POIS cure: theory & supplement stack

[Fernando from Brazil]

Nurse

I try to take only antihistamines. I avoid the anti inflammatory and analgesic and only take these in last case.
After orgasm I take Allegra D in the morning and Fenergan near bedtime because it is sedative.
When I need taking anti-inflammatory or analgesic take Tandrilax (Acetaminophen, Caffeine, Carisoprodol, Diclofenac Sodium) 1 tablet every 8 h, but this is the case I am in pain and tension in the spine.
I also drink coffee in the morning and afternoon and it helps keep my brain working well.
I took Arcalion 3 times daily (Sulbutiamine 200 mg) the last few times but it seems that the effect was not very significant. Maybe I have to increase the dose. Sulbutiamine is a potent form of vitamin B1 used to increase mental and physical energy.
I take 200 mg of taurine every time I have symptoms (3 x daily).
As I mentioned, the times I tried to take all this without the anti histamines, the effect seemed too small, which leads me to believe that the target is the release of histamine. What needs to be done is to lower this starting point. For me what works as prevention is the health of my spine and health of the vagus nerve. Postural exercises, Aerobic exercises and no stressed events near the time of the orgasm.

[Quantum]

I'm glad you shared that with us dizzy and I agree with you that the side effects can be quite scary. Especially the synthetic forms, you can gain tolerance and have withdrawal symptoms. All the most common prescriptions coming out of pharmacies will mess you up one way or another down the line and then they will prescribe more to treat your symptoms lol. You have to keep in mind that certain treatments put your health on the line just so you can get instant gratification. Also if you supplement too heavily the body might think oh I don't have to produce as much anymore of xyz. Try to keep things as natural as possible because honestly until we have some real powerful diagnostic tools in the medical industry, we really do know what is going on. Going to the doctors they all run the same generic tests hoping for a hit but, yea that is another topic.. Is it really worth it for an fleeting orgasm?


I'm just happy because now I can have a happy and responsible sex life and also function in society without having to heavily plan around it. I'm not using my stack so i can blow my load constantly. I'm grateful for it and I'm not going to take advantage of it. 1-2 a week max. For the supplements i do take regularly I make sure they are within range of obtaining them through dietary means. So low dose for daily life and then high dose, day of O.   Pills can only do so much for us and the rest is based on our lifestyle. Do you have good friends, have good/healthy coping mechanism, exercise, eat well, and ect. For the past  couple years I really zoned in on nutrition because that exacerbated my pois. Frozen foods, fast food, deceptive serving sizes (who eats 5 chips, I kill the whole bag lol), sodium, high fructose corn syrup, and ect. All this stuff causes inflammation through various reasons and mechanisms. Anyway, i'm rambling. Oh and dizzy I have 90percent of your symptoms.

Hi Nurse,

I totally agree that a healthy diet is important to lower POIS symptoms, and I also agree that once or twice a week is probably the most often we can have releases, even if we have a good stack/pre-pack to control our symptoms.  More than that, the cumulative effect of POIS seems too much to handle.

[Nurse86]

How come allegra-d? Have you tried antihistamines without pseudoephendrine? Personally I prefer benadryl for allergic reactions but it makes you drowsy. I would definitely not increase that dosage for sulbutiamine; 600mg is ALOT. If you take it more than you don't then you will gain tolerance and have withdrawal symptoms. The first week i tried my stack i did 2 os for 4 days straight and was good, along with my lifestyle regimen. The 5th day however was a different story. 2nd week I'm doing good again. 1st week was just a test and I literally sat on the floor saying to myself holyshoot, this is actually working for me.

Personally I think you are gaining benefits from the stimulants in your stack by activating your adrenergic receptors, pseudoephedrine is a strong stimulant from Allegra-D, Caffeine from your Tandrilax, Caffeine from your coffee and sulbutiamine but then you also have depressants. This is not a good long term solution though. You also say you don't get symptoms during sex which also leads me to believe your adrenergic system plays a role in it. I have to do more research if i'm not lazy lol. When someone has a severe allergic reaction, epinephrine is administered first hand and then possibly antihistamine 2nd. Masturbation is very low physical activity vs sex. Brain activation is also different such as talking to people through texting vs talking in person.

