Psychological Component

[POISrival]

Hello everyone, I hope you are doing good.

I have been thinking a lot about the fact POIS might have a pyschological component. I know this thought has been discussed a lot in this forum. I just have a few questions, I would be glad if you could answer them. I have a hunch we all have something common in our history that would lead to more understanding of POIS.


1- Were you ever taught by your parents that Sex is somehow against some religious teaching or it is not accepted by God?
2- Were you told that Sex is against social norms or rules? Did you ever think that having sex is shameful?
3- Were you always blamed by someone in your circle for small thing? Were you always under pressure?
4- Do you have a problem with guilt?
5- How was your first orgasm experience after Masturbation and Sex?
6- Were you told before your first orgasm experience that Sex is an activity the drains your energy?

[demografx]

Yes, yes, yes!!

But - - after 30++ years horrendous POIS experience -- I'm STILL convinced there's a biological -- not psychological -- underpinning to POIS.

Best,
Demo

[Prancer]

Hello everyone, I hope you are doing good.

I have been thinking a lot about the fact POIS might have a pyschological component. I know this thought has been discussed a lot in this forum. I just have a few questions, I would be glad if you could answer them. I have a hunch we all have something common in our history that would lead to more understanding of POIS.


1- Were you ever taught by your parents that Sex is somehow against some religious teaching or it is not accepted by God?
2- Were you told that Sex is against social norms or rules? Did you ever think that having sex is shameful?
3- Were you always blamed by someone in your circle for small thing? Were you always under pressure?
4- Do you have a problem with guilt?
5- How was your first orgasm experience after Masturbation and Sex?
6- Were you told before your first orgasm experience that Sex is an activity the drains your energy?

Agree with demografx 100%!

1) No way. I am a lifelong atheist, and was never taught that. Sex isn't bad...it's actually very healthy, thinking otherwise is, to put it bluntly, wrong and irrational.

2) Absolutely not. Again, sex is not much different than breathing or eating. It's a healthy behavior that almost everyone does. It creates bonding, relieves stress & many other good things.

3) No.

4) No.

5) It was great! No POIS the first time, hoping to get that back.

6) No.

Again, like demo, I'm 100% sure that the cause of POIS is not psychological for the majority, if not all, of us sufferers.

I would also add that I had a superb childhood, no problems at all. Good parents, extravagant upbringing, great education.

In other words, I don't have any obvious outside influences or any kind of exceptional trauma that some have mentioned as a possible factor.

[demografx]

Prancer mentions "exceptional trauma".

I spent too many years chasing that theory (psychiatry, etc.) as a cause for my POIS.

Finally, in my senior years, my wisdom shouted at me that "...it's physical, demo!"

[Quantum]

Hi POISrival and everyone,

I suppose that, even if POIS if possible even when you had a great childhood like Prancer had, that POIS indeed has a biological cause.  But, it would be appropriate to suppose as well that any bad influence due to a less than optimal education and childhood can add to the problem.

I didn't have good parents, even if they did all that they could, and they were very negatively oriented toward sexuality, and in general.  This may have helped in the fact that I had POIS from the very start, the first time I tried masturbation.   The psychological burden I have received from my chilhood and education just made it more complicated to understand and manage POIS.  Anxiety and psychological distress are not helping in any way for POIS.

I have an hypothesis, though, to try to discriminate between biological effects and psychological effects.  Would it be possible that the difference in severity from a waking state release vs a NE would indicate some psychological component, when waking state release is more severe?  I would be interested to ear from other members to see if that would fit with reality.   In my own case, my symptoms are worse after a waking state release.  I suppose that if my symptoms are less severe after a NE, it is because my waking state mind and its inhibiting beliefs and programming are not online, so there is less interference.  What do you think, and what is your own experience?

However, if someone like Prancer, who had a great childhood and didn't have a "primary POIS" ( right form the start), is having less symptoms after a NE than a waking state release, my hypothesis would be proven wrong.

If you agree to, please share if POIS is identical in severity or less severe after a NE, and if you had a good childhood and a positive sexual education or not.

[demografx]

My symptoms were worse after an NE.

[LAPOISSE]

Hello guys,

I havn't post here since a while but the thread is interesting.

My inch is a lot of us experienced somehow a kind of trauma linked to sexuality and that possibly immune system react to this internal contradiction.

