Hi Everyone

Since I have been very careful about the issue of my posture, I have had no pain in my spine for several weeks. But the other day I had a headache and had to take a painkiller called Neosaldine (dipyrone, isometepteno mucate, caffeine). One tablet was enough and I did not have to take another. One day after taking this painkiller I did masturbation 2 times the same day (1 pm and 7 pm). I had no POIS symptom. This had not happened to me for a long time. As I have always mentioned if I have my spine healthy and pain free, I have practically no symptoms but this time I had no symptoms. I felt as if I had not had an orgasm. I had no muscle tension, no fatigue, nothing! It may have been the effect of the painkiller the day before that was still working on my body. Possibly by blocking the action of prostaglandins.

It is not the cure, but have no symptons is very interesting. Maybe if we balance the things (colateral effects, happiness, etc..), may be interesting to have a tablet the day before orgasm if we can have nothing happening with our body after the orgasm. We can try to do things in a moderate way so that you can have orgasms at one time or another.

When will I ever have this experience :/

[EurekaMoments]

Hi All,
Would appreciate some advice on supplements to help get rid of POIS symptom.

Abit of background, my nose tends to be super sensitive causing non stop sneezing and flu after masturbation (edging). If I ejaculate, my symptom tend to be worse and I find that taking antihistamine does help a little.

Read through a few articles via different sources and I believe I am currently in the group of undermethylated and taking Sam-E might help. I also have an autoimmune disorder with low blood platelets so I would like to avoid taking turmeric which tends to cause blood thinning.

My questions are as follow:
1. Is it OK to take SAM-E as a standalone supplement or should I be taking it with other forms of vitamin? (I'm currently taking multivitamin-which has the necessary vitamin b, zinc), standalone vitamin c and zinc for immunity and occasionally additional vitamin b complex - once every 3 or 4 days since I have it in my multivitamins)
2. How long do you guys continuously take Sam-e? Do I need to continuously take the supplements till I have no more further symptoms?

Any other advice is much appreciated for my flu and sensitive nose problem after orgasm. Brain fog tend to be minor but heal up fast within a day or two. I tend to have a very sensitive nose since young which cause alot of problems when exposed to dust.

Thank you!

[nanna1]

Can't say I went full-vegan, but I did adopt a much healthier diet. But, like, I'd expect to eke out at least a little benefit from that. Regardless, I'll have time to try again in the future.

Hi Bombadier,

  It is great that you are eating healthier and feeling better. Good health is always positive. There are some aspects of the vegan diet that I did not fully appreciate when I first wrote the original post. I knew that eating vegan made me feel better, but I didn't always connect it with the my understanding of how the POIS Cascade stack worked. I think now I can explain a little better why going full-vegan is important.
  Part of the goal in the POIS Cascade Stack is to replace arachidonic acid (AA) with other omega fatty acids that do not produce inflammatory prostaglandins like PGE₂. The reason for eating a vegan diet is that plants do not produce arachidonic acid (AA). Eicosanoids are a group of mostly inflammatory molecules (like prostaglandin PGE₂ and Leukotriene LTB₄) produced from the arachidonic acid cascade when AA is oxidized by COX or LOX enzymes. In the study Ref1, they show that omega-3 fatty acids like EPA can only reduce inflammatory prostaglandins from the AA cascade when dietary AA consumption from food is eliminated. They tested 4 groups of animals, (1)the control group (OA) with a normal healthy diet, (2)a group fed a high-AA/low-EPA diet (AA), (3)a group fed a low-AA/high-EPA diet (EPA), (4)a group fed an equal amount of AA and EPA (AA+EPA). The total eicosanoids produced from the AA cascade are summed (pooled) in the below chart.

Figure from Ref1.

  This (AA+EPA) result shows that it does not matter how healthy a diet seems to be. If the amount of AA in the diet is significant, then omega-3 supplementation has very little effect on reducing AA and its effects in the body. Other studies testing AA+DHA show similar results. This is because cell walls in the body have a preference to store AA over omega-3s. I'm still not sure how CLA works, but it seems to modify the body's composition of other omega fatty acids (shifting the type of fat that the body stores).