I've tried psuedoephedrine also in the past. It made me ejaculate when not having sex. In social situation i would be excited and stimulated (not sexually and then when i pee, i ejaculated.)

I'm interested in your vagus nerve suggestion as I do have pain but nothing substantial. My bowel movement have been weird and POIS has effected it. Personally for me I think it is because the muscles become overactivated either smooth and  skeletal. These hormones have short half-lives but these effected cells seem to have more receptors or prolong its effects well after it is gone. It has been a longggg time since i studied neurotransmission. If we had better diagnostic tools, this would be easier to pinpoint. I think the muscle relaxer is providing you that relief. Instead of all these stimulants, i suggest replacing it with exercise. Walking/jogging/sprints and light weight training but the whole body.

Yeah quantum, everything in moderation.

[Rinat]

Dizzy,i had the same simptoms after taking b1.

[Nurse86]

What strength did you take of b1? High dose and low B1 gets processed differently in the body.

How long were you taking 150mg before going to 300mg? Do you take it once a day? Do you take any other supplements or medication?

[Rinat]

At the begining 150 mg ,then 300

[Muon]

I got problems breathing. As in: I had to think about breathing, otherwise it felt like my body/brain just didn't do it automatically. Quite scary. At one point I was afraid to go to sleep. Fortunately, all turned out well, but I'm more careful with B1 now.

I've got this symptom as well and don't take B1. It only happens during hot weather conditions. Are you sure the B1 is responsible for this?

[dizzy]

@Muon

Yes, I'm pretty sure it was the B1. The reason I know is that B1 was having such good effect on me, that I really tried a number of times to start using it again, and every time I got the same effect on breathing (although I tried lower doses later, so the effect was milder).

[CuriousCharacter]

Really fantastic work here. Thanks so much for all your contributions, nanna1!

I'm interested in trying this out. I have Thorne's Stress B-Complex sitting in my cupboard, which seems to include many of the ingredients in nanna1's POIS Cascade stack:

* 25mg Pyridoxine HCI
* 200mcg folate (L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate)
* 100mcg B12 (in the form of methylcobalamin)

And it includes some additional ingredients:

* Thiamin HCI (50mg)
* Riboflavin (28.6mg)
* Niacin (80mg)
* Biotin (70mcg)
* Pantothenic acid (250mg)
* Choline (14mg)

Would this be an acceptable substitute for the B vitamins in the POIS cascade stack?

[nanna1]

Hi CuriousCharacter,

  Thanks for the question! The B vitamins in your Stress B seem fine. I take low dose B vitamins daily, but I know there are many who take high dose B vitamins as a prepack. My B6 dose is low (2mg), which helps prevent tolerance. However, my original stack contained higher thiamine (vitamin B1) and higher choline than what is in your Stress B. I assume you will be using other sources of choline to increase your methyl-donors. If you choose to take this Stress-B as a prepack (taken before orgasm), then you may have to increase B1. But everybody's body is different, so I'm sure with a little experimentation you can find the right balance for you. Nurse86 wrote about a modified stack using vitamin B1 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg24761#msg24761).

  I don't know what effect Riboflavin, Niacin, Biotin, Pantothenic acid will have, but there is a niacin thread here (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958) and here (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2525.msg21809#msg21809).

Thanks again and keep us updated. 

[Rinat]

Have anybody felt hight temperature after taking CLA?