I found out that my dad was gay when i was 18 and all my problems began since that. I guess that any bad teenage experience,family beliefs,  PE,any physical complex,  etc can be considered as a trauma.

I've seen a psychologist for a year and he thinks that i experience a form of PTSD.

Considering that the placebo effect is strongly implied in the mechanism of POIS(see the numerous testimony of people cured by very different method ) the only logical conclusion is that the nocebo effect is also implied(which doesn't mean that biological mechanism are not involved).

So enlarging the concept of trauma linked to sexuality(not just the one mentioned by post rival) who can say that he is not concerned at all ?
I know that it's not easy to admit( it like renouncing to a part of the commitment we dedicated to pois research) but hiding to ourself and to the other this part will just lead to a loss of time.

[demografx]

This is just my personal experience, not universal.

I was strongly convinced for years before the forums started that psychology (PTSD, etc.) or "spirituality" (my sex-is-evil upbringing) created POIS, so I spent huge amounts of time chasing the psychiatrist's couch as well as spiritual-religious solutions.

Zero results.

Fast forward to 5 years ago when I tried testosterone. It was a "miracle", a most potent near-cure and still is.

This overwhelming switch after 30+ years of POIS hell/misery -- then a sudden normalization with 'chemicals' convinced me that it's purely biological (for me). However, the early trauma may have *triggered* the physical failure of my condition. But after that trigger was pulled, and as I matured, I *think* that the severe physical malfunctioning still continued. Just my opinion. Which is why I am thrilled that Rutgers is taking a *scientific* approach, not a thinking/hypothesizing one, which we all have done since 2007, when the forums began.

[LAPOISSE]

I'm 100% with you demo ; something physical has been triggered ; doesn't mean that the psychological part have to be ignored ; Modern medecin tend to stricly separate the body and the mind which is a complete non sense.

The big question is why testosterone works on you, advil, taurine, niacin, some metal rebalancing, trazodone, ashwagandha, mytelase, SIBO treatment, canabis, neem leaf, wife pregnancy, desens therapy, vasectomy, changing girlfriend, some weird energy therapy of a israelian chaman, etc, etc have been reported to work for other people.

There is only one logical answer that have to be taking into consideration which is by the way a pretty good news and which has a important place beside the research.

Im' still very interested in hearing what other people here can say about experiences of sex related trauma or a special conception of what sex is(of course before POIS episodes...as POIS has made for all of us sex a special experience)

[Prancer]

Still don't believe in any bad upbringing factor, way too much credence is given to that. Even assuming one's parents DID misteach their children about sex or whatever, I don't see how that can result in these kinds of symptoms. There is such a thing as "thinking for oneself". Also, no one had to have a *great* childhood, just a normal childhood, without many unusual traumatic experiences. I was just reinforcing the point, in my earlier post, about a bad upbringing having little to no relevance to POIS by the fact that I had the complete polar opposite of a bad upbringing, and STILL developed POIS. I doubt too many of us had any overly traumatic experiences, but if you did, tell us, you don't have to be specific. Also, if you had a normal or above childhood, then please chime in too.

And one or two negative childhood experiences doesn't count (like death of a non-immediate family member, injury, scratching a game, losing a pokemon card, etc.), because nearly everyone had something like that and they do not get POIS.

[demografx]

Oh no! I thought it was because of losing a  Pokémon card!!

[Prancer]

Oh no! I thought it was because of losing a  Pokémon card!!

I lost one when I was 9, and freaked! BUT, I'm happy to say...that experience did NOT cause my POIS symptoms later on.

[demografx]

Are you sure      ??

[Quantum]

My symptoms were worse after an NE.

Hi Demo,

Interesting, to say the least..... it's the first time I hear on this forum about someone with symptoms worse after NE than waking state E.  I heard about the opposite, or also about equal severity for both.

POIS has for sure many clinical presentations.

Do you think those worst symptoms could have been caused by a longer contact time with semen, like a contact allergy?

In my case, I have no local, topical reaction at the contact of my semen, and the contact time does not seem to matter or correlate with severity of a particular episode. 

[Quantum]

Oh no! I thought it was because of losing a  Pokémon card!!

I lost one when I was 9, and freaked! BUT, I'm happy to say...that experience did NOT cause my POIS symptoms later on.

I never had any ¨Pokemon card ( I am too old ! )   Maybe the fact that I never had a Pokemon card has caused, through a time loop experience, my POIS   ?

