Poll

Do You think POIS is an immune disease or Nerological illness

Inflammatory related (complete inflammatory in the 1st place)
21 (65.6%)
Neurological (complete Mental )
3 (9.4%)
both "with no relation to each others "
2 (6.3%)
Enzyme deficiency that controll neurotransmitters and immune factors
6 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Author Topic: Allergy or neurological  (Read 32900 times)

Labyrinth

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Allergy or neurological
« on: May 20, 2015, 02:42:11 PM »
hello guys  . can u help me and other ppl in the forum . inorder not keep wandering between immune theory and neurological theory . POIS is what immune or Mental disease .
Cuz some ppl say it is mental agony !!!! others say it is inflammatory issue so we need her to put ourself in a certain way is it inflammatory or pure mental . and THank u

can u mention why u said it is inflammatory or Mental ?!
POIS of 10 yrs now

Labyrinth

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2015, 02:44:26 PM »
i say inflammatory cuz certain food induce pois like gluten rice and legumes . and becuse some time i get itchiness in the skin with sinus flare and irritable colon with burn feeling in my head  and i feel that depression is secondory to sonsumtion of neurotransmitters by the inflammatory process that happens ^_^
POIS of 10 yrs now

G-man

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2015, 05:20:46 PM »
I think it is immunological. People that have no neurological issues can be in mental agony when they get sick with a bacterial or viral infection. Therefore, mental agony is not unique to people with neurological problems. This is not proof that POIS is not neurological, but it does prove that it is possible POIS is not neurological.

I think the mechanism of POIS is something like this:
Sexual Stimulation > ? > ? > Immune Reaction to Food

Whether this is due to a leaky gut or something else, I am not sure.

I have been taking supplements for the last month to rebuild my immune system by rebuilding my gut. The duration of my symptoms are down to two days instead of the usual six days. Last Thursday afternoon I have an O, so on Saturday I was expecting to feel 100%. I still felt lethargic like I was in a mild POIS state on Saturday and Sunday, and felt really disappointed that the symptoms lasted more than two days. On Monday I find out that I am sick with a bacterial infection. I didn't realize I was POIS free on Saturday because the symptoms of being sick are so similar that I was unable to tell the difference.
31 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

POISrival

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2015, 05:25:02 PM »
All the bowel symptoms can be due to increased acidity of the stomach, Anti-Acids could be good to try. Im kind of skeptical that POIS has something to do with food, because I would get POIS even without eating anything. May be POIS increases with eating certain kinds of food, but they don't cause it. Only Ejaculations=POIS. I had never been allergic to any kind of food before puberty.

My guess, and its just a guess. POIS is a universal inflammation all over the body. and the mental problems could be similar the problems that come with aspetic meningitis which is non infection inflammation of the brain.  (Photophobia makes me think its meningitis)
I still think there is a neurological side to it too tho.
POIS is my worst enemy

Labyrinth

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2015, 06:06:58 PM »
how about there is certain event that is happening out side CNS and depleting ur neurotransmitters , that then lead to pois !! for example an infection or chronic inflammation increasing ur level of certain neurotransmitters or decreasing it , then when u orgasm ur body need N.S or there is excess of it so u end up having pois  .

Or a certain enzyme deficiency , but if enzyme deficiency it gonna be universal to all body as u all mentioned guys . it is challenging illness ^_^
POIS of 10 yrs now

G-man

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2015, 10:05:45 PM »
Even when fasting for multiple days, there is still food in the GI tract. If POIS is not due to food, the only other explanation I can think of is that sexual stimulation causes a reaction in some organism living in out gastrointestinal tract. This could be bacteria, viruses, fungi, or parasites. If that is the case, sexual stimulation could cause the organism to release toxins.

Quantum has posted here a few times about how immune responses lower the amount of tryptophan and consequently serotonin. He knows a lot more about it than I do. I posted an article that talks about it here http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1565.msg15762#msg15762
31 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

Colm

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2015, 07:06:23 AM »
Hello Labyrinth, POIS Rival & G-Man,

Thank you for your dialogue here. I also find this debate between diet, inflammation vs Neural fascinating, but also conflicting. I am also interested that Photophobia in POIS (one of my own long term symptoms) comes up here on this discussion.