  A more detailed look at the data shows that a low-AA/high-EPA diet (EPA) not only reduces inflammatory molecules (PGE₂, PGF_2a, LTB₄, LTE₄), but it also boost the relatively anti-inflammatory molecule LTE₅.

Figure from Ref1.

"Dietary AA is almost exclusively associated with animal products." (Ref1)

  The omega-6 arachidonic acid is only produced naturally in animal fat. The below table shows some of the foods with the highest AA content.

Figure from Ref1.

  This means that removing AA from your diet will probably mean removing all sources of animal fat from your diet (vegan diet). If you are not on a low-AA diet, I don't see any advantage to taking omega-3 supplements. Only when you are on a low-AA (vegan) diet should you expect benefits from the omega-3s in the POIS Cascade stack.

  It is important to note that most inflammatory molecules (i.e. cytokines, histamine, etc...) rely upon the arachidonic acid cascade to cause inflammation. If the AA cascade is blocked, molecules like histamine and IL-8 cannot produce inflammation or inflammatory diseases. Vegan diets are typically low in vitamin D3, vitamin B12 and creatine. But a vegan diet supplemented with vitamin D3, B12 and a methyl-donor (betaine TMG) should in-principle reduce inflammation throughout the body and produce better health. My medical test show that my recent markers for inflammation are low (9. platelet counts, 9. sedimentation rate, 10. cholesterol, 12. homocysteine, 13. tryptase). Also, I rarely get DOMS from exercise any more. Maybe that means something or maybe it doesn't. In any case, I'm sorry for the confusion on my part. I did not always understand how important this type of diet was to my results. But I hope this clarifies the significance of the vegan diet in this stack.

-----------------------------------------

  For those that cannot eat vegan, an alternative way of reducing prostaglandins and inflammation is to take COX and NF-kappaB inhibitors. For example, taking one (only one) of the follow COX inhibitors:
--Aspirin (500mg, 90 minutes pre-activity)
--Indomethacin (50mg, 2 hours pre-activity, with food, 4.5-hour half-life)
--Naproxen (500mg, 3 hours pre-activity, with food, 8-hour half-life)

and some of the following NF-kappaB inhibitors:
--vitamin D3 (2000-4000 IU daily, sublingual)
--caffeine (65-100mg,  90 minutes pre-activity)
--Tylenol/Paracetamol/acetaminophen (250-500mg, 95 - 115 minutes pre-activity)
--selenium/selenomethione (100-200 mcg daily, dosage depends on the amount of selenium from diet)

  Flavonoids like luteolin, quercetin and curcumin can also downregulate NF-kB and inhibit COX, but only when they are consumed daily over time through food, teas and/or supplements (see post1, post2).

  All COX inhibitors have vasoconstriction properties since most protaglandins (like PGE₂) are vasodilators. Caffeine and paracetamol are also vasoconstrictors (see Betaherpesvirinae stack and About Vasoconstrictors notes). Naproxen has an 8-hour half-life and can help reduce nocturnal emission (NE) induced POIS when taken before bed-time. However, naproxen has more side-effects than aspirin or indomethacin when taken daily over several months. Some anti-histamine medications such as Benadryl (diphenhydramine) and Claritin (loratadine) are associated with long-term memory loss and cognitive decline (see post). Zyrtec/Xyzal (cetirizine/levocetirizine) and Allegra (fexofenadine) are not associated with cognitive decline. Consult with your physician or medical care professional before taking pharmaceutical drugs. Make sure these do not interact with your current medications.

Ref1: "Antithetic relationship of dietary arachidonic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid on eicosanoid production in vivo" (1994)

[helpwithpois]

Hi Nanna,

Can you please respond to my second post above?