Also, my son had Pokemon cards, and have lost one, a shiny one, with silver on it... when that happened, I already had POIS for 26 years.... Do you think it could be the cause of my POIS, through a wormhole in spacetime ?

[Outsider]

Hi POISrival and everyone,

I suppose that, even if POIS if possible even when you had a great childhood like Prancer had, that POIS indeed has a biological cause.  But, it would be appropriate to suppose as well that any bad influence due to a less than optimal education and childhood can add to the problem.

I didn't have good parents, even if they did all that they could, and they were very negatively oriented toward sexuality, and in general.  This may have helped in the fact that I had POIS from the very start, the first time I tried masturbation.   The psychological burden I have received from my chilhood and education just made it more complicated to understand and manage POIS.  Anxiety and psychological distress are not helping in any way for POIS.

I have an hypothesis, though, to try to discriminate between biological effects and psychological effects.  Would it be possible that the difference in severity from a waking state release vs a NE would indicate some psychological component, when waking state release is more severe?  I would be interested to ear from other members to see if that would fit with reality.   In my own case, my symptoms are worse after a waking state release.  I suppose that if my symptoms are less severe after a NE, it is because my waking state mind and its inhibiting beliefs and programming are not online, so there is less interference.  What do you think, and what is your own experience?

However, if someone like Prancer, who had a great childhood and didn't have a "primary POIS" ( right form the start), is having less symptoms after a NE than a waking state release, my hypothesis would be proven wrong.

If you agree to, please share if POIS is identical in severity or less severe after a NE, and if you had a good childhood and a positive sexual education or not.

Bjr quantum, lapoisse,
hi guys

I m pretty sure i have the pois because of pretty bad childhood, too much masturbation
and perhaps a link with my tonsil surgery

i remember always angry, crying, fighting
i began to think about suicide at perhaps 10, 12 years old
i had pretty bad childhood
and i m sure that's why i have the pois
but also i masturbed often

the last neurologist i saw, told me the two speciality Neurology and psychiatry
are very close

[Pentrazemine]

While I consider the psychological component totally bunk and ludicrous I have a question as a layman:

Given the Rutger's hypothesis of Vagus Nerve disruption I'm confused as to whether this is a nervous-system based issue or something that's akin to an immune imbalance with one's own seminal fluid?

You see - when I ejaculate, the proportion of the fluid expelled is relative to the severity of the symptoms.

There was also a user by the name of animus who had his prostate reduced, seminal vessels removed and he's enjoying 100% POIS-free life, as an anecdotal example.

Could this then imply that there's something in the fluid that my body is negatively reacting to? Or would the Vagus nerve have any semblance of this?

Can someone please answer me on this?

[LAPOISSE]

Bonjour outsider, quantum ( je viens juste de voir que vous ?tiez  francophone ; ) )


Hello Pentrazemine, 

I totally excluded for years any psychological component in POIS, nobody feels well with that and its pretty classic and convenient to find a purely external cause to a psychological related issue.

The problem with POIS is there is no pattern,no reproducibility ; some get better with something and other with basically  the opposite,  ; I've been reading this forum for 4 years now and read probably 90% of the post since then and nothing make sense ; there is nothing in common between the Animus story, the demography story, the dexter case,the kurtosis cure and the dozen of other miracle cure that we've been witness here. Research "cure" on the forum, it's baffling

My conclusion is (1) sex trigger symptoms  (2)we experience  a myriad of physical and mental symptoms that's are all real ; as much real than an ulcer is for exemple(3)the heterogeneity of the reported cure only lead to the conclusion that placebo effect is heavily involved (4) there is not a single symptom here that can't be explained by nervous system exhaustion, generalized anxiety, PTSD, etc(5)There is no debates today on the fact that when the mind goes wrong, it can totally mess up the body through neurotransmitters, hormone, etc.(6) if placebo is involved it means that nocebo is also possibly involved to and that the problem is reversible.

We know today that the state of mind is involved in the pronostic of cancer, possibly the causes ; it doesn't make it a fake disease ; it's totally stupid to oppose mind and body.

Look at this, its amazing :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWQfe__fNbs

For me the Rutgers study is very interesting as stimulating the VN might help to lower the symptoms even if I don't believe its the cause.

