Author Topic: POIS treatment: theory & supplement stack  (Read 299545 times)

Hopeoneday

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #200 on: March 22, 2018, 01:19:35 PM »
Acording to Muons case and his labs- https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nc2dt6pcwd5xpmu/AACyyDE6uhY1DHn1fAuxw86Ja?dl=0&preview=Muon+3-6+Th1Th2+part2-4%2BIL4gen+14-08-2015.pdf

I find this- about th1 dominence- https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/supplements-foods-exercise-right-type-th1-vs-th2-dominance/

This realy make sense , if things this guy saying are true.

He sad that he is geneticly predisosed to all this conditions, and he cured him self by lectin avoidence.

He claim to be solved all his problems (genetics colerated) by his diet and suplemetation acording wich dominance th1 th2 lso th17 involwed...

He mention brain fog , autoimune conditions, inflamation ,infections, ebv virus , hpv, fatigue, ibs, low t3, hi cortisol (because HPA acsic must copesate vith hi cortisol), low pregnelone, and most of our symptoms an this linked to diet (LECTIN fod avoidence),damaged gut flora microbiota ,lectins couse also leaky gut=autoimune conditions etc...

My modher have reumatoid artrytis, and now autoimune hashimoto(" i am geneticly same like her") people here claim that they are lowered antibodies with diet avoidence food etc..

« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 02:53:53 PM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

BluesBrother

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #201 on: March 22, 2018, 02:29:25 PM »
I agree, we need more POIS people tested for viral pathogens before clear conclusions can be drawn. But I'm curious, what would a mast cell activation test reveal? Many different things (virus, bacteria, poisons, food allergies, autoimmune disease) lead to mast cell activation. But maybe there is some new information in it? Thanks again Muon for sharing your test, experiences and knowledge on the immune system. It has sparked some discussion.

I haven't posted here in a long time, but I have been reading the amazing discussions. Thanks so much! I have tried the full supplement stack for some months and have experienced some improvement, but far from complete. Recently, I have had a blood test done for mast cell activation, specifically for serum tryptase levels (after reading up a bit on mast cell activation syndrome) The test came back negative. When I did the test, I was not in a POIS phase. The doctor suggested to repeat the test at a time when I would be experiencing symptoms. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how long after orgasm would be the best time to have the test done.
Used to have brain fog, flue-like symptoms, un-refreshing sleep, extreme exhaustion, muscle and joint pain, digestive problems, social anxiety, urge to urinate frequently.
Used niacin in the past. Now using nanna1's maintenance stack. Exhaustion and brain fog now main problem. 3-day POIS cycle

Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #202 on: March 22, 2018, 05:16:00 PM »


I haven't posted here in a long time, but I have been reading the amazing discussions. Thanks so much! I have tried the full supplement stack for some months and have experienced some improvement, but far from complete. Recently, I have had a blood test done for mast cell activation, specifically for serum tryptase levels (after reading up a bit on mast cell activation syndrome) The test came back negative. When I did the test, I was not in a POIS phase. The doctor suggested to repeat the test at a time when I would be experiencing symptoms. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how long after orgasm would be the best time to have the test done.

I'd suggest from an hour before orgasm to two days later. But doing it at the same day almost guarantees it. 

Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #203 on: March 22, 2018, 05:40:03 PM »
Hey, Nanna et al,

So I was wondering how can the desensitization treatment work for the infection theory? According to this article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116118300199 Improvements were noticed after about two years of intralymphatic immunotherapy.
This theory basically proposes that there is an Immune reaction to the semen it self as if it had an antigen that the body reacts against. So how would this make seance in a the infection context ?
Maybe the dormant viruses are triggered by a component in the seminal fluid ? Perhaps while the body is busy getting rid of the semen from our blood stream, the immune system weaken and that triggers the virus ? Very curious. 

Muon

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #204 on: March 22, 2018, 06:11:14 PM »
Hi BluesBrother,

I have been checked for tryptase before and 1-2 hours after orgasm, all negative, same thing for my brother. There are a few other poiscenter members who also have negative results.