Best,
Derek

[aswinpras06]

Hi Nanna1

"omega-3 fatty acids like EPA can only reduce inflammatory prostaglandins from the AA cascade when dietary AA consumption from food is eliminated"

But most fishes contain both aa and omega 3.  So eating fish should not provide any inflammation reducing effect isn't it.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/38903-foods-high-arachidonic-acid/

But fish finds a prominent place is most of inflammation reducing diets.  How this happens?  Any idea

https://www.bustle.com/p/14-foods-that-reduce-inflammation-which-you-didnt-know-8870860

[NotSoPrettyWoman]

Hi!
I will go through this you have written carefully, it is in line with what I think is wrong with me. I am a woman. I don't pretend to understand much of what you have written, however, I have noticed this:

After orgasm I become "ugly" - a sharper face sort of thing, but not in a good way
If I eat a lot of meat and very little fat, same thing happens. I look better when I eat more easy carbs, but I don't tolerate carbs very well for IBS reasons. When I eat carbs and don't play with myself my face is more rounded. I have seen the same kind of features on other women with very low cortisol. I get the same kind of ugly face from coffee or other foods that affect the adrenals.

Men can supposedly, maybe, see if a woman masturbates a lot and they are more attracted to those who masturbates a lot. (This is from some of this bad research, you know: fifteen college kids look at photos, so I can't be bothered to find reference.)

Anyway, meat contains also arachidonic acid.

Interested to hear if you think there could be a connection.

I am thinking that if I figure out this problem I have, then also my general chronic fatigue might improve.

[Hopeoneday]

Hi Allwomansarepreety, it is intresting that you mention facial change after sex or masturbation(my awatar) it is wel known that some poisers hawe "mad _zombee" facilall change(couse could be hi adrenals).

About meat diaet, i dont know , ebiybary is diferent, i folow my logic and comon sense, managing AA cascade culd mybe help for some of as BUT...(99% procent people eat meat 24/7 in my country, non of them probbly hawe pois and wery les procent of inflamatory desees).

I like nana , he is smart guy, BUT i dont think that AA is root couse of our problem, simply evidence is guys on GLC(goinglescrazy) tread whos are complitly cured pois by foloving Aip , paleo, hi fat an meats low carbs diets etc diets.

[Bombardier]

Can't say I went full-vegan, but I did adopt a much healthier diet. But, like, I'd expect to eke out at least a little benefit from that. Regardless, I'll have time to try again in the future.

Hi Bombadier,

  It is great that you are eating healthier and feeling better. Good health is always positive. There are some aspects of the vegan diet that I did not fully appreciate when I first wrote the original post. I knew that eating vegan made me feel better, but I didn't always connect it with the my understanding of how the POIS Cascade stack worked. I think now I can explain a little better why going full-vegan is important.
  Part of the goal in the POIS Cascade Stack is to replace arachidonic acid (AA) with other omega fatty acids that do not produce inflammatory prostaglandins like PGE₂. The reason for eating a vegan diet is that plants do not produce arachidonic acid (AA). Eicosanoids are a group of mostly inflammatory molecules (like prostaglandin PGE₂ and Leukotriene LTB₄) produced from the arachidonic acid cascade when AA is oxidized by COX or LOX enzymes. In the study Ref1, they show that omega-3 fatty acids like EPA can only reduce inflammatory prostaglandins from the AA cascade when dietary AA consumption from food is eliminated. They tested 4 groups of animals, (1)the control group (OA) with a normal healthy diet, (2)a group fed a high-AA/low-EPA diet (AA), (3)a group fed a low-AA/high-EPA diet (EPA), (4)a group fed an equal amount of AA and EPA (AA+EPA). The total eicosanoids produced from the AA cascade are summed (pooled) in the below chart.

Figure from Ref1.

  This (AA+EPA) result shows that it does not matter how healthy a diet seems to be. If the amount of AA in the diet is significant, then omega-3 supplementation has very little effect on reducing AA and its effects in the body. Other studies testing AA+DHA show similar results. This is because cell walls in the body have a preference to store AA over omega-3s. I'm still not sure how CLA works, but it seems to modify the body's composition of other omega fatty acids (shifting the type of fat that the body stores).

  A more detailed look at the data shows that a low-AA/high-EPA diet (EPA) not only reduces inflammatory molecules (PGE₂, PGF_2a, LTB₄, LTE₄), but it also boost the relatively anti-inflammatory molecule LTE₅.