The Nutrition & Gut Debate.
For what it is worth, I have been trying the gut healing approach since last July, with minor, but limited impact on my overall symptoms. No cure ! Some great contributors here have influenced my dietary and supplement choices, along with the guidance of a qualified nutritionist who has been supporting me. I take no medications and I also avoid alcohol a long time now, doing all the good things to be able to live with POIS. Recent comprehensive medical check up shows everything absolutely normal (physiology & bloods etc) and no allergies.

Perhaps it is because my symptoms have become chronic that I don't seem to be experiencing the nutritional breakthroughs of others (perhaps a difficulty with uptake of nutrients), or maybe I just haven?t found the right combinations to recover from POIS. I haven't given up yet on it, as I committed that I would take this road for one year, and evaluate it then, before cutting back somewhat on supplements.

For me, the jury is still out on whether the pure nutritional approach can help someone who has had POIS for a longer time. Perhaps for those who have had it less time, it will reverse the symptoms. SO, I am definitely not saying don?t try diet. Everyone?s different and some have more of the different combination in their POIS clusters of symptoms ("Clusters" as Quantum created for us).

Photophobia.
I am not sure if you have Photophobia (allergy/sensitivity to sunlight) also., POIS Rival. It has been a key component along with Seborrheic Dermatitis for me, since my symptoms kicked in. 

For example, although not the hottest month where I live, yesterday I had to walk about a mile with the sun shining, and without access to a hat or my sunglasses. This is a very difficult experience for me (worse in mid-June to Late August), because it makes me feel very unwell and also my skin flares up (scalp and face). NOTE: This is a lot worse during the 3/4 days after an "O". Sadly had an NE 3 days back. Interestingly, taking multivitamin daily along with periodic and safe quantities of Zinc, Ecodophilus, Taurine, Turmeric, Ginger, Moducare, Quecetin, Omega 3, Flaxseed Oil and a few others as a supplemental combination seems to delay the main onset of all clusters of POIS symptoms for me, but they just hit me a bit later, and perhaps for not as long. So that's interesting too perhaps.

Photophobia may be an immune system reaction more than an allergy, however, there is inflammation with the symptoms of POIS for me also. I can see how the neurological piece fits too, because surely neural pathways get laid down in a response to POIS. I vote yes for inflammatory more, but with the others triggered by the inflammatory process. I'd never make a good researcher obviously !

Photophobia & Skin problems in POIS?
I don?t think that the Photophobia or skin piece was focused on in the survey because it probably isn?t relevant to the theories of POIS being focused upon in this research study. However, I am interested to know if other have an allergy / sensitivity to sunshine. I?d also put up a poll, but I think posts just get buried after a day or two ? just the nature of a big forum.

All the best and if you got this far, thanks for reading ! 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 07:24:14 AM by Colm »

G-man

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2015, 11:05:00 PM »
I have a sensitivity to bright light, but that has to do with my eyes. I don't have photophobia. But it does run in my mom's family, she can only stand 30 minutes of sunlight without sunscreen.

I have had problems with dry skin and dandruff for a long time. This started to disappear after starting a new supplement regime 5 weeks ago, and now my skin is baby soft.

I mentioned to my holistic doctor that fasting helped my symptoms, and that it's likely POIS is an immune issue. So he put me on four supplements to repair my gut, the logic being that 70% of the immune system is in the gut. My lungs, sinuses, ears, and skin have all cleared up substantially in 5 weeks. The plan is to take the supplements for 3-4 months, and see what happens.

