Adaptogens and Nootropics

[Pois 2011]

Since I had I really rough time in the past months I tried some things to improve my overall state. I tried a lot which didnt work or made my condition worse like DHEA for example. But I found some things that really helped my mental state - which is the worst part of POIS at least for me. Since the past months were very stressful and my sleep was messed up even worse and I felt like crap all day I thought my cortisol levels must be through the roof and I was low on dopamin. So I tried adaptogens to balance the cortisol levels out and get rid of depression and anxiety. What  helped was the combination of Ashwagandha in the evening and Rhodiola in the morning. With Ashwgandha by itself I didnt noticed a real improvement. By adding Rhodiola it was an immediate improvement. Maybe it is just the Rhodiola.
Since I had the feeling due tomy crash with DHEA that my hormones were total out of balance I tried to not ejaculate as long as possible - so I had breaks of between 4 and 6 weeks for some months now.
I also tried a lot of amino Acids. Most do nothing. I tried to drink a lot of whey Protein shakes like suggested on the Naked scientist Blog but it seemed to make me feel even worse. I read to much protein can lead to higher level of depression cause of lesser tryptophan levels.
I also thought maybe a leaky gut could be the the cause of POIS since I have some gut  or stomache related issues so I tried to get a lot of L Glutamine what didnt help.
The last Amino Acid I wanted to try was l Theanine. By itself it didnt help but when taking it before drinking coffee it made me really feel good. This combination is the most known nootropic. Recently I added MCT Oil and Butter to it which makes it a so called Bulletproof Coffee. I have to say I am not a coffee drinker cause its just makes me jittery but this combination makes me feel very alert.
Another nootropic I take and what seems to help is Bacopa (Brahmi) which should be helpful against Anxiety and Depression and should improve memory function.
Last thing I took was Phenibut which is the only thing which is kind of dangerous when  taken to often - since it is addictive and you can get withdrawl symptoms.
This is surely no cure for POIS but it surely helps in my case, though I am not long on this regime.
But my overall state is much better and I am sleeping much better. Bad sleep makes my symptoms so much worse.
The other day I ejacultated after one month break. Usually I sleep okay the first night afterwards. On the second night I almost dont sleep at all and on the third day I am usually in rage mode and get angry very fast but can sleep that night again. This is my usual POIS pattern regarding my mood and sleep. Not mentioning the other symptoms...
This time I slept well the first night. I took 500 mg Phenibut for the second night and slept like a baby in that night and the third day I was not getting in rage mode as well.
The first day after the ejaculation I my body felt sick and I got brain fogged but I didnt get much of the anxiety and depression. It was more like being in a dumber state and being not able to think as fast as when not in POIS state. But I was kind of relaxed. I still was sensitive to cold or heat and it still feels like an allergic reaction or spreading bacterial infection in my bod?  but at least the mental sides are much better. Sleeping on the second night made me feel better on the day afterwards. So the cycle of feeling bad isnt that long.

So what I do now:
Rhodiola in the morning. Afterwards 200 mg of L theanine with a Bulletproof coffee on empty stomach
Bacopa during lunchtime
Ashwagandha at night
1 time a week phenibut - I plan to take it the evening after ejaculation (it needs 3 hours to work)
I take stuff like Magnesium, zinc, etc as well. I will add Choline as well.
I take the adaptogens for balancing the hormones. The nootropics should also help my memory and brain functions. If you want to try one of the things google it beforehand. Phenibut seems to be  the only thing that can be dangerous if not taken cautiously.

[Quantum]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with different supplements, whether you had success or not.  That may prove useful for other members.

L-theanine is very useful for me too.  It is great for anxiety and other emotional symptoms.

Magnesium have always been of help for me against POIS.

Let us know in a few months if your current regimen is still effective.

[berlin1984]

I love Ashwagandha and Rosea Rhodiola.

Bacopa has negative effects on sperm (temporary infertility) so this is a reason I don't take it.

Magnesium is effential too.

Too much zinc can lead to copper depletion and too much hornyness.