Figure from Ref1.

"Dietary AA is almost exclusively associated with animal products." (Ref1)

  The omega-6 arachidonic acid is only produced naturally in animal fat. The below table shows some of the foods with the highest AA content.

Figure from Ref1.

  This means that removing AA from your diet will probably mean removing all sources of animal fat from your diet (vegan diet). If you are not on a low-AA diet, I don't see any advantage to taking omega-3 supplements. Only when you are on a low-AA (vegan) diet should you expect benefits from the omega-3s in the POIS Cascade stack.

  It is important to note that most inflammatory molecules (i.e. cytokines, histamine, etc...) rely upon the arachidonic acid cascade to cause inflammation. If the AA cascade is blocked, molecules like histamine and IL-8 cannot produce inflammation or inflammatory diseases. Vegan diets are typically low in vitamin D3, vitamin B12 and creatine. But a vegan diet supplemented with vitamin D3, B12 and a methyl-donor (betaine TMG) should in-principle reduce inflammation throughout the body and produce better health. My medical test show that my recent markers for inflammation are low (9. platelet counts, 9. sedimentation rate, 10. cholesterol, 12. homocysteine, 13. tryptase). Also, I rarely get DOMS from exercise any more. Maybe that means something or maybe it doesn't. In any case, I'm sorry for the confusion on my part. I did not always understand how important this type of diet was to my results. But I hope this clarifies the significance of the vegan diet in this stack.

-----------------------------------------

  For those that cannot eat vegan, an alternative way of reducing prostaglandins and inflammation is to take COX and NF-kappaB inhibitors. For example, taking one (only one) of the follow COX inhibitors:
--Aspirin (500mg, 90 minutes pre-activity)
--Indomethacin (50mg, 2 hours pre-activity, with food, 4.5-hour half-life)
--Naproxen (500mg, 3 hours pre-activity, with food, 8-hour half-life)

and some of the following NF-kappaB inhibitors:
--vitamin D3 (2000-4000 IU daily, sublingual)
--caffeine (65-100mg,  90 minutes pre-activity)
--Tylenol/Paracetamol/acetaminophen (250-500mg, 95 - 115 minutes pre-activity)
--selenium/selenomethione (100-200 mcg daily, dosage depends on the amount of selenium from diet)

  Flavonoids like luteolin, quercetin and curcumin can also downregulate NF-kB and inhibit COX, but only when they are consumed daily over time through food, teas and/or supplements (see post1, post2).

  All COX inhibitors have vasoconstriction properties since most protaglandins (like PGE₂) are vasodilators. Caffeine and paracetamol are also vasoconstrictors (see Betaherpesvirinae stack and About Vasoconstrictors notes). Naproxen has an 8-hour half-life and can help reduce nocturnal emission (NE) induced POIS when taken before bed-time. However, naproxen has more side-effects than aspirin or indomethacin when taken daily over several months. Some anti-histamine medications such as Benadryl (diphenhydramine) and Claritin (loratadine) are associated with long-term memory loss and cognitive decline (see post). Zyrtec/Xyzal (cetirizine/levocetirizine) and Allegra (fexofenadine) are not associated with cognitive decline. Consult with your physician or medical care professional before taking pharmaceutical drugs. Make sure these do not interact with your current medications.

Ref1: "Antithetic relationship of dietary arachidonic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid on eicosanoid production in vivo" (1994)

Oof... You know Nanna, I think you might be onto something here. Over this weekend I'd accidentally adhered to a vegan diet (bread, cereal, vegetables, and hot sauce), and felt utterly spectacular. My thinking was quicker, I was much more articulate, and I generally felt the best I had in weeks. But then I took a risk and tried to treat myself to a pizza last night, and things have since become a bit difficult. I've read you have problems with cheese as well, so you can understand the sort of miniature POIS episode I'm going through right now.

I'll be returning to the special diet I mentioned, and adhering to it strictly henceforth. I'll also start taking supplements again. Thanks for all your help.