At this point I'm more concerned with what is working to fight POIS than I am with trying to prove any specific theory. I know my supplements are working for me so the next step is to find out if they work for anyone else. I am taking Ortho Biotic once a day, 2 GALT Fortifier capsules twice a day, Vitanox twice a day, and Gut Flora Complex three times a day. The incrediants for the supplements are listed below

Ortho Biotic:
Proprietary Blend 20 Billion CFU:
  Lactobacillus acidophilus
  Lactobacillus paracasei
  Bifidobacterium bifidum
  Bifidobacterium lactis
  Lactobacillus plantarum
  Lactobacillus rhamnosus
Saccharomyces boulardii 2 billion CFU

GALT Fortifier:
Colostrum 900mg
Beta Glucan 300mg
Fish Protein 250mg
Okra (Dried Fruit) 100mg
Lemon Balm (Leaf) 30mg
Pepsin 1:10,000 20mg
Rosemary (leaf) 15mg

Vitanox:
Calcium 40mg
Rosemary leaf 5:1 extract 200mg
Green Tea leaf 25:1 extract 166.7mg
Turmeric rhizome 25:1 extract 80mg
Grape seed 120:1 extract 50mg

Gut Flora Complex:
Anise fruit essential oil 125mg
Andrographis ariel parts 10:1 extract 100mg
Phellodendron stem bark 20:1 extract 80mg
Oregano leaf essential oil 75mg
31 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

POISrival

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2015, 02:15:40 PM »
If there is a problem with bowel absorption, supplments shouldnt help.Because they have the same metabolic route as normal food. May be we all feel better with supplements because thats how everyone is supposed to feel when they take itIf you guys take supplemnts parenterally and it helps, I would be more convinced POIS has something to do with nutrient imbalance. However, im pretty sure my digestive tract suffers during an episode of POIS,its one of the symptoms (or may be complications of POIS), not one of the causes. POIS effects starts immediately after orgasm, may be even slightly when im sexually aroused. If it had something to do with nutrients insufficiency, it would take sometime till the POIS effects start to take place, because the body always have reserves of stored nutrients to use. Anyways, thats just my opinion. And yeah it matters more to know what  treats POIS rather than what causes it. But would we ever be able to find what treats it perfectelly without knowing its cause? I hope.
POIS is my worst enemy

superfrancais

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2015, 02:42:50 PM »
However, I am interested to know if other have an allergy / sensitivity to sunshine. I?d also put up a poll, but I think posts just get buried after a day or two ? just the nature of a big forum.

Yes, my eyes are very sensitive to light as well (sunshine, computer screen, etc), as I described in this (buried) post : http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1371.msg16035#msg16035

But contrary to you I have absolutely no skin reaction to sunshine. It is just a serious eye discomfort.
20 years of both mental and physical symptoms after love, chronic fatigue and depression even with abstinence, French (Lyon)

Labyrinth

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2015, 04:18:07 PM »
Hello Guys , Thanks alot for this impressive discussion , i think by knowing that it is inflammatory as u all proving we have reached 50 % of approaching the disease . However inflammatory "vague" symptoms doesnt specify what is inflammatory specifically . inflammatory cAN be AB antigen complex , can be allergy "wheales flares " ca be so many ways . but in pois  there is a specific inflammatory changes which make  sense to me . It is Oxidative stress , or oxidative radicals increase in the head

http://selfhacked.com/2013/06/15/the-cause-of-brain-fog/        in this article it explains most of findings and causes related to oxidative stress. A dr wrote down this article he was suffering  from lectins sensitivity

my thoery so far which is tiny comparing to ur brightening ideas is that there is deficiency in one of peroxidase enzyme which is respocible for removing oxidative stress from head hence we end up having pois
pois : is the brain shouting for help because of attack by certain oxidative radical which is hardly removed by NSAIDS or paracetamol . However steroid can do it .

another interesting finding that after wheat and rice and many dairies my stomach hearts and certain type of  colon spasm happens directly upon exposure to the food .
which is proving me that it is not neurological it is inflammatory oxidative stress in GI tract as well


 
POIS of 10 yrs now

Labyrinth

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2015, 04:20:01 PM »


At this point I'm more concerned with what is working to fight POIS than I am with trying to prove any specific theory. I know my supplements are working for me so the next step is to find out if they work for anyone else. I am taking Ortho Biotic once a day, 2 GALT Fortifier capsules twice a day, Vitanox twice a day, and Gut Flora Complex three times a day. The incrediants for the supplements are listed below


You are going in the right tract it has direct relation to Gi tract and  maybe even the GI tract is the cause of this syndrome keep reassuring us with these findings ^_^
POIS of 10 yrs now