[Bombardier]

Hi CuriousCharacter,

  Thanks for the question! The B vitamins in your Stress B seem fine. I take low dose B vitamins daily, but I know there are many who take high dose B vitamins as a prepack. My B6 dose is low (2mg), which helps prevent tolerance. However, my original stack contained higher thiamine (vitamin B1) and higher choline than what is in your Stress B. I assume you will be using other sources of choline to increase your methyl-donors. If you choose to take this Stress-B as a prepack (taken before orgasm), then you may have to increase B1. But everybody's body is different, so I'm sure with a little experimentation you can find the right balance for you. Nurse86 wrote about a modified stack using vitamin B1 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg24761#msg24761).

  I don't know what effect Riboflavin, Niacin, Biotin, Pantothenic acid will have, but there is a niacin thread here (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958) and here (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2525.msg21809#msg21809).

Thanks again and keep us updated. 

Funny you should mention tolerance, Nanna. I'm currently taking your POIS Cascade Stack (though I haven't had time to test it out), and my biggest fear is developing a tolerance over time. How long have you been able to take it without upping the dose?

[nanna1]

Hi Bombardier,

  For B vitamins, as long as you stay below the daily recommended dose, there is no tolerance. My folate (200mcg) and B6 (2mg) doses are below the daily recommended doses. My B1 and B12 doses are above the daily recommended dose (1mg, 2.5mcg respectively). So there are times when I throttle/cycle them. Usually, when I start taking B12 I will have dreams which is probably from increased neurotransmitter production. After a two or three days the dreams go away. If you have dreams or increased energy from taking B12 then you probably have less than optimum levels (or deficiency). At optimum levels there should not be any increase benefit to increasing the dose. Most people who eat meat 3 times a day will get the daily recommended B12 (2.5mcg). Since my diet on this stack is vegan, I don't get any B12 or D3 from food. So I have to supplement those vitamins.

  There is no tolerance to taking omega-3. Your brain and heart are the main consumers of DHA and EPA and will always consume any excess omega-3. There is no tolerance to excess CLA, but there can be side effects related to too much fat breakdown. I personally have not experienced these side effect.

[helpwithpois]

Hey nanna1,

I am a heavy undermethylater. I have bad undermethylation and took the tests suggested in walsh's protocal. I have extremely high histamine and low in zinc and the protocol I am on now which is zinc 50 mg, p5p 100mg, Sam-e 600mg , vitamin e (400mg), and a couple other supplements. I tried your protocol but I didn't seem to have too much effect (I don't know if i had enough fish oil or alpha gpc). Whenever I have an 0 i get extreme racing heart beat, my throat gets really itchy, flu like symptoms, nausea, etc. I am on a low dose antidepressant and take 15mg of valium and want to get off it but I can't seem to figure out how to stop this.

I can stop 0 for a couple weeks and have a couple without symptoms but then it just keeps coming back. I am always tired and can sleep 12-14 hours a day if I could. There has to be someway to get rid of this. I have tried so many supplements and have wasted thousands on doctors.

Supplements I have tried:
L tryptophan - helps only at extremely high doses
l tryrosine
5 htp
almost all of your protocol
adrenal extracts like adrenal fatigue fighter
Ashwaganda
Vitamin c(helps)
niacin (sometimes can help)
and so much more.

your are really smart and I read some of your posts can we talk and have a chat?

[nanna1]

Have anybody felt hight temperature after taking CLA?

Hi Rinat,

  I personally don't experience a high body temperature from taking CLA alone. When I exercise or do some physical activity like running up stares I do seem to experience a longer increase in body temperature than when I do not take it. I know exercise is suppose to increase body temperature, but usually I cool down pretty fast once I come to rest. My subjective opinion is that CLA can either prolong the increase in body temperature that I would normally experience from exercise, or it causes me to feel less tired so that I exercise longer/harder and burn more calories. This has happen to me sometimes when I drink caffeine beverages. Caffeine makes me feel less tired so I end up doing more work and exercising longer, but CLA does not have the stimulant effect that caffeine has. Either way, I have not measured my body temp while on CLA and compared to not being on CLA. So this is just a subjective opinion. But I can say that apart from activities that consume calories, I have not noticed any CLA effect on my body temperature (increase or decrease). I hope this useful in some way.