EDIT: Just wanting to give a quick update on my case. Unfortunately I'm one of those POISers who gets light-to-moderate symptoms from both eating and taking showers (hot or cold). However as I type this, I've just concluded almost a full week of eating vegan, and I can say with certainty that things have improved in my day-to-day life. I'm now more spry, more agile, and my mind is the clearest it's been in nearly a year. I still get headaches and general brain fog after eating, but these are much weaker than before. It is also worth noting that I had to stop supplementation of the POIS Cascade Stack due to health reasons, but will be returning to it soon.

[nanna1]

Hi Nanna,

Can you please respond to my second post above?

Best,
Derek

Hi Derek,

  I try to avoid discussing the cause of POIS on this thread. For discussions about the root cause of POIS, I would refer you to the following post:
---Ideas on Herpes Induced POIS
---Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results - Discussion Thread

  Also, there may be an immune component to POIS (see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2695.msg24966#msg24966). This still needs further validation to become a POIS biomarker.

Hi Nanna1

"omega-3 fatty acids like EPA can only reduce inflammatory prostaglandins from the AA cascade when dietary AA consumption from food is eliminated"

But most fishes contain both aa and omega 3.  So eating fish should not provide any inflammation reducing effect isn't it.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/38903-foods-high-arachidonic-acid/

But fish finds a prominent place is most of inflammation reducing diets.  How this happens?  Any idea

https://www.bustle.com/p/14-foods-that-reduce-inflammation-which-you-didnt-know-8870860

Hi aswinpras06,

  I'm sorry if what I have said before was confusing. Omega-3 fatty acids reduce inflammation, and usually omega-3 supplements are purified to increase the omega-3:omega-6 ratio or remove omega-6 entirely. One should always check the supplement label to make sure that omega-6 has been removed. But fish consumption does not reduce inflammation in any diet. There are no studies showing fish consumption reduces inflammation. When interpreting the result of these types of studies, it is important to consider that the control group is also meat eaters. The control group that scientist usually compare fish diets to are other meat (pork, beef, etc...) containing diets. Fish can increase CFS (link, video) and reduce DNA telomere length (video). Meaning that whole-fish consumption accelerates aging.

  Fish is not less inflammatory than vegetables. Compared to a complete vegan diet, a similar fish containing diet will increase inflammation, disease (such as cancer) and aging (video). The Mediterranean diet is a fish/chicken containing (low-meat/no-dairy) diet. The meat in the Mediterranean diet is only to supply protein and calories. The Mediterranean diet contains natural COX inhibitors from olive oil, oregano and thyme. It also contains large amounts of sulfur containing antioxidants like N-acetylcysteine from onions and garlic. The COX inhibitors and antioxidants in the Mediteranean diet help reduce the inflammatory effects of fish when the fish consumption is kept low.
 
  In general, herbs and spices (tumeric, oregano, thyme, cinnamon, ginger, cumin) and high-sulfur containing vegetables (Allium and cruciferous vegetables) are the main anti-inflammatory components of diets. Many other fruits, vegetables and nuts can also reduce inflammation depending on how they are cooked and prepared. Meat, dairy and simple carbs are the main pro-inflammatory components of most diets. This video from Professor Katherine Richman at the UC San Diego Medical Center explains in detail the science behind what I described (Healthy Wealthy and Wise: Diet for Healthy Aging - Research on Aging). I tried to skip to the part of the video that discusses fish directly, but if you start from the begining of the video, this response will make more sense. I hope that clarifies things.

After orgasm I become "ugly" - a sharper face sort of thing, but not in a good way
If I eat a lot of meat and very little fat, same thing happens. I look better when I eat more easy carbs, but I don't tolerate carbs very well for IBS reasons. When I eat carbs and don't play with myself my face is more rounded. I have seen the same kind of features on other women with very low cortisol. I get the same kind of ugly face from coffee or other foods that affect the adrenals.

