Mast Cell Activation Syndrome

[Muon]

Posted this before and will post it again:

Intimate Contact Could Be Dangerous for Your Health

"Mast cells are unique immune cells responsible for hypersensitivity reactions through secretion of many mediators that may have both proinflammatory and anti-inflammatory effects. Mast cells may affect sexual function, depending on the mediators secreted, especially because mast cells respond to neurohormonal triggers. Mast cells are found in the genitourinary organs and in seminal plasma of infertile men, but the function of mast cells in these instances remains vague."

"Moreover, sensitive patients should be evaluated for atopic diathesis, especially the presence of conditions such as mast cell activation syndrome or multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome..."

POIS patients aren't being evaluated for MCAS that's the problem, and if one is being evaluated it's being done through an incomplete procedure.

[Muon]

I was about 2 weeks out from my last O (4 times in 2 days before an MRI to purposely be as sick as possible before the scan).  Since then I abstained but had mini-POIS recurring every day (buzzing, light head, red eyes, anxiety, confusion, joint pain, nausea) despite the usual supplement regimen.  In any event, on Friday I had an O and felt moderately bad yesterday, but today feel quite good .  Which got me to thinking whether any of you believe that in addition to abstaining as the primary POIS avoidance, that it is also important for POIS maintenance from a symptom perspective to periodically release.  Insight or opinion appreciated!

Could be explained by the release of additional mast cell anti-inflammatory mediators (IL-10 for example). Also a mast cell can secrete mediators which inhibit its own cell in an autocrine manner, see autocrine triggers/blockers below (Ref):



I can have these events myself sometimes. It makes sense. In most cases the left side of autocrine triggers is what may keep the POIS reaction ongoing, however in some rare occasions the right blue box may take the overhand. Which also means that mediators inside the orange oval may be potential markers for POIS. We already discussed some of them like CRH, IL-33, SP and to some extent TSLP.

[Muon]

Strashny's POIS survey (Ref):

"The most common symptom cluster from the criteria, involving fatigue, irritation, and concentration difficulties, is
always experienced by 80% of respondents"

Afrin's MCAD findings (Ref), table 1 constitutional: Fatigue (83%)

[Nas]

I haven't but I mostly suffer from brain symptoms so they're not gonna help even if I tried.

OK, what do you base that on though? Not saying you're wrong, just curious. FYI there was someone on the forum, can't remember which thread, who said his brain fog was massively reduced by Cromolyn.

Based on that Chromolyn can not be absorbed into the blood stream. I also was looking into trying it, but it wasn't available in here anyway.

[Nas]

I wonder if all it takes to increase the bioavailability of Quercitin is just to mix it with olive oil before intake? Is that a reasonable assumption?

[Muon]

I haven't but I mostly suffer from brain symptoms so they're not gonna help even if I tried.

OK, what do you base that on though? Not saying you're wrong, just curious. FYI there was someone on the forum, can't remember which thread, who said his brain fog was massively reduced by Cromolyn.

Based on that Chromolyn can not be absorbed into the blood stream. I also was looking into trying it, but it wasn't available in here anyway.

You are refering to this thread: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3216.0

"...while stimulation of brain and nasal MC leads to activation of the hypothalamic‐pituitary‐adrenal (HPA ) axis." Ref

It seems from the above that there is some kind of communication between nasal MCs and the brain in animals.

I wonder whether stimulation of genitourinary MCs by the constituents of the ejaculate leads to HPA activation. MCs have the ability to interact with distant MCs by their paracrine/endocrine-like properties. With endocrine function is meant that mediators can reach circulation, not that their mediators are meant for the puropose of targeting specific organs as in endocrine glands.

I wonder if all it takes to increase the bioavailability of Quercitin is just to mix it with olive oil before intake? Is that a reasonable assumption?

Algonot uses olive kernel oil (OKO). Oil from squashed olive seeds. I believe they use sonification to stimulate sonochemical reactions. The phytosome formula could even have a better bioavailability. You could consult literature to compare numbers.

[Nas]

I wonder if all it takes to increase the bioavailability of Quercitin is just to mix it with olive oil before intake? Is that a reasonable assumption?

Well, no, probably. I just mixed a Quercetin pill with olive oil and consumed it, waited an hour and orgasmed. Still had symptoms.

[Muon]

Flavonoids are being used daily for the long term (a few months minimum) with an intake that should not exceed far more than 1 g per day. They are not being used for immediate short term gain as far as I know. 

[Nas]

Flavonoids are being used daily for the long term (a few months minimum) with an intake that should not exceed far more than 1 g per day. They are not being used for immediate short term gain as far as I know.

That's a lot of Quercetin lol

[Muon]

Pepto Bismol removed symptoms completely

Review article: microscopic colitis - lymphocytic, collagenous and 'mast cell' colitis

Pepto-bismol:
"bismuth subsalicylate at a dose of two or three tablets (262 mg each) 3-4 times per day for several weeks may be beneficial"




Looks a bit like the flavone backbone

[Muon]

TL;DR Had POIS since puberty, tried many things, Hydroxyzine by far has helped eliminate POIS for me.

It's medication for Mast Cell Activation Disorders:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7003574/table/T9/

Hello!

I've been lurking here for a long time. But I had to join this site to give you some amazing news!!

