Author Topic: something for the depressed folk  (Read 8753 times)


Prancer

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2015, 09:17:49 PM »
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/04/depression-allergic-reaction-inflammation-immune-system

Interesting article mellivora, I like it. Also intriguing is how it says inflammation might be intimately related with things such as dopamine and the reward, or "feel good" area of the brain. It's never bad to hear about things that can potentially all tie together. The vagus nerve for example, apparently plays a big role in regulating the body's inflammatory response. Focusing on the vagus nerve might also tell us more about the role inflammation plays in causing our symptoms (and I think I've heard that here before too). Thanks for sharing that article. (You always find & share the good stuff!) - Prancer

Quantum

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2015, 09:27:19 PM »
Very interesting article, Mellivora, thanks for sharing.

I think that it is not relevant only for the depressed ones, but for anyone with POIS.  For those like me who believe that there is an immune over-reaction at the base of POIS, it is clear that an inflammation response is triggered and is part of the syndrome.  So, this "ill behavior" talked about in the article is present in POIS.
Anti-inflammatory substance like antioxidants, and as curcumin and omega-3, mentioned in the article, are effective for me against POIS symptoms.

Moreover, in my case, my most severe symptoms are all related to serotonin depletion - hypotension, mood swings, irritability, anxiety, social phobia, depressive moods, lack of self esteem, and so on.  It is quite obvious to me that those "acute" depressive states are "not just from my mind", as the article states.  I agree that I have some physiological particularities that make me vulnerable to those states, and that, even younger and way before any POIS, I had problems like anxiety, emotional instability, and the like.  But POIS have been badly worsening those symptoms, till I have found ways to relieve them.  Part of what I did is in this article as well, like avoiding pro-inflammatory food ( trans fat, fast sugars, ....) and following a anti-inflammatory diet, and using anti-oxydant supplements, including omega-3 and curcumin, among others. 

It is not surprising that POIS is often linked to depression, and this article helps in understanding that is is not only because one of the greatest source of pleasure in life becomes a source of illness.  This alone, for sure, is hard on our psychology.  But beyond that, I believe the over-reaction of the immune system contributes in developing emotional distress and dysphoria. 

I am still testing my methods of controlling my POIS symptoms.  I have just found the forum last November, and the info here had helped me a lot to improve my knowledge of POIS, and to refine my way of preventing and treating my symptoms.  I got some 100% POIS free O, lately, with consistency.  This article is totally in line with the hypotheses that lead me to develop a successful strategy.  Like I already said in another message, I will for sure share more on that when my results will have been constant and reliable for over a month.  Testing can now be done more often, since I went from one O a month (to avoid symptoms) to one O every 5 to 7 days.  At this rate, I will be soon able to consider my results as conclusive.



 

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demografx

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 10:40:02 PM »
Thanks, Mel!!!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

mellivora

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2015, 12:56:51 PM »


I think that it is not relevant only for the depressed ones, but for anyone with POIS. 

Agreed. Thanks for the thoughtful posts guys...

Colm

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2015, 09:30:29 AM »
Really great article Mellivora that gives a lot of hope.

As mentioned before, with six months of dietary / nutritional & supplement approaches (coincidentally in line with what this article and Quantum's approaches).

I am experiencing encouraging slow progress in my own chronic symptoms and do hope to report more on this, if the healing process seems to continue toward being anything like POIS free.

Colm
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 09:32:49 AM by Colm »

Quantum

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2015, 11:35:01 PM »


I think that it is not relevant only for the depressed ones, but for anyone with POIS. 

Agreed. Thanks for the thoughtful posts guys...


Hi, Mellivora. 

Thanks for your comment :)

Going a little further about the effect of inflammation in POIS, I have found many interesting scientific data suggesting that the inflammation response is not only responsible for what I call the first two clusters of symptoms ( allergy-like and flu-like symptoms), but also for the two other clusters of symptoms, the niacin/kynurenic acid cluster of symptoms (cognitive symptoms, memory problems, difficulties with problems solving, brain fog, slowed thought processing....) and the serotonin/quinolinic acid cluster of symptoms   (emotional symptoms like anxiety, depressive mood, fatigue, lack of motivation, mood swings, irritability, low self-esteem, intense emotional reactions, social phobia,....).  Those third and fourth clusters are both linked, in my hypotheses, to the effects of pro-inflammatory cytokines release (from the allergic/immune response at the core of POIS).  Those immune messengers have a direct effect on the metabolism of the much important tryptophan amino acid metabolism.  I am grateful that POIS sufferers benefit from ten of thousands of dollars of research that have been done in both cancer and depression, on the tryptophan metabolism, and on enzymes in the tryptomahn metabolic pathways as the IDO and TDO, because they are of interest in depression ( as illustrated by the article presented by Mellivora in this thread), and in cancer as well.