Hi ...SoPrettyWoman,

  Inflammation in the body can cause swelling and/or irritation of the skin layers which shows physically. I'm not sure if this is what is going on in your case. You may be interesting in reading the responses of female POISers to see if you can relate to these (post: Women with Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome). There may be some symptoms which are more common in women.

Men can supposedly, maybe, see if a woman masturbates a lot and they are more attracted to those who masturbates a lot. (This is from some of this bad research, you know: fifteen college kids look at photos, so I can't be bothered to find reference.)

  Men are more attracted to happier women. So if masturbation makes a woman less depressed then she may appear more attractive.

  Men are also more attracted to red (color) faces (red lips, red cheeks, red makeup, etc...). When women are aroused, blood rushes to their skin making it look redder due to vasodilation. During orgasm, the amount of blood flow to the skin can dramatically increase in some cases (sex flush). The extra blood flow can also change the physical shape of the face as well. If women who masturbate often are also aroused more often, then this could be another reason why they appear more attractive.

  People who are aroused, tend to have more dilated eye pupils. Men who see a woman with dilated eye pupils may find her more attractive (article). Sorry I could not be of more help.

[Vandemolen]

This is a long topic. I got  2 questions. Maybe the answer is somewhere here but it would take a lot of time to scroll down 24 pages.

1. Nanna, I bought the pills for your stack. But everytime I scared of how many pills I have to take beside the ones I am taking now (Fexofenadin, cefuroxim, amitriptyline, taurine, iron, vitamin D, cranberry pills, garlic pills). My question is: is it ok to mix your stack in 1 or 2 drinks?
2. Beside Nanna, is there someone else who finds relief of Nanna’s stack?

[Scrub]

This is a long topic. I got  2 questions. Maybe the answer is somewhere here but it would take a lot of time to scroll down 24 pages.

1. Nanna, I bought the pills for your stack. But everytime I scared of how many pills I have to take beside the ones I am taking now (Fexofenadin, cefuroxim, amitriptyline, taurine, iron, vitamin D, cranberry pills, garlic pills). My question is: is it ok to mix your stack in 1 or 2 drinks?
2. Beside Nanna, is there someone else who finds relief of Nanna’s stack?

Which one is his current stack? 

[Vandemolen]

This is a long topic. I got  2 questions. Maybe the answer is somewhere here but it would take a lot of time to scroll down 24 pages.

1. Nanna, I bought the pills for your stack. But everytime I scared of how many pills I have to take beside the ones I am taking now (Fexofenadin, cefuroxim, amitriptyline, taurine, iron, vitamin D, cranberry pills, garlic pills). My question is: is it ok to mix your stack in 1 or 2 drinks?
2. Beside Nanna, is there someone else who finds relief of Nanna’s stack?

Which one is his current stack?

I bought this. Don’t know if it is the current stack:
SAM-e
Vit B6
Vit B11
Vit B12
Alpha-gpc
Vit B1
Omega 3 fish oil
Vit D3

[Scrub]

This is a long topic. I got  2 questions. Maybe the answer is somewhere here but it would take a lot of time to scroll down 24 pages.

1. Nanna, I bought the pills for your stack. But everytime I scared of how many pills I have to take beside the ones I am taking now (Fexofenadin, cefuroxim, amitriptyline, taurine, iron, vitamin D, cranberry pills, garlic pills). My question is: is it ok to mix your stack in 1 or 2 drinks?
2. Beside Nanna, is there someone else who finds relief of Nanna’s stack?

Which one is his current stack?

I bought this. Don’t know if it is the current stack:
SAM-e
Vit B6
Vit B11
Vit B12
Alpha-gpc
Vit B1
Omega 3 fish oil
Vit D3

I tried everything there except for Alpha GPC and SAM-e and didn't have any success. Would like to try SAM-e, but here (M?xico) it's expensive and only available as a patent drug, not a supplement. Alpha GPC is also hard to get here.

[swell]

Scrub:  Alpha-GPC should be no problem.  Instead if you search for 'Lecithin' and preferably non-GMO Sunflower Lecithin.  It is a potent source for choline as alpha-gpc is.

