Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)
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: Hormone issues  ( 5907 )
brainfogfun
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« : March 02, 2016, 01:58:14 PM »

Hey everyone. I'm new to the form. I have been suffering from POIS for 7 years now, ever since I turned 18. It started with anxiety and depression and I've also had fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue for most of that time. Full list of symptoms: http://imgur.com/eoy9LjO

I have tried many different anti-depressants and I really don't feel my issues can be helped all that much from them. They help somewhat but I don't think they are treating the underlying issue. They just help cover up some of the symptoms. However, now I'm having more and more severe symptoms that cannot be covered up anymore.

For a while I thought I just had a porn problem but upon experiencing bad brain fog after a nocturnal emission after a month or two of abstaining, I knew there had to be a problem outside of porn addiction. I actually told my parents I think I have POIS and they laughed at me so we are pretty much in this struggle on our own. No one else is going to fix this problem.

I have tried every supplement known to man. For a while I thought my problems were from a lack of dopamine. Thinking maybe all my dopamine dropped off after O and was converted into prolactin or some other chemical. So I decided to try natural L-dopa. (mucuna pruriens) It helped me greatly.

I also started using a hormone balancing herb called "myomin" I found on amazon. It is supposed to get rid of bad estrogen and possibly increase testosterone. I stupidly took a bunch of supplements at the same time so I don't know which was doing what but I have narrowed it down to these two supplements.

It's possible I was just getting a 'high' from the mucuna but all my issues were pretty much gone. The change was drastic. I felt like everything was fixed and I felt amazing. I had bad days when I felt shitty again but for a bout a month or two I was feeling normal on some days which I haven't felt in so long. Literally nothng else in my lifestyle or diet had changed, just the supplements. Also, I have tried almost everything to feel better and nothing really worked outside of these. If I had an O, I would feel a little crumby the next day but after taking my supplements I felt better. Eventually I started feeling shitty all the time again but I think it might be because I went off the myomin and possible inconsistent quality of the mucuna. Also, something about winter seems to make my issues much worse. It is possible I was just high for this time or I triggered a hypo-manic episode but I don't know, I felt like everything was fixed for a while, and this has NEVER happened before.

So I thought my issues were all from a dopamine problem so I got put on pharmacy L-dopa for restless legs and it didn't really seem to do anything. I felt a little buzz but it didn't really seem to do anything for 90% of my symptoms. So I looked up the other mechanisms of mucuna pruriens. It turns out it effects hormones and testosterone as well. There is evidence it can improve testosterone, sperm quality and hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal, function.

Between the myomin and mucuna, this tells me that I was changing my hormone function, which is probably the cause of all my problems.

I got a blood test for all the standard hormone stuff from my doctor and he said everything was fine. However, my body and brain are telling me a very different story.

I have re-ordered the myomin and mucuna to try and improve what ever problems were being fixed before. I will let you guys know how it goes. I really suggest not bringing these problems up with doctors as they are worthless with this condition and they will get sick of you quickly. You are better off searching this form and the web for possible solutions.

(So my current theory is that I have too much or too little of one or more hormones. OR, an overly sensitive response to said hormones or an under sensitive one. Most likely something that comes from the hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal axis, or thyroid. I think if we can correct the imbalance we can feel more or less normal. It's possible we have serotonin, dopamine, etc issue but I don't think that is the main problem, as I'm on anti depressants and they don't seem to be treating the right problem.)


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is some other research I have done on the HPA axis and hormone issues.

In my research something that I keep coming back to dysfunction of the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis.

"We reviewed previous studies that have described an association between abnormal functioning of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis and depression. In addition to melancholic depression, a spectrum of conditions may be associated with increased and prolonged activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. In contrast another group of states is characterized by hypoactivation of the stress system, rather than sustained activation, in which chronically reduced secretion of corticotropin releasing factor may result in pathological hypoarousal and an enhanced hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal negative feedback. Patients with atypical depression, seasonal affective disorder and chronic fatigue syndrome fall in this category." -

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=s1516-44462007000500005&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

In my case I have had trouble finding if my symptoms were coming from hyper-activation or hypo-activation of the HPA axis. The aforementioned findings implicate decreased HPA axis activity in the S.A.D., chronic fatigue, and atypical depression. CRH is the first in the cascade of hormones in the HPA axis. If mine were to be low it would cause issues with acth > cortisol.

"Lack of the hormone CRH also results in the feelings of extreme tiredness common to people suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome. Lack of CRH is also central to seasonal affective disorder (SAD), the feelings of fatigue and depression that plague some patients during winter months."

"Significant levels of chronic ACTH autoantibodies are a common pathological factor in CFS, AN and MD. These antibodies interfere with ACTH's ability to stimulate the production and secretion of cortisol, causing HPA dysregulation. As a result, patients suffer from the symptoms of adrenocortical insufficiency and the side effects of overactive cortisol-stimulating mechanisms utilized to compensate for this interference."
« : March 02, 2016, 02:31:09 PM brainfogfun »
demografx
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« #1 : March 02, 2016, 07:35:03 PM »

brainfogfun, Welcome to POISCenter!