I have found something that completely cures my POIS! All I have to do is eat a red apple before I orgasm! PLEASE don't try eating a green apple, it can make your symptoms worse

I tried all kinds of other things that didn't help:

Bananas
Oranges (with the seeds removed)
Watermelons
Kiwi Fruit
Ramen noodles
Pears

I hope somebody will find this useful. Red apples have changed my life forever!

Red delicious, 30 minutes before. It's amazing!

http://medcraveonline.com/MOJFPT/MOJFPT-06-00149.pdf

" Apples contain a range of flavonoids compounds within the peel, which contains procyanidins, catechin, epicatechin, chlorogenic acid, phloridzin and quercetin conjugates. The apple flesh also contains similar compounds but lower in concentrations. Clinical studies proved that quercetin rich apples significantly improve vascular function. Flavonoid content varies widely between apple varieties and even within the types of fruit tissues. Flavonoids tend to be higher in the peel rather than the flesh of apples. Research studies revealed that flavonoids content is higher in the darker, redder and bluer coloured apples. New Western Australian apple variety call -Bravo- was developed after many attempts and was selected over many years to ensure to obtain all required qualities such as has higher flavonoids content than other commercial apple varieties."

They also contain allergens and significant amount of FODMAPS.

[berlin1984]

Sorry if this site was mentioned already, but I found it quite interesting:
https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/en/introduction.html (at least the probably more verbose German version)

Seems to be the sister site of histaminintoleranz.ch

Somewhere else in this forum there was a theory that POIS is more prevalent in dutch people, now I wonder if mast cell / histamine things are more prevalent in Swiss people? (assuming now they are non-related, no matter if they are or not)

And I wonder why is there not more discussion on this forum here about potentials for a low histamine diet (instead of popping pills..at least to nail down the issue more)
https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/en/symptoms.html#triggers
Low histamine thread: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=820

[Muon]

Sorry if this site was mentioned already, but I found it quite interesting:
https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/en/introduction.html

No this hasn't been mentioned yet. I know the site from years ago, it seems they have updated it a lot. Great site worth a mention. Perhaps I will put it in the MCAD thread later.

"Hunger due to omitted or delayed meals can also increase the symptoms. However, it is unclear whether a state of hunger activates the mast cells or whether only a temporary undersupply of vitamins, minerals or energy leads to a reduced degradation of the mediators."

This is actually what I got. I can tell you right away that it's a kind of stress the hunger induces. Skipping meals makes me feel better, too much time without food gives stress.

What is even more problematic right now is pressure on my spine acting as a trigger just from gravity.

Wasn't aware of this one:
Mast cell activation disease: An underappreciated cause of neurologic and psychiatric symptoms and diseases

My brother has a lot of neuropsychiatric symptoms. Doctors don't know how to deal with it. Probably mast cells firing inside his brain.

Cytokines and chemokines are often involved in MCAD more so than Histamine. (Can't remember where I read that.)

I think you meant caucasian instead of Swiss people. This ethnic group is the most prevalent one in MCAD but that could have to do with western life style. We have a poll for that:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=151.0

[Muon]

Hello everyone,

I had low hemoglobin.

I'm taking iron since january 11 th 2020 (200 mg elemental iron a day)

I started Vit C 1000 mg a day a week ago.

Brainfog is gone. (i had this brainfog daily since 2008) ,i'm living the 3 rd day without it.

Anemia: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5341697/table/T5/

Brain fog typical MCAS symptom.

Vitamin C: Increased degradation of histamine; decrease of histamine formation by inhibition of histidine decarboxylase.

[Nas]

Anemia: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5341697/table/T5/

Brain fog typical MCAS symptom.

Vitamin C: Increased degradation of histamine; decrease of histamine formation by inhibition of histidine decarboxylase.

I find it difficult to believe that histamine is what's causing the brain fog.

[drop247]

Anemia: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5341697/table/T5/

Brain fog typical MCAS symptom.

Vitamin C: Increased degradation of histamine; decrease of histamine formation by inhibition of histidine decarboxylase.

I find it difficult to believe that histamine is what's causing the brain fog.

https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Histamine


H3 histamine receptor    Found on central nervous system and to a lesser extent peripheral nervous system tissue    Decreased neurotransmitter release: histamine, acetylcholine, norepinephrine, serotonin

[Muon]

 Note for the table I have posted above:

"Pct - percentage of the study population showing the indicated abnormality at least once prior to MCAS diagnosis"

Be aware that this is not your typical one time measurement in a cohort of patients. It may take decades before diagnosis has been made. The data is the result of collecting results of patient's entire past prior to diagnosis.

[Muon]

Quotation from https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/en/therapy_triggers.html

MCAD patients often mistakenly have the feeling that they have a "weak immune system". In reality it is not weak, but on the contrary over-stimulated by overactive mast cells. As a result, it no longer functions properly (high susceptibility to infections). Many then fatally resort to immune-strengthening agents, which make the condition even worse. On the contrary, one would rather have to suppress the immune system (immuno-suppressants), e.g. with corticosteroids (which can also have side effects).

[Muon]

Is there a possibility that we have MCAS, just triggered in different POISers through different ways?

[Muon]

(Mast cell inhibition in %, Ref):

Tetramethoxyluteolin (90-100%) > Luteolin (75%) > Quercetin (55%) > Cromolyn (15%)