Author Topic: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study  (Read 226462 times)

Daveman

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2015, 05:38:17 AM »
Jacqui just now followed up with this:

"I have also asked the PI to pay particular attention to the section I can share with you and be as comprehensive as he possibly can. All the best, Jacqui"

Yes, as I understand it, they "control" public releases, because at this point it is impossible to be able to have come to a definitve evaluation. They may have very good probabilities of "a given outcome" or very little information related to what they expected. In both cases they have to dig deeper an try to be very definitive.

We don't want anything "half baked", and of course nor do they. There's probably been too much of this with POIS.

So they can't raise OR lower expectations until they have something real.

I'm sure that whatever the outcome, we'll have something in our hands (that doesn't give us POIS :) :), something that is real.... a solution or at least a real starting point.

The wait is tough. But its all part of the process. Sigh
WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2015, 02:59:19 PM »
Double sigh, Daveman!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

LAPOISSE

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2015, 10:05:00 AM »
Hello,

Weren't you expecting something for the end of last week ?

demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2015, 05:00:17 PM »

Hello,

Weren't you expecting something for the end of last week ?


Good news: the report's been received.

Now it just needs approval to release.

10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Hopeful Indian

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2015, 11:02:37 AM »
hmmmm....
waiting for that.

Stef

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2015, 04:33:04 PM »
Hi All,

Demo and Daveman just received the public portion of Dr. Komisaruk's interim report from NORD. Here it is --

"A preliminary interpretation of our current data is that POIS symptoms are accompanied by a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV), and that vagal stimulation may produce a beneficial effect on POIS symptoms (increased heart rate and HRV) as a 're-bound' from the vagal stimulation. These are very preliminary findings and continued research with additional participants is underway, to assess the reliability of these findings."

Stef



« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 05:12:48 PM by Stef »

demografx

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2015, 05:08:14 PM »

Stef!

10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Quantum

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2015, 05:42:50 PM »
Hi All,

Demo and Daveman just received the public portion of Dr. Komisaruk's interim report from NORD. Here it is --

"A preliminary interpretation of our current data is that POIS symptoms are accompanied by a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV), and that vagal stimulation may produce a beneficial effect on POIS symptoms (increased heart rate and HRV) as a 're-bound' from the vagal stimulation. These are very preliminary findings and continued research with additional participants is underway, to assess the reliability of these findings."

Stef

Thanks Stef for posting the report.

Very intriguing results.  The vagus nerve effect on the heart is to slow it down, so, what I understand is, you slow down the heart even more with vagus nerve stimulation, in order to provoke a "rebound".... well, that is how i make sense of what is said in the report.  Am I the only one to hear it that way?


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Stef

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2015, 07:34:09 PM »

Very intriguing results.  The vagus nerve effect on the heart is to slow it down, so, what I understand is, you slow down the heart even more with vagus nerve stimulation, in order to provoke a "rebound".... well, that is how i make sense of what is said in the report.  Am I the only one to hear it that way?

Quantum, that's the way I interpreted it.

I find it very interesting that he's found decreased heart rate variability (HRV) in the patients he's screened.

Stef




Quantum

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2015, 11:25:59 PM »
I find it very interesting that he's found decreased heart rate variability (HRV) in the patients he's screened.

Stef

Back when I was using my device from the Heartmath Institute, a biofeedback device that helps in  increasing HRV, it wasn't long before I saw that high HRV means "feeling good", and 'in the zone".   I do not remember having using it during POIS acute phase, to measure my HRV, but when in POIS, you feel so "zoned out" that it makes sense that your HRV has gone down.

Meditation, relaxation, binaural beats, are good to help raise my HRV ( that, I have measured with my Freeze-Framer)... no surprise that those tools has been part of my overall approach in reducing the severity and duration of my POIS.

I am looking forward for more information from what they have found, and how they think vagus nerve stimulation works against POIS symptoms, and how good it works.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 11:38:37 PM by Quantum »
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Quantum

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2015, 11:29:44 PM »
I wonder if my 5-way cardiac bypass 5 years ago is somehow related?

You mean your POIS got less severe after your bypasses have been done, Demo?
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username

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2015, 02:27:22 AM »
Hello senior members....its good know about report . forgive me if i may have missed some info, as i wish to ask did Dr k has involved men not suffering from pois in his research ? To compare n establish something abnormal in us (vagus nerve thing)

b_jim

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2015, 09:49:18 AM »
Quote
I wonder if my 5-way cardiac bypass 5 years ago is somehow related?

Yes, I think so ! I remember I wrote a post and I said it's possible that Poisers will have cardiac problems with age. I think we have some poisers in this case.
--
Now, the study didn't give the cause of the cause but an intermediate cause.
Now, we have a point to connect some of our "remedies" :
niacine <=> heart
garlic <=> heart
taurine <=> heart
.... etc
--
Quote
Meditation, relaxation, binaural beats, are good to help raise my HRV ( that, I have measured with my Freeze-Framer)... no surprise that those tools has been part of my overall approach in reducing the severity and duration of my POIS.