G-man

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2015, 12:41:21 AM »
Hello Guys , Thanks alot for this impressive discussion , i think by knowing that it is inflammatory as u all proving we have reached 50 % of approaching the disease . However inflammatory "vague" symptoms doesnt specify what is inflammatory specifically . inflammatory cAN be AB antigen complex , can be allergy "wheales flares " ca be so many ways . but in pois  there is a specific inflammatory changes which make  sense to me . It is Oxidative stress , or oxidative radicals increase in the head

http://selfhacked.com/2013/06/15/the-cause-of-brain-fog/        in this article it explains most of findings and causes related to oxidative stress. A dr wrote down this article he was suffering  from lectins sensitivity

my thoery so far which is tiny comparing to ur brightening ideas is that there is deficiency in one of peroxidase enzyme which is respocible for removing oxidative stress from head hence we end up having pois
pois : is the brain shouting for help because of attack by certain oxidative radical which is hardly removed by NSAIDS or paracetamol . However steroid can do it .

My doctor mentioned that the Green Tea leaf extract in Vitanox contained catechins and this helped with oxidative stress. Oxidative stress was one of the things he was talking to me about, but I don't remember much of what he said. I'll give him a call next week to find out what possible relation oxidative stress has with POIS.

If there is a problem with bowel absorption, supplments shouldnt help.Because they have the same metabolic route as normal food. May be we all feel better with supplements because thats how everyone is supposed to feel when they take itIf you guys take supplemnts parenterally and it helps, I would be more convinced POIS has something to do with nutrient imbalance.

I think I see the point you are trying to make here. This assumes the supplement needs to be absorbed into the bloodstream in order to be effective. I think the supplements I am currently taking are helping because they target the gut, and likely don't need to be absorbed to be effective. I think these supplements are helping correct absorption issues.

Here is a description of GALT Fortifier:
http://www.juliathuntermd.com/jthstore/img/cms/GALT-Fortifier_Final.pdf

The primary function of the small intestine is the digestion and assimilation of food and nutrients. During this process, it will also be exposed to food antigens, bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites and other pathogens.

Most of the immune function of the body is contained in Gut Associated Lymphoid Tissue (GALT). Located in the intestinal lining, GALT consists of lym-phocytes, macrophages, Peyer’s Patches and lymph nodes.

Peyer’s patches are lymphoid follicles in the small intestine. They consist of a layer of specialized epithelial cells, called M cells, which sit above follicles containing B and T lymphocytes. Similar in action to the rest of the immune system, M cells trap antigens from the gut and present them to the lymphocytes in the follicles below. This offers a quick and efficient immune response to invading pathogens, food antigens, impaired digestive products.

In response, the small intestine cells in the small intestine release a layer of protective mucus, seeking to lubricate and protect them from further damage. This layer of mucus however, also prevents access by digestive enzymes and immune cells to the food particles and antigens in the lumen of the small intestine.

GALT Fortifier may assist in the repair of the small intestine via restoring digestive and immune function through the dissolution of excess mucus build-up while helping to support Peyer's patches, sensitivity reactions and pathogen buildup and proliferation.

Okra and pepsin work in concert to help break down the excess, compromising mucus covering. Okra is a sticky, mucilaginous botanical capable of adhering to the built up mucus on the intestinal wall. This in turn may allow the proteolytic enzyme pepsin to contact and break down excess protein-based mucus.

Pre-digested white fish protein (Aminotides) helps to provide essential amino acids and poly-peptides to restore the mucosal lining, while beta 1,3-D glucan and colostrum h e l p nourish the immune cells of the Peyer’s patches.
31 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

Stef

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2015, 01:21:54 PM »
Hi All,

I have a question for those of you who struggle with photophobia. By "photophobia" I'm referring to eye sensitivity to sunlight and/or other types of bright light.

Assuming that you've all had your eyes checked by a physician, the question is very basic but I'll ask it anyway:  was pupillary reaction considered normal when the doc flashed the light in your eyes?

Opthomalogists will use a slit-lamp while general medicine doc's will use a pocket-light. Either way, the pupils should constrict and then dilate back to normal, equally and quickly. If the light is held, the constriction should remain until the light is removed. That constriction will feel uncomfortable if it's held for any length of time.