10 years of major POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks associated with it.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.
Mr Raba
Jr. Member
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« #2 : March 03, 2016, 12:40:53 AM »

Excelent info brainfogfun!!!

I do also have both. POIS and CFS for 23 years now. Sudden smultaneous onset of both one night.
I think it could be autoimmune disruption of hormonal control pathways. So I definitely think you are onto something!


A big welcome to the group!!

Mr Raba

Simultaneous onset of CFS and POIS since Feb 1993. 
Married since 1989.

Helped by Immunocal (I explained how to take in previous posts).  Significant relief day one and day two.  It affects neurotransmitters!
notmythirdaccount
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« #3 : March 03, 2016, 01:52:05 AM »

Just wanted to say thanks for the detailed writeup!
brainfogfun
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« #4 : March 03, 2016, 12:48:38 PM »

I have also had improvement with maca. Again, it seems inconsistent but it really does help. Also it does make you wicked horny so your chances of having an O are pretty high. Also, it seems to make things WORSE the day after an O.

It may have been helping anxiety and depression problems outside of POIS issues but maybe not, who knows. But if I had been abstaining for a while and I take some pretty consistently, I noticed a marked improvement. Just don't have an O. haha. I remember one time I took it and all my pain and fibromyalgia symptoms were pretty much gone.

They don't really know how Maca works, they just think it balances hormones so this tells me again, that I most likely have a hormone issue at the crux of all my problems.
brainfogfun
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« #5 : March 03, 2016, 01:07:34 PM »

Some more info on why Mucuna might be helping:

Being the precursor for dopamine, its a well researched fact that the compound converts into actual dopamine inside the human body after ingestion.
 
Thus, anything that has L-Dopa in it is going to increase dopamine levels.
 
And that?s a good thing because dopamine is the pleasure/motivation hormone in humans, known for its stimulating effect on testosterone synthesis, while it also aids growth hormone secretion trough the pituiary gland (basically it stimulates the pituiary gland which then stimulates the production of your key hormones).
brainfogfun
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« #6 : March 03, 2016, 08:15:40 PM »

"Several of my male patients have complained that they feel exhausted for several days after ejaculating. Although little is known about the central neurochemistry of orgasm, it appears that NE facilitates it, and that NE is depleted after ejaculation (Rodriguez-Manzo and Feraandez-Guasti, 1995). If a male neurosomatic patient were deficient in NE prior to sexual activity, ejaculation could thereby worsen his symptoms."

-Betrayal by the Brain: The Neurologic Basis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia Syndrome


(NE refers to norepinephrine. This is not a hormonal theory but I thought I'd post it anyway.)
Mr Raba
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« #7 : March 04, 2016, 04:54:04 PM »

Brainfogfun,  Please Let us know how it goes please with trial 2!  :)

What helps a lot for me is immunocal.  Do search on how to take it in this forum I put a post explaining it. 

Simultaneous onset of CFS and POIS since Feb 1993. 
Married since 1989.

Helped by Immunocal (I explained how to take in previous posts).  Significant relief day one and day two.  It affects neurotransmitters!
Muon
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« #8 : January 02, 2019, 01:44:43 PM »

Did anyone investigate the HPA axis by testing all of the 3 stress hormones, ACTH, CRH, Cortisol, at the same time?
portuguese_poiser
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« #9 : January 08, 2019, 05:02:31 PM »

Hi . I've been stalking this forum for about a year and now that a have a well thinked and argumented theory about this "demon" that haunt everyone of us , i've decided to register and post my thoughts about POIS ( at least in my case ) . I must tahnk you all for the your brilliant work on this syndrome . I think that poisers are in general persons with high IQ ( just saying ) :) ...

I'm gonna do a brief resume about me (bio) : I'm from Portugal , i have 19 years old and i'm a computer science student/low level footballer .
When I was a child I went onto something that become a kind of a trauma for me and I think this trauma is related to POIS . It's well-known that childhood traumas can affect "hormonal-system" and immune system . I have asthma , spring allergies and i suffered from late puberty , so i had to make TRT two years and in that time I was feeling ( not 100% ) great .

Till POIS I was a brilliant student and people atributted me potential to become a good footballer . Now everything's ruined . But I have to say that in time that i made TRT , i made a very good season and i was very social in school . Today I have lots of friends due to that time , because nowadays i find socialize very hard .
I've registered here because you seem to be very supportive and smart people .

I think that my childhood trauma destroyed my "Hypothalamic?pituitary?adrenal axis" function and my body can't produce hormones correctly . This is somehow related to POIS i think . In my opinion allergy to semen is still a hypothesis even taking into account that I suffer POIS just by having sexual thoughts . Althought I've read somewhere , that semen is released to the prostate with excitment ... (it's just a theory)

I suffer from some symptoms , even outside of a POIS-state (like dry skin , bacterial acne , brain fog ...)
Another is the minerals and the vitamins semen spends and because of our Hypothalamic?pituitary?adrenal axis dysfunction , these minerals can't be immediately replaced .

I think the reason why some can treat themselves with a strict diet is because the gut is involved and mix with hormones .
Even with POIS , i'm a hopeful person and I think we can find a cure in a near future . (if we find out a cure in the next 1/2 years i still have the chance to become a professional footballer and completing my childhood dream ) .