[itsmel]

Hi,

I just want to report in that nanna1 POIS stack works for me. Bear in mind that I do have an issue with MTHFR where person cannot optimally process folate (B9). The supplements I started with is a brand Seeking Heath B12+L-5-MTHF which only has these 2 ingredients then I switched over to Thorne Methyl-Guard which adds the additional B6 and TMG. Plus SAMe Jarrows Forumulas. I also have Alpha-GPC which I have not tried yet but soon, more on this later due to a article I found.

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/08/12/living-with-mthfr/

"6) Be careful with SAMe. SAMe supplements support methylation, but MTHFR mutations increase the use of glycine to buffer SAMe levels, even when you don?t have enough. While I do not make a blanket recommendation against supplementing with SAMe, I caution against its use in this context because it could aggravate the loss of glycine. If you use it, be careful, and consider monitoring your glycine levels (see recommended lab tests below)."

If @nana1 can respond to this it will be great.

So my results are the following, I only took the supplements for 3 days and decided to O after one year of abstinence. First I watched porn to test the waters, usually watching porn for prolong of time I would usually feeling the symptoms coming up. After not feeling any adverse reaction I went a head and O on day 1. Nothing happens. Alright this is cool, I usually would get messed up and not function till after a week. Ok so then I would take this and see how far I can go. Day 2, I O 2x on the same day back to back, you heard me, this is like suicide in the POIS world. This would probably kill me considering the fact I O the day before. Nothing happens in terms of mental capacity besides feeling bit sleepy but to my surprise I function as normal. Day 3, I again try to push my luck. I O once again but this time took Excerdrin, after O I would feel tired but the caffeine kicked in and I feel great. That's going to conclude my multiple O test. I think I can safely say my POIS is cured and I can finally move on as a normal person.

On the physical aspect after an O,
1. My face looks like I aged several years.
2. My face would feel saggy or loose but after taking Excerdrin, my face feels nice and firm but I don't know which ingredients from Excerdrin caused this.

It seems to me that this stack only works with people who have MTHFR issues so therefore it will not work for everyone.

Thanks nana1.

[Vandemolen]

Hi,

I just want to report in that nanna1 POIS stack works for me. Bear in mind that I do have an issue with MTHFR where person cannot optimally process folate (B9). The supplements I started with is a brand Seeking Heath B12+L-5-MTHF which only has these 2 ingredients then I switched over to Thorne Methyl-Guard which adds the additional B6 and TMG. Plus SAMe Jarrows Forumulas. I also have Alpha-GPC which I have not tried yet but soon, more on this later due to a article I found.

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/08/12/living-with-mthfr/

"6) Be careful with SAMe. SAMe supplements support methylation, but MTHFR mutations increase the use of glycine to buffer SAMe levels, even when you don?t have enough. While I do not make a blanket recommendation against supplementing with SAMe, I caution against its use in this context because it could aggravate the loss of glycine. If you use it, be careful, and consider monitoring your glycine levels (see recommended lab tests below)."

If @nana1 can respond to this it will be great.

So my results are the following, I only took the supplements for 3 days and decided to O after one year of abstinence. First I watched porn to test the waters, usually watching porn for prolong of time I would usually feeling the symptoms coming up. After not feeling any adverse reaction I went a head and O on day 1. Nothing happens. Alright this is cool, I usually would get messed up and not function till after a week. Ok so then I would take this and see how far I can go. Day 2, I O 2x on the same day back to back, you heard me, this is like suicide in the POIS world. This would probably kill me considering the fact I O the day before. Nothing happens in terms of mental capacity besides feeling bit sleepy but to my surprise I function as normal. Day 3, I again try to push my luck. I O once again but this time took Excerdrin, after O I would feel tired but the caffeine kicked in and I feel great. That's going to conclude my multiple O test. I think I can safely say my POIS is cured and I can finally move on as a normal person.

On the physical aspect after an O,
1. My face looks like I aged several years.
2. My face would feel saggy or loose but after taking Excerdrin, my face feels nice and firm but I don't know which ingredients from Excerdrin caused this.