Maybe this can be helpful:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC303860/

You will often detect no elevated tryptase in MCAS/POTS patients:
http://n.neurology.org/content/84/14_Supplement/P1.277

Perhaps this lack of tryptase could be explained by a subtype of mast cell, the MCC, which does not store tryptase or selective release plays a role:
''Subtypes of human MC are distinguished by the presence or absence of different serine proteases in their granules (i.e., tryptase+/chymase−: MCT, tryptase+/chymase+: MCTC, and tryptase−/chymase+: MCC)''
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4231949/
 
MCAS and immune system:
https://www.drlam.com/blog/mast-cell-activation-syndrome-the-immune-system-gone-wrong/32795/

''MCAS is a condition that affects multiple systems, generally in an inflammatory manner. Symptoms typically wax and wane over time, varying in severity and duration. Many signs and symptoms are the same as those for mastocytosis''
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mast_cell_activation_syndrome

If I were you I would try something else like N-methylhistamine (24h urine), PGF2 (24h urine) or ECP, testosterone, IL-8, Th1/Th2/Th17, tryptophan, serotonin, IgG subclasses etc.

Interesting papers:
''Mast cells (MCs) are ubiquitous in the body, but they have historically been associated with allergies, and most recently with regulation of immunity and inflammation. However, it remains a puzzle why so many MCs are located in the diencephalon, which regulates emotions and in the genitourinary tract, including the bladder, prostate, penis, vagina and uterus that hardly ever get allergic reactions''
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26813805
Perhaps in POIS there are mast cell being activated in the genitourinary tract and the intensity of the reaction is related to the high density of mast cells. Just throwing some ideas out here (MCC receptor mutation?). Also most MCC's (subtype) are located in mucosal surfaces instead of bulk tissue.

Neuroendocrinology of mast cells:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28094875

Link between mast cells and bacteria:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28818263
Dysbiose---->LPS---->Toll like receptors of Mast cells?? (TLR inhibitors for pois? Naltrexone is a TLR-4 inhibitor I believe)

Mast cell phenotypes release different cytokine profiles:
https://www.scopus.com/record/display.uri?eid=2-s2.0-0029044126&origin=inward&txGid=20008153e1a7803e00db05f537622925

« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 07:06:38 PM by Muon »

aswinpras06

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #205 on: March 22, 2018, 11:57:56 PM »
Hey, Nanna et al,

So I was wondering how can the desensitization treatment work for the infection theory? According to this article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116118300199 Improvements were noticed after about two years of intralymphatic immunotherapy.
This theory basically proposes that there is an Immune reaction to the semen it self as if it had an antigen that the body reacts against. So how would this make seance in a the infection context ?
Maybe the dormant viruses are triggered by a component in the seminal fluid ? Perhaps while the body is busy getting rid of the semen from our blood stream, the immune system weaken and that triggers the virus ? Very curious.

The desensitisation works because it corrects the immune system.  Allergy occurs when a person's immune system reacts to substances in the environment that are harmless for most people. So once the allergy(semen allergy) is overcome by desensitisation, immune defence is in healthy state.  Therefore no dormant infections(viral,bacterial or fungal) can become active.  This basically cures our POIS, if it is caused by dormant infections becoming active.

Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #206 on: March 23, 2018, 09:54:36 PM »
Hey, Nanna et al,

So I was wondering how can the desensitization treatment work for the infection theory? According to this article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116118300199 Improvements were noticed after about two years of intralymphatic immunotherapy.
This theory basically proposes that there is an Immune reaction to the semen it self as if it had an antigen that the body reacts against. So how would this make seance in a the infection context ?
Maybe the dormant viruses are triggered by a component in the seminal fluid ? Perhaps while the body is busy getting rid of the semen from our blood stream, the immune system weaken and that triggers the virus ? Very curious.

The desensitisation works because it corrects the immune system.  Allergy occurs when a person's immune system reacts to substances in the environment that are harmless for most people. So once the allergy(semen allergy) is overcome by desensitisation, immune defence is in healthy state.  Therefore no dormant infections(viral,bacterial or fungal) can become active.  This basically cures our POIS, if it is caused by dormant infections becoming active.

Right, that's exactly what I was thinking about. Yet it's kind of odd that it's a case of both: Semen allergy and then a dormant infection happening at the same time. I mean; I have dust allergy, why wouldn't that activate the dormant infections ?

aswinpras06

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #207 on: March 24, 2018, 01:47:53 AM »
Hi Nas

Dust allergy can also weaken the immune system if it is very severe.  Many of the patients with severe respiratory allergies usually are much more prone to both upper and lower respiratory tract infections, than the common people.  I myself have severe nasal allergies and  get frequent sinus infections.