[Muon]

So what I do now:
Rhodiola in the morning. Afterwards 200 mg of L theanine with a Bulletproof coffee on empty stomach
Bacopa during lunchtime
Ashwagandha at night
1 time a week phenibut - I plan to take it the evening after ejaculation (it needs 3 hours to work)
I take stuff like Magnesium, zinc, etc as well. I will add Choline as well.
I take the adaptogens for balancing the hormones. The nootropics should also help my memory and brain functions. If you want to try one of the things google it beforehand. Phenibut seems to be  the only thing that can be dangerous if not taken cautiously.

Low BDNF? Compare:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2983.msg28889#msg28889

[hurray]

There are some interesting papers out there about Bacopa and its potential for treating cognitive disorders:

Conclusion

BM demonstrates immense potential in the amelioration of cognitive disorders, as well as prophylactic reduction of oxidative damage, NT modulation, and cognitive enhancement in healthy people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746283/

[Pois2011]

Just a little update on the orgiginal post: Since 2016 I took a lot less supplements and adaptogens. Once a week Phenibut is still beneficial to me. And I take Bacopa every night before going to sleep. Bacopa helps getting to sleep and I really think it improves my memory - as long as I am not in Pois. But Bacopa is the only thing I take on a daily basis.

[berlin1984]

I love Ashwagandha and Rosea Rhodiola.

Since there was confusion in another thread, here my personal protocol that lets me manage 70% (but not fix) (EDIT: With addition of tribulus and no more chronic coffee, goes up to >90% for sex-but-not-masturbation-orgasm) my POIS

Those are my MUST:
* Do not masturbate, only sex with real partner. (was proven in another thread that most/all people have less problems with sex than with masturbation)
* Do not have orgasm more than every 3 days, ideally less.
* Sex 1-2h before sleep only, not during day
* Morning after (actually probably each day, takes some time for effect) take
 * B Complex (active forms of vitamins ideally?)
 * Magnesium
 * L-Theanine
 * Ashwagandha extract,
 * Rosea Rhodiola extract.
 ^ Those herb extracts are synergistic, you need them both IMHO.
 * Passion Flower extract
 * On mornings-after where I need to perform socially, I also take passion flower extract.
EDIT November 2020: Tribulus Terestris is awesome. Take it additionally!

Those are my PROBALBY HELPS:
* Ginger tea
* Black chocolate
* If you have weakness or constipation during the day, take Iberogast.
* I also try to get vitamin C
* I also often eat dried physalis recently

This fixes (mostly):
* All brainfog
* All lack of resistance to stress
* Light sensitivity
* Hate for social situations

This does NOT fix (or only improve):
* The pain I experience on morning waking up. It used to be a lot worse before though, also with stiffness. In my belief, this is caused by bacteria growth (triggered after O) and/or activation of latent virus.
** Improves after taking a strong coffee and hot/cold(alternating) shower. Feels like pain is being flushed away.
EDIT November 2020: Chronic coffee consumption is bad for other reasons.
* The fatigue that hits me usually at 18:00 on the day-after-sex. So basically it does not fix my day-after-in-evening-iinability-to-stand-and-want-to-lie-on-couch. (Sometimes helped by Iberogast or sublingual NADH). EDIT: With addition of Tribulus Terestris, I think this is fixed too. If not then B-Vitamins and Choline help.
* I more and more believe I have a kind of CFS/POTS (on all days unrelated to orgasm), somehow related to Norepinephrin or virus/infections.

My positive lookout for future:
* I'm currently taking two antibiotics/antiparasitals, let's see how I feel after EDIT: Did not help
* If that does not help, I will check for doctors specialized in CFS.
* Or I will go without doctor talking first and check for reacticated virus.

EDIT November 2020: If I really need to perform on the next days, I take Niacin 200mg with flush and 25mg Diphenhydramin and 5mg Loratidin before orgasm, with down with a lot of water, then wait the 20-50 minutes for niacin flush to occur. It improves day after symptoms but does not completely remove them. I don't think chronic usage of niacin or antihistamines is healthy.