I was struck to realize that there was indeed two different enzymatic pathways in the kynurenine pathways that could explain those two different sets of symptoms, the cognitive and the emotional ones.  This dual pathway could explain why some individual present only one cluster and not the other, or present both at different levels of severity in any unique individual.  Each person has his personal metabolic specificities, based on their specific enzymatic levels of activities.  If one particular enzymatic pathway is more active or less active, some symptoms may or may not appear.  For example, in my own case, I have absolutely no cognitive symptoms (cluster 3), and have severe cluster 4, emotionnal symptoms.  My particular POIS "configuration" is not of the more current type, as the majority of POISers have some cognitive symptoms, like brain fog, memory problems, or mental focus problems.  My weakness is, like explain below, that my tryptophan is changed in quinolinic acid, and it seems that I do not produce much kynurenic acid.  Sounds mysterious?  Stay tuned...

I will try to explain clearly part of what I came to suspect as being part of the physiopathology of POIS.  I attached to this message a very, very interesting figure that you can dig if you are interested about what I have just briefly presented.  It is from a very interesting slides presentation that I really think you should take a look at :  http://fr.slideshare.net/adonissfera/tryptophan-and-madness .  It explains the effect of pro-inflammatory cytokines like IL-1, IL-6, TNF-alpha, interferon-gamma, and others on the brain chemistry, via the alteration of the tryptophan metabolism, in particular by pushing it toward the kynurenine pathway (KP).  What I have attached is slide no 17 of this serie.  It is a great summary of what happens, and i you study it carefully, you will find how an inappropriate immune reaction producing lots of pro-inflammatory cytokines (las POIS may be, as postulated by dr Waldinger) can cause cognitive deficit, as well as anxiety, depression and other emotional symptoms. 

Note that those two clusters come via a different enzymatic pathway - the KMO (kynurenine mono-oxygenase) enzyme leads to a higher concentration of quinolinic acid in the brain, showed as QUIN with an upside arrow, on the figure.  This part leads to emotional symptoms  ( high brain level of quinolinic acd are linked to depression, anxiety, and many psychiatric disorders - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolinic_acid#Psychiatric_disorders ). That is the path I suspect is the most present in my personal POIS acute phase.

The other pathway, via the KAT enzyme (kynurenine amino transferase), leads to higher kynurenic acid concentration in the body, which lead to impaired memory and cognitive faculties (yes, including brain fog!) ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynurenic_acid#Role_in_disease and http://phys.org/news199944356.html for more info about KYNA effects on cognition )  I personnally do not have a problem in this pathway, which seems stable for a reason I do not know yet,  but many POISers do have increased production of kynurenic acid in their brain in POIS acute phase, I think.

Moreover, you will note in this figure that the overuse of tryptophan ( symbol = Trp) leads as well to less serotonin (symbol = 5-HT, upper right of the figure), which also contributes to emotional symptoms.  This figure could have had also the same lowering mentionned for niacin, which is also made from Trp.  Interesting, isn't it?  Less niacin leads to more cognitive impairments - just take a look at the symptoms of pellagra, caused by a lack of niacin - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellagra

The first two enzymes that are on the left of the figure, IDO and TDO, are those that are highly over-activated after O (according to what I understand), and are responsible for the massive transformation of Trp into kynurenine (symbol KYN), everywhere in the body.  This KYN enters the brain, and there is tranformed either by the KMO or the KAT enzyme, depending of your own metabolic "personality".   