It seems Pois was very common in ancient India as per Ayurvedha (a Indian medical system).  They knew very much about the disease but could not find the cure.  So instead they made a warning that

"semen is very precious and it takes enormous amount of blood,energy and vital body resources to produce a drop of it.  Hence it should never be wasted and if it is wasted it makes one to lose all his energy and vitality"

But now we know that Pois is spread worldwide.  But only a very few have a luck to get treatment for it medically.  Like Asthma and other allergies a complete cure may not be possible but medicines to manage it may be discovered in the future.  Till then it seems we have to continue our experiments with supplements and diet !!


nanna1

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #208 on: March 24, 2018, 02:56:47 AM »
  In the (herpes) virus model, a stress-trigger activates a gene called JNK, and JNK activates the dormant herpes virus causing it to replicate and spread.

  According to this paper (and press release), the herpes viruses are kept dormant by methyl groups attached to the virus DNA. Methyl groups act as the off-switch for the virus. When a gene called JNK is activated, the methyl groups that were attached to the herpes DNA are eventually removed (demethylation). This DNA demethylation results in the virus replicating and spreading.

  In this herpes model of POIS, as the virus spreads, the immune system attacks the herpes virus and herpes infected cells. The attack by the immune system on the virus causes inflammation and allergy, and you become sick. Therefore, in this virus model, POIS is an attack by a strong/healthy immune system on an invading/spreading pathogen (virus). The immune system is doing exactly what it is supposed to do, which is kill the herpes virus and any infected cells.

  An HHV-3 infected person with a weak immune system would not get POIS. They would get shingles. Shingles occur when the immune system is weak and cannot fight the virus. And shingles can be triggered by stress.

  The virus itself is not the main thing that makes you feel sick, even though it is doing some damage to your body. What makes you feel sick (POIS) is the immune system releasing different molecules (histamine, cytokines, reactive oxygen species, antigens, etc...) to kill the virus.

Hi Quantum,
  Since JNK activation leads to the demethylation of herpes DNA, The spread of the virus can be stopped by methyl donors as long as you have a properly functioning homocysteine cycle. Stopping the virus after it has already spread does not stop the immune system from attacking the newly deactivated virus. So genetic problems with methylation could be a confounding factor in POIS. Also there are different strands  of HHV-3 and they have differing capacities to infect and spread. The chickenpox vaccine is a live virus strand of HHV-3, but it is the weakest know strand. So another possibility could be that those who are infected with stronger strands of the virus may experience more symptoms. Even if under-methylation or differences in HHV-3 strands are not unique factors for POIS, there could be other factors that are unique. Also, I thought you might be interested in this article "COX-2 and PGE2 signaling is essential for the regulation of IDO expression by curcumin in murine bone marrow-derived dendritic cells"

  Methyl groups attached to the viral DNA turn off the viral replication. However, when the methyl groups are removed (demethylation), the virus can activate/replicate. So methyl donors (choline and betaine) and B vitamins (B12, B9, etc...) play an important role in causing the herpes virus to go dormant.

  Hi Nas, My best guess now is that the stress-trigger for POIS (in the herpes virus model) is a combination of high prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) and low cyclic AMP. PGE2 is found in high concentrations in semen and can cross the blood-brain barrier. I assume the dust from your dust allergy does not cross the blood-brain barrier. So I wouldn't expect dust to cause and herpes dependent POIS. Thank you for sharing that your POIS is induced by smoking. That helps narrow down the list of stress triggers. Nicotine increases COX-2 and PGE2.
  Desensitization treatments may work by exposing the body to chronically elevated levels of PGE2 leading to gradual PGE2 resistance (Ref 1, Ref 1, Ref 3). This is analogous to how high insulin levels lead to insulin resistance (diabetes).
  cyclic AMP is involved with erections.

JNK has many stress-triggers:
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 01:11:54 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #209 on: March 24, 2018, 03:00:36 AM »
Thank you for sharing that your POIS is induced by smoking. That helps narrow down the list of stress triggers.

Hah! See, I knew that was important!

