Author Topic: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study  (Read 281527 times)

b_jim

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2015, 01:37:06 PM »
I think Pois causes the arythmia.  And after years might cause cardiac problems. 
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demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #81 on: December 29, 2015, 03:28:52 PM »
I think Pois causes the arythmia.  And after years might cause cardiac problems.

I think you're right.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Quantum

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2015, 07:50:28 AM »
Hi Vandemolen, B_jim and Demo,

The interim report mentions "a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV)" , but this is different from cardiac arrhythmia.  They did not use the term "bradycardia", which is a heart rate below 60 bpm, and is a kind of arrhythmia.  From my point of view, they use the measurement of heart rate and HRV only as a way to reflect the changes in vagal tone.

Maybe POIS can cause arrhythmia for certain POIS sufferers, but I do not think that the report makes any statement about that. 


In my own case, POIS causes me marked hypotension ( when no prevention used), but no arrhythmia, and no cardiac problems.
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demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2015, 01:47:20 PM »
Thanks for your clarifying, Quantum.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Hoping

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2016, 12:14:46 PM »
So excited to hear about the Rutgers study! I realize it's all very preliminary, but it's definitely exciting to see some movement. Thanks to the research team, Stef, POIS participants, and NORD for all your work so far! What are next steps in terms of the study? Are there more interim reports coming out? What sort of timeline are we looking at?

The question is: is it the POIS that causes cardiac arrhythmia Or do we get POIS because of cardiac arrhythmia after an O? It's known that allergies cause cardiac arrhythmia.
I checked my heart rate in a normal situation. It's 80. Normal is 60-80. I didn't check my heart rate after an O. But I think also people without POIS have a different heart rate after an O.

Funny that I saw on the Comedy Show How I met your Mother that a guy gets a heart monitor at home. They followed him whole day and asked what he did at a certain time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Change_of_Heart_(How_I_Met_Your_Mother)

Just a real quick note here. It's my understanding (and others have mentioned in the forum) that HRV and heart rate are pretty different measures. So far, the study has only commented on a possible link with HRV. Assuming my understanding is correct, I just want to make sure we don't equate or confuse the two.
Experienced POIS since 2002.
My symptoms include: brain fog, depression, physical and mental fatigue, memory problems, social anxiety, concentration problems, myalgia, inflammation.

G-man

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2016, 10:45:16 PM »
Hi All,

Demo and Daveman just received the public portion of Dr. Komisaruk's interim report from NORD. Here it is --

"A preliminary interpretation of our current data is that POIS symptoms are accompanied by a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV), and that vagal stimulation may produce a beneficial effect on POIS symptoms (increased heart rate and HRV) as a 're-bound' from the vagal stimulation. These are very preliminary findings and continued research with additional participants is underway, to assess the reliability of these findings."

Stef

Hoping

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2016, 02:05:44 PM »
Looks like he does mention heart rate. My mistake! Thanks for the correction G-man.

Hi All,

Demo and Daveman just received the public portion of Dr. Komisaruk's interim report from NORD. Here it is --

"A preliminary interpretation of our current data is that POIS symptoms are accompanied by a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV), and that vagal stimulation may produce a beneficial effect on POIS symptoms (increased heart rate and HRV) as a 're-bound' from the vagal stimulation. These are very preliminary findings and continued research with additional participants is underway, to assess the reliability of these findings."

Stef
Experienced POIS since 2002.
My symptoms include: brain fog, depression, physical and mental fatigue, memory problems, social anxiety, concentration problems, myalgia, inflammation.

Stef

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2016, 12:03:29 AM »
"So excited to hear about the Rutgers study! I realize it's all very preliminary, but it's definitely exciting to see some movement. Thanks to the research team, Stef, POIS participants, and NORD for all your work so far! What are next steps in terms of the study? Are there more interim reports coming out? What sort of timeline are we looking at?"

Hi, Hoping (and Everyone),

The Rutgers study is a one-year study. There was a several-month delay in starting it due to the IRB Committee having questions, needing clarifications, etc., so NORD's MAC granted Dr. K. a one-year extension. This is why iit all moved at a snail's pace at the beginning.

(IRB delays are expected, because patient safety is paramount and every step has to be entirely understood and approved. Also, iit's lkely that none of the committee members had ever heard of POIS, so there may have been more questions than usual.)

Based on the paragraph provided by Dr. Komisaruk, it sounds like the study is moving full-steam ahead at this point. It has another six months, and should be completed around April or May 2016. The final report is due within 60 days of completion. So, the next (final) report should be received by NORD in June or July at the latest.

Dr. Komisaruk will undoubtedly write a paper with all the details, and it will be published in a reputable mefical journal. You'll all be able to read it, word for word, once it's published. With luck his paper will be accepted and published quickly.

I hope that was helpful!

Best wishes,
Stef








demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #88 on: January 04, 2016, 12:12:23 AM »
It was. Thank you, Stef.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Observer

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2016, 10:55:53 AM »
Hi All,

Demo and Daveman just received the public portion of Dr. Komisaruk's interim report from NORD. Here it is --

"A preliminary interpretation of our current data is that POIS symptoms are accompanied by a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV), and that vagal stimulation may produce a beneficial effect on POIS symptoms (increased heart rate and HRV) as a 're-bound' from the vagal stimulation. These are very preliminary findings and continued research with additional participants is underway, to assess the reliability of these findings."