As could be predicted from this figure,  taking one hour pre-O substances that blocks IDO and TDO will prevent both the cognitive and emotional symptoms, by preventing the massive production of kynurenine from tryptophan.  It is then a matter of finding the right combination of different substances at the right dosage, because some very simple substances acts as inhibitors for those enzymes ( like curcumin, polyphenols sources and other antioxidants, and some others).  I have pretty much found the combination of substances that works for me.  After a month, quite sure now that it has nothing to do with placebo effect.   More about that soon.

In addition to the attached file, you can also take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynurenine_pathway , a good starter to get used to all these enzymes name and pathways.  Believe me, you may get to know all  these names!  When something matters to you, motivation to understand comes easily.

« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 11:55:47 PM by Quantum »
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mellivora

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2015, 04:19:28 PM »
Quantum, I haven't had chance to dissect and process your post in detail (it may take some time (!) and I am going away for a couple of weeks tomorrow). However, it looks like a great effort to tie everything together and, on the face of it, the slideshow appears to be a useful reference for us. Thanks for taking time to put up these posts...I hope to be able to check the forum a little whilst I'm away.

 I feel like my visits here have been especially worthwhile lately, thanks everyone.

Quantum

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2015, 11:37:04 PM »
Quantum, I haven't had chance to dissect and process your post in detail (it may take some time (!) and I am going away for a couple of weeks tomorrow). However, it looks like a great effort to tie everything together and, on the face of it, the slideshow appears to be a useful reference for us. Thanks for taking time to put up these posts...I hope to be able to check the forum a little whilst I'm away.

 I feel like my visits here have been especially worthwhile lately, thanks everyone.

Hi Mellivora,

Thanks for your interest in what I have posted.  I have been working on that for several weeks, so I 100% agree that it takes some time to become familiar with all those enzymes name and metabolic pathways, and to finally get a clear picture of what they mean in term of the symptoms of POIS. 

For years, I have been having a passion for human physiology, so I have put countless hours of research on POIS, since I have found this forum, in last November.  I am aware that not everybody share my passion for physiology, and pathways, and immunology.  All this may seems like too much of a puzzle, with all this jungle of long names and pathways.  For those who a are not really interested in that more scientific and academic stuff, I will come up soon with a more complete synthesis, including more details about what actually helped me and with practical suggestions, which may be more interesting to some than names like "indolamine 2,3-dioxygenase" .  However, I would be more than happy if some members, like you, Mellivora, show a real interest in discussing about the physiological bases that helped me come up with a good control over my POIS symptoms.

I am looking forward to discuss with you and anyone else interested about those hypotheses I have shared.  If you, or anyone else, have any question about any part of what I have posted, I will be happy to try and answer as clearly as possible.  I have studied in the health field, and it helped me for sure to dig into those web pages and scientific articles. I know it is not easy for anyone not familiar with physiology and biochemistry, and with all the specific vocabulary used in those articles.  So, take your time in studying those physiological pathways and their consequences in term of POIS symptoms.

In the meantime, have a safe trip, Mellivora :)
 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 11:44:23 PM by Quantum »
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sameer7777

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2015, 08:05:52 AM »
guys realy need help , should i try curmin or omega 3 supplements ..... curmin is available in kitchen , so pls guide .......
pls don't expose me.
AFTER SEX/MASTERBATION (FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS)
1)BACK NECK PAIN GOES TO DOWN SPINE
2)NERVES LIKE SQUEEZED OUT
3)MORNING FEET NERVES PAIN
4)NASAL INFLAMMATION
5)BRAIN FOG
6)DEPRESSION
7)HIGH SUGAR LEVELS (TRIED INSULIN FOR 1 YEAR MAKE ME MORE SICK

Nightingale

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2015, 03:19:49 PM »
guys realy need help , should i try curmin or omega 3 supplements ..... curmin is available in kitchen , so pls guide .......

Tell us a little more about what's wrong, Sameer

What is going on?
Turmeric and Rosemary 30-45 minutes before orgasm for anti-inflammatory and immune support has helped me a lot. Faster and easier than niacin approach.

Nas

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2016, 08:40:39 AM »


I think that it is not relevant only for the depressed ones, but for anyone with POIS. 

Agreed. Thanks for the thoughtful posts guys...


Hi, Mellivora. 