We've all had moments of light sensitivity, and can relate on a much lesser scale to the experience.  For example, when I worked the night shift in an ICU, we would all be squinting for a minute or so on exiting the hospital the following morning (despite indoor lights being on all night). Our eyes had to adjust, and then we were fine. But I very definitely understand that photophobia is entirely different in that the sensitivity continues and causes major discomfort.

I don't have any theories, but am wondering if pupil reaction is somehow involved here. (Actually, I think it's the iris reaction that leads to the pupil constricting and dilating to dark or bright light. Either way, the question is the same.)

Stef

G-man

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2015, 09:15:39 PM »
I just had an eye exam a couple weeks ago. The doc used a slit lamp to look inside my eye and said that everything looked great. He didn't say anything about pupil dilation, but I had a really hard time looking into the light. The doc looked at them for a couple minutes, and it became barely easier, if at all, to tolerate the light. I don't know what is responsible for the photophobia, if it has to do with the eye, sensory perception, or something else.
31 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

Quantum

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2015, 09:53:26 AM »
TLDR version :  I think POIS primary cause is immune, and can cause allergy-like and flu-like symptoms.  In addition to that, i believe that the pro-inflammatory immune messengers produced can cause neurological, cognitive and emotional symptoms.  Also, other conditions can worsen some or all of POIS symptoms.



Hi Labyrinth and everyone else,

In order to answer your poll question, that is "Do You think POIS is an immune disease or neurological illness", I would need another option in the poll to reflect my view:  for me, it is both immune and neurological, WITH a relation to each other.

Here is why I think POIS is both an immune and a neurological disorder,  that can also be worsen by other conditions as well. (note:  my hypothesis on the physiopathology is a bit complex, but isn't POIS a complex disorder ? )

I will use my clusters of symptoms to help explain my view, so those who wants a more detailed description of each clusters and a list of symptoms by clusters can go to http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2027.0 . Links are also given if you want to read more about certain key points.

Cluster 1, allergy-like symptoms, are clearly immunological in nature to me ( Type I hypersensitivity reaction , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_hypersensitivity )  Sneezing and itching, for example, are allergy symptoms.

Cluster 2,  Flu-like symptoms, are also of immunological symptoms in my hypothesis of POIS physiopathology ( Type IV hypersensitivity reaction, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_IV_hypersensitivity ).  Muscle aches and sore throat, for example, are of the same immune origin than in an actual flu.

Dr Waldinger has proposed in his papers, as a matter of fact, that POIS implied both a Type I and a Type IV hypersensitivity reaction, so I didn't come up with this by myself.

In these hypersensitivity reactions, a massive amount of pro-inflammatory immune messengers are produced, like cytokines, TNF-alpha, and so on, and this will produce other reactions in the body and brain.  That leads, in my view, to the two other clusters of symptoms.


Cluster 3, containing both cognitive symptoms / encephalopathy-like  symptoms and other, peripherical, pellagra-like symptoms, are of neurological origin, in my opinion.  However, in my hypothesis, those symptoms are a secondary effect of the hypersensitivity reaction mentioned above.  For example,  the pro-inflammatory messengers will produce inflammation in many part of the body, including in the brain. Inflammation in the brain is called "encephalitis".  POIS cognitive symptoms like brain fog, memory problems, speech impairment, lack of mental focus, as well as others, can all be symptoms of encephalitis ( see http://answers.webmd.com/answers/1173257/what-are-encephalitis-symptoms-and-signs ). Those symptoms are of neurological nature.  I think it is also clear that the majority of the peripheral symptoms of cluster 3, like muscle twitch, muscle weakness, tingling in the extremities, photophobia, are of neurological nature.