I assume the dust from your dust allergy does not cross the blood-brain barrier.

Yes Nanna but neither does my semen (I mean I hope not), so I still don't understand this aspect of this theory.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 03:11:37 AM by Nas »

aswinpras06

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #210 on: March 24, 2018, 03:39:03 AM »
Hi Nanna

An head shower(both hot and cold shower) or head bath(that is what we call it in India) brings to me all the symptoms of Pois some times even greater than pois.   Add this to smoking trigger mentioned by Nas!

Rinat

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #211 on: March 24, 2018, 11:42:13 AM »
Kurtosis wrote about herpes too


« Sent to: Shinjiro on: August 25, 2014, 04:59:55 PM » « You have forwarded or responded to this message. »ReplyQuoteDeleteI'm not sure we're in the same boat. I have no POIS symptoms anymore. I'm happy with that. If POIS has a genetic basis then I don't expect it can just be switched off overnight. If that's the cure you imagine, with no ongoing medication, then you may be disappointed. Perhaps, I'd be fine without a multi-vitamin and resveratrol. I haven't tried to find out.If POIS comes from a viral infection e.g. HHV-6 then it won't be curable as such. The patient would have to take anti-virals when there are flare ups of the virus. Interestingly, vitamin D is used as a treatment for Herpes and some people with Epstein-Barr report improvement with vitamin D. Low vitamin D also effects testosterone and dopamine levels. Complimentary supplements in treating viruses are lysine and resveratrol as lysine inhibits the virus while reseveratrol and vitamin D increase the immune response. Some people may have a problem with low BH4. If they do, good, they should treat it. If they don't, they have problems other than what I had and I can't help. If you have SIBO it will create nutrition problems, fatigue etc.. Get it treated. My guess is that there are different illnesses on this forum. Some people are mentally ill perhaps and their POIS is anxiety related. I can't fix all these problems so I went away. It is easier for me to be happy with my own good health rather than spend hours every day trying to convince other people I'm OK. Why would I, they'd just resent me for being better but not being able to help them. Drinking red-bull and taking vitamin D is taking vitamins and caffeine to treat POIS. If that makes you happy, keep going. But if vitamin D is really making you better then it's advisable to get tested by your doctor for viral infections, EBV, Herpes etc.. Explain to your doctor your fatigue symptoms and see if they can help. Just try to make yourself better and don't try to fix POIS for everyone. One thing I learned, doctors have some ability to treat fatigue related illnesses and to test for viruses, bacterial overgrowth, vitamin deficiencies etc. They have no idea how to treat POIS and telling a doctor you have it will just make them think you're a hypochondriac Regards, KReport To Admin

Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #212 on: March 24, 2018, 10:02:53 PM »
Well he sounded feisty didn't he ?

nanna1

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #213 on: March 26, 2018, 12:00:00 AM »
aswinpras06,
  An article on heat-induced herpes virus activation in vivo. Rapid in vivo reactivation of herpes simplex virus in latently infected murine ganglionic neurons after transient hyperthermia.
  COX-2 inhibitors suppress heat-induced herpes activation. Inhibition of cyclooxygenase 2 synthesis suppresses Herpes simplex virus type 1 reactivation
  So when arachidonic acid is oxidized by COX-2, it produces prostaglandin E2 (PGE2). This seems to be important in heat-stress induced virus activation.

Rinat and All,
  Kurtosis exited before I joined POIScenter. Did he also have a low arachidonic acid diet and methyl stack?

« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 12:19:37 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

aswinpras06

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #214 on: March 26, 2018, 12:49:32 AM »
An excellent article on chicken pox virus,its effect on enteric nervous system and importance of cellular methylation ability to prevent its reactivation.

https://www.wellnessresources.com/news/chicken-pox-and-shingles-virus-prevent-reactivation


Many of us have both chickenpox and shingles,gut problems and sinus issues.  All this can be caused by varicella herpes zoster.  Thats why acyclovir may have helped.  But complete remission of this virus at present is not possible. 

aswinpras06

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #215 on: March 26, 2018, 01:26:24 AM »
Thanks Nanna!

Why hot showers or cold showers(especially in the head and neck region) worsen pois can now have some explanation.