[Iwillbeatthis]

By itself it didnt help but when taking it before drinking coffee it made me really feel good. This combination is the most known nootropic. Recently I added MCT Oil and Butter to it which makes it a so called Bulletproof Coffee. I have to say I am not a coffee drinker cause its just makes me jittery but this combination makes me feel very alert.

I tried bulletproof coffee today for the first time and its an awesome feeling. I used two table spoons of grass fed ghee, one table spoon of mct oil and mycotoxin free coffee.

Only concern I have is that I'm on a high carb diet, avoiding histamine and high GI carbs - I use brown rice and sweet potatoes as my main source of carbs. So lets see what happens when I eat carbs later on in the day...

I don't think low carb or keto is possible for most ectomorphs unless you want to be an underweight scrawny stick, naturally I'm much skinnier than Observer in that POIS Waldinger video.

[Journey]

20-30 drops of Valerian root extract tincture improves my energy and seems to slightly improve my thinking but it might be the general effect not specifically having any effect on the POIS symptoms themselves.

[LookingForACure]

By itself it didnt help but when taking it before drinking coffee it made me really feel good. This combination is the most known nootropic. Recently I added MCT Oil and Butter to it which makes it a so called Bulletproof Coffee. I have to say I am not a coffee drinker cause its just makes me jittery but this combination makes me feel very alert.

I tried bulletproof coffee today for the first time and its an awesome feeling. I used two table spoons of grass fed ghee, one table spoon of mct oil and mycotoxin free coffee.

Only concern I have is that I'm on a high carb diet, avoiding histamine and high GI carbs - I use brown rice and sweet potatoes as my main source of carbs. So lets see what happens when I eat carbs later on in the day...

I don't think low carb or keto is possible for most ectomorphs unless you want to be an underweight scrawny stick, naturally I'm much skinnier than Observer in that POIS Waldinger video.

FYI, I was reading a bit about glycemic index yesterday and learned that the GI of sweet potatoes is highly dependent on how they are prepared. Baked sweet potatoes have a GI of 94, whereas sweet potatoes boiled for 30 minutes have a GI of 46. Source: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sweet-potato-glycemic-index#bottom-line

[Iwillbeatthis]

I tried bulletproof coffee today for the first time and its an awesome feeling. I used two table spoons of grass fed ghee, one table spoon of mct oil and mycotoxin free coffee.

Only concern I have is that I'm on a high carb diet, avoiding histamine and high GI carbs - I use brown rice and sweet potatoes as my main source of carbs. So lets see what happens when I eat carbs later on in the day...

I don't think low carb or keto is possible for most ectomorphs unless you want to be an underweight scrawny stick, naturally I'm much skinnier than Observer in that POIS Waldinger video.

Update: My concerns were right after some hours my stomach felt bad probably because there was too much fat to digest than usual, I took the liver detox pill and ate two nut chocolate bars that helped.

However I went out to the shops just now and I had the worst anxiety ever, even though my head felt much clearer and I had the coffee six hours ago. The bad anxiety was either because of the bulletproof coffee, Pregnenolone, or because I hadn't eaten a proper meal all day. Not sure if I should continue low carb or eat a normal meal now.

[Iwillbeatthis]

FYI, I was reading a bit about glycemic index yesterday and learned that the GI of sweet potatoes is highly dependent on how they are prepared. Baked sweet potatoes have a GI of 94, whereas sweet potatoes boiled for 30 minutes have a GI of 46. Source: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sweet-potato-glycemic-index#bottom-line

I don't boil mine but I either cut them up into chips or small cubes with olive oil, and then oven cook them to well done. If you just oven bake the sweet potato as a whole then the GI is much higher I think.

Although brown rice and organic sweet potatoes don't cause any reactions for me, day to day I wouldn't say I'm feeling good from my diet. When I started weight lifting in the gym over a year ago I switched from a low carb diet to high carb. I went from 135lb to 160lb (6ft in height) but I was eating massive meals(oats for breakfast also) at the start and feeling bad from it. Now I'm 150-153lb and still eating quite big meals for lunch and dinner but I want to change my diet so I can  feel better generally but also keep my weight as it is. I do cheat and eat other stuff from time to time.