Cluster 4, emotional/psychological symptoms, are, to me, also caused by the effects of the pro-inflammatory immune messengers in the brain.  I have already talked a lot about this on the forum, and this aspect has also been studied and researched, as numerous papers have been published about the effect of immunological messengers as a cause of depression and anxiety.  To simplify the explanation, those immune messengers can upregulate certain enzymes - which means they will raise the degree of activity of certain key molecules in specific metabolic pathways.  The net results will be that the usual molecular activity of the brain will be changed, and some substances, like some neurotransmitters, will be less produced, and some other substances, like toxic products, will be produced in larger than normal quantities, all this causing imbalance and altered functioning of the brain. In all those papers, 2 enzymes are always referred to, the IDO and TDO enzymes, affecting the metabolic usage of tryptophan ( I have already written on the forum about that, in more details, like at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559 , so you can go there for a more complete explanation) These changes are of enough large scale to produce major changes in mood and personality.  The chemistry of the brain seems to be so affected in POIS acute phase that for a few days, depression, anxiety, mood instability and the like are full blown, and then slowly goes back to baseline, whatever your "normal" state is.  So, even if underlying cause is immunological ( cytokines and other immune messengers massive production), some end effects are clearly neurological, and some would say "mental" symptoms - I prefer to say emotional and psychological symptoms.   


To further clarify my position concerning cluster 3 and cluster 4 symptoms origin, I want to say that for me, ejaculation, not orgasm, is the trigger of the immune reaction. I believe that the neurological/brain imbalance in the brain in POIS has nothing to do with the neurotransmitters frenzy of orgasm itself, and has everything to do with ejaculation, has a trigger of the hypersensitivity reactions.  Those hypersensitivity reactions will not only produce allergy and flu-like symptoms, but also cause some specific changes in the body functioning at the metabolic level, leading to cognitive and emotional symptoms.  I have at least 2 arguments for this.  First, many POIS sufferers will get some POIS symptoms after a semen leak caused by a bowel movement, or also by pre-ejaculation emissions, as in edging.  You will agree that no O has occurred in those situations, but POIS did.  Also, you can have POIS even in the case of ejaculatory anhedonia, that means an ejaculation with no pleasure felt or anything happening in the brain during ejaculation - again, no O, but POIS symptoms. Also, POIS symptoms seems minimal in case of a "dry orgasm", that is, an O without ejaculation ( although in this last case, this is not a common occurrence, so data are few).

For those wondering about how all this would tie with the vagus nerve hypothesis, just remember that the vagus is a cranial nerve, taking input directly from the brain, and, the other way around, bringing inputs in the brain about the state of the body, in order to keep things stable.  If the brain has lost its balance, no wonder that the vagus nerve signals will be impaired and cause abnormal symptoms in the body.


Finally, by reading what all the members have shared over the years on this forum, I came up with a list of conditions and situation ( co-morbidity factors) that can worsen some or all of POIS symptoms:

- Inflammatory issues in the gut, which causes both a stronger/worst immune reaction, and also impair absorption of much needed substances for maintaining balance ( like tryptophan, for example).  So, as I understand it, any IBS, leaky gut syndrome, SIBO, name it, will worsen POIS.

- Methylation cycle issues and Nitric oxyde/peroxynitrite cycle issues:  having many MTHFR mutations, lower BH4, or anything related, can account for many if not the majority of POIS symptoms ( for example, see http://www.methyl-life.com/symptoms-of-mthfr.html ).  Some members, like Kurtosis, have achieved a very high level of control over their POIS symptoms by using supplementation that help restore normal balance in methylation and NO cycles, along with implementing healthy diet and other healthy habits ( you can read the interesting posts of Kurtosis about that, on this forum).  Many multi-symptoms disorders, similar to POIS, like CFS, ME, fibromyalgia, autism, and others, are suspected of being linked to methylation issues and NO cycle issues, too.

- Low testosterone or progesterone levels.  Those two hormones promote immune tolerance, so I think their lack will worsen the hypersensitivity reaction I see at the base of POIS.  Some members have achieved high level of control with testosterone  (Demografx ! ) or progesterone replacement therapy

- Atopy will worsen any dermatological issues ( Waldinger has noted in his first paper on POIS that the majority of POIS sufferers were also atopic).  More on atopy at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atopy

- Secondary, POIS-induced anxiety, depression and psychological problems.  After some years with POIS, having realized that one of the most pleasurable and gratifying experience as a human being has become the source of major debilitating symptoms that transform your life in a nightmare for a few days to a few weeks, this will cause, for the POIS sufferer, anxiety, depression and other psychological issues on its own, independant of any O and any POIS symptoms themselves.  So, when the metabolic effect of actual POIS kicks in, it is added to the chronic state of depression and anxiety that having this condition is causing to us. In clear, the added impairment on mood and anxiety, after ejaculation, piles up with what already remains as a constant level of anxiety and depression.  Obviously, any pre-existing conditions, independent of POIS, like anxiety, social problems, depression issues, will add up as well with what POIS causes on its own.