It seems to me that this stack only works with people who have MTHFR issues so therefore it will not work for everyone.

Thanks nana1.

That’s great that it worked for you. The stack has changed. I thought that I did buy everything. But now I see some things I bought aren’t in the stack anymore. For example DHA fishoil.

To be sure you took this everything on his new list but only not the SAMe?

The POIS Cascade stack:
On an empty stomach with water or juice, twice daily (water soluble):
---SAM-e (enteric coated)(200mg) [terminal methyl donor, a1A downregulator]
---pyridoxine HCl, vitamin B6 (2mg - 25mg) [homocysteine regulator]
---Folate, vitamin B9 (200mcg) [methyl group cycler]
---cyanocobalamin, vitamin B12 (>50mcg, sublingual) [methyl group cycler]
---Pick from one of the following three methyl group donors:
    1. tri-methylglycine, betaine (1.5g) [methyl group donor]
    2. alpha-glycerophosphocholine, alpha-GPC (1.2g) [methyl group donor]
    3. phosphatidylcholine, Lecithin concentrate (1.5g) [methyl group donor] (take with food)
With food, twice daily (fat soluble):
---conjugated linoleic acid, CLA (2g) [NF-kB inhibitor and COX-2 downregulator]
---vitamin D3 (1000 IU) [NF-kB inhibitor and COX-2/IDO/TDO down-regulator]

Betaherpesvirinae stack:
Taken 90 minutes prior to sexual activity (prepack):
Vasoconstrictors:
---(Paracetamol 250mg, indomethacin 50mg, caffeine 65mg)
NF-kB/cytokine regulators:
---vitamin D3 (2000IU sublingual)
---Betaine-TMG (2g)
---N-acetylcysteine (1.2g)
---selenomethionine (100 micrograms)

[itsmel]

That’s great that it worked for you. The stack has changed. I thought that I did buy everything. But now I see some things I bought aren’t in the stack anymore. For example DHA fishoil.

To be sure you took this everything on his new list but only not the SAMe?

The POIS Cascade stack:
On an empty stomach with water or juice, twice daily (water soluble):
---SAM-e (enteric coated)(200mg) [terminal methyl donor, a1A downregulator]
---pyridoxine HCl, vitamin B6 (2mg - 25mg) [homocysteine regulator]
---Folate, vitamin B9 (200mcg) [methyl group cycler]
---cyanocobalamin, vitamin B12 (>50mcg, sublingual) [methyl group cycler]
---Pick from one of the following three methyl group donors:
    1. tri-methylglycine, betaine (1.5g) [methyl group donor]
    2. alpha-glycerophosphocholine, alpha-GPC (1.2g) [methyl group donor]
    3. phosphatidylcholine, Lecithin concentrate (1.5g) [methyl group donor] (take with food)
With food, twice daily (fat soluble):
---conjugated linoleic acid, CLA (2g) [NF-kB inhibitor and COX-2 downregulator]
---vitamin D3 (1000 IU) [NF-kB inhibitor and COX-2/IDO/TDO down-regulator]

Betaherpesvirinae stack:
Taken 90 minutes prior to sexual activity (prepack):
Vasoconstrictors:
---(Paracetamol 250mg, indomethacin 50mg, caffeine 65mg)
NF-kB/cytokine regulators:
---vitamin D3 (2000IU sublingual)
---Betaine-TMG (2g)
---N-acetylcysteine (1.2g)
---selenomethionine (100 micrograms)

Hi Vandemolen,

I have not seen the old list so no but I still have not acquire all the supplements in this current nana1 stack. I take Thorne Methyl-Guard which contains B6, B9, B12 and TMG. Then SAMe from Jarrows. This already covers most of nana1 stack. Excerdrin from Betaherpesvirinae stack. Actually forgot to mention I also tried NAC but stopped taking cause I have issues with histamine.

The next supplements I would like to try would be CLA and Alpha-GPC.

[Vandemolen]

Ok so you took excerdrin instead of Paracetamol, indomethacin and caffeine? In The Netherlands you need a doctor’s prescription for indomethacin. But excerdrin is for sale.