To raise ? or to decrease ?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 10:31:57 AM by b_jim »
Taurine = Anti-Pois
Suffering from lyme disease

akilles

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2015, 10:54:36 AM »
So if I understand this correct, the theory is that the orgasm slows down the heartrate and because of that the body don`t get enough oxygen and because of that  you feel tired. I know that that my heartrate doesn?t slow down. So in this study how much did the heart slow down and for how many Days?

Stef

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2015, 11:09:37 AM »
Hello senior members....its good know about report . forgive me if i may have missed some info, as i wish to ask did Dr k has involved men not suffering from pois in his research ? To compare n establish something abnormal in us (vagus nerve thing)

Hi username, and welcome to the forum!

The answer to your question is yes -- Dr. K is including "control subjects" (men without POIS) in this study.

Stef

Quantum

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2015, 11:29:46 AM »
Quote
Meditation, relaxation, binaural beats, are good to help raise my HRV ( that, I have measured with my Freeze-Framer)... no surprise that those tools has been part of my overall approach in reducing the severity and duration of my POIS.

To raise ? or to decrease ?

Hi b_jim,

Short answer: what you want is to raise your HRV.  Following are more details.

Heart rate variability (HRV) is a very interesting measurement.  It is different form the heart rate.  HRV is the subtle variation in your heart rhythm, cyclically, over a short period of time, like during a breathing cycle.  One of the main cause of HRV is what is called the respiratory sinus arrhythmia.  In lay terms, that means that your heart rate slightly speeds up during inspiration, and slightly slows down during expiration.  That's because when you inhale, it lowers the vagal tone influence on the heart, and when you exhale, the vagal tone influence on the heart is heightened, so the heart slows down a bit. 

A high HRV means you have pronounced speeding up and slowing down of your heart rhythm.  A lower HRV means you heart keeps more or less the same rhythm, not really as mechanical as a clock, but have less variation in rate than expected values.

A reduced HRV is associated with heart problem, with depression, with PTSD, high anxiety, and other problems.  It even has been shown to be a predictor of mortality after myocardial infarction.

A high HRV is associated with peak performance, with feeling in the zone, with optimal vagal tone, and with balance between sympathetic and parasympathetic systems.  Here is how the Hearthmath institute puts it: "Numerous studies show HRV is a key indicator of physiological resiliency and behavioral flexibility, and can reflect an ability to adapt effectively to stress and environmental demands." ( https://www.heartmath.org/articles-of-the-heart/the-math-of-heartmath/heart-rate-variability/ ).

So, to answer your question, what is desirable is to raise Heart Rate Variability ( HRV ).

The fact that in POIS acute phase, HRV is lowered, it clearly shows that the balance between vagal tone and sympathetic tone is disrupted.  We all, POIS sufferers, know for a fact that during POIS acute phase, we are litterally out of whack, don't we?. This lower HRV shows it in a measurable way, the Rutgers study tells us.


For anyone interested in more in-depth information about HRV, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_rate_variability and https://www.heartmath.org/articles-of-the-heart/the-math-of-heartmath/heart-rate-variability/ .
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 11:44:10 AM by Quantum »
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b_jim

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2015, 11:44:54 AM »
Im not 100% agree with you Quantum. But maybe we should open another topic because I don't want to polluate this one.

I have opened a new topic to talk about heart and HRV :
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2179.0
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 11:53:53 AM by b_jim »
Taurine = Anti-Pois
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staypositive

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2015, 11:52:00 AM »
Does cardio increase the HRV? For some reason cardio kinda lowered my pois symptoms, when I remember it right.

less_fogged

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2015, 12:03:15 PM »
Hi All,

Demo and Daveman just received the public portion of Dr. Komisaruk's interim report from NORD. Here it is --

"A preliminary interpretation of our current data is that POIS symptoms are accompanied by a lowered heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV), and that vagal stimulation may produce a beneficial effect on POIS symptoms (increased heart rate and HRV) as a 're-bound' from the vagal stimulation. These are very preliminary findings and continued research with additional participants is underway, to assess the reliability of these findings."

Stef

Thanks Stef, dr. Komisaruk, dr. Nan Wise and all involved..........Nightingale

Another small step further and almost Christmas again


Stef

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Re: NORD Interim Report for POIS Study
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2015, 12:28:02 PM »
So if I understand this correct, the theory is that the orgasm slows down the heartrate and because of that the body don`t get enough oxygen and because of that  you feel tired. I know that that my heartrate doesn?t slow down. So in this study how much did the heart slow down and for how many Days?

Hi akilles,

My understanding from Dr. K.'s public statement is that in the small group of POIS participants studied to date, the symptoms of POIS are accompanied by a decreased heart rate and a decreased heart rate variability (HRV). Keep in mind, he's comparing the heart rates and HRVs of men with and without POIS...and so far, it seems he's found a difference.

You may or may not not notice the decreased heart rate while you're experiencing POIS symptoms, but I don't think one can measure his/her HRV. It's a value that's measured via a specialized monitor.

Perhaps more importantly, the vagus nerve is directly involved in the release of certain neurotransmitters, so the heart rate and HRV may be measurable signs that indicate abnormal neurotransmitter release during POIS. (That's only my interpretation.)

There's much more to this that Dr. Komisaruk won't be addressing at this point in the study (like specific heart rate).

Stef