I've been working on that lead for a year now seeing a psychologist and practicing meditation and even if still experienced symptoms post orgasm, there duration and severity have been dramatically reduced and it's permanent . I'm able to basically kill pois symptoms just by meditating.It's a long shot that required commitment(basically my cure consist in (1)understand the source of the internal tensions and stop it and (2) teach the nervous system to react normally to orgasm and rebalance it. I believe it worth it and my logic tells me that it's better to eat tons of supplement or wait for magic cure. All that could also be wrong, to be 100% honest, I would prefer POIS to be recognized as having a biological cause and resolvable instantly and I still somehow expect that.

I'm remember how bad I felt when i read the Animus post ; 80% of my mind try to find argument to reject its theory totally but 20% knew it make sense.

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=226.0

I'm totally open to discuss about that...we can also make pokemon jokes if you prefer ; )

[Quantum]

While I consider the psychological component totally bunk and ludicrous I have a question as a layman:

Given the Rutger's hypothesis of Vagus Nerve disruption I'm confused as to whether this is a nervous-system based issue or something that's akin to an immune imbalance with one's own seminal fluid?

You see - when I ejaculate, the proportion of the fluid expelled is relative to the severity of the symptoms.

There was also a user by the name of animus who had his prostate reduced, seminal vessels removed and he's enjoying 100% POIS-free life, as an anecdotal example.

Could this then imply that there's something in the fluid that my body is negatively reacting to? Or would the Vagus nerve have any semblance of this?

Can someone please answer me on this?

Hi Pentrazemine  ( et bonjour Lapoisse ! ) ,


There is no clear and complete explanation of POIS yet.  There are, like Lapoisse have said, many diferent theories, and no supplements or solutions seems to work for every POIS sufferer - what works for one or a few may not work at all for others.

So, for now, you may have to make up your own mind, and read about what others here think.  There also will be the Rutgers study that will provide useful information.  You can also send a private message to Demografx in order to receive the few scientific articles that has already been written on POIS, in particular the two by Dr Waldinger.

Lapoisse have already outlined his own view to you.  If you want to read about my own take on the physiopathology of POIS, see my post at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2078.msg16431#msg16431 . In fact, the whole thread where this post comes from may be of interest to you, as it is called "Allergy or Neurological", which is quite in line with your above question.


I do not think that the POIS puzzle will be entirely solved in a near future.  In the meantime, you can try some of the things that have helped other membersget some relief, like meditation, yoga, natural products, vitamins, and so on.  Be sure to go slowly and safely in your experiments. 

[Pentrazemine]

While I consider the psychological component totally bunk and ludicrous I have a question as a layman:

Given the Rutger's hypothesis of Vagus Nerve disruption I'm confused as to whether this is a nervous-system based issue or something that's akin to an immune imbalance with one's own seminal fluid?

You see - when I ejaculate, the proportion of the fluid expelled is relative to the severity of the symptoms.

There was also a user by the name of animus who had his prostate reduced, seminal vessels removed and he's enjoying 100% POIS-free life, as an anecdotal example.

Could this then imply that there's something in the fluid that my body is negatively reacting to? Or would the Vagus nerve have any semblance of this?

Can someone please answer me on this?

Hi Pentrazemine  ( et bonjour Lapoisse ! ) ,


There is no clear and complete explanation of POIS yet.  There are, like Lapoisse have said, many diferent theories, and no supplements or solutions seems to work for every POIS sufferer - what works for one or a few may not work at all for others.

So, for now, you may have to make up your own mind, and read about what others here think.  There also will be the Rutgers study that will provide useful information.  You can also send a private message to Demografx in order to receive the few scientific articles that has already been written on POIS, in particular the two by Dr Waldinger.

Lapoisse have already outlined his own view to you.  If you want to read about my own take on the physiopathology of POIS, see my post at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2078.msg16431#msg16431 . In fact, the whole thread where this post comes from may be of interest to you, as it is called "Allergy or Neurological", which is quite in line with your above question.


I do not think that the POIS puzzle will be entirely solved in a near future.  In the meantime, you can try some of the things that have helped other membersget some relief, like meditation, yoga, natural products, vitamins, and so on.  Be sure to go slowly and safely in your experiments.

I've asked this before but do you think POIS will be fully cured by the 2030's or 2040's? I don't want to live the rest of my life like this...it's like a paraplegic unable to have sex cause of his spinal injury...it's making my life miserable.

Will there ever be a cure 10-20 years down the line? I know POIS was first recognized since only 2002 but it's already 2015 and my doctors still don't know what it is.