Sublingual Immunotherapy (SLIT)

[Starsky]

I found an allergist who will help me with finding the best way of desensitization. We want to try the SLIT but I want to be prepared and discuss a few protocols of SLIT. He is doing SLIT but all Allergy Drops have their own protocol. Can you help me and find some medical articles about SLIT. He mentioned that once a month is not a good desensitization, normally he gives allergy shots every week, but it is special preparations of allergen and adjuvant which makes that the allegen stays in the skin for one week. Allergy drops must be therefore taken daily. He said there is no problem taking anihistamines, steroids, vitamins like niacin while desensitization.

[Willem]

Hi Starsky,  Thank you for posting that.  It is very helpful information.

One of the main reason I went off of anti-histamines while doing SLIT was because there needs to be some feedback mechanism of my body telling me if it is being desensitized or not.  For example, SLIT often gives me a sore throat, and the length of the sore throat helps me judge the severity of my reaction.  When I'm on AHs, I don't get a sore throat so I can't tell what's going on. 

For Dr. Waldinger's experiment he judged the reaction based on the size of the inflammation around the injection.  I'm pretty sure his patients had to be off of AHs in order to gauge their reaction.

In any event, it's still nice to know that the desensitization process won't be effected by niacin/anti-histamines etc.  Thanks. 

[Starsky]

Yes, the desensitization doesnt require to sufer from it.

[Ccconfucius]

starsky what is your email i have a book on sublingual immunotherapy in general  i can send you.
you might want to google scholar some sublingual articles there should be alot.

[b_jim]

Something new about Pois-SLIT ? I want to start. I will make the sysnthesis about all you said about SLIT.
( But I have some problems with my computer, my second hard disk seems spolied.   )


Ok, I want to start (myself, alone) next week with a small quantity of semen.
I searching the more inforamations I can :
- dose
- dilution or not
- time to keep in mounth
- Delay of reaction
- Delay to wait improvement

[Vincent M]

Ok, I want to start (myself, alone) next week with a small quantity of semen.
I searching the more inforamations I can

b_jim, here's part of an old post of Willem's in which he described the exact procedure he uses for his sublingual immunotherapy. I don't think there's any real consensus yet on what the dilutions should be. I think it takes months or even a year before you'll see signs of your POIS improving.

Willem's SLIT Procedure
"PROCESS:
-   Collect fresh semen sample in small glass bowl and let sit at room temp until it completely liquifies (>1hr for me)
-   Wrap Al foil over top of glass bowl and freeze
-   Treatment schedule is variable.  Always do it at night so I can rest if it induces POIS.  Usually do treatments every other night.
-   Anti-histamines: I use anti-histamines to reduce reaction to O, but need to be off of them for 48hrs before treatment in order to gauge how my body is reacting.  I've been off of AHs for over a month now.
   For treatment, remove from freezer, chip off tiny piece (roughly 0.1mL) into another glass bowl, let thaw.  Immediately re-cover and refreeze main sample.
-   Fill 1L measuring cup with warm tap water
-   Using a 1mL needle-less syringe, draw the chipped-off/thawed sample from the bowl into the syringe.  
-   Squirt sample into measuring cup and make sure syringe is evacuated and double check that the semen sample dilutes well (no coagulation)
-   Stir, and while stirring, draw a small sample with a dropper
-   Clear all saliva from under tongue
-   Apply two drops under tongue
-   Let sit for at least 5 minutes (no swallowing)
-   Swallow.  No food or drink for 30 minutes (so as not to disturb the sore throat measurement)
-   The treatment usually gives me a sore throat.  If the sore throat goes away by 10AM (and no POIS etc.), I increase the concentration of the next treatment.  Otherwise I back off of the concentration a bit or keep the concentration constant.[/li][/list]

EQUIPMENT:
To get started all you need is a 1mL syringe (see picture below) and a 2L measuring cup with metric units on it.  Once you get into higher concentrations, you will need a graduated cylinder.  Both the 1mL and cylinder came with this dilution kit purchased online.  "

[Vincent M]

Willem's current progress and schedule with SLIT:

"Efficacy: Recovery time has gone from 7+ days to 1.5 days. Close to 100% reduction in brain fog. 60% reduction overall in muscle and nerve pain (especially feeling good after day 3). Much more energy, and a lot easier to wake up in the morning.

Description: Began routine at 1:40K in July '11, currently at 1:2.7 and will continue to 1:0.

Side Effects: Digestive issues, sore throat, sometimes full blown reaction (POIS). Treatment was rough early on.

SCHEDULE:
May 2011: Discovered that a tiny dab of semen applied under tongue induced mild POIS (numbed mouth, sore throat, induced joint soreness (not usual POIS symptom) etc.).
May 15th, 2011: Started with a daily treatment of 1:5,000, but induced a constant reaction.
Late May/June: Tried different concentrations, but determined that anti-histamines were masking my reaction. Dialed back to 1:50K and made sure was off anti-histamines for treatment.
July: Started at about 1:40K, by July 14th was down to 1:12,500 with sore throat clearing up before 7AM
July 17th: Tried 1:10K, sore throat lasted past 10AM, Tried again 7/18, sore throat gone by 9AM.
July 20th: 1:9K -> no sore throat at all. My body's response seems to be changing very quickly.
July 21st: 1:8K -> no reaction, 7/22: 1:7K -> no reaction, 7/24 1:6K -> no reaction, 7/25 1:5K -> sore throat until 7AM
July 27th: 1:4K -> sore throat until 8AM, 7/28: 1:3K -> Induced POIS (arghhh!!), 7/29: 1:3K -> no reaction, 8/1: 1:2K -> increased mucus, no topical reaction 8/3: 1:1,500 -> no topical reaction. Going back to 3X per week, not feeling well.
8/4 to 8/10: Out of town. 8/11 1:1,000, sore throat until 9AM. 8/13: 1:900, no reaction. 8/15: 1:800, no topical reaction, mild POIS the next day. 8/17: 1:1,000, no reaction. 8/19: 1:900, upset diges"

[b_jim]

Oh thanks for this post !  My computer is tired and I have lost a lot of things. The search function on the naked scientist forum seems to be changed and I didn't found this post.
I think I will follow the strategy. It's boring to wait a lab.