Thanks for your comment :)

Going a little further about the effect of inflammation in POIS, I have found many interesting scientific data suggesting that the inflammation response is not only responsible for what I call the first two clusters of symptoms ( allergy-like and flu-like symptoms), but also for the two other clusters of symptoms, the niacin/kynurenic acid cluster of symptoms (cognitive symptoms, memory problems, difficulties with problems solving, brain fog, slowed thought processing....) and the serotonin/quinolinic acid cluster of symptoms   (emotional symptoms like anxiety, depressive mood, fatigue, lack of motivation, mood swings, irritability, low self-esteem, intense emotional reactions, social phobia,....).  Those third and fourth clusters are both linked, in my hypotheses, to the effects of pro-inflammatory cytokines release (from the allergic/immune response at the core of POIS).  Those immune messengers have a direct effect on the metabolism of the much important tryptophan amino acid metabolism.  I am grateful that POIS sufferers benefit from ten of thousands of dollars of research that have been done in both cancer and depression, on the tryptophan metabolism, and on enzymes in the tryptomahn metabolic pathways as the IDO and TDO, because they are of interest in depression ( as illustrated by the article presented by Mellivora in this thread), and in cancer as well.

I was struck to realize that there was indeed two different enzymatic pathways in the kynurenine pathways that could explain those two different sets of symptoms, the cognitive and the emotional ones.  This dual pathway could explain why some individual present only one cluster and not the other, or present both at different levels of severity in any unique individual.  Each person has his personal metabolic specificities, based on their specific enzymatic levels of activities.  If one particular enzymatic pathway is more active or less active, some symptoms may or may not appear.  For example, in my own case, I have absolutely no cognitive symptoms (cluster 3), and have severe cluster 4, emotionnal symptoms.  My particular POIS "configuration" is not of the more current type, as the majority of POISers have some cognitive symptoms, like brain fog, memory problems, or mental focus problems.  My weakness is, like explain below, that my tryptophan is changed in quinolinic acid, and it seems that I do not produce much kynurenic acid.  Sounds mysterious?  Stay tuned...

I will try to explain clearly part of what I came to suspect as being part of the physiopathology of POIS.  I attached to this message a very, very interesting figure that you can dig if you are interested about what I have just briefly presented.  It is from a very interesting slides presentation that I really think you should take a look at :  http://fr.slideshare.net/adonissfera/tryptophan-and-madness .  It explains the effect of pro-inflammatory cytokines like IL-1, IL-6, TNF-alpha, interferon-gamma, and others on the brain chemistry, via the alteration of the tryptophan metabolism, in particular by pushing it toward the kynurenine pathway (KP).  What I have attached is slide no 17 of this serie.  It is a great summary of what happens, and i you study it carefully, you will find how an inappropriate immune reaction producing lots of pro-inflammatory cytokines (las POIS may be, as postulated by dr Waldinger) can cause cognitive deficit, as well as anxiety, depression and other emotional symptoms. 

Note that those two clusters come via a different enzymatic pathway - the KMO (kynurenine mono-oxygenase) enzyme leads to a higher concentration of quinolinic acid in the brain, showed as QUIN with an upside arrow, on the figure.  This part leads to emotional symptoms  ( high brain level of quinolinic acd are linked to depression, anxiety, and many psychiatric disorders - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolinic_acid#Psychiatric_disorders ). That is the path I suspect is the most present in my personal POIS acute phase.

The other pathway, via the KAT enzyme (kynurenine amino transferase), leads to higher kynurenic acid concentration in the body, which lead to impaired memory and cognitive faculties (yes, including brain fog!) ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynurenic_acid#Role_in_disease and http://phys.org/news199944356.html for more info about KYNA effects on cognition )  I personnally do not have a problem in this pathway, which seems stable for a reason I do not know yet,  but many POISers do have increased production of kynurenic acid in their brain in POIS acute phase, I think.

Moreover, you will note in this figure that the overuse of tryptophan ( symbol = Trp) leads as well to less serotonin (symbol = 5-HT, upper right of the figure), which also contributes to emotional symptoms.  This figure could have had also the same lowering mentionned for niacin, which is also made from Trp.  Interesting, isn't it?  Less niacin leads to more cognitive impairments - just take a look at the symptoms of pellagra, caused by a lack of niacin - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellagra

The first two enzymes that are on the left of the figure, IDO and TDO, are those that are highly over-activated after O (according to what I understand), and are responsible for the massive transformation of Trp into kynurenine (symbol KYN), everywhere in the body.  This KYN enters the brain, and there is tranformed either by the KMO or the KAT enzyme, depending of your own metabolic "personality".   