Stef

Hello Stef, Hi everyone,

Amazing news, isn't it?

I was just wondering what kind of situations could act as "triggers" of Low HRV (Stress, bad sleep, auto-inmune diseases, eating some foods ...), and also which ones act doing the opposite (raising HRV -like stimulating the vagus nerve), in order to relate them to our POIS experiences.

I don't know if this makes sense, so I'm just sharing the idea.


COLM_2

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #90 on: January 04, 2016, 12:05:21 PM »
Happy NEW Year everyone !
Colm

I was just wondering what kind of situations could act as "triggers" of Low HRV (Stress, bad sleep, auto-inmune diseases, eating some foods ...), and also which ones act doing the opposite (raising HRV -like stimulating the vagus nerve), in order to relate them to our POIS experiences.

I don't know if this makes sense, so I'm just sharing the idea.

Hi Observer,

Just a reminder of the interesting and helpful "Vagus Nerve stimulation" document loaded by forum member USERNAME recently

The link is http://selfhacked.com/2015/07/30/28-ways-to-stimulate-your-vagus-nerve-and-all-you-need-to-know-about-it/

Hope this is helpful

All the best,
Colm
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 12:08:19 PM by COLM_2 »
Formerly user COLM (previous username accidentally deleted). Few decades with POIS.

COLM_2

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #91 on: January 04, 2016, 12:09:49 PM »
Happy NEW Year everyone !
Colm

I was just wondering what kind of situations could act as "triggers" of Low HRV (Stress, bad sleep, auto-inmune diseases, eating some foods ...), and also which ones act doing the opposite (raising HRV -like stimulating the vagus nerve), in order to relate them to our POIS experiences.

I don't know if this makes sense, so I'm just sharing the idea.

Hi Observer,

Just a reminder of the interesting and helpful "Vagus Nerve stimulation" document loaded by forum member USERNAME recently

The link is http://selfhacked.com/2015/07/30/28-ways-to-stimulate-your-vagus-nerve-and-all-you-need-to-know-about-it/

Hope this is useful and perhaps anyone could comment if they specifically have experience with, would recommend or discourage any of the techniques with regard to the Heart Rate Variability issue, or whether these Vagus Nerve stimulation techniques are best used within or outside a POIS cycle.

Most easy to understand ones in high level form below - feel free to comment

Stimulating Your Vagus Nerve.
1. Meditation
2. Have Positive Social Relationships
3. Breath Deeply and Slowly
4. Probiotics
5. Exercise
6. Cold
7. Massages
8. Fasting
9. Sleep or Lay on Your Right Side
10. Yoga
11. Tai Chi
12. Singing or Chanting
13. Gargling
14. Tongue Depressors
15. Acupuncture
16. Oxytocin
17. Zinc
18. Serotonin
19. Chew Gum: CCK
20. Laughter
21. Coffee Enemas
22. Coughing or Tensing the Stomach Muscles
23. Fish Oil – EPA and DHA
24. Make Sure Your Thyroid Hormones/T3 Are Normal
25. Prayer

Link above for the details.


All the best,
Colm
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 12:26:58 PM by COLM_2 »
Formerly user COLM (previous username accidentally deleted). Few decades with POIS.

demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #92 on: January 04, 2016, 02:58:31 PM »



                                           |2016|




Have a great 2016, Colm!


« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 11:19:31 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Observer

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #93 on: January 04, 2016, 04:23:02 PM »
Happy NEW Year everyone !
Colm

I was just wondering what kind of situations could act as "triggers" of Low HRV (Stress, bad sleep, auto-inmune diseases, eating some foods ...), and also which ones act doing the opposite (raising HRV -like stimulating the vagus nerve), in order to relate them to our POIS experiences.

I don't know if this makes sense, so I'm just sharing the idea.

Hi Observer,

Just a reminder of the interesting and helpful "Vagus Nerve stimulation" document loaded by forum member USERNAME recently

The link is http://selfhacked.com/2015/07/30/28-ways-to-stimulate-your-vagus-nerve-and-all-you-need-to-know-about-it/

Hope this is helpful

All the best,
Colm

Happy new year, Colm, demografx and everyone!!

Thanks for sharing this valuable information. I definitely agree that some (at least the ones that I've experienced) of these points actually work.

Best Regards,

demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #94 on: January 04, 2016, 08:48:59 PM »
Has anyone posted a definition of Rutgers' study remark, " 'rebound' from vagal stimulation"?

I found this:

"Vagal rebound, a sharp increase in variability in the first minute of recovery, was reduced in men in..."
Vagal rebound and recovery from psychological stress
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11485119/

Maybe there's something better to help us understand Dr. K.'s 'rebound' remark in the NORD Interim Report?

« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 11:16:04 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

joelawerence

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #95 on: January 05, 2016, 10:07:22 AM »
It's great that this research is going on now. Do you guys know as to what are the parameters that are being measured for this research? Does it include testosterone or nay other hormone levels measurement? Thanks.
33 years old, POIS for around 12 years with increasing severity.
Major symptoms - Severe fatigue, back pain, unrefreshed even after 9+ hours sleep, pain behind eyes, very dry face, bald head with inflamed scalp, digestion issues and constipation. Very low testosterone and high glucose in blood tests

BluesBrother

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #96 on: January 06, 2016, 07:23:53 AM »
"A preliminary interpretation of our current data is that POIS symptoms are accompanied by a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV), and that vagal stimulation may produce a beneficial effect on POIS symptoms (increased heart rate and HRV) as a 're-bound' from the vagal stimulation. These are very preliminary findings and continued research with additional participants is underway, to assess the reliability of these findings."

Does any of you (Stef, Demo, Daveman, Nightingale) know whether the statement about POIS symptoms being accompanied by a lowered heart rate and HRV refers to:

1. within-person variation, that is, a person with POIS has lower heart rate and HRV when experiencing POIS symptoms, compared to times where this same person is not experiencing POIS symptoms

2. between-person variation, that is, a person with POIS has lower heart rate and HRV when experiencing POIS symptoms compared to a person who does not have POIS - and both persons are assessed shortly after orgasm/ejaculation

I hope the statement refers to case 2 - since case 1 would not rule out the possibility that everyone, whether suffering from POIS or not, experiences lower heart rate and HRV after orgasm/ejaculation.


A Happy 2016 to all of you!
Used to have brain fog, flue-like symptoms, un-refreshing sleep, extreme exhaustion, muscle and joint pain, digestive problems, social anxiety, urge to urinate frequently.
Used niacin in the past. Now using nanna1's maintenance stack. Exhaustion and brain fog now main problem. 3-day POIS cycle

Stef

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #97 on: January 06, 2016, 11:39:19 AM »
"A preliminary interpretation of our current data is that POIS symptoms are accompanied by a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV), and that vagal stimulation may produce a beneficial effect on POIS symptoms (increased heart rate and HRV) as a 're-bound' from the vagal stimulation. These are very preliminary findings and continued research with additional participants is underway, to assess the reliability of these findings."

Does any of you (Stef, Demo, Daveman, Nightingale) know whether the statement about POIS symptoms being accompanied by a lowered heart rate and HRV refers to:

1. within-person variation, that is, a person with POIS has lower heart rate and HRV when experiencing POIS symptoms, compared to times where this same person is not experiencing POIS symptoms

2. between-person variation, that is, a person with POIS has lower heart rate and HRV when experiencing POIS symptoms compared to a person who does not have POIS - and both persons are assessed shortly after orgasm/ejaculation

I hope the statement refers to case 2 - since case 1 would not rule out the possibility that everyone, whether suffering from POIS or not, experiences lower heart rate and HRV after orgasm/ejaculation.


A Happy 2016 to all of you!

Hi, Blues Brother and All --

Dr. Komisaruk has definitely included men without POIS ("control subjects") in the study.

Also -- I know this is obvious but just as a reminder -- POIS symptoms play a huge role in the study. Dr. Komisaruk is looking at changes in the HR and HRV as they relate to POIS symptoms.   

Based on the above, I'm pretty sure he's referring to your case #2 statement.

(This waiting for definitive findings/answers is really tough!)

Stef



demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #98 on: January 06, 2016, 08:33:50 PM »
"A preliminary interpretation of our current data is that POIS symptoms are accompanied by a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV), and that vagal stimulation may produce a beneficial effect on POIS symptoms (increased heart rate and HRV) as a 're-bound' from the vagal stimulation. These are very preliminary findings and continued research with additional participants is underway, to assess the reliability of these findings."

Does any of you (Stef, Demo, Daveman, Nightingale) know whether the statement about POIS symptoms being accompanied by a lowered heart rate and HRV refers to:

1. within-person variation, that is, a person with POIS has lower heart rate and HRV when experiencing POIS symptoms, compared to times where this same person is not experiencing POIS symptoms

2. between-person variation, that is, a person with POIS has lower heart rate and HRV when experiencing POIS symptoms compared to a person who does not have POIS - and both persons are assessed shortly after orgasm/ejaculation

I hope the statement refers to case 2 - since case 1 would not rule out the possibility that everyone, whether suffering from POIS or not, experiences lower heart rate and HRV after orgasm/ejaculation.


A Happy 2016 to all of you!

Hi, Blues Brother and All --

Dr. Komisaruk has definitely included men without POIS ("control subjects") in the study.

Also -- I know this is obvious but just as a reminder -- POIS symptoms play a huge role in the study. Dr. Komisaruk is looking at changes in the HR and HRV as they relate to POIS symptoms.   

Based on the above, I'm pretty sure he's referring to your case #2 statement.

(This waiting for definitive findings/answers is really tough!)

Stef

Thanks, Stef!

demo


« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 08:39:53 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #99 on: January 28, 2016, 10:15:34 AM »

akilles, belated welcome to POISCenter.com!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business