- Unhealthy diet:  speaks for itself.  Intakes of MSG, aspartame, preservative agents, and other chemicals do no good for a healthy balance.  HFGS, fructose, and the like either.  Gluten, milk protein, and other products can be bad too, if they trigger an immune response, adding to the POIS-induced immune reaction ( hypersensitivity reactions add one to another and pile up).  Other unhealthy habits, like a bad omega-3 to omega-6 ratio, will increase inflammation.  Many POISers have reported improvement when adopting a healthy diet

- Increased or low vagal tone:  if you already have an unsteady autonomic nervous system, POIS won't fix that...on the opposite, you will experiment worsened symptoms

I have listed other comorbidity factors as well, like weak hepatic function, low dopamine, stress/chronic high levels of cortisol, intake of statins or beta-blockers ( increasing muscle pain), and so on.  I will stop at that, I have mentioned the most frequent I have read about on the forum.

Sorry for this long post.  I came with that since last November, so it is hard to sum up many months of analysis in just a few lines.  If you are currently experimenting a brain fog, I have put a TLDR version at the beginning :-)

You are all welcomed to comment on my hypotheses.  I have no proof that this is correct, or not.  However, adding TDO inhibitors ( like quercetine and milk thistle) along with IDO inhibitors ( like rosmarinic acid and turmeric) to my POIS relief method has been highly beneficial for my emotional symptoms, and others as well.  Is it just plain luck, or is there anything true about my hypothesis?  I cannot tell for now.

Anyway, I hope my comments will be of help in resolving the POIS puzzle.

Quantum


« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 07:39:52 AM by Quantum »
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Quantum

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2015, 09:56:25 AM »
About the photophobia, it can have many cause.  Encephalitis can be one of this causes, and as I have shared, I think there is a kind of encephalitis caused by POIS, which I tie to cluster 3 symptoms...those symptoms are similar to what occurs in the niacin-deprived people experimenting pellagra symptoms.
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BluesBrother

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2015, 02:45:14 PM »
Amazing post!
Thanks so much for sharing your hypotheses and insights, Quantum.
Used to have brain fog, flue-like symptoms, un-refreshing sleep, extreme exhaustion, muscle and joint pain, digestive problems, social anxiety, urge to urinate frequently.
Used niacin in the past. Now using nanna1's maintenance stack. Exhaustion and brain fog now main problem. 3-day POIS cycle

Stef

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2015, 05:15:40 PM »
I just had an eye exam a couple weeks ago. The doc used a slit lamp to look inside my eye and said that everything looked great. He didn't say anything about pupil dilation, but I had a really hard time looking into the light. The doc looked at them for a couple minutes, and it became barely easier, if at all, to tolerate the light. I don't know what is responsible for the photophobia, if it has to do with the eye, sensory perception, or something else.

G-man,

What were your eye doctor's thoughts about the cause of your photophobia?

Stef


G-man

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Re: Allergy or neurological
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2015, 01:08:42 AM »
G-man,

What were your eye doctor's thoughts about the cause of your photophobia?

Stef

He didn't talk about possible causes, other than saying the physical health of my eyes were great.

I don't remember having a problem with photophobia until I developed HPPD after taking a large dose of LSD. I also had visual symptoms at this time along with the sensitivity to light. The visual symptoms were afterimages, trails, and static/snow vision. It's important to note that I had these symptoms before I took LSD, but doing so increased the intensity and severity of the symptoms to the point that it was incapacitating. The visual symptoms have mostly disappeared now, but other members of the forum report having the same visual symptoms.

If I were to guess I'd say that encephalitis is the cause, but that's just a wild guess.
31 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.