As could be predicted from this figure,  taking one hour pre-O substances that blocks IDO and TDO will prevent both the cognitive and emotional symptoms, by preventing the massive production of kynurenine from tryptophan.  It is then a matter of finding the right combination of different substances at the right dosage, because some very simple substances acts as inhibitors for those enzymes ( like curcumin, polyphenols sources and other antioxidants, and some others).  I have pretty much found the combination of substances that works for me.  After a month, quite sure now that it has nothing to do with placebo effect.   More about that soon.

In addition to the attached file, you can also take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynurenine_pathway , a good starter to get used to all these enzymes name and pathways.  Believe me, you may get to know all  these names!  When something matters to you, motivation to understand comes easily.

Cool, and I think the placebo effect is kinda overrated. It lasts probably for an hour until you start sensing the cognitive inabilities.

Quantum

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2016, 08:22:55 PM »


I think that it is not relevant only for the depressed ones, but for anyone with POIS. 

Agreed. Thanks for the thoughtful posts guys...


Hi, Mellivora. 

Thanks for your comment :)

Going a little further about the effect of inflammation in POIS, I have found many interesting scientific data suggesting that the inflammation response is not only responsible for what I call the first two clusters of symptoms ( allergy-like and flu-like symptoms), but also for the two other clusters of symptoms, the niacin/kynurenic acid cluster of symptoms (cognitive symptoms, memory problems, difficulties with problems solving, brain fog, slowed thought processing....) and the serotonin/quinolinic acid cluster of symptoms   (emotional symptoms like anxiety, depressive mood, fatigue, lack of motivation, mood swings, irritability, low self-esteem, intense emotional reactions, social phobia,....).  Those third and fourth clusters are both linked, in my hypotheses, to the effects of pro-inflammatory cytokines release (from the allergic/immune response at the core of POIS).  Those immune messengers have a direct effect on the metabolism of the much important tryptophan amino acid metabolism.  I am grateful that POIS sufferers benefit from ten of thousands of dollars of research that have been done in both cancer and depression, on the tryptophan metabolism, and on enzymes in the tryptomahn metabolic pathways as the IDO and TDO, because they are of interest in depression ( as illustrated by the article presented by Mellivora in this thread), and in cancer as well.

I was struck to realize that there was indeed two different enzymatic pathways in the kynurenine pathways that could explain those two different sets of symptoms, the cognitive and the emotional ones.  This dual pathway could explain why some individual present only one cluster and not the other, or present both at different levels of severity in any unique individual.  Each person has his personal metabolic specificities, based on their specific enzymatic levels of activities.  If one particular enzymatic pathway is more active or less active, some symptoms may or may not appear.  For example, in my own case, I have absolutely no cognitive symptoms (cluster 3), and have severe cluster 4, emotionnal symptoms.  My particular POIS "configuration" is not of the more current type, as the majority of POISers have some cognitive symptoms, like brain fog, memory problems, or mental focus problems.  My weakness is, like explain below, that my tryptophan is changed in quinolinic acid, and it seems that I do not produce much kynurenic acid.  Sounds mysterious?  Stay tuned...

I will try to explain clearly part of what I came to suspect as being part of the physiopathology of POIS.  I attached to this message a very, very interesting figure that you can dig if you are interested about what I have just briefly presented.  It is from a very interesting slides presentation that I really think you should take a look at :  http://fr.slideshare.net/adonissfera/tryptophan-and-madness .  It explains the effect of pro-inflammatory cytokines like IL-1, IL-6, TNF-alpha, interferon-gamma, and others on the brain chemistry, via the alteration of the tryptophan metabolism, in particular by pushing it toward the kynurenine pathway (KP).  What I have attached is slide no 17 of this serie.  It is a great summary of what happens, and i you study it carefully, you will find how an inappropriate immune reaction producing lots of pro-inflammatory cytokines (las POIS may be, as postulated by dr Waldinger) can cause cognitive deficit, as well as anxiety, depression and other emotional symptoms. 