[Daveman]

Great guys, by all means B_Jim, have a go at it.

We need about 3 or 4 solid labs running to get a good distribution.

[b_jim]

I want to start with 1:1000 (1Ml of sperm for 1L of water). I'm  less sensible to semen than willem I think.

[Daveman]

Sounds great. Find a starting point and if it's too heavy tone it down, if not, step up the pace until you are at a comfortable "working point". When applying any change of dosage, give the changes a week or two to stabilize before deciding to increase. Any decrease may have to be quicker if you are feeling really crappy.

We found that the number of drops is also important, because that affects the total amount of material being administered. One drop of 1:10000 is equal to two drops of 1:20000. I would suggest working with at least a couple of drops to help stabilize the dosage consistency.

If there's any information you need, just ask. Preparation procedures, equipment.

And remember, be careful, especially initially until you are more certain about how your system reacts.

Some doctors have indicated that application of this kind of procedure not only exposes one to the possibility of going into shock, but it could also generate anti-antibodies which had not previously existed and which COULD create other auto-immune problems if indeed POIS is not an auto-immune disorder.

Basically we still don't know what POIS is and have no idea what we may innocently be doing to ourselves. Not to be a party pooper, but we should be sure we are considering everything.

[b_jim]

I have started SLIT today following Willem's shedule.
I forgot to buy a sirynga But I made a dose of 1:200 with basic things I have.
I have light flu-like symptoms for the moment (I will update today) but I don't know if SLIT increase these symptoms. Tomorrow I will see if SLIT only can trigger flu-like symptoms in my case.
I have now 1L of solution so I think I will use it during 3 days, keep it in a fresh room (0-3?C) and then made another solution each 3 day.

Feb the 15th : 1:200 didn't give me any symptoms. Next time 1/100.
16th : no symptoms
17th : no symptoms but i get a flu ! Linked ? I don't think so. (update : water too cold != Rhinitis..) I will continue SLIT later, with 1/100 concentration.
22th : I continue SLIT with 1/100. My flu is finished. No symptoms. Pois was very short.
23th : no symptoms.
24th : no symptoms
25th : no symptoms.
26th and following days : 1/81   Now, I only write the dose and we'll see if  I get symptoms.
March the 9th : 1/61. ns

[poisioq]

Hi guys,
I have one question.
Is it possible to dilute semen in a saline solution without freezing it?
thanks

[Daveman]

Hi guys,
I have one question.
Is it possible to dilute semen in a saline solution without freezing it?
thanks

Yes. Use warm saline ( 36C / 90 F ) or so.
It dissolves better, does less harm to the semen and is more potent.

Then you could store it in the fridge for a short time to help make best best use of a "load".
You can make better use of "the load" by freezing it after it's dissolved. It loses potency but
this prevents you having to make a fresh load every week or so.

If you have to make a batch once a week you'll never be out of POIS.

[Ccconfucius]

Hi guys,
I have one question.
Is it possible to dilute semen in a saline solution without freezing it?
thanks

Yes. Use warm saline ( 36C / 90 F ) or so.
It dissolves better, does less harm to the semen and is more potent.

Then you could store it in the fridge for a short time to help make best best use of a "load".
You can make better use of "the load" by freezing it after it's dissolved. It loses potency but
this prevents you having to make a fresh load every week or so.

If you have to make a batch once a week you'll never be out of POIS.

you can makes months worth of dilutions in one "shot" or two and put in the fridge and it would last couple of months

[poisioq]

thank you guys for your replies.

my problem is that I share flat with other people that are not family  .
So I was thinking to avoid using fridge or freezer (wich are shared) and store it in a glass bottle with saline solution and put it in my room, in the wardrobe for example.
what do you think?

another question is about the concentration of the solution. I have fisical simptoms that last 24 hours and the cognitive ones 2-3 days after O.
thanks

[Daveman]

I'm not sure how long the sample will last un-refrigerated. I don't think more than a week would be a good idea.

Once a week to generate a new dilution wouldn't give you too much free time out of POIS.

But doesn't sound like you have too many options.

As far as dilution, perhaps you could start at two drops of 1:10,000 and see how it goes.

If you don't get any symptoms with that, double the number of drops. 4 drops at 1:10K would be equivalent to 2 drops of 1:5K
 See what happens and report back here. Then we can see what you could do.

[Starsky]

I think its not a good option because it will stink after 1 day. The best option for SLIT would be desensitization with semen of a donor.

[b_jim]

I made a solution day 0 and use it during day 1 and day 2 too. I kept it at low temperature (0-3?C) but I haven't frozen it.
But now I have stopped all, I have a severe flu.

I have understood why I have the flu. It must be caused by the solution, too cold. I kept it in mouth 2 times during 5 minutes.

[Ccconfucius]

still colder than what in europe.