PS.: Poisers I have a question for you . ( outside of POIS ) When my matches are in the afternoon I perform very bad ( I'm disoriented , fatigued ... ) but when the maches are at night I perform very well . Do you have some thoughs on this , a solution or a reason for this ?
demografx
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« #10 : January 09, 2019, 01:16:47 PM »

Hi portuguese_poiser, welcome to the forum!

Thank you for your detailed post.

10 years of major POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks associated with it.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.
david
Jr. Member
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« #11 : January 11, 2019, 03:51:25 PM »

"Several of my male patients have complained that they feel exhausted for several days after ejaculating. Although little is known about the central neurochemistry of orgasm, it appears that NE facilitates it, and that NE is depleted after ejaculation (Rodriguez-Manzo and Feraandez-Guasti, 1995). If a male neurosomatic patient were deficient in NE prior to sexual activity, ejaculation could thereby worsen his symptoms."

-Betrayal by the Brain: The Neurologic Basis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia Syndrome


(NE refers to norepinephrine. This is not a hormonal theory but I thought I'd post it anyway.)

i totally agree to this
although i got rid of pois after starting my own TRT protocol (clomid+androgel)
i can feel that next day after big O i lack of something i cant describe like i depleted something
i got a some signs of depression like procrastination and its very difficult to start doing my work
although i feel myself full of energy and absolutely no pois
i believe it is due to norpinephrine and dopamine depletion
also i have some gut issues and as it is known that 80-90% of serotonin is produced in intestines
i have low serotonin and low dopamine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsj219F9M2Q&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npp7-Rsa-Bk

this lowered psycho state is eliminated in full just after 1-2 days of abstinence

i hope to win this battle too as i finally did with pois

lately i had experimented with L-Tyrosine supplement
also i had tested N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine as a faster form of l-tyrosine
l-tyrosin is a precursor for dopamine(goal achieving desire) which in turn precursor to nor-epinephrine(awareness) and epinephrine(fier and anger)
so far i got no good news with my procrastination and adhd
looks like l-tyrosine doesnt affect me enough OR
there is something i still didnt find

current protocol: 40mg test. cypionate subcutaneously every 2 days, Cabergoline 0.125mg every 5 days, Alcar 2 grams per day, highly potent vitamins each day = no pois at all
Muon
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« #12 : January 11, 2019, 04:03:55 PM »

"Several of my male patients have complained that they feel exhausted for several days after ejaculating. Although little is known about the central neurochemistry of orgasm, it appears that NE facilitates it, and that NE is depleted after ejaculation (Rodriguez-Manzo and Feraandez-Guasti, 1995). If a male neurosomatic patient were deficient in NE prior to sexual activity, ejaculation could thereby worsen his symptoms."

-Betrayal by the Brain: The Neurologic Basis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia Syndrome


(NE refers to norepinephrine. This is not a hormonal theory but I thought I'd post it anyway.)
This is in line with Habibou's data

I was thinking the exact opposite myself but I might be wrong: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
Nas
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« #13 : January 11, 2019, 04:44:44 PM »

"Several of my male patients have complained that they feel exhausted for several days after ejaculating. Although little is known about the central neurochemistry of orgasm, it appears that NE facilitates it, and that NE is depleted after ejaculation (Rodriguez-Manzo and Feraandez-Guasti, 1995). If a male neurosomatic patient were deficient in NE prior to sexual activity, ejaculation could thereby worsen his symptoms."

-Betrayal by the Brain: The Neurologic Basis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia Syndrome


(NE refers to norepinephrine. This is not a hormonal theory but I thought I'd post it anyway.)
This is in line with Habibou's data

I was thinking the exact opposite myself but I might be wrong: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?
Could it be why epinephrine heald that guy who went into shock.
david
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« #14 : January 11, 2019, 09:38:01 PM »

"Several of my male patients have complained that they feel exhausted for several days after ejaculating. Although little is known about the central neurochemistry of orgasm, it appears that NE facilitates it, and that NE is depleted after ejaculation (Rodriguez-Manzo and Feraandez-Guasti, 1995). If a male neurosomatic patient were deficient in NE prior to sexual activity, ejaculation could thereby worsen his symptoms."

-Betrayal by the Brain: The Neurologic Basis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia Syndrome


(NE refers to norepinephrine. This is not a hormonal theory but I thought I'd post it anyway.)
This is in line with Habibou's data

I was thinking the exact opposite myself but I might be wrong: Is POIS associated with an Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction?

very interesting thanx for reference

my conclusion is that in general people with low ferritin= low hematocrit=low thyroid function are less vital = less energetic = have less libido etc

everything goes from the brain
low dopamin -> low epinephrine-> lower hypophysis function -> lower LH and FS hormone levels-> low tyroid fuction-> low testosterone which very often accompanied with high prolactin(it is also a hypophysis  disfunction)

current protocol: 40mg test. cypionate subcutaneously every 2 days, Cabergoline 0.125mg every 5 days, Alcar 2 grams per day, highly potent vitamins each day = no pois at all
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