Note that those two clusters come via a different enzymatic pathway - the KMO (kynurenine mono-oxygenase) enzyme leads to a higher concentration of quinolinic acid in the brain, showed as QUIN with an upside arrow, on the figure.  This part leads to emotional symptoms  ( high brain level of quinolinic acd are linked to depression, anxiety, and many psychiatric disorders - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolinic_acid#Psychiatric_disorders ). That is the path I suspect is the most present in my personal POIS acute phase.

The other pathway, via the KAT enzyme (kynurenine amino transferase), leads to higher kynurenic acid concentration in the body, which lead to impaired memory and cognitive faculties (yes, including brain fog!) ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynurenic_acid#Role_in_disease and http://phys.org/news199944356.html for more info about KYNA effects on cognition )  I personnally do not have a problem in this pathway, which seems stable for a reason I do not know yet,  but many POISers do have increased production of kynurenic acid in their brain in POIS acute phase, I think.

Moreover, you will note in this figure that the overuse of tryptophan ( symbol = Trp) leads as well to less serotonin (symbol = 5-HT, upper right of the figure), which also contributes to emotional symptoms.  This figure could have had also the same lowering mentionned for niacin, which is also made from Trp.  Interesting, isn't it?  Less niacin leads to more cognitive impairments - just take a look at the symptoms of pellagra, caused by a lack of niacin - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellagra

The first two enzymes that are on the left of the figure, IDO and TDO, are those that are highly over-activated after O (according to what I understand), and are responsible for the massive transformation of Trp into kynurenine (symbol KYN), everywhere in the body.  This KYN enters the brain, and there is tranformed either by the KMO or the KAT enzyme, depending of your own metabolic "personality".   

As could be predicted from this figure,  taking one hour pre-O substances that blocks IDO and TDO will prevent both the cognitive and emotional symptoms, by preventing the massive production of kynurenine from tryptophan.  It is then a matter of finding the right combination of different substances at the right dosage, because some very simple substances acts as inhibitors for those enzymes ( like curcumin, polyphenols sources and other antioxidants, and some others).  I have pretty much found the combination of substances that works for me.  After a month, quite sure now that it has nothing to do with placebo effect.   More about that soon.

In addition to the attached file, you can also take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynurenine_pathway , a good starter to get used to all these enzymes name and pathways.  Believe me, you may get to know all  these names!  When something matters to you, motivation to understand comes easily.

Cool, and I think the placebo effect is kinda overrated. It lasts probably for an hour until you start sensing the cognitive inabilities.

Hi Nas,

I wrote this message in January 2015, and my pre-pack is still working for me, so let's say that after 16 months of 80% to 100% relief,  the placebo effect has long been eliminated as a possibility...  ;)   My pre-pack really is effective for me, and it is not a psychological effect.

And, I am still thinking there is at least some truth in those metabolic pathways I point to in this message, as being responsible for the inflammation caused by POIS symptoms.  But, I do not have a bioresearch lab in my basement, and do not have tens of thousands of dollars to invest in order to test my hypothesis, so they still are hypothesis.  However, the pre-pack of supplements I have designed according to my hypothesis do bring me relief of my POIS symptoms ( the one described at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604 )

You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Nas

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Re: something for the depressed folk
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2016, 09:36:17 AM »


Hi Nas,

I wrote this message in January 2015, and my pre-pack is still working for me, so let's say that after 16 months of 80% to 100% relief,  the placebo effect has long been eliminated as a possibility...  ;)   My pre-pack really is effective for me, and it is not a psychological effect.

And, I am still thinking there is at least some truth in those metabolic pathways I point to in this message, as being responsible for the inflammation caused by POIS symptoms.  But, I do not have a bioresearch lab in my basement, and do not have tens of thousands of dollars to invest in order to test my hypothesis, so they still are hypothesis.  However, the pre-pack of supplements I have designed according to my hypothesis do bring me relief of my POIS symptoms ( the one described at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604 )
[/quote]

Hi, Quantum.
I know and hearing that it still works is awesome and it is a big proof that your theory (yes theory, your reaserch is more than "hypothesis") is true. I've been digging deep into your forums and all I can say that is is full of scientific data and it is the most logical explanation I've ever read.
I've read your message and I might open a forum where I ask you even more questions so other people can benifit.