Its hard when you're avoiding histamine and brocolli, some other vegetables and some carbs. I don't eat breakfast which I think is bad and I want to change that but not sure what to eat. Eggs/avocados can't do often because of histamine, gluten free oats are bad, fruits I don't really consider as breakfast. If I ate breakfast then my meal sizes could be a lot smaller which would be better

Right now I eat: sweet potatoes or brown rice with fried onions and any protein so chicken, chickpeas with veg, beef, salmon, for snacks I eat popcorn, kind bars(dark chocolate and almond), fruits/smoothies, sometimes have gluten free tortilla wraps with chicken but I lose a lot of weight with this. With chicken I season with smoky bbq powder, chipotle sauce, jerk sauce, or garlic, ginger, lemon and brown sugar.

I'm want to start eating only organic food which is more expensive but I do feel better when I eat organic. Non organic chicken is the food that I want to stop eating the most as it contains a lot of crap inside. Organic chicken is too expensive so maybe I'll just switch to grass fed beef and wild salmon only.

I'm trying to add different fats now like grass fed ghee, mct oil, grass fed butter, coconut oil/avocado oil. I have no idea if saturated fat is bad or not I see arguments from Drs on both sides but if it makes me feel better then I don't mind having it.

[Iwillbeatthis]

Update: I tried the bulletproof coffee again today but with one tsp less of butter, I then had carbs and protien for lunch this was dumb of me, you can't take this bulletproof coffee without being on a low carb or keto diet otherwise the saturated fat gets stored and it can be dangerous while eating a carb diet. Really stupid of me.... I didn't have the balls to go low carb/keto as I was scared of losing weight and its a hassle to organise.

My liver has been feeling weird the last two days from all the fat and then today after lunch I get a weird dull pain on one part of my left chest side and I also can't feel my heartbeat if I place my hand on my chest and pulse felt weak. I used my dads apple watch ecg app to check heart rhythm and pulse and it was normal. I had pain in the same area from taking hordenine (the noradrenaline drug) thats where it started from. Just realised the pain in the area increases when I exhale or laugh, I had painful spasms in the area also seperatley.

[berlin1984]

I tried all kind of diets (also low carb / keto and carnivore) and can't stand them long term.
What they are useful however for is to change gut flora.
Also FODMAP diet I want to try harder/again to see if it changes anything (makes most sense to me if we assume disbyosis).

But I think we're in the wrong thread for this as it's not an Adaptogen/Nootropic....

[berlin1984]

For Ashwagandha, it's better to take it only sporadically when you need it, not as a daily supplement.

Else for me it lead to heart palpitations, maybe makes mood swings worse, maybe makes orthostatic intolerance worse.

Internet advice is to cycle this herb.

[Clues]

For Ashwagandha, it's better to take it only sporadically when you need it, not as a daily supplement.

Else for me it lead to heart palpitations, maybe makes mood swings worse, maybe makes orthostatic intolerance worse.

Internet advice is to cycle this herb.

Thanks for the heads-up, Berlin. I was planning to take it daily as I struggle with constant low-level stress. But will bear your advice in mind!

[berlin1984]

If I might add one more thing:
It helped me a lot to drop coffee (ca 3 weeks ago?). The constant low level stress is gone since then. Mood swings (which I attribute to receptos doing something, coffeeine withdrawal kicking it, blood sugar swings doing something) also improved.

(A low stress lifestyle helps, e.g. avoid stressful human contact, work from home if feasible, reduce work hours if feasible etc)

[Clues]

If I might add one more thing:
It helped me a lot to drop coffee (ca 3 weeks ago?). The constant low level stress is gone since then. Mood swings (which I attribute to receptos doing something, coffeeine withdrawal kicking it, blood sugar swings doing something) also improved.

(A low stress lifestyle helps, e.g. avoid stressful human contact, work from home if feasible, reduce work hours if feasible etc)

Thanks a lot Berlin. I quit coffee 6-12 months ago, but not sure whether it helped my stress levels in my case.

Doing all those lifestyle measures you mention. Used to stress way too much over work. Feels dumb in retrospect! I didn?t know how much stress affects you physiologically.