If similar findings for all the other symptoms of pois point to a latent infection becoming active, then proper medical treatment for pois is very much possible.

bletzer

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #216 on: March 26, 2018, 10:03:35 AM »
Acording to Muons case and his labs- https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nc2dt6pcwd5xpmu/AACyyDE6uhY1DHn1fAuxw86Ja?dl=0&preview=Muon+3-6+Th1Th2+part2-4%2BIL4gen+14-08-2015.pdf

I find this- about th1 dominence- https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/supplements-foods-exercise-right-type-th1-vs-th2-dominance/

This realy make sense , if things this guy saying are true.

He sad that he is geneticly predisosed to all this conditions, and he cured him self by lectin avoidence.

He claim to be solved all his problems (genetics colerated) by his diet and suplemetation acording wich dominance th1 th2 lso th17 involwed...

He mention brain fog , autoimune conditions, inflamation ,infections, ebv virus , hpv, fatigue, ibs, low t3, hi cortisol (because HPA acsic must copesate vith hi cortisol), low pregnelone, and most of our symptoms an this linked to diet (LECTIN fod avoidence),damaged gut flora microbiota ,lectins couse also leaky gut=autoimune conditions etc...

My modher have reumatoid artrytis, and now autoimune hashimoto(" i am geneticly same like her") people here claim that they are lowered antibodies with diet avoidence food etc..

Very possible, check your PM.

nanna1

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #217 on: March 26, 2018, 11:33:41 PM »
  Thanks aswinpra06 for sharing the link Chicken Pox and Shingles Virus: Prevent Reactivation. This is a very informative link. It discusses most of what we have be discussing. It also talks about the methylation/herpes connection and the gut-health/herpes connection which I wasn't aware of.

  kingfisher recently shared with me a paper that positively identifies prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) as the required molecule for herpes reactivation (article). Previous papers had only showed that COX-2 inhibition could completely block herpes reactivation. But this paper shows that adding PGE2 to neurons after inhibiting COX-2 can still cause the virus to replicate. So the arachidonic acid (AA) cascade (AA/COX-2/PGE2) is the trigger for herpes virus replication. COX-2 inhibitors are already prescribed to treat sex induced headaches.

  Nightingale, Hopeoneday and others have post about the vagus nerve infection hypothesis by Michael VanElzakker. The most useful idea that I find from Dr. VanElzakker's hypothesis is that the location of the infection matters more than the specific type of herpes virus. The location of the infected nerves will decide what inflammatory disease and what symptoms people experience as the immune system attacks.

I've been reading about how zinc sulphate and certain essential oils have virucidal (virus killing) activity against herpes.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 09:27:45 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

POISrival

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #218 on: March 27, 2018, 05:57:08 AM »
Hello,
I'm following this thread with great attention. I have been using acyclovir (antiviral) and posted about it in another thread.Then i read a comment there that the whole virus thing is being discussed here.
 This is so promising for me and makes me think that my improvement on acyclovir is not a fake psychological placebo effect. may be time has arrived to pay the viral infection thing a big share of concern. I had chicken pox and mumps when i was a kid and they were so bad.
POIS is my worst enemy

aswinpras06

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #219 on: March 27, 2018, 06:15:14 AM »
Infection may be the most likely cause because our symptoms recede on their own after a few days.  This is the case for most of the other common viral and bacterial infections which get cured  mostly on their own without any antibiotics or treatment on our part.  Garlic,Acyclovir  working for some, points out to most likely a viral cause.

Normal people are not stressed by orgasm but we are, may be due a genetic defect.  We do not get complete relief because the causative factor(viral,bacterial or fungal) still is not cleared and resides dormant only to be activated again in a physiological stress for our body, which for us is orgasm.  Also what ever causes this infection, is smart enough to make us crave for orgasm so that  it can infect us again.  This is not the case for most other common infections which once get cleared will not attack us again and again as the one which causes pois.

Allergy medicines like anti-histamines,desensitization,niacin flush are working because, may be they prevent the dormant infection becoming active by removing the stress(orgasm) on our immune system.  Without the stress our immune function is normal and hence the latent infection cannot replicate.

At present I am trying some natural antibiotics like neem,virgin coconut oil,oregano oil,apple cider vinegar and garlic.
Unlike prescription antivirals this can be safely taken for a very long time.  If infection is the cause then this may provide some useful relief.